Would be interested to see your references for this statement, do states that have the death penalty have lower incidences of Murder and violent crime than states that done have the death penalty, let me see your references and i'll have a look. And how far would you go with this "deterrent effect", what about graphic torture , are there limits on your "deterrents".
If it doesn’t reduce it, then what kind of people are you suggesting are unaffected? Not just wrongdoers, but also psychopaths or sociopaths. It’s like a believer or ministry avoiding discussions on sin just to spare someone’s feelings. You can always push things to extremes, which is what seems to be what you are implying here which is not the case. So, the extremes are out for you, as they are for me, but are you suggesting it’s better to have no deterrent at all and let human nature run its course? I hope that’s not the case either!
I do not think CK was gleeful, in this discussion. You watch enough of his interviews/clips and for better or worse you will see that is his persona. That he was a matter of fact, in certain instances, is without a doubt true, yet how can one talk about the horrors of actions being spoken of and not protect yourself from succumbing psychologically from the evil being spoken of. So, CK being gleeful, I disagree with.
CK literally says at one point" I'd love to see that execution, it would really make my day", sounds pretty "gleeful" to me, and i expose myself to the horrors of this world every day, have done for the last 40 years or so, and it is "psychologically destroying", but if you have Gods love in your heart thats what its gonna do, its all part of being a disciple of Christ, of losing your Mind, body and Soul in the service of Love and compassion.
I get the impression that anything to do with CK is wrong! So, going back to OT, was God wrong in what He asked to be done with Amalekites, which was to destroy them all? I wonder if you're aware of what future book you'd not be reading about if they had done as He had directed them to do! Here is an interesting verse for you to digest:
If I have done something worthy of death, I don't refuse to die. But if I am innocent, no one has a right to turn me over to these men to kill me. I appeal to Caesar!" Acts 25:11 NLT
With the thoughts you have put forward above, are you then a Universalists? That can be the only explanation for your belief, because NT abounds with accountability, for the sinner to include destruction.
Kill pedophiles? His position is yes, because of the life being destroyed, and in truth if I was on a jury and the option were available as a punishment, I'd have a tough time in aggravated/12 yrs of age being the case which is what the Idaho law is saying, I'd have a tough time in not saying no. Does this mean I am no longer a Christian? I do believe I've answered this in my other post to you on the Death Penalty. If the law of the land allows for, then you have right to implement the punishment.
So you consider yourself so free of Sin that you feel able to "cast the first stone", if the law of the land allows it you'd do it, but what if the law of the land allowed for judicial torture, judicial castration before execution, would that be OK for you?.
So, are you saying it's okay to forgo one sin so that another may be committed?
Again, Romans 13:4. As I've addressed you are in a country that has decided to not have the death penalty, while I live in a country that does. So, it's okay for you since you are not faced with the decision, but you are asking me to go against the very government here and so the dictates of God?
Is there no middle ground with you? I ask because apparently there is none, because you seem to default to "what if" scenarios.
What did Jesus mean when he said the following and do you believe that the acts of a pedophile on a child does not move that child to sin in their lives? "It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around your neck than to cause one of these little ones to fall into sin." Luke 17:2 What CK was saying is that the act destroys the life of the child and should be punished accordingly. Agree or disagree, if the law of the land allows for it to be the punishment, then as a citizen you make your position clear before serving on a jury and you will be excused if you disagree with the punishment or accepted if you can.
I agree that destroying the life of a child, or destroying the life of anyone needs the perpetrator to be taken out of society, both for the protection of others and for the protection of themselves and hopefully to understand why they committed the act they did and correcting their behaviour, but we must always remember that we are sinners passing judgement on other sinners and cannot cast the stone that leads to their death, however heinous their crime
And talking of heinous crimes, what of the President that cuts overseas aid and destroys the lives of millions and forces thousands of children to sell themselves or commit other sins just in order to survive, if you believe those crimes worthy of death, will you also be calling for the execution of President Trump?
At least you agree something should be done, but where did you find it in scripture that they should be removed from society so as to protect others/themselves? Much less to get understanding to correct their behavior by doing so?
You like to mention about "passing judgment" as if it is not allowed. I do believe that does not take into account, that the judgment of the believer, exists and needs to be done, but done righteously! You speak as if it is not allowed at all which is not true!
You're talking about Trump and USAID being cut! Again, involving yourself in politics/policies that are not of your own country! Since you can be open minded (I want to believe this.), which policies that were cut should have been cut and which ones should not have been? I want to see you looking at the problem both ways.
Plus, what dictates that the US is supposed to take care of the rest of the world? Oh, and if that happened and Trump should be executed for cutting excesses then what about the countries whose leaders that do nothing? How about the UK, why don't they pick up the slack and do it themselves? Why not go into debt like the US has to the tune of trillions of dollars, to help others? Come on, be honest, you do believe that the US has this responsibility, but not other countries, who do little to nothing! The sword can cut both ways. Let's kill all the leaders who do nothing is that what you are saying, or do nothing either way? (Heavy sigh)
I guess you can sum up CK's position on the death penalty as being OT, or the eye for an eye. Which is valid. I do believe he could have fleshed out the NT position a bit more, but I guess he won't be able to do so.
Not according to Christ it isnt, Matthew 5 vs 38-39 " “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.", you said i took this out of context so tell me what you believe the context is, i read it as a call for mercy and a rejection of the notion of "payback", but give me your thoughts and i'll consider them
On the wider issue of thoughts and replying, i cant conduct a conversation with 4 or 5 different people at the same time, its too time consuming and doesnt give me the time to give each reply the consideration they deserve, so be patient, i will get back to you all.
So, you believe that Christians should rule the world, and impose their beliefs on all peoples regardless of what they believe in?
Until the Lord returns, that's not going to happen, and even when He returns, you know that is when the real of wars of wars will happen, right?
I'm patient and will await your response. I just won't preoccupy myself, with wondering how you'll reply to what I have posted. lol (smile)
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><
