Can you make an argument as to why Christian leaders should or shouldn't engage in politics?

[Rhema]

First, how is the body of Christ to bring about change in the world?

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

(Matthew 28:18-20 KJV)​

Secondly, how is the body of Christ to respond to the needs of the world?

How is that any different from the first question?

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be μάρτυς unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.​

(Acts 1:8 KJV)​

μάρτυς - it doesn't mean "witnesses".

If you've received power ... use it.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Politics is determining ...
Politics is determining ...
Politics is determining ...
Politics is determining ...
Politics is determining ...
Politics is determining ...
Politics is determining ...

Politics is determining how to resolve conflicts between people who have different points of view.

The Pope chose to encourage the Emperor to pronounce an edict of death upon Martin Luther.
(And Martin Luther did his own batsht crazy stuff.)

Rhema

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to smack the others upside the head....

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

(Matthew 28:18-20 KJV)​

How is that any different from the first question?

Great question, thanks for asking.

So they are indeed very similar, with just a slight bit of difference on the emphasis.

One being about bringing about change and the other meeting the need.
Sorry for not doing a good job of clarifying.

Concerning bringing about change, I'm speaking of making disciples of Jesus.
When I speak of meeting the needs, I'm talking about feeding the poor, clothing the sick. etc.

(1) Making disciples, the first point has to do with the Great Commission, changing the world through changing people (making disciples),
(2) Meeting the needs has to do with serving, we serve everyone, not just believers. The serving relates to what Jesus says to the sheep (I was hungry and you fed me).

So that is the difference.

 

[Rhema]

So that is the difference.

Well... I could use some help fixing my toilet... (seriously).

Rhema

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Well... I could use some help fixing my toilet... (seriously).

Rhema

Call a plumber. Lol

 

[Rhema]

Call a plumber. Lol

For if a brother or a sister bee naked and destitute of daily foode, And one of you say vnto them, Depart in peace: warme your selues, and fil your bellies, and call a plumber, notwithstading ye giue them not those things which are needefull to the body, what helpeth it?​

(James 2:15-16 Geneva)​

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

For if a brother or a sister bee naked and destitute of daily foode, And one of you say vnto them, Depart in peace: warme your selues, and fil your bellies, and call a plumber, notwithstading ye giue them not those things which are needefull to the body, what helpeth it?​

(James 2:15-16 Geneva)​

Are you telling me you want me to come to Pennsylvania from Maryland to fix your toilet?
Plumbing is not my specialty, I would probably make it worst, loll.

Here is a list of Plumbers in PA, plumbers in Pennnsylvania - Google Search

Love and God Bless, hope it is fixed soon.


Len the Plumber, LLC
4.7(2.6K) · Plumber
3+ years in business · Boothwyn, PA
Open 24 hours · (610) 991-7417
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

Mattioni Plumbing, Heating & Cooling
4.9(1.8K) · Plumber
70+ years in business · Downingtown, PA
Open 24 hours · (484) 699-0264
Onsite services
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

Goodman Plumbing
4.6(370) · Plumber
65+ years in business · Philadelphia, PA
Open 24 hours · (215) 364-7775
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

Neffsville Plumbing & Heating Services
4.8(977) · Plumber
80+ years in business · Lancaster, PA
Open 24 hours · (717) 288-9700
Onsite services
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

Roto-Rooter Plumbing & Water Cleanup
4.6(71) · Plumber
Open 24 hours · (717) 737-8494
WEBSITE

Mr. Rooter Plumbing of Central PA
4.9(284) · Plumber
7+ years in business · Mechanicsburg, PA
Open 24 hours · (717) 516-2673
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

Carney Plumbing, Heating & Cooling
4.8(1K) · Plumber
25+ years in business · Line Lexington, PA
Open 24 hours · (215) 822-9029
Onsite services
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

IFixdit,LLC -Plumbing and Drains
4.9(302) · Plumber
5+ years in business · Philadelphia, PA
Open 24 hours · (267) 979-4517
Onsite services not available
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

Pronto Plumbing & Rooter: Plumbing & Water Heater Repair
4.6(578) · Plumber
10+ years in business · Camp Hill, PA
Open ⋅ Closes 8PM · (717) 366-6587
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

G.F. Bowman, Inc.
4.8(424) · Plumber
50+ years in business · Harrisburg, PA
Closed ⋅ Opens 7:30AM Mon · (717) 409-3164
Onsite services
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

Goodman Plumbing
4.9(189) · Plumber
65+ years in business · Feasterville-Trevose, PA
Open 24 hours · (215) 364-7775
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

JTS Plumbing & Heating
4.8(57) · Plumber
10+ years in business · Easton, PA
Closed ⋅ Opens 7AM Mon · (610) 438-8335
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

Pennsylvania Best Plumbing Co
4.7(42) · Plumber
Easton, PA
Open 24 hours · (484) 275-1805
DIRECTIONS

Joseph's Affordable Plumbing and Heating
4.5(147) · Plumber
7+ years in business · Elkins Park, PA
Open ⋅ Closes 7PM · (215) 673-7700
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

