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Jesus "Who gave himself a ransom for all to be testified in due time" - I Timothy 2:6

Another scripture says that Christ gave Himself a ransom for many Matt 20:28

even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

So the all in 1 Timothy is the many here. It's the same, the elect of God or Sheep.
 
Here is some more shock and awe for you -
I Peter 4:6 "For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Rejoice @Butch5 - God is bigger than you imagine.

You should have asked me if there is any scripture, rather than make a baseless assumption.
'Who shall give account to Him
That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
For for this cause
was the gospel preached
also to them that are dead,
that they might be judged
according to men in the flesh,
but live according to God in the spirit.'
(1 Peter 4:5)

Hello @Primordial Light,

Interesting verse, but as the testimony of Scripture denies the possibility of the dead communicating with the living or visa versa, then it has to be understood to refer to 'the quick' and 'the dead': two categories of mankind, those who are quickened (ie., made alive unto God) by the Spirit, ie.,believers: and those who are the unbelieving, who are reckoned to be dead while they live.

So, this is not referring to the dead of mankind (literally - absence of life), but those who are dead in trespasses and sins, who have not believed in God's only Begotten Son, and been quickened to life by the Spirit.

The gospel message is preached to all men, and whosoever will may come, but not all will believe and be saved.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Last edited:
'Who shall give account to Him
That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
For for this cause
was the gospel preached
also to them that are dead,
that they might be judged
according to men in the flesh,
but live according to God in the spirit.'
(1 Peter 4:5)

Hello @Primordial Light,

Interesting verse, but as the testimony of Scripture denies the possibility of the dead communicating with the living or visa versa, then it has to be understood to refer to 'the quick' and 'the dead': two categories of mankind, those who are quickened (ie., made alive unto God) by the Spirit, ie.,believers: and those who are the unbelieving, who are reckoned to be dead while they live.

So, this is not referring to the dead of mankind (literally), but those who are are dead in trespasses and sins, who have not believed in God's only Begotten Son, and been quickened to life by the Spirit.

The gospel message is preached all men, but not all will believe and be saved.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Wrong again.
I can't even say, "Nice try".
It says, "that they may be judged according to men in the flesh".
It is further clarified by going back to II Peter 3:18-19 of Jesus "who was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the spirt, BY WHICH also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison..."

Jesus not only talks to the physically dead, he meets with them - because Jesus is JESUS.

Yup, all people ever born will be raised unto "justification of life" :
Romans 5:17-18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

"ALL IN DUE TIME" - Like the header states.
"Every man in his own order" - I Cor 15:23
 
Here is some more shock and awe for you -
I Peter 4:6 "For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Rejoice @Butch5 - God is bigger than you imagine.

You should have asked me if there is any scripture, rather than make a baseless assumption.
I didnt make a baseless claim. I've studied this topic for years. Its not there. If it was I'm sure you'd have posted it.
 
Wrong again.
I can't even say, "Nice try".
It says, "that they may be judged according to men in the flesh".
It is further clarified by going back to II Peter 3:18-19 of Jesus "who was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the spirt, BY WHICH also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison..."

Jesus not only talks to the physically dead, he meets with them - because Jesus is JESUS.

Yup, all people ever born will be raised unto "justification of life" :
Romans 5:17-18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

"ALL IN DUE TIME" - Like the header states.
"Every man in his own order" - I Cor 15:23
Take notice to the order of events in 2 Peter 3:18-19. He was dead, then quickened, then preached. So, he was alive when He did it. The Greek word translated preached isn't the word normally used of the Gospel. It means to herald or make a proclamation. If we read on Peter tells us what that proclamation was, that Demons were made subject to Him. He wasn't preaching the Godpel to the ghosts of dead people. He was proclaiming His superiority to demons in prison.
 
I didnt make a baseless claim. I've studied this topic for years. Its not there. If it was I'm sure have posted it.
Does your studying "for years" make you an authority. I'm sure in your mind it does, otherwise you would not have stated it.
Let's test assertion:
Have you studied John 3:16 for years too?
I'm wondering if you believe the word "Perish" means 'Eternal Damnation'? - that is the prevailing sentiment among christians.
 
