Have you been Baptized?

[Rhema]

Sorry..
Are You?

No. I am not Shaolin. I do not browbeat other believers, as we are to be brethren. (Nor do I argue with myself. )

In that I had asked for the scripture that gives you cause to believe -

Having God (Jesus) in you is the essence of the Gospel!

Why couldn't you just post it?

Perhaps I had forgotten to say please.
(Please forgive the omission.)

Perhaps you could help in a broader sense to provide any scripture to show that Jesus "goes" in anyone...

I am aware of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but no kind of teaching about an indwelling of Jesus, although I have run across certain believers who state that Jesus is the Holy Spirit. Might you then be a Modalist?

Thanks,
Rhema

(And maybe "purpose" might be a better word than "essence" or "goal," ... no?)
.

 

[Rhema]

@Rhema , see Isaiah 64:6

and we are all become as unclean, and all our righteousness as a filthy rag: and we have fallen as leaves because of our iniquities; thus the wind shall carry us away. And there is none that calls upon thy name, or that remembers to take hold on thee: for thou hast turned thy face away from us, and hast delivered us up because of our sins. And now, O Lord, thou art our Father, and we are clay, all of us the work of thine hands. Be not very wroth with us, and remember not our sins for ever; but now look on us, for we are all thy people.​

(Isaiah 64:6-9 Brenton)​

Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit in my inward parts. Cast me not away from thy presence; and remove not thy holy Spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of thy salvation: establish me with thy directing Spirit. Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and ungodly men shall turn to thee. Deliver me from blood-guiltiness, O God, the God of my salvation: and my tongue shall joyfully declare thy righteousness. O Lord, thou shalt open my lips; and my mouth shall declare thy praise. For if thou desiredst sacrifice, I would have given it: thou wilt not take pleasure in whole-burnt-offerings. Sacrifice to God is a broken spirit: a broken and humbled heart God will not despise.​

(Psalms 51:10-17 Brenton)​

 

[Rhema]

the Thief would have been Baptised by Jesus the Holy Spirit!

Ahh... then you are a Modalist.

Thank you,
Rhema

Wait.. What? Did you mean to write, "by Jesus with the Holy Spirit" ? or "Baptised (sic) by Jesus, the Holy Spirit" ??

 

[Rhema]

So how do I know that the Holy Spirit indwelled that evening. What else would account for the miraculous change in my life (and the smoking thing too)?? Being "Born Again" is the result of being infilled by the Holy Spirit, who fuzes with your spirit, and makes you a new person. A "Child of God" as it were. it's what's described in John 20:22 (the effects of which are in Luke 24:45).

Bob, Thank you very much for your post. It'd be wonderful were you to copy it over to "testimonies" somewhere, and in the future you can link to it when necessary.

But, ... I gotta say, the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit doesn't account for the miraculous changes (praise be to God) that you experienced that night. You asked, "What else would?" Well, such a thing results from the act of repentance when God then creates a clean heart within you, along with a renewal of a right spirit (your human spirit) within you.

What you've described occurs even in the OT.

Turn away thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit in my inward parts. Cast me not away from thy presence; and remove not thy holy Spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of thy salvation: establish me with thy directing Spirit.​

(Psalms 51:9-12 Brenton)​

Then again, perhaps you believe that the Holy Spirit indwelled David and others in the same manner even before the New Covenant was established? I find that many Christians draw a distinction between the Holy Spirit being upon someone and within someone. If the indwelling of the HS could occur under the OT, then why even establish a NT ??

But being Born from Above happens when one repents (as the Father reveals to you who the Son is - Mat 16:17 ), and imparts a spirit of belief (not the Holy Spirit) to your human spirit. And I've seen the "smoking thing" happen time and again - it's a gift of healing that you were given (praise be to God). And yet I've seen it given to others who were not yet believers. But nothing you've described is specific to the event whereby the Holy Spirit indwells a person. Other things happen as evidence of the Indwelling.

Thank you, though, for your uplifting testimony, and praise be to God for the mighty way in which his hand has worked in your life.

Rhema
Acts 18:24-19:6

 

[Rhema]

When you die, God looks inside you and sees Jesus's Righteousness , Holiness and Perfection...not YOURS.

It truly would help if you'd post scripture along with these things.

Blessings,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Paul said that Jesus did not send Him to water baptize.