The Plumbing Works
4.5(282) · Plumber
30+ years in business · Reading, PA
Closed ⋅ Opens 8AM Mon · (610) 708-0549
Onsite services
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

David Leroy Plumbing Inc.
4.7(668) · Plumber
10+ years in business · Goldsboro, PA
Open 24 hours · (717) 938-8214
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

Horizon Services - Air Conditioning, Plumbing & Heating
4.7(3.1K) · Plumber
35+ years in business · Audubon, PA
Open 24 hours · (484) 325-6468
Onsite services·Online estimates
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

Roto-Rooter Plumbing & Water Cleanup
4.6(1.1K) · Plumber
85+ years in business · Philadelphia, PA
Open 24 hours · (215) 441-4145
WEBSITE
DIRECTIONS

Agentis Plumbing
4.9(498) · Plumber
65+ years in business · Bethlehem, PA
Open 24 hours · (610) 632-7902

 

[Rhema]

Are you telling me you want me to come to Pennsylvania from Maryland to fix your toilet?

How privileged you are to think that the poor should be paying for the help the church is to provide.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

How privileged you are to think that the poor should be paying for the help the church is to provide.

Not sure if you are serious or not.

Either way, I'll just leave that one alone.

Stay blessed.

 

[Curtis]

1Ti 2:1 Most of all, I’m writing to encourage you to pray with gratitude to God. Pray for all men with all forms of prayers and requests as you intercede with intense passion.
1Ti 2:2 And pray for every political leader and representative, so that we would be able to live tranquil, undisturbed lives, as we worship the awe-inspiring God with pure hearts. (TPT)

I don't know how anyone can pray for those in office if you do not know who these people are.

 

[Rookster]

It seems to me that Jesus never engaged in politics nor did he instruct the apostles to do so. I've had other Christians tell me that it's fine for Christian leaders to engage in politics. I guess I'm of the view that Christian leaders, such as preachers and pastors should follow the example of Jesus and stick to spreading his teachings and check their politics at the door.

What are your thoughts?

You can not preach the gospel to a baby that has been aborted

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

It seems to me that Jesus never engaged in politics nor did he instruct the apostles to do so. I've had other Christians tell me that it's fine for Christian leaders to engage in politics. I guess I'm of the view that Christian leaders, such as preachers and pastors should follow the example of Jesus and stick to spreading his teachings and check their politics at the door.

What are your thoughts?

Will you agree that overall what we are to do is to follow what the Holy Spirit tells us to do?

I agree with you that most of the time, it seems likely, that we won't be too active in a political sense as some
may see it. However it is about what God is doing, not what we want to do, or think is the right thing. It is about what God is doing, yes?

So for example, John the Baptist by the leading of God (I believe) spoke out against Herod in Mark 6:14-29.
By any standard, clearly John was borderline stepping into the political realm by speaking on an elected official in government and
how it was wrong for him to take a certain woman as his wife. Yet in that moment he was stepping into the political because
God was leading Him. - One might say John was just speaking on Herod's personal life but not how he was governing. Ok, well how about Moses?

Was it not political for Moses to address Pharaoh the King of Egypt about the injustice that was happening to the Hebrew children?
Moses was sent by God, we all know that. But he was sent, to a political figure. Yes Moses didn't run for office (not that it matters) but
Moses sought an audience with a politician at the leading of God and got into the affairs of the country. Directly how He was ruling
and the policy of slavery and oppression. Couldn't it be said that in Egypt at that time the enslavement of the Hebrews was a matter
of politics? Meaning how the government was ruling/affairs/policies, etc.

Let's just make it simple, it is about following God in the end. Whatever God says, we should do it. It is not about yes or no to politics,
but yes to obedience to God whatever that may be. You agree?

If God isn't leading you to talk to your Senator about injustice in your community then don't,
If God is leading you to talk to your Senator about injustice in your community, then do.
God doesn't have the same plan for everyone, we are the body of Christ and we all have different yet complimentary assignments.
In an army all aren't infantry, all are not in the tank division, all are not in the navy, all are not in the airforce, all are not medics -- but each is needed.

Obviously there is a problem, you know what it is?
The problem unfortunately is that many Christians do not know the voice of God, and follow their personal feelings, beliefs, values, perceptions, convictions,
rather than having a relationship with Jesus, forsaking sin so the Holy Spirit is welcomed-- Leading to hearing God's voice. So we end up doing
what we "think" is right, rather than simply hearing God's voice(leading) and following.

 

[PloughBoy]

Something is wrong. A lot of Christian church people and their leaders are going backwards. Instead of growing more into “Sanctification and Holiness” many are becoming more worldly in thinking and actions and proclaiming it is the christian way. And then again maybe it is.

But Pharaoh was not a politician he was King. Pharaohs are not elected. They are pure breed brothers marries sisters, Mama’s it is a family affair. Pharaohs did what they wanted to do. And Moses there was no type of politics evolved. God told Pharaoh “Let My People Go.”! These people here belongs to me. I put them in bondage and now I AM is sitting them free. And I don’t need your permission.
And I AM is going to show the world who “I AM”!

