Can you make an argument as to why Christian leaders should or shouldn't engage in politics?

[K9Buckeye]

It seems to me that Jesus never engaged in politics nor did he instruct the apostles to do so. I've had other Christians tell me that it's fine for Christian leaders to engage in politics. I guess I'm of the view that Christian leaders, such as preachers and pastors should follow the example of Jesus and stick to spreading his teachings and check their politics at the door.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Samson2020]

Anyone truly dead to the things of the world is dead to politics, as they are a thing of the unregenerate world always trying to "fix" something. God works all things after the counsel
of His own will. They truly believe they can overthrow his decisions, though they do not believe he is in control in the first place.
We are called to become Holy and Love one another. All I see in politics is hate, strife , and a struggle for power. It keeps the unregenerate busy. They toil their life away attempting to fix what
does not need to be fixed and all the while "through knowledge they knew not God."
I admit I watch but no voting and surely no trying to persuade those who do one way or the other as my Father sets up and tears down the powers that be. Romans 13

A sure sign of a wolf in sheeps clothing is a so called pastor or preacher trying to persuade "his" flock to vote this way or that and uses the Bible to do it. All I can say is not a place to be, as
they do not understand the role of a disciple of Christ.
If we want to become what Jesus is we must listen to/obey Him, as all the rest want to teach what they do not understand. It's a distraction.
Hebrews 5:9

 

[K9Buckeye]

Anyone truly dead to the things of the world is dead to politics, as they are a thing of the unregenerate world always trying to "fix" something. God works all things after the counsel
of His own will. They truly believe they can overthrow his decisions, though they do not believe he is in control in the first place.
We are called to become Holy and Love one another. All I see in politics is hate, strife , and a struggle for power. It keeps the unregenerate busy. They toil their life away attempting to fix what
does not need to be fixed and all the while "through knowledge they knew not God."
I admit I watch but no voting and surely no trying to persuade those who do one way or the other as my Father sets up and tears down the powers that be. Romans 13

A sure sign of a wolf in sheeps clothing is a so called pastor or preacher trying to persuade "his" flock to vote this way or that and uses the Bible to do it. All I can say is not a place to be, as
they do not understand the role of a disciple of Christ.
If we want to become what Jesus is we must listen to/obey Him, as all the rest want to teach what they do not understand. It's a distraction.
Hebrews 5:9

Thanks for your response. I believe that it's fine for Christians to be involved in their communities, even as a "politician". Communities NEED good civic leaders. I believe that Christian leaders, such as preachers and pastors, should stick to preaching the word of Jesus rather than their own word.

 

[Samson2020]

Thanks for your response. I believe that it's fine for Christians to be involved in their communities, even as a "politician". Communities NEED good civic leaders. I believe that Christian leaders, such as preachers and pastors, should stick to preaching the word of Jesus rather than their own word.

That would seem to be just the opposite of your initial post.
Just so you know WE are all brothers of Jesus, and ALL his disciples. Just because one takes a title like a pastor, preacher etc... means nothing. We are equal in the Lord.
To separate out one who has not taken a title and allow them to be political suggests they are held to a lower standard than the ones who have assumed a title, that's incorrect.
This type of thinking., of levels of laity, is a component of the doctrine of the Nicoliatians which thing the Lord hates.

PS Anybody with $25 can get a pastoral license to do weddings and preach from the pulpit, but it doesn't make them a true Christian.

 

[Dave M]

I have often thought about this when I see preachers endorsing some politicians, I am not really sure, but the more I read the bible the more I see the need to stay away from the world politics is nasty buisness, why would a Godly man want to have anything to do with it is beyond me.

 

[Hekuran]

Our allegiance is to the Lord Jesus Christ. Everything comes second to that.

We pray, 'may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.' So I think it's legitimate and good to strive towards God's will in every sphere of life, politics included.

 

[Mister]

@Sampson
I had a pastor that would use scripture mixed in with who to vote for though he wouldn't flat out say who to vote for. He also would make predictions on how politics would play out, for example how Biden would be found incompetent and replaced by Kamala.

I ended up not voting and not returning to that church. Not for that reason but for others, but it fits well into this discussion.

 

[Reba1]

The OT is full of politics . We are told from the beginning to have dominion. We never told to turn all onver to satan .

 

[Rhema]

The OT is full of politics . We are told from the beginning to have dominion. We (were) never told to turn all over to satan .