Do you think he didn't get the memo?

Paul went rogue.

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

(Matthew 28:18-20 KJV)​

Jesus' command to the apostles was quite clear and concise.

Rhema

 

[Bethel]

Paul went rogue.

Your perspective on Paul, is "rogue".

Jesus is God.
God, as Jesus chose Paul to be a "chosen vessel".
Paul wrote most of the New Testament, and all of the Church Doctrine.

What Paul wrote, Look at it today.
Its your New Testament.
Do you have one?
Paul wrote most of it..

 

[Born Again 2004]

For all of you to read and better understand who I am:

You must accept the Trinity as God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, all separate and All God at the same time.

So it is unless for you to associate me with ANY man-made term like Modalist or anything else that is not in the Bible.

I am a true Christian, I believe all that Jesus is and has done according to Scriptire ; nothing more and nothing less; Jesus is my Lord and Savior.

You can associate me with any TERM that you please, that is YOUR privilege!

 

[Rhema]

God, as Jesus chose Paul to be a "chosen vessel".

I know you believe this, but then... where did Jesus ever actually say this?
When one takes a closer look, It was Paul who said that Paul was a chosen vessel. One has only his testimony about himself -

If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.​

(John 5:31 KJV)​

Need I elaborate?

Jesus commanded his disciple to baptize, and as you've pointed out, Paul disdained the practice.

Paul wrote most of the New Testament, and all of the Church Doctrine.

And that should tell you something. Why would you posture as a follower of Jesus when in truth you are a follower of Paul ??

Truly, I'm seriously asking. Do you think that Jesus would be cursing people?

Paul may have written most of your New Testament, but Paul did not write (author) the gospel that Jesus taught. If Jesus came preaching the Gospel, then the Gospel is what Jesus preached. Paul seems to have his own personal "my gospel" that became problematic to the apostles chosen by Jesus. When we know that the Gospel is what Jesus preached, start with only the "red letters" - the words of Jesus - and then see what Gospel one arrives at.

If Paul contradicted Jesus on Baptism, then ... like I said ... that should tell you something.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

You must accept the Trinity as God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, all separate and All God at the same time.

So it is unless (sic - useless?) for you to associate me with ANY man-made term like Modalist or anything else that is not in the Bible.

And yet the term "Trinity" is not in the Bible.

So you chastise me for associating you with a "man-made term" like Modalism and yet you yourself do not know that the word "Trinity" itself is a "man-made term" ??

How wonderfully bizarre,
Rhema

PS: I know quite a few Modalists who rabidly demand they are Trinitarian.
PPS: If I was baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and Holy Spirit, does that automatically make me a Trinitarian then?

 

[Born Again 2004]

And yet the term "Trinity" is not in the Bible.

So you chastise me for associating you with a "man-made term" like Modalism and yet you yourself do not know that the word "Trinity" itself is a "man-made term" ??

How wonderfully bizarre,
Rhema

PS: I know quite a few Modalists who rabidly demand they are Trinitarian.
PPS: If I was baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and Holy Spirit, does that automatically make me a Trinitarian then?

My bad, I thought you would relate to the word "Trinity" better.

Let me ask you three questions:
1. Do you think the Bible supports or doesn't support the idea that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one in the same whether THE word "Trinity" is exactly stated or not?

2.-OR- Do you continue to be argumentative?

3. As this is a Talk Jesus Forum, do you atleast agree with me that Jesus is our Lord and Savior?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

imparts a spirit of belief (not the Holy Spirit) to your human spirit.

Chuckle!! That's "Creative". Don't know that I've heard that "variation" before. Where did you dig up your "Spirit of Belief" thing from????

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Paul went rogue.

WOW!!! that simplifies things!!!! Obviously then about 1/4 of the New Testament is garbage, then, and we don't have to bother with Paul's 13 epistles!!

 

[Rhema]

Let me ask you three questions:
1. Do you think the Bible supports or doesn't support the idea that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one in the same ...?

Allow me to ask back:
1. Is the Father greater than the Son?

The classic doctrine of the Trinity states that God is three persons. Do you believe that these persons are one in the same person? Perhaps you may need to clarify what you mean by "one in the same" ... In addition, the classic doctrine of the Trinity states that all three persons are co-equal, which is why I asked my specific question, is the Father greater than the Son.

