The Tribulation Isn’t What You Think — and Jesus Never Taught a Rapture Escape Plan

[Curtis]

Jesus never taught a secret rapture to escape tribulation.

Luk 21:34 "Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap;
Luk 21:35 for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth.
Luk 21:36 "But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Luk 21:34 "Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap;
Luk 21:35 for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth.
Luk 21:36 "But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."

You're quoting Luke 21:36 like it's a "get out of tribulation free" card.
But Jesus never said we escape by being raptured.
He said we escape by enduring in faith — not by vanishing.

Let’s look at the context you skipped:

Luke 21:28 – “When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

Jesus is literally telling believers to watch the tribulation unfold —
not vanish before it.

Same with verse 34:
“Be on guard… that day does not come on you suddenly like a trap.”

Why warn us to be alert if we’re not here?
If the Church is raptured before tribulation, this warning would be completely pointless.

Now to the verse you quoted:
“Pray that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things…” (Luke 21:36)

The word “escape” here is not rapture.
It’s the Greek word ekphygē — it simply means to flee, avoid, or be spared through endurance or protection.
It’s used all over the New Testament in non-rapture contexts — like escaping temptation, judgment, or trials.

Jesus isn’t promising an evacuation.
He’s calling for perseverance.

Compare with:
“Because you have kept My command to endure, I will keep you from the hour of trial…” (Revelation 3:10)

That doesn’t mean airlift. It means protection in the storm, not removal from it —
just like Noah in the ark or Israel in Egypt during the plagues.

So no — Luke 21 isn’t a rapture text.
It’s a wake-up call for the Church to stay sober, faithful, and strong during tribulation,
so we can stand before the Son of Man when He comes — once, in glory, after it’s over.

Scofield theology rewrites that.
Jesus didn’t.

 

[Curtis]

2. Paul says: Don’t be deceived — “that day” will NOT come until two things happen:

1. The falling away happens

2. The man of sin is revealed — 2 Thess. 2:3

How can the man of sin be revealed if the restrainer is not taken out of the way? He can't. Who is the restrainer?

2Th 2:6 And YOU KNOW WHAT IS RESTRAINING HIM NOW SO THAT HE MAY BE REVEALED IN HIS TIME.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only HE WHO NOW RESTRAINS IT WILL DO SO UNTIL HE IS OUT OF THE WAY.
2Th 2:8 And THEN THE LAWLESS ONE WILL BE REVEALED, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. (ESV)

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

How can the man of sin be revealed if the restrainer is not taken out of the way? He can't. Who is the restrainer?

2Th 2:6 And YOU KNOW WHAT IS RESTRAINING HIM NOW SO THAT HE MAY BE REVEALED IN HIS TIME.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only HE WHO NOW RESTRAINS IT WILL DO SO UNTIL HE IS OUT OF THE WAY.
2Th 2:8 And THEN THE LAWLESS ONE WILL BE REVEALED, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. (ESV)

You're assuming the “restrainer” is the Church or the Holy Spirit — but Paul never says that.
That’s an assumption imposed on the text, not pulled from it.

Let’s deal with what we actually do know:

1. The restrainer is deliberately unnamed.
“And you know what is restraining…” (2 Thess. 2:6)

If Paul wanted every future generation to believe it was the Holy Spirit or Church, he could’ve just said so.
But he didn’t. Why? Because the early Church already knew what it was — and it wasn’t “the rapture.”

Early Church Fathers like Tertullian, Chrysostom, and Irenaeus said the restrainer was Roman imperial rule or general human government, which was holding back total lawlessness. That fits the text far better than ripping the Spirit or the Church out of the world.

2. The Holy Spirit can’t “be taken out of the way.”
“He will be with you forever.” — John 14:16
Jesus promised the Spirit would never leave His people.

If the Spirit leaves the earth during the tribulation, then nobody can be saved, because it’s the Spirit who convicts and regenerates (John 16:8; Titus 3:5).
So are you saying nobody can repent after the rapture? Even the so-called “tribulation saints”?
That contradicts your own theology.

3. The text says the man of sin is revealed after the restrainer is removed — not that the Church is raptured before it.
“Then the lawless one will be revealed…” (2 Thess. 2:8)
This directly follows verse 3:
“That day will NOT come unless the falling away comes first and the man of sin is revealed.”

So your timeline is broken.

If “that day” (the return of Christ and our gathering to Him) can’t happen until the Antichrist is revealed,
then the Church is still here when that happens — not raptured before it.

4. Paul’s entire point in 2 Thessalonians 2 is to calm down the believers who were afraid they’d missed the return of Christ.
If the rapture was supposed to come before the Antichrist, Paul could’ve just said,
“You haven’t missed anything — we’d already be gone.”

But he doesn’t say that.
He says:

“Don’t be deceived… that day will not come unless…”
1. A falling away happens
2. The man of sin is revealed
— 2 Thess. 2:3

That’s not pre-trib.
That’s post-trib — and Paul knew it.

So no — you don’t get to rewrite the timeline by guessing who the restrainer is.
Stick to what the text actually says:
Jesus returns once, the Church is still here when Antichrist is revealed,
and only then are we gathered to Him.

No secret rapture. No vanishing act. No Scofield escape clause.
Just one glorious return of Christ — after tribulation, just as Jesus said.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

They fed you this Scofieldian fantasy (found no where in the Bible) to warp your mind and control you....