Actually, the opposite:

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.​

(1 John 3:8 KJV)​

Why would any sane person let the government be run by sinners? That's a rejection of the authority of Jesus -

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

(Matthew 28:18 KJV)​

Rhema

 

[K9Buckeye]

Actually, the opposite:

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.​

(1 John 3:8 KJV)​

Why would any sane person let the government be run by sinners? That's a rejection of the authority of Jesus -

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

(Matthew 28:18 KJV)​

Rhema

We're all "sinners".

Is it your belief that people who want to walk in Jesus' steps and teach his word should also engage in politics?

I believe Christians SHOULD engage in their communities and in "politics". I do NOT believe that people who choose to spread the word of Jesus in the role of a church leader should engage in politics. I believe doing so is a disservice to the greater cause of saving souls. Jesus did NOT engage in politics.

 

[Rhema]

Jesus did NOT engage in politics.

He did. You just can't see it.

Rhema

 

[Christina2000]

It seems to me that Jesus never engaged in politics nor did he instruct the apostles to do so. I've had other Christians tell me that it's fine for Christian leaders to engage in politics. I guess I'm of the view that Christian leaders, such as preachers and pastors should follow the example of Jesus and stick to spreading his teachings and check their politics at the door.

What are your thoughts?

I think bringing Christian values and principles to every area of life is good and right. If a person has the gifts to be influential in politics, then pursue that path - with constant prayers for guidance.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

These are my thoughts, hopefully they reflect the truth of the scripture and the person of Jesus Christ.

It is not so simple as it seems, but then again it is. So there are two things that stand out to me.

First, how is the body of Christ to bring about change in the world?
Secondly, how is the body of Christ to respond to the needs of the world?

Speaking of bringing about change, the first point, the world system of politics tries to bring about change
from the top down. Meaning changing laws and writing policies so it comes from the top ( a command) and
behaviors are changed. The Christian way as Jesus shared is from the bottom up, changing hearts and then
the individuals change society.

However that is not to say that Christians should not engage in politics. In my definition of politics I would define
it as the system by which elected or appointed officials represent the people for the proper functioning of the land
and interest of those they represent. I think Christians should vote so that our interest are represented.
If you don't want your children being taught LGBT+ agenda in 1st grade, vote, so that you are represented.

Yet, it gets tricky when the body of Christ, the church, or pastors, who represent the body of Christ to the world, endorse
a particular political candidate. Because their endorsement of the person often makes for an unholy alliance with the world.
Wisdom seems to speak and instructs its children that yes we should be involved in the affairs of this world which we live in(politics),
but we should not (as a church) endorse candidates (necessarily) but endorse values and principles. And let the individual members
of the church vote based on these values. I think Pastors should preach on affairs that are happening but from the Bible. For example, if I was a pastor
in 1858 in America, I would indeed preach against slavery from the pulpit and preach from the Bible, reminding that God says
to love our neighbor as ourselves. I wouldn't endorse a political party or say vote for Abe Lincoln, I would say, love your brother
and slavery is wrong, now vote your conscience as the Holy Spirit leads you.

Concerning the second point about responding to the needs of the world, we as a church are called to respond to the needs of the
world. We are called to feed the poor, we are called to stand up for the oppressed, we are call to visit the sick. Now, how
does this fit in with politics? Well the government provides many services which feeds the poor, and helps those who don't have.
Some Christian believe that we should just outsource this to the government and others feels we should not rely on the government
to do God's work. For all tax paying citizens, we have the right to voice how we want that money to be spent. I personally,
see a value in both. I care about feeding the poor, so I support policies that give extra funding for the poor or daycare vouchers
for unemployed parents, etc; yet I also pay my tithes because my church also does such ministry, and I also take my own personal
money and feed the poor myself. So I don't think it has to be a conflict. Pay your taxes (and vote on how it should be spend),
pay your tithes (and be part of a church that does ministry), and use your own extra funds as able to be a blessing to those
in need.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Politics is determining if we should have more or less gun control
Politics is determining laws against abortion
Politics is determining if there should be mandatory minimum sentences for crime or not
Politics is determining who we elect and the diplomatic stance they take towards other countries
Politics is determining who we elect and if they are competent as a command in chief of the army
Politics is determining how much taxes we should pay, and how to set up that system
Politics is determining who is deemed essential during a pandemic, a church or a liquor store.

---do I need to continue?

The point is that politics is very important. It is just the governance of the people and day to day affairs
on a higher broader level.

