A hairy question ?

[Sue D.]

@ PloughBoy -- If hair is invisible to the naked eye -- then chances are it's not there. We're talking about hair on the human body. Other things can be seen under a microscope that are not visible to the naked eye.

Yes, God Is omniscient And omnipresent and omnipotent. Why would those attributes make Him Limited. You sound like -- I think it's KingJ that had a thing going about God being limited and free will or something.

A lot of people have a problem with how God created Adam and then took a rib out of Adam and made Eve. That doesn't mean it didn't happen that way.

And a lot of people have a problem with God creating this world and everything in it in 6 / 24 hr days. And taking the 7th day to rest.

In effect, That is denying the power of God.

 

[Downunder]

1Cor 11:14 Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him,
11:15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
11:16 If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God.
so what does verse 16 mean ??
Is this a commandment from the Lord or is Paul writing from his own perspective on men and women in the church ??

 

[Sue D.]

@Downunder -- if God didn't want it in Scripture, it wouldn't be there. And a lot of people don't really care what's in Scripture or not.

And Some would say -- what constitutes 'long'. and what constitutes 'short'.

So -- long hair with a man -- would probably be anything longer than chin length.

 

[Brad Huber]

Priests are to trim the hair on their heads and not to trim their beards. Ezekiel was visited by God Himself and was given specidic instructions for a specific purpose, i.e, a message to the children of Israel. See Ezekiel 1 through 5.

Ezekiel 5:1 And you, son of man, take a sharp sword, take it as a barber’s razor, and pass it over your head and your beard; then take scales to weigh and divide the hair

Ezekial 44:20
20 “They shall neither shave their heads nor let their hair grow long, but they shall keep their hair well trimmed.

 

[JerryfromMass]

Ezekiel 5:1 And you, son of man, take a sharp sword, take it as a barber’s razor, and pass it over your head and your beard; then take scales to weigh and divide the hair

Ezekial 44:20
20 “They shall neither shave their heads nor let their hair grow long, but they shall keep their hair well trimmed.

Ez. 5 is a specific charge to Ezekiel only, and Ez. 44 is a charge regarding the hair on their heads not of their beards, which God had already said they shall not trim. Lev. 19:27, 21:5. Context.

 

[PloughBoy]

1Cor 11:14 Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him,
11:15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
11:16 If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God.
so what does verse 16 mean ??
Is this a commandment from the Lord or is Paul writing from his own perspective on men and women in the church ??

 

[Fragrant Grace]

l

Short hair or long hair ??
To wear a hat or not to wear a hat ??
To grow a beard or not to grow a beard ??
Is this a salvation issue ??

No

But an interesting discussion.

My children were wondering why my husband has a beard and some Christian men dont.....hence the thread

 

[Brad Huber]

l

No

But an interesting discussion.

My children were wondering why my husband has a beard and some Christian men dont.....hence the thread

And all those OT rules are not applicable to gentiles. Although many try and apply some, thinking it will gain themselves some favor with God.

 

[Hekuran]

What's considered masculine varies from culture to culture. It would be perfectly appropriate and sensible for me as a man to wear a skirt in Samoa, ridiculous in London. Paul handed on traditions that were appropriate for the time and place in Corinth, but cultural indicators don't stay fixed.

And so to some silliness. Sadly, I'm post-evangelical stubble. But with a longing for a full The Spurgeon.

 

[Sue D.]

@PloughBoy -- I was just reading the first comments in this thread and you were making some interesting comments concerning churches in Texas. Since I'm from south, central Texas and go to Baptist churches -- I can say 1st hand what I've observed. 'we' don't wear choir robes -- simply street clothes in the choir loft.

I've never observed a woman teaching a men's class dressed the way you're describing. I Did approach one pastor about a woman teaching a class of mixed adults. He said she was 'fascilitating' -- not actually teaching. The 'issue' being that no man wants to be 'corrected' by a woman in a mixed group. That's why Men are supposed to teach mixed groups. Or a married couple teaching. The husband would be the teacher and the wife would be there to share / encourage the women.

Maybe it's the church you choose to go to -- something Could be said to the pastor in private concerning what you felt was being immodest. A really low-cut blouse would be out of place in a church. Then again -- what one person considers to be low-cut could be different than another person's concept of 'low-cut'.

As a woman - I'm a very conservative dresser.

There was a large church in Iowa that decided to Not wear choir robes during the summer because they were too warm. They were long-sleeved -- had a large neck-piece that slipped over the head and was down to the calf of the legs. They were very beautiful, conservative robes. That was back many decades ago.

