The real big problem with a non-OSAS belief

[KingJ]

@Curtis

I never expected you to believe as 5 point Calvinists do. This is a very sad day indeed.

I will ask you the question I ask all Calvinists. This question shows the extreme error and heresy of this belief.

--------------------------------

Scripture is CRYSTAL clear that God is good Psalm 136:1, righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17, light with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5 and that it is unthinkable that He pervert justice or do what is evil Job 34:12.

As such, please explain either of these two points to me.

A. How is unconditional election type foreknowledge not partiality? or

B. How is partiality a good thing and not pure 10/10 evil?

Just FYI, I have asked this of every 5 point Calvinist here and have yet to hear back from any of them. It seems they are just fine with believing and teaching that God is pure evil. Imagine that. Matt 18:6 just comes to my mind repeatedly when I think of them.

 

[KingJ]

How can a person come to Jesus (become a sheep) if they can not hear his voice calling to them?

Conscience!

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Psalm 51:17 has been the gospel from God to mankind from day 1.

Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; A broken and a contrite heart, God, You will not despise.

-------------

The belief that you need God to convict you of sin in order to repent is literal idiocy.

You would need to defy everything your five senses and working brain tell you. This is such a silly facepalm belief.

 

[Curtis]

A. How is unconditional election type foreknowledge not partiality? or

Rom 9:18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?"
Rom 9:20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"
Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

Is God showing partiality when he alone chooses to make one vessel for honor and the other for dishonor?

Rom 9:20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"

Don't ask me, ask God yourself.

 

[B-A-C]

he type of OSAS belief I hold to is one where, just as God does not make a mistake blotting a name out, He does likewise not make a mistake gifting someone salvation. As such, I hold to a belief that true Christianity would cement your name in the book of life.

I believe God knows the future, but I believe He is the God of "right now, this instant, this second".
I don't think He writes down the records of what will be a week from now, a year from now, a decade from now.

Does God make mistakes? I don't think so. But does God give everyone a chance, yes I believe He does.
Anyone who wants to be saved, can be saved. Anyone who doesn't want to be saved, doesn't have to be.

Did God make a mistake, when Satan was cast out of heaven?

Did God make a mistake, when Judas betrayed Jesus?

"The Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart." — Genesis 6:6, NASB95

Did God make a mistake in creating mankind?

The Bible does say God can and will blot out or remove names from the Book of Life. Is that a mistake?

In all cases... I would say no.

In 1970 little Johnny was born.
Some say babys names are in the BOL. I don't know, but for now we will say OK they are.

In 1982 Johnny reaches the age of accountability. Maybe around 11 or 12 years old. His name is removed from the Book of Life?
If this is true, then God "made a mistake" by putting his name in the Book of Life in the first place.

In 1995 Johnny gets saved. He totally believes in Jesus, He totally gives His heart to Jesus. He prays, He goes to church.
He witnesses to people. - So God has to fix His "first mistake" and write Johnny's name back into the Book of Life.

In 2005 Johnny decides he wants to be gay and takes a same sex partner he isn't married to. He may continue to call himself a Christian,
or he may totally reject Jesus, to me it doesn't matter that much. But now God has to fix yet "another mistake". And erase Johnny name again.

I don't think of this was a mistake. I think this is exacxtly what God does. He keeps a record of where you are right now. This moment, this instant.
Not where you will be 10 or 20 years from now. He may know the future. But He keeps a record of right now.

In 2025 Johnny dies, and has to stand before God to be judged. (This isn't exactly how I think it really happens, but for ther sake of this illustration bear with me) Johnny could say one of two things.

1. You never gave me a chance to be saved. You never wrote my name in the BOL. Since it was never an option, you never gave me a chance.

2. You gave me a chance to be saved. My name was in the BOL, at least for a while. You tested me, and I failed the test. You gave me a a chance, and I failed.

I think God gives everyone a chance. Everyone can fail or pass the test by their own decisions.
God isn't worried about what you r decision will be in 10 years. He wants to know your decision right now. Today, this hour, this minute.
Whatever decision you make... it isn't a mistake. It's God giving you a choice.. giving you a chance.

