Christ's Finished Atonement or Christ's Failure Atonement

[Kermos]

No. no, no. No free will = partiality. This line by you is as bad as 1 + 1 = 3.

This really is a 'duh' fact my friend,

Your empty explanation is null and void because you believe that God, the Righteous Judge, gives credence to man free-will choosing God, which is, by definition, God being partial to whatever man; furthermore, your Free-willian Philosophy leads to Christ's failure atonement as outlined in the original post.

You believe God trusts your free-will choice, yet it is written "Behold, His servants, He does not trust" (Job 4:18).

I believe that God, the Righteous Judge (Psalm 7:11), gives credence to Lord Jesus, the One Mediator (1 Timothy 2:5), which is, by definition, God being impartial to man; furthermore, I believe in Christ's finished atonement as outlined in the original post.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Christ4Ever,

The Word of God says Almighty God is the exclusive Chooser of man unto salvation (please see post #25).



Lord Jesus is the Master Orator! The simplicity and sophistication of His sayings are awesome.

Not only does He speak with authority, but he uses understandable vocabulary.

Christ is speaks in simple terms, here, He says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation).



Yes, as an Apostle. Judas Iscariot departed prior to Jesus speaking as recorded in John 15:16 and John 15:19, so Judas was not included in the blessing of God's choosing unto salvation.



When we look at God's handiwork as recorded in Romans 9:18-23, then we find the Potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use which signifies God's Sovereign control over people (please see post #18 for crucial detail).



Did you know the word "choose" and it's conjugates are absent from the creation account recorded in Genesis chapters 1-5? Even the Hebrew word בָּחר (Strong's 977 - bachar - choose and it's conjugates) is absent.



Are you conveying that Christ atoned for everyone everywhere in all time?



Elect functions as an adjective or noun, and elect is synonymous with choice and chosen. Please see Strong's Greek: 1588. ἐκλεκτός (eklektos) -- Chosen, elect.

The King of Glory says the choice is exclusively His choice as to who receives salvation.



Christ expresses the simplicity in
"Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death" (John 8:51) and "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments" (John 14:15).

Love,
Kermos

I'm a simple man, so I pose to you a simple question.

Do you believe that God has preprogrammed which of humanity are to be saved and which ones are not to be?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Kermos]

Dude your like a bot I'm wondering if ya can even hold a conversation at this point talking to you is like talking to a machine n welp I'm not interested into talking to the dead .

Let me know if ya decide ya can hold a convo instead of acting like a programmed bot .

When one can't answer in their own words I then know they are being taught by man.. it's called programming I believe..

¯⁠\⁠_⁠ʘ⁠‿⁠ʘ⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Dear Twistie,

Insults and the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9), these are the things you shoot at me without any Word of God, AGAIN.

You just ignore:

Salvation from the wrath of God is a blessing of God! But, you are so very focused on your own self-proclaimed deeds.

You are right back to being the "you" in Romans 9:19-20 as the person who rejects God by way of rejecting God's Sovereign control of man's salvation:

18 He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the Potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory
(Romans 9:18-23)
​

Believe Jesus who says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation).
​

You say "When one can't answer in their own words I then know they are being taught by man.. it's called programming I believe", but the Holy Spirit reveals to me “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21).

Love,
Kermos

 

[Kermos]

Welp I'm glad you know how I walk you must be able to see me daily ways good thing I am forced to do all I do n need to take no responsibility since Christ died for all to be forced to claim to love a god that's not powerful enough to keep order in His kingdom..

Lol let me know when you learn to converse

Smh lol

Most of Those who claim the title Christians are some funny creatures boy lol

¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ ͡⁠°⁠ ͜⁠ʖ⁠ ͡⁠°⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Dear Twistie,

Your foundation is shifting sand for your post is devoid of the Word of God, again. Man's free-will is sloshy shifting sand.

"Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall" (Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew 7:24-27).

My solid Rock foundation is “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Believe Christ!

Love,
Kermos

 

[Twistie]

Dear Twistie,

Your foundation is shifting sand for your post is devoid of the Word of God, again. Man's free-will is sloshy shifting sand.

"Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall" (Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew 7:24-27).

My solid Rock foundation is “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Believe Christ!

Love,
Kermos

Can you converse now?
So let's try again did I have a choice in murdering did I have a choice in Robbing the travel agency? Did I have a choice in Robbing the gas station? Or robbing the seven eleven I mean I didn't have any human holding a gun to my head telling me to do it but if ya saying the Creator don't give us a choice well then I guess I would need no forgiveness right? Cause no choice I don't have the free will to choose shall I do evil today or shall I learn to do good cause like you say we have no free will we have no choice..