So -- when something bothers a person about something at the church -- go talk to the person in charge -- by themselves -- be it a deacon or Sunday school teacher. Have a legit reason For the concern. Is the 'thing' going against Biblical principles or a matter of personal pereferance. We were talking about that at Bible study Sunday evening. One church had split because the people couldn't decide between oblong or circular tables for use in the Fellowship hall on potlock Sundays / and use for the class room. And it's true that That has nothing to do with modesty.

And , depending on the location Of the church -- in a resort area -- beaches, etc. during the summer -- people do sometimes forget that they should still dress modestly for church and change to sports clothes after church for the beach. Some years ago there was a young couple who came to church visiting -- they knew the Associate pastor -- so they came to say 'Hi' on a warm Sunday morning. They knew they were going into a church building -- she was wearing a sun dress -- okay -- but I was standing at a 90-degree angle to her -- I had to shift my eyes because I could see everything in her front. She Should have known better and her husband Should have observed and suggested she wear something else to the church.

 

[Sue D.]

@ Hekuran -- how about a cross between the Guru Goatee and the Boy Band church planter.

 

[Garee]

1st I have looked at your name, still not knowing if you are "male or female", I have look at your age, and Location, state only, And I see no Testimony.

And I notice how you have address The KJV and by your approach it does not matter what Copyright year, or whether it is the Oxford edition or The Cambridge edition. the main thing is, your approach and your view of "The Book". Mm.

I have no response

Thanks . I am a male, 72, from Milwaukee

That would seem to be your response . Its not about what book a person uses they all differ one way or the other .I do look to others sometimes a certain principle is said differently The king James is just as reliable. . . but has its errors .

it would seem my approach has some difference from yours . Maybe in the way we see the use of parables. Seeing without them Christ spoke not. Some limit to where they find the word parable. The Bible says there must be heresies as matters of opinion called private interpretations among us as long as they do not do despite to the fulness of Grace the price we are purchased by.

Hair and nail . . dead rudiments are used to represent the glory of God throughout the bible . Life out of death.

 

[Garee]

@PloughBoy -- I was just reading the first comments in this thread and you were making some interesting comments concerning churches in Texas. Since I'm from south, central Texas and go to Baptist churches -- I can say 1st hand what I've observed. 'we' don't wear choir robes -- simply street clothes in the choir loft.

I've never observed a woman teaching a men's class dressed the way you're describing. I Did approach one pastor about a woman teaching a class of mixed adults. He said she was 'fascilitating' -- not actually teaching. The 'issue' being that no man wants to be 'corrected' by a woman in a mixed group. That's why Men are supposed to teach mixed groups. Or a married couple teaching. The husband would be the teacher and the wife would be there to share / encourage the women.

Maybe it's the church you choose to go to -- something Could be said to the pastor in private concerning what you felt was being immodest. A really low-cut blouse would be out of place in a church. Then again -- what one person considers to be low-cut could be different than another person's concept of 'low-cut'.

As a woman - I'm a very conservative dresser.

There was a large church in Iowa that decided to Not wear choir robes during the summer because they were too warm. They were long-sleeved -- had a large neck-piece that slipped over the head and was down to the calf of the legs. They were very beautiful, conservative robes. That was back many decades ago.

So -- when something bothers a person about something at the church -- go talk to the person in charge -- by themselves -- be it a deacon or Sunday school teacher. Have a legit reason For the concern. Is the 'thing' going against Biblical principles or a matter of personal pereferance. We were talking about that at Bible study Sunday evening. One church had split because the people couldn't decide between oblong or circular tables for use in the Fellowship hall on potlock Sundays / and use for the class room. And it's true that That has nothing to do with modesty.

And , depending on the location Of the church -- in a resort area -- beaches, etc. during the summer -- people do sometimes forget that they should still dress modestly for church and change to sports clothes after church for the beach. Some years ago there was a young couple who came to church visiting -- they knew the Associate pastor -- so they came to say 'Hi' on a warm Sunday morning. They knew they were going into a church building -- she was wearing a sun dress -- okay -- but I was standing at a 90-degree angle to her -- I had to shift my eyes because I could see everything in her front. She Should have known better and her husband Should have observed and suggested she wear something else to the church.

Curious do they demonstrate the hair covering ceremony a tradition of God 1 Corinthian 11?

 

[Garee]

You still have hairs on your head you cannot see with the naked eyes, and he knows their name and he can call them by name and they will answer.

Now, can you tell me it is Impossible and it cannot be done. Every hair on your Body has a name, and when God speaks to it, it will talk back!

It is not about hair not seen microscopic . Hair seen represents the unseen glory of God in that ceremonial law as well as the Nazarene vow like Samson .If the woman does not cover it then she should shave it off to show shame . If man covers his hair it show shame .

 

[Sue D.]