 

[KingJ]

Rom 9:18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?"
Rom 9:20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"
Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

Is God showing partiality when he alone chooses to make one vessel for honor and the other for dishonor?

Rom 9:20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"

Don't ask me, ask God yourself.

You are dancing....

Rom 9:21 is Calvinism 101 and perhaps one of the furthest straws you need to grab to make your case.

Paul is simply making the point that God is God and can do whatever He wants. In the rest of scripture we read exactly what God does in fact decide to do......Impartial Acts 10:34, wills all be saved 1 Tim 2:4, whomsoever believe John 3:16, call sinners to repentance Luke 5:32, anyone who opens the door Rev 3:20, approach anyone who draws near to Him James 4:8, be righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17...I just need to quote literally any scripture outside of Rom 9 for you. Imagine that. How many pages have been torn from your bible?

See, I dealt with your passages. A simple reading of the passage does confirm my view. But you have not and cannot deal with the scriptures I gave you and nor the question I asked you.

------------

No, God is not partial, no need to ask Him, many prophets and scriptures clearly confirm this. Did you read post # 282?

And YES Partiality is pure evil and the ONLY logical truth from unconditional election. I think Calvinists either don't grasp the evil of partiality and the dictionary definition of 'righteous' or they believe God gave people brains that don't work?

-----------------

You need to make it personal, imagine your daughter who is eight years old is thrown into the fires of hell by God as her name is not in His special book..... and she never stood a chance to get to heaven. Or imagine you are thrown into hell....will you worship God as good from hell when on fire? 5 Point Calvinism is the sickest belief there is. One cannot fail harder at representing God to the lost.

 

[KingJ]

I believe God knows the future, but I believe He is the God of "right now, this instant, this second".
I don't think He writes down the records of what will be a week from now, a year from now, a decade from now.

So, this is called limited omniscience. For some reason people don't like that word, but it is what it is.

I can agree with your view, both our views do not incriminate God.

The reality is that grasping God is literally beyond us. But grasping scripture is not. And in scripture God confirms that we can hold Him to it. He says He does not lie like a man in Num 23:19 and His word says He is impartial Acts 10:34 and in many more as provided in post # 282.

As such, He will in some or other way one day prove His impartiality to us. A human can only explain this as Him limiting it in order to uphold being good. There are no other words to make sense of how He can be impartial if also omniscient.

Especially when we consider that the punishment for being a 'vessel unto dishonor' is eternal separation in a place called the lake of fire.

The 'only' saving grace of 5 point Calvinists is that they at large teach and believe in annihilationism.

Does God make mistakes? I don't think so. But does God give everyone a chance, yes I believe He does.

Did God make a mistake, when Satan was cast out of heaven?

God does not make any mistakes. Ever. You need to meditate a bit more on the fact that when the devil was cast out, A. He never stopped sinning and one day desired repentance or B. Was welcomed back into heaven. Ever.

Anyone who wants to be saved, can be saved. Anyone who doesn't want to be saved, doesn't have to be.

Agreed.

Did God make a mistake, when Judas betrayed Jesus?

God made an important point for us all to grasp by choosing Judas. Namely, He wanted us to see that He gives wicked people a chance. They fall by themselves. They are given equal opportunity. Nobody to blame except for themselves. Absolutely no partiality by God.

On this topic, a better fact to note would be, if Jesus chose Judas when he was still a child, He would not have called him a devil in John 6.

It is because Judas was an adult, close to being sold out to evil, that Jesus knew him as a devil.

"The Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart." — Genesis 6:6, NASB95

Did God make a mistake in creating mankind?

So verses like this are always very interesting to read.

A. They point clearly to limited omniscience.
B. I can just imagine being in Moses's shoes when he was given this divine revelation. He was looking at a God that loves us so much and was so heartbroken by what we were doing.

God showed me a vision. It was so real, that I have zero doubt it was from God. I lost someone very very very dear to me!!! I was broken inside. God said to me, 'I know exactly what you are going through, I lose people all day and every loss hurts'. When He said this, I felt peace and since then, I have felt healed. As I lost one person, but God loses millions.