However unfortunately, politics is ran by politicians.
And politicians get many campaign contributions and money corrupts the system, and
they make promises and deals to get elected, and they lie to get elected, and the system is a mess.

Yet, we still need good Christian people of Character to be in the system to shine the light.
God wants His people everywhere, to testify and be a witness.

Not necessarily because the Kingdom of God will come through legislation, but because we can
be the light wherever we are put. And God wants to have the light shine everywhere.

Our faith is not in this world, And this world is passing away. Yet we still are tending to the affairs
for the purpose of day to day living, serving as a witness, loving others, and being good stewards
of the resources and people God has put on this earth.

Love and God Bless.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

In regards to my statement about Pastors preaching on affairs that are happening in this world but from the Bible,
this is a good example Luke Chapter 13.1-5.

It reads:
---------------------------------
Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.
Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way?
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem?
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
---------------------------------

In the passages above, Jesus speaks on some of the affairs that were happening. However he does not focus on a political policy
or what the rulers were doing, but brings it back to the Bible, and reminded the people that they too were no better and would
also perish in hell if they didn't repent.

So Jesus was speaking on what was happening, but bringing it to the Bible. -- I think this is what we should do. Instead of
what I hear people say, they say, "don't mention what is happening, just preach the Bible." -- But Jesus mentioned what was
happening, but didn't get caught up in the world's interpretation, he mentioned the affairs, but brought the light of God on it.

We should do this. Instead of shying away from speaking on the difficult topics.

 

[Squeakybro]

POLITICS
John 6:15
15 Therefore when Jesus perceived that they were about to come and take Him by force to make Him king, He departed again to the mountain by Himself alone.
John 13:15-17
15 "For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.
16 "Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him.
17 "If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them.
2 Tim 2:3-4
3 You therefore must endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
4 No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier.
Matt 23:11-13
11 "But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 "And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
1 Cor 1:26
26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
Matt 11:25
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.
Luke 10:22-24
22 "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him."
23 Then He turned to His disciples and said privately, "Blessed are the eyes which see the things you see;
24 "for I tell you that many prophets and kings have desired to see what you see, and have not seen it, and to hear what you hear, and have not heard it."
Matt 11:28-30
28 "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30 "For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."
2 Cor 6:17-18
17 Therefore "Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you."
18 "I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."
Rom 8:35-37
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
(NKJ)

 

[Samson2020]

Romans 13:1-2
Let every soul be subject unto the governing authorities. For there us no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgement on themselves.

A Christian that understands that God is in control of ALL things will understand that they should stay completely out of the way as they do not want to be in a position contrary
to what God is accomplishing. And if they are contrary to God they will lose and not be happy about it, not to mention much time effort and stress that have been put into their
carnally minded agenda will have been futile.

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS
OWN WILL.

THIS INCLUDES ALL LEADERS WORLD WIDE.

Our agenda is to increase the kingdom through our testimony, and any other thing that the Lord would send or tell us to do.

"Wise as serpents and harmless as doves"

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I think you are both right @Samson2020 and @Squeakybro .

@Samson2020 you are emphasizing the order that God has put in place in terms of submitting to the government
and following the order that God has put in place related to government. This is true.

@Squeakybro , you are emphasizing not having our spirit, our heart to be married to the world system or to put our faith,
hope, trust, in the world's system. This is also true.


We are to be in the world (participate) but not off the world (adopting its patterns and ways of doing things).

We are to be an example of how things should be. Your points do not cancel the other's point out. They are both
parallel truths.

 

[Rhema]

A Christian that understands that God is in control of ALL things will understand that they should stay completely out of the way as they do not want to be in a position contrary
to what God is accomplishing.

And what if God is depending upon (using) your vote to express his control of "all things" ?? If you don't vote, then, you'd be in a position contrary to what God is accomplishing. Is your god too weak to guide your vote ?? Why would God want voting power to be only in the hands of evil ones ??

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

(Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)​

GO is a command. Observance is an obedience to God above and irrespective to the laws of the land. The difference between then and now is that you actually have the power to vote and bring the laws of the land into harmony with the love of God. A hard fought for God given right. Why flush it down the toilet?

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.​

(Acts 5:29 KJV)​

Was Peter wrong?

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

I think bringing Christian values and principles to every area of life is good and right. If a person has the gifts to be influential in politics, then pursue that path - with constant prayers for guidance.

The Fellowship (Christian organization) - Wikipedia

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