1. Scofield’s Zionist Rapture Lie: A Two-Phase Scam
Scofield’s Bible introduced a new framework that split the return of Christ into two events:
A secret rapture (Jesus comes halfway for the Church)
A later Second Coming (Jesus comes all the way down for Israel)

This is nowhere in Scripture. Jesus never teaches two returns. It was invented to:
Create a false hope of escape (pre-trib rapture)
Divide God’s people into two groups (ethnic Israel vs. Church)
Postpone Christ’s reign to a future millennium rather than recognize that He is King now

This idea taught Christians they’d be rescued before hardship — not refined through it.

2. The “Second-Chance Tribulation” Made the Church Spiritually Passive
Scofield’s system implied:
If you miss the rapture, don’t worry — you can still become a “tribulation saint”
God isn’t done with Israel — the Church is just a “pause” in His plan
All the real fireworks happen after we’re gone

This gutted urgency, obedience, and identity from the Church:
No need to stand firm through tribulation — just disappear before it
No need to confront evil — “we’ll be outta here”
No need to be the Kingdom now — that’s for later Jews

But the New Testament doesn’t teach any of that. It teaches that tribulation is part of the normal Christian life — not something we get zapped out of.

3. Jesus Said the Opposite

Jesus said:
“In this world you will have tribulation… but take heart, I have overcome the world.” (John 16:33)

He never said: “Don’t worry, you’ll vanish before it gets bad.”

He did say:
“After the tribulation of those days… then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man… and He will gather His elect.” (Matthew 24:29–31)

He warned us to endure — not escape:

“He who endures to the end will be saved.” (Matthew 24:13)

That’s what real discipleship looks like. That’s what the apostles taught. That’s what the early Church died for.


4. The Church Is Israel — There Is No “Plan B”
Scofield cut the Bible in half and created two peoples of God — which the Bible never does. He said:
God has one plan for the Jews (earthly kingdom)
And a separate one for the Church (heaven)

But Scripture says the opposite:
The Church is the Israel of God (Galatians 6:16)
Gentiles are grafted in to the one olive tree (Romans 11)
There is no Jew or Greek, but all are one in Christ (Galatians 3:28)
The promises made to Abraham’s seed are fulfilled in Christ alone (Galatians 3:16)

There is no “Plan B” for ethnic Jews. There is only Christ — and anyone, Jew or Gentile, who rejects Him, is cut off.
The Church hasn’t replaced Israel — the Church is Israel, fulfilled and reborn through Jesus, the true Seed of Abraham.


5. The “Rapture” Doctrine Makes Jesus a Liar
If the righteous are removed first, then Jesus lied — because He said:

“As it was in the days of Noah… the flood came and took them all away… so shall it be when the Son of Man comes. One will be taken, and the other left.” (Matthew 24:37–41)

Who was taken in Noah’s day? The wicked.
Who was left behind? The righteous.

Jesus doesn’t contradict Himself. The ones “taken” are taken in judgment — not raptured to heaven.
The rapture doctrine flips His warning upside down.

Summary: Scofield’s Rapture Doctrine Did 3 Things:

1. Separated the Church from her Jewish roots — and redefined Israel as unbelievers

2. Promised escape instead of perseverance — turning faith into fantasy

3. Postponed Christ’s Kingdom — denying His reign now, through His body

Truth:
Jesus returns once
At the end
To rescue the righteous, judge the wicked, and reign forever

There is no secret rapture.
There is no second plan for ethnic Israel.
The Church is Israel.
And tribulation is not wrath — it’s our refining.

Thats how we finally got here, to the unbelievable nightmare we're living in today... like a sci-fi horror film.

^ This image perfectly captures what Scofield Dispensationalism ultimately produced:
a war-mongering, Zionist-worshipping church that cheers for nuclear fire in the name of prophecy —
completely clueless to the fact that the Body of Christ is Israel.

Let’s get real. The apostles would’ve rebuked these men as heretics and traitors.
The early Church Fathers would’ve called this idolatry, warmongering, and antichrist deception.

So how did we go from humble Christians awaiting the Kingdom of God to this pack of raving Scofield cultists waving Rothschild-Israeli flags donning the demonic Star of Remphan and begging for Armageddon? It’s not Christianity anymore — it’s prophetic delusion wrapped in Zionist idolatry.

HOW SCOFIELD TURNED THE CHURCH INTO A ZIONIST WAR MACHINE

1. HE REWROTE THE BIBLE USING ZIONIST FOOTNOTES
Scofield wasn’t a scholar. He was a convicted felon, funded by Zionist agents like Samuel Untermeyer to promote a Zionist propaganda Bible.
He added footnotes teaching that modern Jews are still God’s chosen—even if they reject Christ. (A lie according to the Gospel)

Cyrus Scofield's footnotes explicitly taught that modern Jews remain God’s chosen people, even if they reject Jesus Christ — which is a direct contradiction of the Gospel.

Here’s what the Bible says instead:

“Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.”
— 1 John 2:23

“If you were Abraham’s children, you would do what Abraham did… You are of your father the devil.”
— Jesus, John 8:39–44

“It is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise who are regarded as descendants.”
— Romans 9:8

“There is no longer Jew nor Greek… for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed.”
— Galatians 3:28–29

What Scofield did was heretical:
He divorced the promises of God from the person of Christ.
He gave spiritual inheritance to those who reject the Inheritor.
He rewrote redemptive history to favor the flesh over faith.

Scofield taught that ethnic Jews were still God’s chosen people outside of Christ.
But the New Testament teaches the exact opposite:
There is no covenant, no promise, and no salvation outside of Jesus Christ.

He invented the idea that God has two peoples: Israel (Jews) and the Church (Gentiles).
He claimed the promises of the Old Testament were delayed—not fulfilled in Christ and His body.
So now, even Christ-rejecting Israel is seen as “still the center of God’s plan.”
Meanwhile, the Church becomes just a temporary “parenthesis,” sidelined from prophecy and purpose.