I know what is written n ya r well at picking verses to choose your case but that's what all these temples do correct?. They pick the candy verses to lure the blind in deaf into their temple to rob them..

See if ya believe the Creator will force His creation to Love Him then I can truly say we have nothing to converse about because you worship a different god than I..

╮⁠(⁠.⁠ ⁠❛⁠ ⁠ᴗ⁠ ⁠❛⁠.⁠)⁠╭

 

[Kermos]

I'm a simple man, so I pose to you a simple question.

Do you believe that God has preprogrammed which of humanity are to be saved and which ones are not to be?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Dear Christ4Ever,

I believe the Potter, Holy God, forms man into vessels of mercy or vessels of wrath according to God's will as recorded in:

18 He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the Potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory
(Romans 9:18-23)
​

So, man's "free-will" has nothing to do with any movement toward salvation, whatsoever.

So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy (Romans 9:16).

I would not use the term preprogrammed because that sounds like "set it and forget it".

I believe God is very active in the lives and hearts and wills of His creatures:

"it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure"
(Philippians 2:13 (NASB1995)).
​

Love,
Kermos

 

[Kermos]

Can you converse now?
So let's try again did I have a choice in murdering did I have a choice in Robbing the travel agency? Did I have a choice in Robbing the gas station? Or robbing the seven eleven I mean I didn't have any human holding a gun to my head telling me to do it but if ya saying the Creator don't give us a choice well then I guess I would need no forgiveness right? Cause no choice I don't have the free will to choose shall I do evil today or shall I learn to do good cause like you say we have no free will we have no choice..

I know what is written n ya r well at picking verses to choose your case but that's what all these temples do correct?. They pick the candy verses to lure the blind in deaf into their temple to rob them..

See if ya believe the Creator will force His creation to Love Him then I can truly say we have nothing to converse about because you worship a different god than I..

╮⁠(⁠.⁠ ⁠❛⁠ ⁠ᴗ⁠ ⁠❛⁠.⁠)⁠╭

Hello again Twistie,

You acheived 11 posts to me without quoting the Word of God a single time so this shows the value that the Word of God holds for you.

Lord Jesus doesn't trust your "free-will" because Jesus, on His part, was not entrusting Himself to them, for He knew all men, and because He did not need anyone to testify concerning man, for He Himself knew what was in man (John 2:24-25).

You have zero Holy Scripture which states that you free-will choose Jesus unto salvation, and there is no Holy Scripture that says Jesus trusts you.

You seem quite proud of the evil that you keep attributing to yourself in post after post, Twistie.

Behold Jesus defines belief right here “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Believe Jesus!

Love,
Kermos

 

[bdavidc]

Hi bdavidc,

Lord Jesus Christ's words are wonderful, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29). We Christians know that our very belief in Christ is a blessed work of God!

Your writing there puts people like Nancy in the “Whole world” thus you convey that Christ atoned for people like Nancy, so you believe this example representing fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers applies to this examination of Free-willian Philosophy:

• if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
• if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
• The conclusion: Christ's atonement succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ's atonement failed in saving Nancy of the world.

So, free-willians believe in Christ's failure atonement.

As the original post indicates, when Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, “It is finished!” Then he bowed his head and gave up his spirit (John 19:30), so We Christians know that Christ's atonement always succeeds!

In the promise of the Resurrection,
Kermos

The issue with your logic is that you create a false dilemma the Bible never presents. The Bible is clear that Christ’s atonement is perfect, finished, and it cannot fail (John 19:30, Hebrews 10:14). But that does not mean all will be saved. The Word of God says plainly, “He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2). That means His sacrifice is sufficient for every sinner, but it is only applied to those who believe. The failure is never in Christ’s atonement, the failure is in unbelief. Jesus said, “He that believeth on him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed” (John 3:18). There is no contradiction here: Christ’s work is complete, and every sinner who calls upon His name will be saved (Romans 10:13). But if a sinner rejects Him until death, that is not Christ failing, it is man rejecting the only way of salvation (2 Thessalonians 2:10–12). God’s Word never teaches universal salvation, it teaches a perfect atonement that is received by faith. Christ’s atonement always succeeds in saving those who believe, and it always stands as condemnation against those who reject Him.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Christ4Ever,

I believe the Potter, Holy God, forms man into vessels of mercy or vessels of wrath according to God's will as recorded in:

​

18 He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.​

​

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the Potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory​

(Romans 9:18-23)​

​

So, man's "free-will" has nothing to do with any movement toward salvation, whatsoever.

