I am not part of the little flock, most were on earth in Jesus' day. Few are on earth now. You cannot deny Luke 22:29-30--the covenant of those emblems is to those who will sit on thrones.
The last supper
- Thread starter Keithw
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Dear Keithw,
While you are stuck on Luke 22:29-30, and because of this you/JW make connections that were not in place until revealed through the Revelation given to the Apostle John, which was given many years later. When presented with 1 Corinthians 11:25-29 you answer that they had pre-cognition since there was no Scriptural support until many years later through Revelation of the 144,000 to begin with of who you/JW say can or cannot participate in Communion.
Remember Scripture does not contradict itself, so you/JW must be incorrect in who could participate in Communion according to Luke 22:29-30, because the church at Corinth clearly were doing so, with no evidence of pre-cognition or teaching to the contrary for any member of the church that was not of the little flock. You must keep in mind that the Epistle was directed to not only the Church at Corinth, but also to all in every place that call on the name of Jesus Christ which was allowing to be guided in behavior/actions for Communion by his very words.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><
Greetings,
may i ask if we can look at the 'point' about how many times does the Bible tell us that we should partake of 'communion'?
It has been put forth that it is only once a year, at Passover. It has also been suggested that it is as often as we meet. What exactly does the Bible say.
Do the passages about 'as often...' actually state anything about how often that might be? We read that 'as often as you partake... ' [my paraphrase] but that does not specifically say 'often to do so' ?
Bless you all ....><>
Jesus is the Lord
may i ask if we can look at the 'point' about how many times does the Bible tell us that we should partake of 'communion'?
It has been put forth that it is only once a year, at Passover. It has also been suggested that it is as often as we meet. What exactly does the Bible say.
Do the passages about 'as often...' actually state anything about how often that might be? We read that 'as often as you partake... ' [my paraphrase] but that does not specifically say 'often to do so' ?
Bless you all ....><>
Jesus is the Lord
Waggles
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We are under liberty.
Therefore it is a matter of conscience as to how often a church service celebrates holy communion.
My church remembers our Lord's death and resurrection once a week, but I have as a visitor been to other churches where they do this once a month.
We use cracker biscuit and grape juice but others enjoy wafer bread and red wine.
Personally I believe it is better to remember the sacrifice and work of our Lord and God Jesus who died for us sinners more often than not.
Reading 1Corinthians 11 gives a pretty strong indication that "doing" the Lord's supper was weekly
1Cor 11:18 For first, when ye come together in church, I hear divisions exist among you; and I partly believe it.
1Co 11:20 When therefore ye come together in meeting, it is not possible to eat the Lord’s supper:
21 for in eating each taketh his own supper before; and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
1Cor 11:24 and when he gave thanks he brake it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as oft as ye eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye proclaim the death of the Lord till he come.
1Cor 11:33 So then, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, wait one for another.
34 If any is hungry, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto judgment. And the rest will I set in order whenever I come.
and this is also corroborated in Acts 20:7
And upon the first day of the week, when we were gathered to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and prolonged his speech until midnight.
Waggles
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That is because we are under liberty and not the Law.
Thus we have freedom to do what we want.
But scripture does indicate that the NT church celebrated holy communion at their meetings.
Luke knew exactly who they were-Luke 12:32)--Few on this earth do today obviously. How many followers do you think there were back then, possibly all were members of the little flock.
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Dear @Keithw
Luke was a Greek physician who never even met the Lord!!! He should have been accorded as one of the greatest Historians of ancient times, but because of the religious context he has always been denigrated as not being worthy of being noted as a Historian of note. Yet historians both secular and religious continue to use his writings to archeological digs because of his accuracy. So, his writings were done by interviewing the actual witness' of the events he wrote about in the Gospel of Luke and not like his writings in the Book of Acts, which in part he did live and had personal experiences of actually happening.
Now to deal with your statement. All you have is conjecture and supposition to support your claims. So, to say that Luke knew who they were, without any evidence in scripture to support your claim, makes it at best a man-made statement to support a man-made concept. Sadly, this is how false doctrines start, and continue to be used as if there is scriptural certainty to them, when clearly there is none to be found. Leading many astray, because it saves them having to pray, study the Scriptures to know with a certainty that what is being told them is true according to God Word, and not man's.
With you/JW, it is like you made the Doctrine, then searched scripture to make it true. When the Word of God speaks to truth it provides us through the Holy Spirit an understanding to what is being communicated therein. As in 1 Corinthians 11:25-29 I need add nothing in or take anything out of Scripture to know what is being talked about. The context is clearly understood and does not contradict any other Scripture. Unless, as I've said, only if one adds to it or takes away from it does it then lack clear understanding.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><
In your own reasoning--John 17:3--A prayer to the Father from Jesus-- This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus-- Yet you wont believe Jesus who is 100% clear--The FATHER is the only true God and the only true God sent another named Jesus.-- Yet the ones who do actually believe Jesus you say are wrong.
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Dear Keithw,
I'm not here posting as a way to dance with you through the Scriptures so that you can justify what you/JW believe in. It was solely concerning Communion. You are welcome to dance with others on another site, but not here on Talk Jesus.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><
Waggles
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If Jesus Christ is not GOD not YAHWEH - then there is no point to taking holy communion and remembering the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus - there is no atonement for our sins - no reconciling humans to GOD.
For no man or angel can die and take the sins of the world upon his himself in order to pay the penalty of spiritual death due to our estrangement and sin.
No man or angel can put an end to the first Covenant made between the children of Israel and GOD. No man bring in a new Covenant between humans and GOD.