2. HE TURNED THE CHURCH INTO A CHEERLEADER FOR ANTICHRIST ISRAEL
Modern evangelicals are taught:
“Whoever blesses Israel will be blessed”—even if that “Israel” is godless and ruled by banking elites.
“We must defend the Holy Land”—even if that means displacing Arabs, violating human rights, and starting wars.
“The Third Temple must be built”—even though Jesus is the final Temple (John 2:19–21).
So now Christians:

Send billions in aid to a Christ-rejecting government
Call military violence ‘prophetic fulfillment’
Wait for Jews to rebuild the Temple and restart animal sacrifices—after Jesus already fulfilled all that
This is literal blasphemy.
This is literal apostasy.

3. ZIONIST ELITES USED SCOFIELD’S THEOLOGY TO HIJACK U.S. FOREIGN POLICY
Once Scofield’s “Bible” infected seminaries in 1909, it was over.
Politicians got “saved” and started quoting Ezekiel and Revelation to justify Middle East wars.
Neoconservatives, Zionists, and AIPAC learned to weaponize Scofield theology to control American Christians.
The Church became a voting bloc for war—cheering on death and destruction in the name of “supporting Israel.” (Forget the fact that the Body of Christ is Israel, not the Rothschild abomination in the Middle East you call "Israel".)

And the saddest part? The misled Evangelicals think they’re doing God’s will.

4. THE EARLY CHURCH WOULD’VE OPPOSED THIS WITH BLOOD
Early Church Fathers like Polycarp, Irenaeus, and Athanasius believed the Church was the true Israel, fulfilled in Christ.
They would’ve seen:

Scofieldism as heresy
Zionist warmongering as antichrist idolatry
The annexation of Palestine as a demonic deception to prepare the world for the Beast

They would not have built temples for antichrist.
They would not have bowed to a U.N./Rothschild-funded state.
They would have fought it—with Scripture, with preaching, and if necessary, with blood.

5. SCOFIELD REPLACED CHRIST WITH THE “SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN”
Jesus said plainly:
“I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” — Revelation 2:9
Scofieldism teaches the exact opposite:
“Those who say they are Jews, even if they reject Christ, are still God’s chosen.”
That’s a doctrine of demons.

Christ is the true Seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:16).
Those in Him are the true Israel (Galatians 6:16).
There is no covenant outside of Christ. Period. The End.

But Scofield turned the Church away from the Cross and made her bow to the Star of Remphan.

Scofield didn’t just lie. He engineered a theological coup.
He turned the Body of Christ into a pawn for Zionist war.

The result?

American churches that pray for war in the Middle East
Christians who cheer for mass murder in the Middle East
A Church that rejects its own inheritance—and hands it to those who hate Christ.
90% of Christians in the U.S. not even knowing that the Body of Christ is Israel and not dirt in the Middle East.
Too misled and brainwashed to even comprehend that they're defending the wrong Israel entirely.

It's like an absolute nightmare... and we're all dreaming it together.

 

[Jesua888]

The Tribulation Isn’t What You Think — and Jesus Never Taught a Rapture Escape Plan

Scripture mostly talks about “tribulation” (thlipsis) as something believers experience. But Jesus does describe a final period of unparalleled distress — and He tells us exactly how it ends.

The problem? Modern churches have been fed Scofield’s fan fiction, not Christ’s words.

So let’s walk through what the Bible actually says.

1. Tribulation is for believers — not just “the left behind.”

“In the world you will have tribulation (θλῖψιν) — but take heart, I have overcome the world.”
— John 16:33

“We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
— Acts 14:22

Tribulation isn't some Jewish horror flick after the Church "vanishes" — it's the furnace believers have always gone through. It’s been happening since Acts — and it will culminate right before Christ returns.

2. Jesus does mention a great tribulation — but the righteous are still there.

“Then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world... and except those days be shortened, no flesh would be saved.” — Matthew 24:21–22

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days… He shall send His angels… and gather His elect.” — Matthew 24:29–31

So when does Jesus gather His people? AFTER the tribulation — not before.
No secret escape. No early flight. No Kirk Cameron 'Left Behind' Hollywood nonsense.
Left behind” isn’t a threat — it’s a promise. Just ask Noah.

3. “But what about being taken like in Noah’s day?”

People say this like it’s the reward — but Jesus says it’s the judgment.

“As it was in the days of Noah… they were eating and drinking… until the flood came and took them all away.
So shall it be when the Son of Man returns.” — Matthew 24:37–39
(Also Luke 17:26–30)

Look again — who gets taken in Noah’s day?
Not Noah. Not the righteous.
It’s the wicked who are swept away in judgment.

And Jesus says it’ll be just like that again.

The ones “taken” are the ones judged.
The ones “left” are the ones preserved.
Left behind? That’s the blessing. Just like Noah, just like Lot.

That means modern Rapture theology has Christians begging to be swept away in judgment — while calling it their “blessed hope.” That’s not faith. That’s deception — straight from the Pit. They’re under a veil… and cheering for their own destruction as the architects of this deception laugh from the shadows of Hell — watching the Church pray for its own judgment, and call it salvation.

4. Revelation confirms: the saints go through it.

“I saw the souls of those who were beheaded for their witness to Jesus… and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” — Revelation 20:4

Who are these saints?
Not “tribulation extras.”
They’re the faithful Church — those who endure.
There is ONE resurrection. (John 5:28–29, Daniel 12:2)

5. Daniel backs it up:

“There shall be a time of trouble such as never was… but at that time your people shall be delivered — everyone written in the Book.”
— Daniel 12:1–2

“Many shall be purified and made white and tried.”
— Daniel 12:10

Not beamed up — purified, tried, delivered.
Through fire, not around it.