Every person that hardens their heart to repentance of sin breaks God's heart.

 

[KingJ]

The Bible does say God can and will blot out or remove names from the Book of Life. Is that a mistake?

No. He never makes a mistake.

We also know that He has never re-written a name in the book of life. There is no such scripture.

In all cases... I would say no.

In 1970 little Johnny was born.
Some say babys names are in the BOL. I don't know, but for now we will say OK they are.

In 1982 Johnny reaches the age of accountability. Maybe around 11 or 12 years old. His name is removed from the Book of Life?
If this is true, then God "made a mistake" by putting his name in the Book of Life in the first place.

In 1995 Johnny gets saved. He totally believes in Jesus, He totally gives His heart to Jesus. He prays, He goes to church.
He witnesses to people. - So God has to fix His "first mistake" and write Johnny's name back into the Book of Life.

In 2005 Johnny decides he wants to be gay and takes a same sex partner he isn't married to. He may continue to call himself a Christian,
or he may totally reject Jesus, to me it doesn't matter that much. But now God has to fix yet "another mistake". And erase Johnny name again.

I don't think of this was a mistake. I think this is exacxtly what God does. He keeps a record of where you are right now. This moment, this instant.
Not where you will be 10 or 20 years from now. He may know the future. But He keeps a record of right now.

In 2025 Johnny dies, and has to stand before God to be judged. (This isn't exactly how I think it really happens, but for ther sake of this illustration bear with me) Johnny could say one of two things.

1. You never gave me a chance to be saved. You never wrote my name in the BOL. Since it was never an option, you never gave me a chance.

2. You gave me a chance to be saved. My name was in the BOL, at least for a while. You tested me, and I failed the test. You gave me a a chance, and I failed.

Well God would not make the mistake of gifting Johnny with saving faith. He never sunk to a depth of intent with repentance.

Please consider this example. You are about to die as a single old man. One year to live. You have a massive inheritance that will go to the state as you have no next of kin. You want to meet a nice girl that can love you for your last year on earth. But you want someone who truly loves you. You meet and get to know two girls, which one do you gift your inheritance to?

Girl A - Well presented, seems kind and caring. She washes your dishes and cleans your house everyday. Reading you a story before you go to bed. Tucks you in and makes sure you warm every night. Then one night a burglar breaks in and shoots a bullet accurately at your head. She saves herself by jumping out of harms way, behind the kitchen counter.

Girl B - Well presented, seems kind and caring. She washes your dishes, reads to you and tucks you in only for the first month. The second month she takes a solo holiday in Hawaii. She comes back. Then one night a burglar breaks in and shoots a bullet accurately at your head. She saves your life by jumping in front of you and pushes you behind the kitchen counter.

Should you survive in both instances, which one gets your inheritance?

Christianity is 'all' about depth of intent. God does not make the mistake of gifting salvation 'until' He knows that our hearts are right. Once He gifts us salvation, He does not take it back. If He does, then you by default need to also believe that for all eternity, you will be walking on egg shells.

I think God gives everyone a chance. Everyone can fail or pass the test by their own decisions.
God isn't worried about what you r decision will be in 10 years. He wants to know your decision right now. Today, this hour, this minute.
Whatever decision you make... it isn't a mistake. It's God giving you a choice.. giving you a chance.

You can make right decisions your whole life, it can still mean naught to God.

James 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23;And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Have you ever meditated on the young rich man and how Jesus said to him that he had to sell all he had? Sell all he had = salvation. Be good and charitable his whole life = no salvation.

 

[joestue]

His name is removed from the Book of Life?

It only makes sense for 2 books if the book of life is simply everyone presently alive on the earth.. its erased when you die

 

[B-A-C]

You can make right decisions your whole life, it can still mean naught to God.

James 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23;And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

For me, this passage is really about verse 23. "You who continue to sin". I'm not sure I would call that "right decisions".
But I do agree with some of what you say here.

 

[Garee]

No. He never makes a mistake.

We also know that He has never re-written a name in the book of life. There is no such scripture.