So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy (Romans 9:16).

I would not use the term preprogrammed because that sounds like "set it and forget it".

I believe God is very active in the lives and hearts and wills of His creatures:

​

"it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure"​

(Philippians 2:13 (NASB1995)).​

​

Love,
Kermos

lol
Yes, his mercy, which allows one to choose whom they will follow. The basis of not having free-will can be seen as merciful because the blame is never humanities to begin with, but it was never meant to see it that way brother. That is why "all" of scripture in context is needed. For to do otherwise, would be to lay blame at the feet of God, which is what the non-believer does, and why it was necessary in the first place, for man to be given a choice.

Too often the assumption is that just because God made the possibility of something to be as it is i.e. evil, disobedience, does not mean it was intended purposely to be used. Otherwise, you'd have to ask yourself then why did God allow for even the possibility of something to be so if free-will was never to be part of the equation. The answer I would say is because it was necessary for free-will to exist. Without which in the first place it really is being preprogrammed, and why I posed the question to you.

Doing God's will voluntarily (Jesus entire ministry/from temptation to death) reenforces free-will instead of negating it. If this were not so, then your only option is to choose "preprogrammed" as the end result, because though other options existed, they were never, could never have be chosen unless they were programmed to do so.

Oh, and it's not "set it and forget it", it's would actually be just "set it". Forget it is never part of the equation, though we know that God can choose to forget or not remember.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Twistie]

Hello again Twistie,

You acheived 11 posts to me without quoting the Word of God a single time so this shows the value that the Word of God holds for you.

Lord Jesus doesn't trust your "free-will" because Jesus, on His part, was not entrusting Himself to them, for He knew all men, and because He did not need anyone to testify concerning man, for He Himself knew what was in man (John 2:24-25).

You have zero Holy Scripture which states that you free-will choose Jesus unto salvation, and there is no Holy Scripture that says Jesus trusts you.

You seem quite proud of the evil that you keep attributing to yourself in post after post, Twistie.

Behold Jesus defines belief right here “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Believe Jesus!

Love,
Kermos

Nope I believe in testing the Spirit like the Lord has taught me n it seems I have no more to talk to you about you been taught by the false templers.. some teach all is saved some teach there is no Father some teach having same sex marriage is all good..
I believe the Word not your cherry picking versesa if I believe your cherry picks I believe I would not need a saviour..

You try n teach a different word then the Word that walked the earth..
Let all who do that be accursed as it is written..

Imagine the Son bringing back filth to the Father smh

♡⁠(⁠>⁠ ⁠ਊ⁠ ⁠<⁠)⁠♡

 

[Kermos]

The issue with your logic is that you create a false dilemma the Bible never presents. The Bible is clear that Christ’s atonement is perfect, finished, and it cannot fail (John 19:30, Hebrews 10:14). But that does not mean all will be saved. The Word of God says plainly, “He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2). That means His sacrifice is sufficient for every sinner, but it is only applied to those who believe. The failure is never in Christ’s atonement, the failure is in unbelief. Jesus said, “He that believeth on him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed” (John 3:18). There is no contradiction here: Christ’s work is complete, and every sinner who calls upon His name will be saved (Romans 10:13). But if a sinner rejects Him until death, that is not Christ failing, it is man rejecting the only way of salvation (2 Thessalonians 2:10–12). God’s Word never teaches universal salvation, it teaches a perfect atonement that is received by faith. Christ’s atonement always succeeds in saving those who believe, and it always stands as condemnation against those who reject Him.

Hello bdavidc,

You are detaching atonement from salvation in your explanation. Afterward, you proceeded to address that only a few will be saved.

You switched from atonement over to salvation, then you tried to use your wrongly shifted argument for salvation to address the specific point about atonement.

You believe that Christ's atonement applies to everybody everywhere in all time (the whole world) which means that you believe Christ atoned for people in hell. See the opening post in this thread.

I believe that Christ's atonement applies to only the people whom Christ chooses (the whole world) which means I believe Christ atoned exclusively to people Christ places in the Kingdom of Heaven.

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world
(1 John 2:2.

you did not choose Me, but I chose you
(John 15:16)

I chose you out of the world
(John 15:19, includes atonement)
​

Believe Christ!