6. There’s no escape hatch. But there is endurance — and glory.

“Here is the endurance of the saints… those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.”
— Revelation 14:12

“But he who endures to the end will be saved.” — Matthew 24:13

The Satanic Lie: “The Tribulation” is a Jewish-only horror story.
This was invented by John Nelson Darby in the 1800s and stapled into your Bible by Scofield.
They taught the Church is removed before things get rough, and the Jews get one more shot during a special 7-year tribulation.

There’s only one problem:
That’s not what Jesus taught.

Final Truth:
There is a final period of tribulation — a real, global time of distress before Christ returns. But Jesus was clear:

The righteous aren’t removed beforehand — they’re refined.

The wicked are “taken,” not the saints.

The elect are gathered after the tribulation.

There is one resurrection — at Christ’s visible return.

And every believer who endures will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father (Matthew 13:43).

Summary:

"The tribulation" is real — not just future, but already unfolding. It intensifies before Christ returns. But believers go through it — not around it.

The “rapture” happens after the tribulation (Matt 24:29–31).

The ones “taken” in Noah’s day were the wicked — not the saved.
Jesus says it will be the same way again when He returns.

The ones ‘taken’ are the damned. The Rapture, as the misled modern churches teach it, is actually a death sentence disguised as deliverance.

The righteous are left — sealed, rescued, preserved, just like Noah.

So when modern Christians start begging to be “taken”…
they’re literally praying to be swept away in judgment.
That’s not the blessed hope.
That’s spiritual suicide — with Scofield footnotes.

Scofield’s fantasy isn’t in the Bible.

Endure like Noah. Obey like Lot. Shine like the saints.

No one is raptured before it. The righteous are gathered after (Matt 24:29–31).

Saints will suffer, resist the Beast, and be resurrected to reign with Christ. (Rev 20:4)

The whole “pre-trib rapture” thing? Invented in the 1800s. Not Bible. Not Jesus. Not apostolic.

If anyone tells you we’ll be “raptured out” before things get hard, just ask:
“Where’s the verse that says that?”
(Spoiler: there isn’t one.)

The Cross wasn’t an escape plan — it was a war path.
Jesus doesn’t rapture cowards.
He refines warriors.

Not one apostle taught a pre-tribulation rapture.
Not one early Church father believed Christians would disappear before the time of trial.
There is zero historical record of any secret escape doctrine in the first 1800 years of Christianity.

Paul didn’t teach it.
Peter didn’t teach it.
John — the one who saw Revelation — didn’t teach it.

Irenaeus didn’t preach it.
Polycarp didn’t preach it.
Ignatius didn’t preach it.

Jesus didn’t teach it.

So where did it come from?

John Nelson Darby, 1830s.
Scofield Bible, 1909.
Then Hollywood — and Satan’s global elite minions — ran with it.
They sold Christians a false escape hatch — and called it “the Blessed Hope.”

The real Church never believed in a “left behind” evacuation plan.
That idea didn’t come from the Bible.

So ask yourself:
If the apostles didn’t preach it…
If the early Church never taught it…
If Jesus never mentioned it…

Then who did?

Because deception this deep doesn’t come from ignorance — it comes from below.

It’s so twisted, so dark, so psychotic,
it could only come from the pit itself.

Like an evil man sweetly coaxing a group of children
to dance into a barn full of starving lions —
and calling it “blessed hope".

What they’ve done to the Church since 1909 is so twisted,
so diabolical,
it couldn’t have come from man.

This deception bears the fingerprints of the Dragon himself.
Only the enemy of Christ could orchestrate something so brilliant,
so blasphemous —
and sell it as hope.

"The Cross wasn’t an escape plan — it was a war path.
Jesus doesn’t rapture cowards.
He refines warriors. ..."

THANK YOU for all the evidence; it is so clear : )

 

[Jesua888]

How can the man of sin be revealed if the restrainer is not taken out of the way? He can't. Who is the restrainer?

2Th 2:6 And YOU KNOW WHAT IS RESTRAINING HIM NOW SO THAT HE MAY BE REVEALED IN HIS TIME.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only HE WHO NOW RESTRAINS IT WILL DO SO UNTIL HE IS OUT OF THE WAY.
2Th 2:8 And THEN THE LAWLESS ONE WILL BE REVEALED, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. (ESV)

If the Restrainer is Holy Spirit, and Holy Spirit is within us who take Jesus as our Saviour, and is "out of the way", then does this infer that we will be without our Holy Spirit, or perhaps this infers that Jesus will return at this time?

 

[Rhema]

Now to the verse you quoted:
“Pray that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things…” (Luke 21:36)

The word “escape” here is not rapture.
It’s the Greek word ekphygē — it simply means to flee, avoid, or be spared through endurance or protection.
It’s used all over the New Testament in non-rapture contexts — like escaping temptation, judgment, or trials.

It can also mean to be free from (LINK - A.3.d).

I'm reminded of the Jews who were wise enough (counted worthy?) to flee Nazi Germany and escape all those things that the ones who stayed (hoping for the best) suffered into death.

But the Jews had to get themselves out. No Scotty around to beam them up.

Best Regards,
Rhema

 

[Jesua888]

They fed you this Scofieldian fantasy (found no where in the Bible) to warp your mind and control you....

1. Scofield’s Zionist Rapture Lie: A Two-Phase Scam
Scofield’s Bible introduced a new framework that split the return of Christ into two events:
A secret rapture (Jesus comes halfway for the Church)
A later Second Coming (Jesus comes all the way down for Israel)

This is nowhere in Scripture. Jesus never teaches two returns. It was invented to:
Create a false hope of escape (pre-trib rapture)
Divide God’s people into two groups (ethnic Israel vs. Church)
Postpone Christ’s reign to a future millennium rather than recognize that He is King now

This idea taught Christians they’d be rescued before hardship — not refined through it.