Well God would not make the mistake of gifting Johnny with saving faith. He never sunk to a depth of intent with repentance.

Please consider this example. You are about to die as a single old man. One year to live. You have a massive inheritance that will go to the state as you have no next of kin. You want to meet a nice girl that can love you for your last year on earth. But you want someone who truly loves you. You meet and get to know two girls, which one do you gift your inheritance to?

Girl A - Well presented, seems kind and caring. She washes your dishes and cleans your house everyday. Reading you a story before you go to bed. Tucks you in and makes sure you warm every night. Then one night a burglar breaks in and shoots a bullet accurately at your head. She saves herself by jumping out of harms way, behind the kitchen counter.

Girl B - Well presented, seems kind and caring. She washes your dishes, reads to you and tucks you in only for the first month. The second month she takes a solo holiday in Hawaii. She comes back. Then one night a burglar breaks in and shoots a bullet accurately at your head. She saves your life by jumping in front of you and pushes you behind the kitchen counter.

Should you survive in both instances, which one gets your inheritance?

Christianity is 'all' about depth of intent. God does not make the mistake of gifting salvation 'until' He knows that our hearts are right. Once He gifts us salvation, He does not take it back. If He does, then you by default need to also believe that for all eternity, you will be walking on egg shells.



You can make right decisions your whole life, it can still mean naught to God.

James 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23;And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Have you ever meditated on the young rich man and how Jesus said to him that he had to sell all he had? Sell all he had = salvation. Be good and charitable his whole life = no salvation.

I would offer.

Christianity is 'all' about God pouring out his Holy Spirit life on dying flesh and blood in jeopardy of his own Holy Spirit life.

In that way he is not served by the hands as a will of dying mankind.

Christ in us sends out the apostles with his wonderful, faithful living words. Not self-willed apostles as workers of iniquity taking away the glory of our invisible God.

To show he is not served by the dying hands of mankind in any way shape or form. He reveals it in a ceremonial law as a parable. Using a ceremonial clean Lamb to represent the rising power of the Holy Father.to redeem. And an Ass is used to represent the unredeemed, natural unconverted mankind . (Exodus 13:13 Exodus 34:20)

Therefore using an Ass to represent his chosen apostle. (Numbers 22:28) He place his living word on the tongue of the beast of burden as a living word rebuked the false apostle Balaam. Teaching again the" let there be" God is not served by the human will as hands.

It is the same reason why when moving Moses to finish sola scriptura He was to place sola scriptura on the outside of the golden ark ,Gold used to represent faith the unseen things of God . it revealed what was hidden the manna called hidden mana in Revelation 2:17 and the two tablets used to represent sola scriptura alone and with the rod of Christ judgment after Aaron the kingdom of priests.

He knew as soon as Moses died it would bring more Balaam's looking to destroy sola scriptura

Deuteronomy 31:24-30;And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book,(sola scritura) until they were finished,That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,Take this book of the law,(sola scritura) and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the Lord; and how much more after my death? Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.;For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.
.
t would appear an Ass is used to represent dying unredeemed mankind throughout the Bible

One parable when entering the city uses an unredeemed ass (daughter of Sion) carrying the redeemer the lamb of God

John 12:13-15;Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.;And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,;Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

 

[B-A-C]

the Holy Father Christ did work

Do you believe the Christ (Jesus) is the Father?

 

[Garee]

Do you believe the Christ (Jesus) is the Father?

Yes, not Jesus the Son man born again of the Father. But the Holy Father the one that makes all things in Christ possible

The word Jesus (savior) is used in two ways. The temporal Son seen, with the Jesus not seen (the Christ) that worked in the Son of man to both reveal the powerful will and empower the son of man Jesus to perform it to the pleasure of Christ the savior.

 

[B-A-C]

Thanks for the explanation on your view.

 

[Bill]

I wonder if it could be inferred?

17Now the seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name!”
18And He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
19Behold, I have given you authority to walk on snakes and scorpions, and authority over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you.
20Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven.”

66 As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
67 So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?”
68 Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
69 “We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.”
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?”
71 Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of cthe twelve, 1was going to betray Him.