Love,
Kermos

 

[bdavidc]

Hello bdavidc,

You are detaching atonement from salvation in your explanation. Afterward, you proceeded to address that only a few will be saved.

You switched from atonement over to salvation, then you tried to use your wrongly shifted argument for salvation to address the specific point about atonement.

You believe that Christ's atonement applies to everybody everywhere in all time (the whole world) which means that you believe Christ atoned for people in hell. See the opening post in this thread.

I believe that Christ's atonement applies to only the people whom Christ chooses (the whole world) which means I believe Christ atoned exclusively to people Christ places in the Kingdom of Heaven.

​

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world​

(1 John 2:2.​

​

you did not choose Me, but I chose you​

(John 15:16)​

​

I chose you out of the world​

(John 15:19, includes atonement)​

​

Believe Christ!

Love,
Kermos

No, you are forcing the Bible into a system it does not teach. Scripture never says Christ’s atonement is only for the elect, it says plainly, “He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2). “Whole world” means exactly what John already used it to mean earlier, every sinner, everywhere (1 John 5:19). Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient for all, but it is only applied to those who believe, because “he that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18). The difference is not in the power of the atonement but in whether a person receives or rejects it.

Yes, Jesus said, “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you” (John 15: 16), but He was speaking to His apostles about their appointment to go and bear fruit, not about limiting His atonement. The same Gospel records Him saying, “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). The offer of salvation is genuinely to all, and the condemnation comes from unbelief, not from Christ refusing to atone for them.

To be clear: Christ’s atonement never fails. Hebrews 10: 14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” Every sinner who believes is saved completely. But those who perish do so “because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved” (2 Thessalonians 2:10). The Bible teaches a universal provision, but a conditional application: all may be saved, but only those who believe are.

 

[Christ4Ever]

No, you are forcing the Bible into a system it does not teach. Scripture never says Christ’s atonement is only for the elect, it says plainly, “He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2). “Whole world” means exactly what John already used it to mean earlier, every sinner, everywhere (1 John 5:19). Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient for all, but it is only applied to those who believe, because “he that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18). The difference is not in the power of the atonement but in whether a person receives or rejects it.

Yes, Jesus said, “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you” (John 15: 16), but He was speaking to His apostles about their appointment to go and bear fruit, not about limiting His atonement. The same Gospel records Him saying, “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). The offer of salvation is genuinely to all, and the condemnation comes from unbelief, not from Christ refusing to atone for them.

To be clear: Christ’s atonement never fails. Hebrews 10: 14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” Every sinner who believes is saved completely. But those who perish do so “because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved” (2 Thessalonians 2:10). The Bible teaches a universal provision, but a conditional application: all may be saved, but only those who believe are.

Well said.

 

[KingJ]

Hello bdavidc,

You are detaching atonement from salvation in your explanation. Afterward, you proceeded to address that only a few will be saved.

You switched from atonement over to salvation, then you tried to use your wrongly shifted argument for salvation to address the specific point about atonement.

You believe that Christ's atonement applies to everybody everywhere in all time (the whole world) which means that you believe Christ atoned for people in hell. See the opening post in this thread.

I believe that Christ's atonement applies to only the people whom Christ chooses (the whole world) which means I believe Christ atoned exclusively to people Christ places in the Kingdom of Heaven.

​

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world​

(1 John 2:2.​

​

you did not choose Me, but I chose you​

(John 15:16)​

​

I chose you out of the world​

(John 15:19, includes atonement)​

​

Believe Christ!

Love,
Kermos

It is beyond me how someone who believes in God's limited atonement and unconditional election, actually serves Him.

I am sure that the more one interrogates you they will find that you have a truly warped sense of what is good and righteous. We had another Calvinist here recently who pushed that homosexuality is fine. Do you also believe that?

 

[Kermos]

lol
Yes, his mercy, which allows one to choose whom they will follow. The basis of not having free-will can be seen as merciful because the blame is never humanities to begin with, but it was never meant to see it that way brother. That is why "all" of scripture in context is needed. For to do otherwise, would be to lay blame at the feet of God, which is what the non-believer does, and why it was necessary in the first place, for man to be given a choice.

Too often the assumption is that just because God made the possibility of something to be as it is i.e. evil, disobedience, does not mean it was intended purposely to be used. Otherwise, you'd have to ask yourself then why did God allow for even the possibility of something to be so if free-will was never to be part of the equation. The answer I would say is because it was necessary for free-will to exist. Without which in the first place it really is being preprogrammed, and why I posed the question to you.