2. The “Second-Chance Tribulation” Made the Church Spiritually Passive
Scofield’s system implied:
If you miss the rapture, don’t worry — you can still become a “tribulation saint”
God isn’t done with Israel — the Church is just a “pause” in His plan
All the real fireworks happen after we’re gone

This gutted urgency, obedience, and identity from the Church:
No need to stand firm through tribulation — just disappear before it
No need to confront evil — “we’ll be outta here”
No need to be the Kingdom now — that’s for later Jews

But the New Testament doesn’t teach any of that. It teaches that tribulation is part of the normal Christian life — not something we get zapped out of.

3. Jesus Said the Opposite

Jesus said:
“In this world you will have tribulation… but take heart, I have overcome the world.” (John 16:33)

He never said: “Don’t worry, you’ll vanish before it gets bad.”

He did say:
“After the tribulation of those days… then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man… and He will gather His elect.” (Matthew 24:29–31)

He warned us to endure — not escape:

“He who endures to the end will be saved.” (Matthew 24:13)

That’s what real discipleship looks like. That’s what the apostles taught. That’s what the early Church died for.


4. The Church Is Israel — There Is No “Plan B”
Scofield cut the Bible in half and created two peoples of God — which the Bible never does. He said:
God has one plan for the Jews (earthly kingdom)
And a separate one for the Church (heaven)

But Scripture says the opposite:
The Church is the Israel of God (Galatians 6:16)
Gentiles are grafted in to the one olive tree (Romans 11)
There is no Jew or Greek, but all are one in Christ (Galatians 3:28)
The promises made to Abraham’s seed are fulfilled in Christ alone (Galatians 3:16)

There is no “Plan B” for ethnic Jews. There is only Christ — and anyone, Jew or Gentile, who rejects Him, is cut off.
The Church hasn’t replaced Israel — the Church is Israel, fulfilled and reborn through Jesus, the true Seed of Abraham.


5. The “Rapture” Doctrine Makes Jesus a Liar
If the righteous are removed first, then Jesus lied — because He said:

“As it was in the days of Noah… the flood came and took them all away… so shall it be when the Son of Man comes. One will be taken, and the other left.” (Matthew 24:37–41)

Who was taken in Noah’s day? The wicked.
Who was left behind? The righteous.

Jesus doesn’t contradict Himself. The ones “taken” are taken in judgment — not raptured to heaven.
The rapture doctrine flips His warning upside down.

Summary: Scofield’s Rapture Doctrine Did 3 Things:

1. Separated the Church from her Jewish roots — and redefined Israel as unbelievers

2. Promised escape instead of perseverance — turning faith into fantasy

3. Postponed Christ’s Kingdom — denying His reign now, through His body

Truth:
Jesus returns once
At the end
To rescue the righteous, judge the wicked, and reign forever

There is no secret rapture.
There is no second plan for ethnic Israel.
The Church is Israel.
And tribulation is not wrath — it’s our refining.

Thats how we finally got here, to the unbelievable nightmare we're living in today... like a sci-fi horror film.

^ This image perfectly captures what Scofield Dispensationalism ultimately produced:
a war-mongering, Zionist-worshipping church that cheers for nuclear fire in the name of prophecy —
completely clueless to the fact that the Body of Christ is Israel.

Let’s get real. The apostles would’ve rebuked these men as heretics and traitors.
The early Church Fathers would’ve called this idolatry, warmongering, and antichrist deception.

So how did we go from humble Christians awaiting the Kingdom of God to this pack of raving Scofield cultists waving Rothschild-Israeli flags donning the demonic Star of Remphan and begging for Armageddon? It’s not Christianity anymore — it’s prophetic delusion wrapped in Zionist idolatry.

HOW SCOFIELD TURNED THE CHURCH INTO A ZIONIST WAR MACHINE

1. HE REWROTE THE BIBLE USING ZIONIST FOOTNOTES
Scofield wasn’t a scholar. He was a convicted felon, funded by Zionist agents like Samuel Untermeyer to promote a Zionist propaganda Bible.
He added footnotes teaching that modern Jews are still God’s chosen—even if they reject Christ. (A lie according to the Gospel)

Cyrus Scofield's footnotes explicitly taught that modern Jews remain God’s chosen people, even if they reject Jesus Christ — which is a direct contradiction of the Gospel.

Here’s what the Bible says instead:

“Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.”
— 1 John 2:23

“If you were Abraham’s children, you would do what Abraham did… You are of your father the devil.”
— Jesus, John 8:39–44

“It is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise who are regarded as descendants.”
— Romans 9:8

“There is no longer Jew nor Greek… for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed.”
— Galatians 3:28–29

What Scofield did was heretical:
He divorced the promises of God from the person of Christ.
He gave spiritual inheritance to those who reject the Inheritor.
He rewrote redemptive history to favor the flesh over faith.

Scofield taught that ethnic Jews were still God’s chosen people outside of Christ.
But the New Testament teaches the exact opposite:
There is no covenant, no promise, and no salvation outside of Jesus Christ.

He invented the idea that God has two peoples: Israel (Jews) and the Church (Gentiles).
He claimed the promises of the Old Testament were delayed—not fulfilled in Christ and His body.
So now, even Christ-rejecting Israel is seen as “still the center of God’s plan.”
Meanwhile, the Church becomes just a temporary “parenthesis,” sidelined from prophecy and purpose.