Thank you that was well written.

I think it's important to note, that Judas even knowing that Jesus was the Messiah still chose to betray Jesus.

 

[Bill]

This is what Jesus said to the church in Sardis.....

....... “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.

Rev 3:2 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.
Rev 3:3 Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.
Rev 3:4 Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.
Rev 3:5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. (ESV)

A completely dead church, except for a few who have not soiled their garments. (These few have overcome in this world) Jesus tells them he will NEVER blot out their names from his book. Conquers (born-again believers) will NEVER have their names removed from the book of life!

Being an overcomer happens in this life, not the next, as there is nothing to overcome in the next life.

I think it's important to note that he tells them to repent. And if you're repenting that means you have done something wrong to repent from. So there are those even though they have soiled their garments, can still repent and return to Christ versus dying in sim

 

[B-A-C]

I would like to stop and make a comment here.

I don't always agree with everything @Curtis and @KingJ say here. And that's OK, I'm sure they don't agree with me on everything either.

But I do have to commend them on their ability to communicate. This has been a good discussion. People have remained courteous,
and professional for the most part. No name calling, no condescending remarks. No real passive-aggressiveness. No overwhelming with
walls of text. For the most part this has been a very cordial debate. I won't say it's been perfect, but it has been a lot closer than most.

Is there a winner or loser? I don't know, I don't think changed anyone's mind of what they believe, but I truly believe if we can communicate
in love, then everyone's a winner, at least in that sense. There are a few other names I could list here also.

 

[Garee]

I would offer a dynamic example of the repenting. . the comforting work of Christ. Repent turn in order to comfort.

Thomas not part of the other apostles when God breathed into them eternal life the repenting comforting power.

Faithless, no understanding coming from an invisible Holy Father. not doubting Thomas. The opposite of "Let there be faith" is unbelief no and it was good power.

Everyone doubts before making a choice between two possibilities. Satan not subject to gospel understanding hid in parables would make doubt the end of the matter. Accuses the brethren day and night . . .24/7 every time they do doubt .

Jesus the son of man the apostle prophet prophesied the powerful words of the Holy Father. The Father lovingly commanded Thomas be not faithless (without the understnding of the unseen Holy Father) but rather I empower you to repent. Then as a confession of faith the power of God he placed his words on Thomas' tongue, he prophesied the word of God My Lord and my God.

John 20:24-29;But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.;And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.(act of repenting)And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

[Curtis]

Jesus always knew Judas would never believe in him and that he (Judas) would betray him, which would lead to Jesus' arrest and crucifixion, which was the will of God.

Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

The reason Jesus chose Judas was so that the scripture would be fulfilled.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[KingJ]

I would like to stop and make a comment here.

I don't always agree with everything @Curtis and @KingJ say here. And that's OK, I'm sure they don't agree with me on everything either.

But I do have to commend them on their ability to communicate. This has been a good discussion. People have remained courteous,
and professional for the most part. No name calling, no condescending remarks. No real passive-aggressiveness. No overwhelming with
walls of text. For the most part this has been a very cordial debate. I won't say it's been perfect, but it has been a lot closer than most.

Is there a winner or loser? I don't know, I don't think changed anyone's mind of what they believe, but I truly believe if we can communicate
in love, then everyone's a winner, at least in that sense. There are a few other names I could list here also.

.
Right back at you BAC, don't think I have ever seen you get rude or upset .

 

[Garee]

Jesus always knew Judas would never believe in him and that he (Judas) would betray him, which would lead to Jesus' arrest and crucifixion, which was the will of God.

Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

The reason Jesus chose Judas was so that the scripture would be fulfilled.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

One thing

It would be Jesus the Christ eternal God. He, the "let there be" alone knew from the beginning, Not Jesus the Son of man born of woman his beginning

Mark 13:31-33;Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.;Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

The dynamic dual using the temporal historical things seen in a parable to give us the unseen eternal understanding of faith the let there be power of the Holy Father.

The valuable mixing recipe needed to rightly divide the parable hiding the understanding from the father of lies.

2 Corinthians 4:18;While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.