Exactly my thought,,,
in another post here on TJ
@Sue D. says the church is gone and not mentioned after chapter 3 or 4. so I just wanted to point out the church the saints who believe in Jesus are all through out the whole book of revelation.
This common teaching in today's church that the church is gone after chapter 3 or 4 in the book of revelation is so widely excepted, yet the saints,, the people who are the church are every wear in the whole book.
I dont get how what seems to me be such a wrong teaching is so widely excepted.
The question of the thread Is whether or not the Church is separate from Israel / the Jews / Children of Israel. OR an extention OF.
There Are people -- in one form or another -- mentioned throughout the book of Revelation. In the form of angels or 'living creatures'. And it would be noticed that as a result OF the 'angels sounding' there is activity upon the earth taking place. Most of it not sounding very pleasant. And then there are the three 'woes'. A lot of descriptive phrasing. Then in chapter 11 -- 'Gentiles' are mentioned as are 'my two witnesses' and 'two olive trees'
and in vs 9 "Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three and a half days and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. vs 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth." vs 11 Now after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. vs 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here. And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them."
That is the activity happening during the 2nd 'woe'.
And, of course, there's lots more. But , to Me at least, it does Not sound like the Church is experiencing any of this. There are Plenty of non-believers left in this world After the Church is taken out.
And, just Maybe, 'this common teaching' Is such because it's True.
Looking at chapter 14: 13 -- "Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Write: 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." Yes, says the Spirit, "That they may rest from the labors, and their works follow them."
Apparently there are people dying as martyrs. And martyrs are those who die for their beliefs. How about the concept that the Jews who accept Christ as their Messiah will Die For their belief.
But -- back to chapter 7 and vs 4 "And I heard the number of those who were sealed. 144,000 of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed; and the passage continues to list 12,000 from each of the named tribes. and then vs 9 talks about the 'great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands. and then vs 10 and on to vs 14 explaining that these are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
Seems that people go 'round and round' about 'this'.
So -- is the Church an extention of Israel / or separate. Is God giving the non-believing Jews a second chance to come to Himself? They were -- are still -- His first chosen people. Salvation was extended To the rest of the world Because of them.
Another comment -- being part of the Children of Israel -- does Not automatically make a person a born-again believer. No matter Who a person is -- what nationality they are -- it's the individual who either accepts or rejects Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. It's the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross that 'washes away my sins'. Jesus Christ being the Son of God.
The tribe of Judah is the line that Jesus Christ came through. Jesus was a Jew. (to the Jews 1st and also to the Greeks).