2. HE TURNED THE CHURCH INTO A CHEERLEADER FOR ANTICHRIST ISRAEL
Modern evangelicals are taught:
“Whoever blesses Israel will be blessed”—even if that “Israel” is godless and ruled by banking elites.
“We must defend the Holy Land”—even if that means displacing Arabs, violating human rights, and starting wars.
“The Third Temple must be built”—even though Jesus is the final Temple (John 2:19–21).
So now Christians:

Send billions in aid to a Christ-rejecting government
Call military violence ‘prophetic fulfillment’
Wait for Jews to rebuild the Temple and restart animal sacrifices—after Jesus already fulfilled all that
This is literal blasphemy.
This is literal apostasy.

3. ZIONIST ELITES USED SCOFIELD’S THEOLOGY TO HIJACK U.S. FOREIGN POLICY
Once Scofield’s “Bible” infected seminaries in 1909, it was over.
Politicians got “saved” and started quoting Ezekiel and Revelation to justify Middle East wars.
Neoconservatives, Zionists, and AIPAC learned to weaponize Scofield theology to control American Christians.
The Church became a voting bloc for war—cheering on death and destruction in the name of “supporting Israel.” (Forget the fact that the Body of Christ is Israel, not the Rothschild abomination in the Middle East you call "Israel".)

And the saddest part? The misled Evangelicals think they’re doing God’s will.

4. THE EARLY CHURCH WOULD’VE OPPOSED THIS WITH BLOOD
Early Church Fathers like Polycarp, Irenaeus, and Athanasius believed the Church was the true Israel, fulfilled in Christ.
They would’ve seen:

Scofieldism as heresy
Zionist warmongering as antichrist idolatry
The annexation of Palestine as a demonic deception to prepare the world for the Beast

They would not have built temples for antichrist.
They would not have bowed to a U.N./Rothschild-funded state.
They would have fought it—with Scripture, with preaching, and if necessary, with blood.

5. SCOFIELD REPLACED CHRIST WITH THE “SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN”
Jesus said plainly:
“I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” — Revelation 2:9
Scofieldism teaches the exact opposite:
“Those who say they are Jews, even if they reject Christ, are still God’s chosen.”
That’s a doctrine of demons.

Christ is the true Seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:16).
Those in Him are the true Israel (Galatians 6:16).
There is no covenant outside of Christ. Period. The End.

But Scofield turned the Church away from the Cross and made her bow to the Star of Remphan.

Scofield didn’t just lie. He engineered a theological coup.
He turned the Body of Christ into a pawn for Zionist war.

The result?

American churches that pray for war in the Middle East
Christians who cheer for mass murder in the Middle East
A Church that rejects its own inheritance—and hands it to those who hate Christ.
90% of Christians in the U.S. not even knowing that the Body of Christ is Israel and not dirt in the Middle East.
Too misled and brainwashed to even comprehend that they're defending the wrong Israel entirely.

It's like an absolute nightmare... and we're all dreaming it together.

THANK YOU so much, this is vital information and clears up so much mis-understanding : )

 

[Curtis]

If the Restrainer is Holy Spirit, and Holy Spirit is within us who take Jesus as our Saviour, and is "out of the way", then does this infer that we will be without our Holy Spirit, or perhaps this infers that Jesus will return at this time?

Jesus promised that when Holy Spirit comes he will never leave you forever. Jesus gave his Church authority over all the power of our enemy which is the devil and all fallen angels. The restrainer is the Church. The Church must be removed from this earth before the man of sin can be revealed.

Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

 

[Dave M]

Jesus promised that when Holy Spirit comes he will never leave you forever. Jesus gave his Church authority over all the power of our enemy which is the devil and all fallen angels. The restrainer is the Church. The Church must be removed from this earth before the man of sin can be revealed.

if that is the case the question is who are these in REV 13, to me that is clearly the church going through the tribulation. The church has the Holy spirit. The Bible says nothing about when they came to be believers, it does not say before or during the tribulation, but if they would not live for Jesus before the tribulations would they die for him during the tribulation . The only reasonable conclusion is the church is still hear and has the power of the holy spirit to die for Christ.

who else could the saints be if not part of the church?

Revelation 13:7​

Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation,

 

[Curtis]

if that is the case the question is who are these in REV 13, to me that is clearly the church going through the tribulation. The church has the Holy spirit. The Bible says nothing about when they came to be believers, it does not say before or during the tribulation, but if they would not live for Jesus before the tribulations would they die for him during the tribulation . The only reasonable conclusion is the church is still hear and has the power of the holy spirit to die for Christ.

who else could the saints be if not part of the church?

Revelation 13:7​

Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation,

Many will come to faith during the great tribulation, and a lot of them will die for not worshipping the beast and or receiving his mark. These people are saints even though they came to faith after the rapture. These people are living saints who were not killed as they survived the tribulation period. These living saints will be the ones who will populate the1000 year of Christ after Jesus kills all the wicked in his second coming. All the believers who came to faith during great tribulation and were killed will be resurrected (not raptured) to rein with Christ for 1000 years.

 

[Dave M]

Many will come to faith during the great tribulation, and a lot of them will die for not worshipping the beast and or receiving his mark. These people are saints even though they came to faith after the rapture. These people are living saints who were not killed as they survived the tribulation period. These living saints will be the ones who will populate the1000 year of Christ after Jesus kills all the wicked in his second coming. All the believers who came to faith during great tribulation and were killed will be resurrected (not raptured) to rein with Christ for 1000 years.

so these that are coming to faith during the tribulation wear is that in the Bible, because I read no one repents during the tribulation

Revelation 9:20-21
But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk.