Does your studying "for years" make you an authority. I'm sure in your mind it does, otherwise you would not have stated it.
Let's test assertion:
Have you studied John 3:16 for years too?
I'm wondering if you believe the word "Perish" means 'Eternal Damnation"? - that is the prevailing sentiment among christians.

If you've followed the other thread you'd know that I've already stated that the study time doesnt make me right. However, it has solidified my argument. I'm sure if a passage existed I'd have come across it or someone who holds that position would have presented it. In all these years no one has. And here again, you havent. That you havent posted such a passage speaks volumes.

Also, the perish means just that, perish. I'm not in the eternal torment camp.
 
If you've followed the other thread you'd know that I've already stated that the study time doesnt make me right. However, it has solidified my argument. I'm sure if a passage existed I'd have come across it or someone who holds that position would have presented it. In all these years no one has. And here again, you havent. That you havent posted such a passage speaks volumes.

Also, the perish means just that, perish. I'm not in the eternal torment camp.

Nothing speaks volumes until you get out of abstractions and isolate.
 
Wrong again.
I can't even say, "Nice try".
It says, "that they may be judged according to men in the flesh".
It is further clarified by going back to II Peter 3:18-19 of Jesus "who was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the spirt, BY WHICH also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison..."

Jesus not only talks to the physically dead, he meets with them - because Jesus is JESUS.

Yup, all people ever born will be raised unto "justification of life" :
Romans 5:17-18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

"ALL IN DUE TIME" - Like the header states.
"Every man in his own order" - I Cor 15:23
Hello @Primordial Light,

Your opinion of me is of no concern. I prefer to allow the word of God to be the Arbiter. Only He can give enlightenment.

May His Name be praised!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Hello @Primordial Light,

Your opinion of me is of no concern. I prefer to allow the word of God to be the Arbiter. Only He can give enlightenment.

May His Name be praised!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
You're seeing the Logos, in 'Due Time' the Holy Spirit will make it Rhema to you.

"Out of him, through him and to him are ALL THINGS" - The Word of God (Roman 11:36).

"Out of him are all things but only some things are through him and to him" - @complete

If my interpretatation of your translation of Romans 11:36 is inaccurate, give me your translation.
 
Take notice to the order of events in 2 Peter 3:18-19. He was dead, then quickened, then preached. So, he was alive when He did it. The Greek word translated preached isn't the word normally used of the Gospel. It means to herald or make a proclamation. If we read on Peter tells us what that proclamation was, that Demons were made subject to Him. He wasn't preaching the Godpel to the ghosts of dead people. He was proclaiming His superiority to demons in prison.
'For Christ also hath once suffered for sins,
the just for the unjust,
that He might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh,
but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient,
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing,
wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.'
(1 Peter 3:18-20)

Hello @Butch5,

I agree that the Lord heralded His victory over death and the grave to the 'spirits' (or fallen angels) which are imprisoned in Tartaroo. However, I thought @Primordial Light was referring to the physically dead of mankind, for the verses he referenced did not have application to 1 Peter 3:18-19, which is why I responded as I did in reply#22, I am glad you brought this out though.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Limited Atonement?

“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” Acts 20:28 (KJV 1900)

“Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.” Acts 2:47 (KJV 1900)
 
Limited Atonement?

“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” Acts 20:28 (KJV 1900)

“Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.” Acts 2:47 (KJV 1900)
'Praising God, and having favour with all the people.
And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.'

(Act 2:47)

'Take heed therefore unto yourselves,
and to all the flock,
over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers,
to feed the church of God,
which He hath purchased with His own blood.'

(Act 20:28)

Hello @Dave L ,

I am not acquainted with the term 'Limited Atonement'. Would you please explain it, and also why you have referenced Acts 20:28 and Acts 2:47 in relation to it?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
'Praising God, and having favour with all the people.
And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.'

(Act 2:47)

'Take heed therefore unto yourselves,
and to all the flock,
over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers,
to feed the church of God,
which He hath purchased with His own blood.'

(Act 20:28)

Hello @Dave L ,

I am not acquainted with the term 'Limited Atonement'. Would you please explain it, and also why you have referenced Acts 20:28 and Acts 2:47 in relation to it?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
It's point 3 in the 5 points of Calvinism.
The Five Points of Calvinism
SUBTOPICS

1) Total Depravity (16)

2) Unconditional Election (29)

3) Particular Redemption (29)

4) Effectual Grace (30)

5) Preservation of the Saints (37)



Multimedia - Calvinism (65)

David N. Steele & Curtis C. Thomas

The Five Points of Calvinism

Total Depravity

Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature; therefore, he will not—indeed he cannot—choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit’s assistance to bring a sinner to Christ—it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God’s gift of salvation—it is God’s gift to the sinner, not the sinner’s gift to God.

