Pre-trib Rapture only, anything else incriminates God

[Bill]

Very good questions, thanks Bill. I love interrogating a belief with logic.

I believe that all children and mentally handicapped will also be raptured. They will be tested in the millennium.

As for my friends and such, God is a righteous judge Job 34:12 that can judge depths of intent of heart and mind Jer 17:9-11. If He decides to not rapture someone it is because they have not yet passed a test of heart and mind for sincere repentance of sin.

We need to understand that the tribulation period is a necessary period as anyone who rejects Jesus is an individual that will require a tribulation level filtering process to come right with God.

Many Christians need to grasp that God is looking for depth of intent heart over works. You can sit in church every Sunday for 100 years and still be far from God. Still not love God.

I mean for arguments sake, look at how so many Christians do not see a problem in misrepresenting God as evil and unjust. It's like they just don't know Him or grasp what really matters.

What of the Two Witnesses, we will not be Raptured. Does this mean we are not worthy? And what of those God choses to remain behind, to preach to the rest of the world?

 

[Brad Huber]

Are you God... to say what is evil and what isnt as far as God's allowing evil and hard times to occur?

 

[KingJ]

What of the Two Witnesses, we will not be Raptured. Does this mean we are not worthy? And what of those God choses to remain behind, to preach to the rest of the world?

God does not choose for any to remain behind. Two witnesses are sent to preach.

 

[KingJ]

Are you God... to say what is evil and what isnt as far as God's allowing evil and hard times to occur?

Do I have to be God to grasp what is good and evil?

 

[KingJ]

I was thinking, I should have added the following fact into my OP.

If there is no pre-trib rapture event, but only a second coming after a seven year tribulation, how do you explain the below verse?

Matt 24:40-41 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Scripture is crystal clear that at the second coming of Jesus, every knee will bow. Not, one person will be taken and the other left behind.

Phil 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

There should be absolutely no doubt that scripture is referencing two separate events.

 

[B-A-C]

Do I have to be God to grasp what is good and evil?

actually.. yes.

att 24:40-41 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Why does this ave to be "pre" trib. Why is there anything in this verse that says "pre"?

Matt 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Mark 13:24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,
Mark 13:25 AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.
Mark 13:26 "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27 "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

This is the only time anyone will be taken up. "after" the trib.
2Thes 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2Thes 2:2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Thes 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Thes 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

No one is gathered together with Jesus until after this happens.

 

[farmerjoe]

The purpose of the sheep and goats judgment is to determine who does and who does not enter the Millennium. That's not the so called 'rapture'.

 

[B-A-C]

'rapture'.

All the word "rapture" means.. is gather up of gather together... a number of verses in post #66, mention "agther together" and "gather up". The timing is debateable, the "gather up" is not. The Bible says it will happen.

 

[farmerjoe]

All the word "rapture" means.. is gather up of gather together... a number of verses in post #66, mention "agther together" and "gather up". The timing is debateable, the "gather up" is not. The Bible says it will happen.

• Theological Definition: Derived from the Latin rapturo (and Greek harpazo), meaning "to be caught up" or "snatched away". It refers to the belief that believers will be taken to heaven, as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:17
  .
  
  • Etymology: Originated from Latin rapere, meaning "to seize or snatch".

to seize and carry off speedily, John 6:15; Acts 23:10; used of divine power transferring a person marvellously and swiftly from one place to another, to snatch or catch away:

Timing is not debatable. Jesus said it occurs at the end of tribulation. Not before, not in the middle. AT THE END!

 

[Dave M]

the bible says Jesus only comes back one time after his resurrection, in order to believe in a pre trib rapture you have to believe that Jesus comes back two times. That is not what the bible teaches.

Of course the objections will come,, that say when Jesus comes for the rapture (pre trib) that he does not touch the ground,, he is in the air. First off that is so lame, to consider he is in the clouds yet it does not count for his return. His second coming, he is in the clouds also.

Another lame excuse I hear is, that God will not pour out his wrath on his children YES I agree, but wear this excuses becomes lame is all the examples in the bible and we have several the flood, pass over, lot, God pours out his wrath, yet is able to protect his children. SO if a person claims God will pre trib rapture because tribulation is not for his children his children are not appointed wrath, well that means you do not think God can protect his children, which I find hard to believe that anyone who believes in God would believe such a thing.

And then of course we have the made up name that came from men, that so many cling to the tribulation saints !! no wear in the bible is there such a name.

Then of we have the great revival we hear about so many claiming that happens in the tribulation, but I can show you at least two versus that says no one NO ONE repents, no one can show one verse of revival. I know about the speculation that people make up about the people that came out of tribulation and are standing in front of the thrown in heaven,,, and people love to point to that for some reason and claim they came to Christ during the tribulation, YET it does not say when they came to Christ all it says is they came out of the tribulation, so it could be they were already believers.

No I do not believe in the pre trib,,, I do believe in the rapture at the end of the age, when Jesus returns to gather is saints in the clouds just the like the bible says !!

But I certainly will not accuse evil of God one way or another, that is dumbest thing I have ever seen on any Christian forum and exposes the pride of anyone who would say such a foolish thing. I pray for that person revelation from Christ on the manor