Doing God's will voluntarily (Jesus entire ministry/from temptation to death) reenforces free-will instead of negating it. If this were not so, then your only option is to choose "preprogrammed" as the end result, because though other options existed, they were never, could never have be chosen unless they were programmed to do so.

Oh, and it's not "set it and forget it", it's would actually be just "set it". Forget it is never part of the equation, though we know that God can choose to forget or not remember.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Oh, Christ4Ever,

You "lol" (laugh out loud) over the Sovereignty of God.

If you really believe that the Lord Jesus Christ had a free-will, then quote a Holy Scripture which states the Son of God had a free-will. When Lord Jesus says "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will" (Matthew 26:39), then the Holy Spirit reveals that the Son, in His words, "I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38).

The Son mentions not free-will here; in Truth (John 14:6), the Son mentions that the Father's will drives the Son's will here "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 5:30).

The Son's will, bound to the Father, accomplished the Father's will as the Word of God declares "I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do" (John 17:4)!

Since Christ is the example for us Christians (John 13:15), then we are as our Example.

Christ4Ever, notice that nowhere does Jesus say "free-will choose to do the Father's will".

Love,
Kermos

 

[KingJ]

If you really believe that the Lord Jesus Christ had a free-will, then quote a Holy Scripture which states the Son of God had a free-will. When Lord Jesus says "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will" (Matthew 26:39), then the Holy Spirit reveals that the Son, in His words, "I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38).

Luke 22:42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

The Son mentions not free-will here; in Truth (John 14:6), the Son mentions that the Father's will drives the Son's will here "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 5:30).

The Son's will, bound to the Father, accomplished the Father's will as the Word of God declares "I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do" (John 17:4)!

It was Jesus's will to submit to the Fathers will.

Since Christ is the example for us Christians (John 13:15), then we are as our Example.

Here are ten clear examples of Jesus having free will:

1. Jesus Voluntarily Came to Earth

John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me."

This shows Jesus had His own will, distinct from the Father's, but He chose to submit it freely.

2. Jesus Chose to Lay Down His Life

John 10:17–18 "The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again."

A clear expression of autonomy: Jesus willed to die and to rise. He was not forced—He acted of His own will.

3. Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane

Matthew 26:39 "And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, ‘My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.’”

Here, Jesus explicitly refers to His own will as distinct from the Father's. He could have chosen otherwise—but He freely submitted.

4. Jesus’ Temptation in the Wilderness

Matthew 4:1–11 "And the tempter came and said to him, 'If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.' But he answered, 'It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone…'"

Temptation implies a real capacity to choose. Jesus’ resistance shows He freely chose obedience, even when it was hard.

5. Jesus’ Response to Peter Regarding the Cross

Matthew 16:21–23 “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God…”

Peter tempts Jesus to avoid suffering, but Jesus chooses to stay on the path to the cross, knowing what it entails.

6. Jesus Choosing to Heal or Not Heal

Mark 1:40–41 “A man with leprosy came to him and begged him on his knees, ‘If you are willing, you can make me clean.’ Filled with compassion, Jesus reached out his hand… ‘I am willing,’ he said. ‘Be clean!’”

Jesus expresses a personal will—He chooses to heal. He could have chosen otherwise.

7. Jesus Deciding Not to Call on Angels for Help

Matthew 26:53 “Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?”

Jesus had the freedom to avoid arrest and crucifixion, but chose not to. This reinforces that His suffering was voluntary.

8. Jesus’ Teaching about Doing the Father's Will Freely

John 4:34 “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to accomplish his work.”

The metaphor of "food" shows He delights in doing the Father's will—it’s a personal choice, not compulsion.

9. Jesus Choosing Whom to Reveal the Father To

Matthew 11:27 “…No one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”

This implies Jesus exercises discretion and will in revealing God to others.

10. Jesus’ Willingness to Forgive

Luke 23:34 “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

Jesus freely offers forgiveness even to His executioners. This shows volitional love, not reactive emotion.

The clearest theological support comes from:

Philippians 2:5–8 “…He humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death—even death on a cross.”

 

[KingJ]

Your empty explanation is null and void because you believe that God, the Righteous Judge, gives credence to man free-will choosing God, which is, by definition, God being partial to whatever man;

Like I have said to you many times now, you do not understand what the word partial means.

Partiality would be to offer ice cream to only three of your six children. That one of the three rejects the ice cream as they want to look good in their jeans, is a completely separate topic.

Teaching that God would be partial to some of us, when He is the Creator of all, including a fiery and eternal hell, portrays Him as monstrously evil. Please meditate on this fact and stop pushing this false message.