We take communion to remember the sacrifice - the high price paid - by Jesus to our atonement for our sins and to bring in a new living way by the indwelling Holy Spirit.
The OT clearly identifies Yeshua (Jesus) as being YAHWEH and the Son of man.
John 17:8 because the words which thou gavest me I have given to them; and they received them, and truly knew that I came forth from thee, and they believed that THOU didst send me.
John 17:20 “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,
21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.
Even the Jews and Rabbis of the OT understood that the scriptures often referred to the appearance of two YAHWEH that at times spoke to each other.
The communion is simple and clear-Luke 22:30--a covenant made to those who will sit on thrones-- 1 Cor 11:27-shows some are unworthy to partake. -Fact--the little flock= the anointed 144,000 will sit on thrones--The unworthy then is the great crowd, these will not sit on thrones. Its you who will not believe truth.
God sent Jesus-justice = A perfect man sinned and lost a good standing for mortals with God--A perfect man died and paid the wages of sin he did not owe= the ransom sacrifice-God set it up this way. --You see --all of Gods ways are justice-Deut 32:4-- No the Jews did not believe as you say--The Hebrew OT is clear--YHWH said to my Lord(Jesus) -proving 100% Jesus is not YHWH. As well they knew 100% the Messiah has a God-Psalm 45:7-- They did not bow in worship to one who has a God as your bibles say. They bowed in Obeisance to Gods appointed king.
Another proof Jesus is not YHWH-- 1Chron 16:31--YHWH becomes king)--Jesus had to be appointed as king of Gods kingdom( Dan 7:13-15), if he were YHWH he already would have been king.
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Dear Keithw,
Fact: You were only able to answer with unsubstantiated comment and a taken out context reference above of 1 Corinthians 11:27. Which is what you/JW do isn't it. No question, but statement. Because if you had added all the verses that I quoted to you, which were 1 Corinthians 11:25-29 you would see exactly what is meant by v27 and the error of the doctrine that you/JW hold to as it pertains to Communion. This is sad for what you would deny to others, even yourself from remembering in communion as Jesus would want from all who call Him Lord and Savior!
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
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Gen 1:1; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
God created everything.
John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
Col 1:15; He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Jesus created everything.
Heb 1:8; But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
The Father calls Jesus ( the Son ) God.
Prov 30:4; Who has ascended into heaven and descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has wrapped the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name or His son's name? Surely you know!
What year did Satan get kicked out of heaven? What year was Jesus born as a human? How old was Jesus when he said this? How many humans were alive when Satan rebelled against God?
Luke 10:18; And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
[NASB] Titus 2:13; looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
Some Bibles do not have the comma, but that's OK.... who is going to appear at Jesus's next appearance? The Father? The Father and the Son, or just the Son ( who would have to be God in order for this verse to be correct )
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What nonsense is this?? !!
"A perfect man" where is that in scripture?
Both the Old Testament and the New Testament testify that Jesus is God and from God and one with the Father.
NO man can die to take upon himself the sins of the world.
No man's death can make null and void the previous Covenant where YAHWEH was the husband and married to Israel.
Romans 7:1-6 explains why Jesus had to die in order to divorce himself from the old Covenant of the Law of Moses.
Romans 7:2 For the woman under a husband is bound by law to the living husband; but if the husband should die, she is discharged from the law of the husband.
Waggles
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You need to read your OT much better and learn what scripture actually teaches
Genesis 19:24 Yahweh rained down from heaven upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh.
25 And he overthrew those cities and the whole plain, and the inhabitants of the cities and the vegetation of the ground.
Note the mention here of two YAHWEH, one in heaven who sends judgment upon Sodom and Gomorrah at the bidding of the YAHWEH on earth. This gives significant evidence for more than one person in the Godhead.
Jehovah Witnesses counter with the argument that by making Jesus Jehovah, I am asserting the untruth that Jesus is the Father.
I suggest they listen or read more carefully: I am not asserting Jesus is the Father, but that at least two Persons in the Godhead are each called Jehovah in Scripture, and Jesus is clearly one of them. - notes from Jerome Smith
Jesus is often referred to as the angel of Yahweh, the word of God, the name of Yahweh
Judges 6:11 The angel of Yahweh came and sat under the oak that was at Ophrah that belonged to Jehoash the Abiezrite; and Gideon his son was threshing wheat in the winepress to hide it from the Midianites.
6:14 And Yahweh turned to him and said, "Go in this your strength, and you will deliver Israel from the palm of Midian. Did I not send you?"
6:16 And Yahweh said to him, "But I will be with you, and you will defeat Midian as if they are one man."
6:20 The angel of God said to him, "Take the meat and the unleavened cakes and put them on this rock; pour the broth over it." And he did so.
Jdg 6:21 Then the angel of Yahweh reached out the tip of the staff that was in his hand, and he touched the meat and the unleavened cakes; and fire went up from the rock and consumed the meat and the unleavened cakes.
And the angel of Yahweh went from his sight.
Go back and reread the story of the burning bush and Moses.
Waggles
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Jesus is our atonement. This is only possible because he is God who gave his life in exchange for our penalty of spiritual death.
That is how we are redeemed and justified.
Hebrews 1:1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
That is how we are redeemed and justified.
Hebrews 1:1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
The mistake is one believing they will go to heaven to sit on thrones. The bible is clear its the 144,000 who will, no one else.
God is the only power source. He gets all credit as Jesus( Gods master worker) shows at Prov 8--- Jesus only does the Fathers will that is why both are mentioned as coming. Your Heb 1:8 is erred, just like your John 1:1 is as well.