How does anyone come to faith with out the Holy spirit? my understanding it not possible,

 

[Curtis]

so these that are coming to faith during the tribulation wear is that in the Bible, because I read no one repents during the tribulation

Revelation 9:20-21
But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk.

How does anyone come to faith with out the Holy spirit? my understanding it not possible,

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

The 144,000 were not believers before the tribulation, only during the great tribulation. They were sealed, so they were born again. Can't get born again without the Holy Spirit.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Most definitely, people will be saved during the Great Tribulation.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Jesus promised that when Holy Spirit comes he will never leave you forever. Jesus gave his Church authority over all the power of our enemy which is the devil and all fallen angels. The restrainer is the Church. The Church must be removed from this earth before the man of sin can be revealed.

Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

You’ve built your logic on a foundation Scofield handed you — not Scripture.

1. Nowhere in Scripture is the Holy Spirit called “the Restrainer.”
You’re inserting that. 2 Thessalonians 2 doesn’t name the Restrainer — and the early Church didn’t interpret it as the Holy Spirit or the Church being “removed.” In fact, the only thing clearly stated is that the man of sin will be revealed after the restrainer is taken out of the way — not that the Church is raptured.

2. Jesus never said the Church would be removed before the Antichrist is revealed.
In fact, He said the exact opposite.

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you… and many will fall away…” — Matthew 24:9–10
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days… he will gather his elect…” — Matthew 24:29–31

Where’s the rapture escape there? It’s not. You’re inserting it.

3. The idea that “the Church must be removed for the Antichrist to rise” isn’t biblical — it’s Scofieldian.

Paul said:
“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed.” — 2 Thessalonians 2:3

Not a word about the Church being removed. Quite the opposite — the Church is still here warning, suffering, and enduring when the man of sin is revealed.

4. The Holy Spirit isn’t removed — but neither is the Church.
“Lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” — Matthew 28:20
That promise doesn’t expire at the “rapture.” The Holy Spirit isn’t leaving. Jesus isn’t leaving. We’re not leaving.

Bottom line:
This whole “Restrainer = Holy Spirit = Church = Rapture” formula isn’t from the Bible — it’s from a chain of assumptions made by a 19th-century Zionist-funded lawyer with a prison record and an agenda.

Start with the words of Christ. End with the words of Christ.
Not Scofield. Not Darby. Not fan fiction.

 

[Curtis]

so these that are coming to faith during the tribulation wear is that in the Bible

Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
Rev 7:10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"
Rev 7:11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
Rev 7:12 saying: "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom, Thanksgiving and honor and power and might, Be to our God forever and ever. Amen."
Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?"
Rev 7:14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

One of the greatest revivals in the world will happen during the great tribulation.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

If the Restrainer is Holy Spirit, and Holy Spirit is within us who take Jesus as our Saviour, and is "out of the way", then does this infer that we will be without our Holy Spirit, or perhaps this infers that Jesus will return at this time?

Great question — and you’re not alone in wondering about this.
What you're wrestling with is a real tension: If the Holy Spirit is the Restrainer, and He lives in us, how could He be “taken out of the way”? That’s the kind of question that deserves more than a surface-level answer — it deserves truth rooted in Scripture and history.

The early Church Fathers did not teach that the Holy Spirit or the Church would be “removed” before the Antichrist is revealed. That idea is purely modern, born out of Scofield/Darby’s dispensationalism in the 1800s.

In fact, early Christians — men like Tertullian, Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Lactantius, and even glimpses from Polycarp’s disciples like Irenaeus — believed that the Restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2 referred to some form of civil order, government, or empire (especially Rome), which would delay the rise of the final lawless one.

Once that order collapses, and anarchy reigns, the Antichrist steps in with the false promise of peace, unity, and salvation — a satanic counterfeit to the return of Christ.

“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed…” — 2 Thessalonians 2:3

The early Church never taught a “rapture before Antichrist.”
That’s a modern lie, born in the 1800s.
What the early saints actually taught — backed by the apostles and the words of Christ — was this:

The Church will go through tribulation.
The Antichrist will rise during a time of global collapse.
And Christ will destroy him at His visible return — not in a secret escape plan.

Irenaeus (c. 180 AD), disciple of Polycarp (who walked with the apostle John), wrote:
“This Antichrist shall devastate all things… and he shall reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord shall come from heaven in the clouds… and cast him into the lake of fire.” (Against Heresies, Book V)

Tertullian (c. 200 AD) identified the Restrainer as the Roman Empire — not the Holy Spirit or the Church:
“What obstacle is there but the Roman state, the falling away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce Antichrist upon [its] own ruins?” (Apology, Chapter 32)

In other words, once global governments collapse —
once order turns into chaos, economies fail, and nations fall —
that’s when the man of lawlessness steps forward.
He promises peace, unity, and salvation — a false messiah rising from the ashes of fallen empires.

Sound familiar?
$40 trillion in U.S. debt
Corrupt global elites now flirting with WWIII
Mass apostasy in the Church (they're so lost they don't even know who, or what Israel is)
Total moral collapse
And now we see Christians begging for war,
waving Zionist flags and proudly bearing a star that God Himself called an abomination —
the Star of Remphan, a symbol of rebellion carried by apostate Israel in the wilderness.

“You took up the tent of Moloch,
and the star of your god Remphan,
the images that you made to worship;
and I will send you into exile…”
— Acts 7:43 (quoting Amos 5:26)

That star — falsely called “David’s” — has nothing to do with David, and everything to do with rebellion.
It was a pagan sigil, denounced by the prophets and condemned in the New Testament.
And now it’s being waved in pulpits.
Hung in sanctuaries.
Tattooed on flesh.

While Christians cry out for bombs — not repentance.
For war — not Christ.
For Remphan — not the cross.