@Garee -- Refering to 1 Corinthians 11 -- Head -covering Movement -- that was brought up some time back here in Forum. To be worn by a woman who prays / prophesies during a church service. I've never been in a church that Does that.

The pastor preaches and people are quiet so they can hear him. Men do the praying.

That one gentleman from long ago had a group of followers -- in his church --women were to wear at least a covering on her head or a prayer shawl around her head and shoulders. That she would feel more blessed because of that.

I shared with that particular guy that since I'm not married and don't pray or prophesy in church that I don't need to do that. He said that he'd pray for my salvation / attitude towards' God's Word.


The context of the passage is important and comparing with other passages.

 

[Christ4Ever]

To all you clean-shaven fellas, your problem is not merely the absence of a beard, but your efforts to smooth and soften yourself like women

Brother LOL! You had me rolling when I read the above!!!
I'm growing my goatee into a full beard, but its driving me crazy with the itching! So I'll probably wind up shaving my cheeks once again! However, since I'll probably keep the goatee does this mean I'm half & half...half soft for my feminine side, and half hard for the manly part of me?

For over 20 years while in the military I had to keep my hair high & tight, with a face so smooth mosquitos would slide right off trying to land! When I came to the Lord, while I was stationed in Germany I felt no less the believer, or ever heard tell the necessity of having facial hair in order to comply with this or that. Growing up in Bklyn, and a Jewish neighborhood which had a mix of Orthodox, and Liberal Jews, I still never questioned or heard tell the purpose or reasoning for having one or not having one. I've come to learn that there are many blacks who cannot grow one, and some even have issues with shaving which I had as a Supervisor became aware of which was called Pseudofolliculitis barbae.

If you were to ask my wife, she'd tell you that she'd rather have me clean shaven. Probably due to the fact that when I retired from the Military I let both my head & facial hair grown very long. The problem for her was that I had a habit while we were sitting down in the living room, to grab the end of my beard and would begin to gnaw on it! Hungry maybe? Anyway, I haven't had it so long since. The reason I cut my hair, besides the habit the military instilled in me. Was due to the amount of shampoo I had to use to keep it clean and dandruff that with the long hair is worse, and I've had ever since I was put away in a Detention Center as a youth and had to use a lava type soap to keep clean!! I just don't know how women can afford the up keep with all that use, shampoo, conditioner, etc. that they put into it!

As far as a Biblical stance goes. As a Gentile, there are not too many "rules" that were carried over that were necessary to be addressed by the Apostles in their writings, or surely we'd of heard quite a bit about it. Like don't wear dresses like women, though Galabao's ( not sure its spelled correctly), which Egyptian men (modern) wear might have fallen into that category and would have been frowned up? Or, maybe Romans with Togas, and Greeks with ???

It appears that the form of dress is cultural. If we look to Scripture, then having no clothes on was the original intent, and then animal skin by God's hand an acceptable second I would guess. Think about it. If Adam & Eve letting their hair grow long for hundreds of years, I would think they would have been long enough to be covered by them, and in no need for any garments. However, apparently this was not the case since it was necessary for God to make them some. So, how long is enough if necessary to have long hair & beards? My beard almost went down to my belly button! Probably would have reached the ground by now, if I'd of let it grow! I don't know if I'd of got my last job, if that had been the case!! Department of Corrections tried to keep it short as well. This subject reminds me of a Song from the mid 70's about Hair!!

God bless brother!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[JerryfromMass]

Brother LOL! You had me rolling when I read the above!!!
I'm growing my goatee into a full beard, but its driving me crazy with the itching! So I'll probably wind up shaving my cheeks once again! However, since I'll probably keep the goatee does this mean I'm half & half...half soft for my feminine side, and half hard for the manly part of me?

For over 20 years while in the military I had to keep my hair high & tight, with a face so smooth mosquitos would slide right off trying to land! When I came to the Lord, while I was stationed in Germany I felt no less the believer, or ever heard tell the necessity of having facial hair in order to comply with this or that. Growing up in Bklyn, and a Jewish neighborhood which had a mix of Orthodox, and Liberal Jews, I still never questioned or heard tell the purpose or reasoning for having one or not having one. I've come to learn that there are many blacks who cannot grow one, and some even have issues with shaving which I had as a Supervisor became aware of which was called Pseudofolliculitis barbae.

If you were to ask my wife, she'd tell you that she'd rather have me clean shaven. Probably due to the fact that when I retired from the Military I let both my head & facial hair grown very long. The problem for her was that I had a habit while we were sitting down in the living room, to grab the end of my beard and would begin to gnaw on it! Hungry maybe? Anyway, I haven't had it so long since. The reason I cut my hair, besides the habit the military instilled in me. Was due to the amount of shampoo I had to use to keep it clean and dandruff that with the long hair is worse, and I've had ever since I was put away in a Detention Center as a youth and had to use a lava type soap to keep clean!! I just don't know how women can afford the up keep with all that use, shampoo, conditioner, etc. that they put into it!