And the reason John the Baptist spoke up to “Herod” he was a Jew under The Covenant of GOD and broke the Law and the plenty is death. No politics involve here. The Law of GOD was given to the Jews. And it had nothing to do with “Roman” politics. render to Caesar what is Caesar’s. But he broke The Law of GOD in which as a Jew he is under The Law of GOD which was given to The Jew 1st.
It was a call to Repentance for Herod. One of The main office of The Holy Spirit is to point out man’s sins in order for man to come to True repentance. A man cannot come to true repentance unless The Holy Spirit points out and shows that person the severity of one’s sin no matter how minor it may seem. Once the sin is reveal either the person is broken or he defends his transgressions by any means he pleases, even if he has to commit to murder to Silence the out cry of his transgressions.

 

[Rhema]

Not sure if you are serious or not.

Either way, I'll just leave that one alone.

Stay blessed.

Actually, I was quite serious. For decades, I would provide help for anyone in need, poor, rich, believer, non-believer - no charge.

But now that I'm on the other end .... POOF.... no one anywhere to be found. Everyone wants to be paid.

Help someone near you... for me.

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

You can not preach the gospel to a baby that has been aborted

No need, they're already in heaven... Aren't they ??

Rhema

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Actually, I was quite serious. For decades, I would provide help for anyone in need, poor, rich, believer, non-believer - no charge.

But now that I'm on the other end .... POOF.... no one anywhere to be found. Everyone wants to be paid.

Help someone near you... for me.

Thanks,
Rhema

God bless.

Keeping you in prayer.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

But Pharaoh was not a politician he was King. Pharaohs are not elected.

pol·i·ti·cian
/ˌpäləˈtiSHən/

noun
noun: politician; plural noun: politicians

1. a person who is professionally involved in politics, especially as a holder of or a candidate for an elected office.
   
   A politician is a person active in party politics, or a person holding or seeking an elected seat in government. Politicians propose, support, reject, and create laws that govern the land and, by extension, its people.
   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
   
   
   I respectfully disagree with your statement above that I quoted. I think Pharaoh fits the definition. I think you are trying hard to split hairs, but I think you are doing so to prove a point rather than embrace the reality in-front of you. It reminds me when people would say, I'm just looking at a women with lust but I'm not really committing adultery, and Jesus corrected the them, stating that the mere thoughts were a violation of the commandment. So the purpose of the definition of a politician is to if Pharaoh fits that definition, this connects the original post about if Christians are to be in politics at all. And if one can prove that Pharaoh is not a politician than it adds to their point that Christians should not in any circumstance be involved. So I see you, and I say this in love, I see you focusing on what you want and trying to force it, rather than looking at what is clearly in-front of you. I imagine that if someone asked the question, if Pharaoh was a politician to you, apart from this discussion and politics, you would say yes he was. But I'm think that with this being linked to the discussion of Christians and politics, the word politician now has a different meaning.
   
   
   

 

[PloughBoy]

I understand and respect your point of view for each and every man has that right. Just like the Christian or person has the right to believe in abortions, gender rights, For I am not the judge for Christianity and mankind has its own rights. So we do not believe in The same GOD, it seems any way, But I stand, for my GOD might be the false one and my beliefs might be tainted by a demonic host. But my judgment day will come for I might be the one standing on the left side, where He declares I know you not, neither did I teach you anything and knowledge of me and my Word which you know is a knowledge of false hood, and you did not know my voice.
And here is where I stand so help me GOD.

So I am not the judge but you may judge me anyway you choose, by scripture by thoughts even by the Word of GOD.it is your human right and I will wear them as a badge of honor. No hard feelings here.
Each man has the right to think as he pleases, especially here in The United States of American” at one time.

But Christians must comply, and be politically correct. Or you might lose your job and your liberty your wife your dog and gold fish. And that is a fact. Worldwide. I am glad I am one of GODS “Freemen” and own by no organisation. But I have dual citizenship and respect both and their laws The United States of American and a place that is called in the English language “Heaven”.

 

[PloughBoy]

but I say to you, that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his “heart”.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I understand and respect your point of view for each and every man has that right. Just like the Christian or person has the right to believe in abortions, gender rights, For I am not the judge for Christianity and mankind has its own rights. So we do not believe in The same GOD, it seems any way, But I stand, for my GOD might be the false one and my beliefs might be tainted by a demonic host. But my judgment day will come for I might be the one standing on the left side, where He declares I know you not, neither did I teach you anything and knowledge of me and my Word which you know is a knowledge of false hood, and you did not know my voice.
And here is where I stand so help me GOD.

So I am not the judge but you may judge me anyway you choose, by scripture by thoughts even by the Word of GOD.it is your human right and I will wear them as a badge of honor. No hard feelings here.
Each man has the right to think as he pleases, especially here in The United States of American” at one time.

But Christians must comply, and be politically correct. Or you might lose your job and your liberty your wife your dog and gold fish. And that is a fact. Worldwide. I am glad I am one of GODS “Freemen” and own by no organisation. But I have dual citizenship and respect both and their laws The United States of American and a place that is called in the English language “Heaven”.

Thanks for sharing. God bless @PloughBoy .
I pray we all get to hear "Well done my good and faithful servant".