This is the very falling away Paul warned about.

Jesus never said we'd vanish. He said:
“In this world you will have tribulation… but take heart, I have overcome the world.” — John 16:33
“He who endures to the end shall be saved.” — Matthew 24:13
“After the tribulation of those days… then He will gather His elect.” — Matthew 24:29–31

The early Church believed in resistance, not removal.
They expected persecution. They stood firm in chaos.
They called the Antichrist what he is — a deceiver who rises when the restraining force of civil order collapses.

The Restrainer is not the Holy Spirit. It’s not the Church.
It is the last vestiges of law, order, and human restraint.
When those fall — the Beast rises.

So no — the Church isn’t disappearing.
She’s being refined.
And she will stand against the man of sin until the real King comes — not in secret, but in glory.

“The Lord Jesus shall consume [him] with the breath of His mouth, and destroy [him] by the brightness of His coming.” — 2 Thess. 2:8

That’s the teaching of Paul.
That’s the teaching of Irenaeus.
That’s the faith of the martyrs.

Not escape. Endurance.
Not removal. Victory.
Not Scofield. Christ.

And here's the terrifying and sobering reality behind it all.

The Synagogue of Satan (Revelation 2:9, 3:9) — those who claim to be God's people but reject His Son, those who twist prophecy to serve power, and those who operate in secret allegiances with fallen principalities — they absolutely want global collapse.

Why?

Because collapse is the gateway for their messiah — the Antichrist.

Here’s the breakdown:

1. They want governments to fall
Civil order, national sovereignty, and independent economies are obstacles to the Beast system
When these collapse, people cry out for order, for a savior, for a leader who can fix everything
That’s when the Antichrist emerges:

“By peace he shall destroy many…” — Daniel 8:25

2. They worship the coming “man of sin” — whether knowingly or not
To them, he will be:
The unifier of nations
The one who brings false peace to the Middle East
The one who helps build the Third Temple
The one who deceives even the elect, if possible (Matthew 24:24)

They call him “Messiah.”
But Scripture calls him the Beast, the son of perdition, the Antichrist.

3. The Synagogue of Satan twists prophecy to usher in the Antichrist — not to wait for Christ.
They want to:
Rebuild a temple Christ already fulfilled (John 2:19–21)
Reinstate blood sacrifices Christ already ended (Hebrews 10:10)
Set up a throne where God’s presence no longer dwells

This isn’t “fulfilling prophecy.”
It’s rebellion wrapped in ritual.

And here's the kicker:
“And the dragon gave him his power, and his throne, and great authority.” — Revelation 13:2

The Antichrist doesn’t rise by accident.
He is empowered by Satan — and welcomed by those who serve him.
And when the nations crumble, the synagogue that serves the Beast will offer him to the world as a savior.

Just like they once cried “We have no king but Caesar”
—they will cry again, “We have no king but the Beast.”

So yes — the Synagogue of Satan wants the collapse.
Because chaos is their altar.
And their long-awaited false king stands just behind the curtain —
waiting for the world to beg for chains.

And the tragic irony?
Millions of misled Christian evangelicals are helping make it happen —
arming and weaponizing the Beast, thinking they’re fulfilling God’s will…
but in truth, they’re building a throne for the enemy of Christ.

And make absolutely no mistake about this:
If Paul, Peter, James and John were the joint chiefs of staff at the Pentagon —
and the early Church Fathers like Tertullian, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Hippolytus, and Lactantius were their generals —
they would have never allowed the Rothschild-backed annexation of Palestine in 1948.

They would have recognized it as a direct affront to God,
an open rebellion against Christ,
and a satanic counterfeit of biblical prophecy — engineered by those who deny the Son yet claim the covenant.

And they would have acted.
Not passively.
Not politically.
They would have stood in the way —
with force if necessary — to defend the true meaning of Israel and prevent blasphemy from planting its flag in the name of God.

They would not have blessed that false state.
They would not have allowed the holy ground to be seized by those who serve another master.
They would have fought — for truth, for Christ, and for the Kingdom that is not of this world.

They would have taken over every radio tower and television signal on Earth,
thundering the truth that the Church — the Body of Christ — is Israel,
and that these billionaire Khazar converts and rebels who reject the Son
are none other than the Synagogue of Satan the Scriptures warned us about.

Even Christians from 1690 would’ve held the true biblical position.
If they saw what’s happening today, they wouldn’t even believe it.

If they stepped out of a time machine and walked into a modern Evangelical church —
and saw white and blue flags flying proudly with the demonic sigil of Remphan glowing above the stage —
they would be overcome with shock and horror.

They’d scream:
“MY GOD, HELP US! HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?!”

And then someone would hand them a free Scofield Reference Bible from 1909 —
And as they flipped through the footnotes, they would see it: the promises God made to His people ripped away from Jesus Christ… and handed to a group that openly rejects Him.

They would fall to their knees in tears — not just because the Church had been hijacked, but because it had been tricked into breaking covenant with the Savior… and forming a new one with the enemies of the Cross.
And now, from pulpits and stages, the Church waves their flag in God’s name.

And unless the Church repents, she won’t just be deceived by the Beast — she’ll help crown him.

 

[Curtis]

Who are the twenty-four elders in Revelation 4?

Rev 4:4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.

 

[Dave M]

Rev 7:14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

it says they come out of tribulation, it does not say they were saved during the tribulation they already had white robes to me meaning they were all ready saved but now they have washed them clean. either way is a little speculation, but I do not believe a non believer has a rob to begin with to wash clean, these are my thoughts though.

For sure that scripture says nothing about when they got saved, that you are speculating imo

 

[Dave M]

if the church is the restrainer they have done a terrible job through history