As far as a Biblical stance goes. As a Gentile, there are not too many "rules" that were carried over that were necessary to be addressed by the Apostles in their writings, or surely we'd of heard quite a bit about it. Like don't wear dresses like women, though Galabao's ( not sure its spelled correctly), which Egyptian men (modern) wear might have fallen into that category and would have been frowned up? Or, maybe Romans with Togas, and Greeks with ???

It appears that the form of dress is cultural. If we look to Scripture, then having no clothes on was the original intent, and then animal skin by God's hand an acceptable second I would guess. Think about it. If Adam & Eve letting their hair grow long for hundreds of years, I would think they would have been long enough to be covered by them, and in no need for any garments. However, apparently this was not the case since it was necessary for God to make them some. So, how long is enough if necessary to have long hair & beards? My beard almost went down to my belly button! Probably would have reached the ground by now, if I'd of let it grow! I don't know if I'd of got my last job, if that had been the case!! Department of Corrections tried to keep it short as well. This subject reminds me of a Song from the mid 70's about Hair!!

God bless brother!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Regarding beards, we're made free from the strictures of law, though law regarding beards was specifically directed at the Levitical priestly class. Regardless, I prefer my manly hairs untrimmed. ❤

 

[PloughBoy]

"Biblical Historians" And "Biblical Archaeologist" of 1st. century A.D. 55-57 The City of "Corinth", I am so impress by your "Biblical Archaeology" Studies of the cultures and the practices of that city who was founded by "Corinthos" a descendant of the god "ZEUS" But also by Myth it could have been founded by the goddess "Ephyra", a daughter of the "Titan Oceanus". Wow, for a lot of us know, there was so many gods, and goddesses and a host of Temples during that era, For Greece was the Land of "gods and goddesses" for many statues still remain today. for we know that the city of "Corinth" was a capital city during Paul's time. Under the power of" Rome". But a city that was full of gods goddesses, and Shrine's and Temples. it was amazing how the culture was like! "Romans and Greeks" and Apostle Paul and other trying to "Evangelize" "Toga Partying "Greco-Romans" "Corinthians", wearing Long hair

I am so impress with the knowledge of so many christians of the culture of the pagan city called "Corinth" during Pauls Missionary Journey.

 

[Brad Huber]

----
stuff inbetween the beginning and the end
----

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Itching naturally occurs in many people starting to grow beards. You just need either beard oil, which costs more probably, or just some hand lotion rubbed into your beard and skin under your beard when you clean up in the morning (doing it at night gets your pillowcase all greasy). Plus use shampoo, not soap on your beard. I used to use conditioner after shampoo, but since I started using lotion, no longer a need for it.

 

[Garee]

@Garee -- Refering to 1 Corinthians 11 -- Head -covering Movement -- that was brought up some time back here in Forum. To be worn by a woman who prays / prophesies during a church service. I've never been in a church that Does that.

The pastor preaches and people are quiet so they can hear him. Men do the praying.

That one gentleman from long ago had a group of followers -- in his church --women were to wear at least a covering on her head or a prayer shawl around her head and shoulders. That she would feel more blessed because of that.

I shared with that particular guy that since I'm not married and don't pray or prophesy in church that I don't need to do that. He said that he'd pray for my salvation / attitude towards' God's Word.


The context of the passage is important and comparing with other passages.

I did attend a assembly where the hair and breaking of bread ordinance was practiced . They had two meeting .The first hour or meeting practiced the new ceremonial law and took a offering . The second meeting called family Bible hour no offering was taken . The hair covering was not required but during the first meeting most of the women wore one, less towards the second meeting... .. great format.

Rather than a movement or fashion statement for the time present which some teach. . The hair doctrine is the one and only new testament ceremonial law to fit the new restored order of Judges, others were fulfilled at the time of reformation when the veil was rent .

It was used to celebrate the new order of priests, men and woman from all the nation. Prior to that the ceremonies was Jewish men only. There was a high wall separating the Jewish woman from the Jewish men and another that separated the gentile for the Jew. Those walls fell down

it would appear to come form a old testament ceremonial law a Nazarene vow that Samson was part of during the era of Judges before the abomination of desolation Kings in Israel and the government was restored .

In the end of the mater it is all about representations of the unseen things of God to the world signs of the unseen glory of God that will be revealed on the last day under the Sun.

The breaking of bread and drinking the cup part of that demonstration a gospel sign to the world has survived somewhat . But the hair to represent glory ordinance has all but vanished.