However, we have now strayed off the topic of Baptism and have wound our way into Christology, so if you start a thread, just let me know.

2.-OR- Do you continue to be argumentative?

I've never been argumentative. I support all my claims with scripture verses and/or historical references and facts within a rational presentation.

3. As this is a Talk Jesus Forum, do you atleast agree with me that Jesus is our Lord and Savior?

"Our ?"

I cannot speak for you, but Jesus is the Christ - the Son of the living God, who brings salvation to the world and through whom is taught the true way to have one's sins forgiven.

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:​

(Acts 13:38 KJV)​

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, ... forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.​

(Matthew 6:9-12 KJV+)​

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

WOW!!! that simplifies things!!!! Obviously then about 1/4 of the New Testament is garbage, then, and we don't have to bother with Paul's 13 epistles!!

Do you then also not bother with the sermons each and every Sunday you listen to in church? Given by someone who is most definitely not an apostle? Are those sermons garbage?

That would simplify a lot of things too.

And why are you disrespectful as to shove words in my mouth? Have I done the same to you?

Regardless, the question still stands. Did Jesus preach a Gospel (as found in the gospels) sufficient unto salvation or not? The Dispensationalists (especially the Mid-Acts-Dispensationalists) say no, and that Paul was given extra-revelation, the "true gospel" that was not taught to the 12. Might you be one of those people? (It's hard to tell.)

Jesus directly commanded the 12 to baptize. Paul had a problem with that and went rogue in his later ministry. (Unless you think Jesus changed his mind... )

Rhema

Chuckle!! That's "Creative". Don't know that I've heard that "variation" before. Where did you dig up your "Spirit of Belief" thing from????

When one says "believe in thine heart" ... what do they mean? To believe within a person's spirit? Or is it talking about the beating pump of literal blood?

Your ridicule is not a seemly thing for a minister of the Gospel.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Do you then also not bother with the sermons each and every Sunday you listen to in church? Given by someone who is most definitely not an apostle? Are those sermons garbage?

That would simplify a lot of things too.

And why are you disrespectful as to shove words in my mouth? Have I done the same to you?

Regardless, the question still stands. Did Jesus preach a Gospel (as found in the gospels) sufficient unto salvation or not? The Dispensationalists (especially the Mid-Acts-Dispensationalists) say no, and that Paul was given extra-revelation, the "true gospel" that was not taught to the 12. Might you be one of those people? (It's hard to tell.)

Jesus directly commanded the 12 to baptize. Paul had a problem with that and went rogue in his later ministry. (Unless you think Jesus changed his mind... )

Rhema

When one says "believe in thine heart" ... what do they mean? To believe within a person's spirit? Or is it talking about the beating pump of literal blood?

Your ridicule is not a seemly thing for a minister of the Gospel.

Good bye.

 

[Rhema]

Good bye.

Well don't let the door hit you on the way out.

But I'll forgive you anyway.

Rhema

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.​

(1 John 2:19 KJV)​

(Kinda sad .........)
.

 

[BroTan]

Paul said that Jesus did not send Him to water baptize.

Do you think he didn't get the memo?

"And it came to pass, that, while Apollo was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, "We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.” And he said unto them, "unto what then were ye baptized?" And they said unto John's baptism.

Then Paul said, “John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him who should come after him, that is, Jesus Christ.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve." (Acts 19:1-7).

After reading this what are your thoughts?

 

[BroTan]

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.​

(Matthew 9:13 KJV)​

​

But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.​

(Matthew 12:7 KJV)​

God bless,
Rhema

So your God came as Jesus ... and then had second thoughts ??!!

You speak as if you're not reading it for yourself. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15: 34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

 

[BroTan]

Yup. I was Born again by FAITH (gifted by God (Eph 2:8,9) and infilled with the Holy Spirit on a Wednesday night in my apartment. And then I was Baptized by immersion in water at Greenwood Baptist church in Pasadena, TX the following Sunday Evening.

Is that right? Because the Bible say is John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Notice: He made a difference between flesh and spirit. Ask yourself that question, was you born flesh or spirit?

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Notice: He compared the wind to a spirit. Can you see the wind? No! We have seen things being blown around by the wind, but we have never seen the wind. If you are born of the spirit you are like the wind. This is when you are truly born again, when you are born of the spirit.