----------------------

You clearly have a working brain, so why the ostrich syndrome and intentional selective reading?

Matt 18:6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Oh, Christ4Ever,

You "lol" (laugh out loud) over the Sovereignty of God.

(Heavy sigh)

There is a joy in the Lord brother. Do you know it?
When you read His Word, does it have you at times jumping up in wonder, amazement, and joy?
The joy in knowing how awesome He is?

If you don't find this same joy in the brotherhood of faith as well, even though I know it can also be trying at times, then you are missing out in the love that is God. Don't let stoicism take it away from you.

If you really believe that the Lord Jesus Christ had a free-will, then quote a Holy Scripture which states the Son of God had a free-will. When Lord Jesus says "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will" (Matthew 26:39), then the Holy Spirit reveals that the Son, in His words, "I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38).

What you see in what you have written above is the lack of free-will, what I see is obedience, and free-will in action! lol (joy)
For you there is no obedience, because there is no free-will! Don't you see that!

Off to breakfast or I'd be gnawing over this for a while. Instead, it goes to you as quickly as I've read it.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[KingJ]

@Kermos

12 Scriptures with explanations clearly stating that God is impartial.

Thread 'Is God partial?'

Sep 12, 2025

It seems that many are eager to teach us all about how a sovereign and omniscient God cannot but be partial. Limited atonement. Unconditional election.

In this thread we will be looking specifically at scripture that shows us that God chooses to be impartial in His dealings with us.

We know from Paul in Rom 9:21 that He can indeed be partial. Who are we to tell God what he can and cannot do. But the rest of scripture outside of Rom 9:21 tells us clearly, what God does in fact decide to do with all His 'omniscience and sovereignty'. He chooses to be as good as He is great. He...

• KingJ
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Bible Study

 

[Kermos]

Nope I believe in testing the Spirit like the Lord has taught me n it seems I have no more to talk to you about you been taught by the false templers.. some teach all is saved some teach there is no Father some teach having same sex marriage is all good..
I believe the Word not your cherry picking versesa if I believe your cherry picks I believe I would not need a saviour..

You try n teach a different word then the Word that walked the earth..
Let all who do that be accursed as it is written..

Imagine the Son bringing back filth to the Father smh

♡⁠(⁠>⁠ ⁠ਊ⁠ ⁠<⁠)⁠♡

Oh, Twistie,

I and every Christian need our Savior because, living Lord Jesus loved me, dying he saved me, buried He carried my sins far away, and rising He justified me.

The Natural Is The First State Of Being For All Mere Mortals​

The Apostle Paul identifies every man starts out as a natural man with "the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual" (1 Corinthians 15:46).

The Apostle Paul states that man is accountable to God for man's own sin against God with "since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20).

The Apostle Paul includes even the Gentiles in the Law "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves" (Romans 2:14).

The Apostle Paul states that man is accountable to God for man's own crime against God with "we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law [comes] the knowledge of sin" (Romans 3:19-20).

The Apostle Paul explains that the commands of God are foolishness to man with a "natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised" (1 Corinthians 2:14)

The Apostle Paul declares that man's flesh opposes the Spirit of God with "the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. For these are opposed to one another" (Galatians 5:17).

The Apostle Paul declares that man's flesh is hostile against God and the flesh cannot please God with "the mind of the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able [to do so], and those who are in the flesh cannot please God" (Romans 8:7-8).

THE FIRST STATE OF MAN IS OPPOSITION TO GOD, AND THE ONLY WAY (JOHN 14:6) FOR MAN'S SALVATION IS FOR GOD TO BIRTH MAN ANEW (JOHN 3:3-8), NOT A WORK OF A CHOICE BY MAN, BUT STRICTLY THE WORK OF SAVIOR GOD IN MAN (Ephesians 2:8-10).

The indwelling Holy Spirit has had me explain to you that I am a Christian under the loving control of the Living God, yet you wrote "You try n teach a different word then the Word that walked the earth.. Let all who do that be accursed as it is written", so you slander (blaspheme) the Holy Spirit who controls me (2 Corinthians 5:14)! The Word of God declares "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come" (Matthew 12:31-32).

The whole of the Bible reveals the Sovereignty of God and man's complete dependence upon God for being saved from the wrath of God. The whole of the Bible teaches God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind is good (Ephesians 1:1-14, Ephesians 2:13)!

Saved by my loving Lord Jesus,
Kermos