(Genesis 2:15-17, Romans 5:12, Psalm 51:5, 1 Corinthians 2:14, Romans 3:10-18, Jeremiah 17:9, John 6:44, Ephesians 2:1-10)

Unconditional Election

God’s choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response or obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selected. These acts are the result, not the cause of God’s choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God’s choice of the sinner, not the sinner’s choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation.

(Romans 9:10-21, Ephesians 1:4-11, Ephesians 2:4-10, Romans 8:29-30, Acts 11:18, Acts 13:48)

Limited Atonement

Christ’s redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them. His death was a substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ’s redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation, including faith which united them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, thereby guaranteeing their salvation.

(Matthew 1:21, Romans 5:12-21, Romans 3:21-26, Ephesians 2:8-10, Titus 3:5-6, Philippians 1:6, John 10:11-30, John 17:6-12, Romans 8:28-30, John 6:44, Acts 20:28)

Irresistible Grace

In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The external call (which is made to all without distinction) can be, and often is, rejected; whereas the internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected, it always results in conversion. By means of this special call the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man’s will, nor is He dependent upon man’s cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God’s grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended.

(John 3:16, Matthew 22:14, Acts 17:29-31, Matthew 23:37-39, John 6:44, Romans 8:28-30, John 1:12-13, John 3:1-8, Ephesians 2:8-10)

Perseverance of the Saints

All who were chosen by God, redeemed by Christ, and given faith by the Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God and thus persevere to the end.

(John 3:16, John 6:35-40, John 6:44, Philippians 1:6, Philippians 2:12-13, Jude 24-25, Ephesians 1:13-14, Romans 8:28-30, Romans 8:35-39)
 
It's point 3 in the 5 points of Calvinism.
The Five Points of Calvinism
SUBTOPICS

1) Total Depravity (16)
2) Unconditional Election (29)
3) Particular Redemption (29)
4) Effectual Grace (30)
5) Preservation of the Saints (37)

Multimedia - Calvinism (65)

David N. Steele & Curtis C. Thomas
The Five Points of Calvinism

Total Depravity

Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature; therefore, he will not—indeed he cannot—choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit’s assistance to bring a sinner to Christ—it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God’s gift of salvation—it is God’s gift to the sinner, not the sinner’s gift to God.

(Genesis 2:15-17, Romans 5:12, Psalm 51:5, 1 Corinthians 2:14, Romans 3:10-18, Jeremiah 17:9, John 6:44, Ephesians 2:1-10)

Unconditional Election

God’s choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response or obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selected. These acts are the result, not the cause of God’s choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God’s choice of the sinner, not the sinner’s choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation.

(Romans 9:10-21, Ephesians 1:4-11, Ephesians 2:4-10, Romans 8:29-30, Acts 11:18, Acts 13:48)

Limited Atonement

Christ’s redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them. His death was a substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ’s redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation, including faith which united them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, thereby guaranteeing their salvation.

(Matthew 1:21, Romans 5:12-21, Romans 3:21-26, Ephesians 2:8-10, Titus 3:5-6, Philippians 1:6, John 10:11-30, John 17:6-12, Romans 8:28-30, John 6:44, Acts 20:28)

Irresistible Grace

In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The external call (which is made to all without distinction) can be, and often is, rejected; whereas the internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected, it always results in conversion. By means of this special call the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man’s will, nor is He dependent upon man’s cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God’s grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended.

(John 3:16, Matthew 22:14, Acts 17:29-31, Matthew 23:37-39, John 6:44, Romans 8:28-30, John 1:12-13, John 3:1-8, Ephesians 2:8-10)

Perseverance of the Saints

All who were chosen by God, redeemed by Christ, and given faith by the Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God and thus persevere to the end.

(John 3:16, John 6:35-40, John 6:44, Philippians 1:6, Philippians 2:12-13, Jude 24-25, Ephesians 1:13-14, Romans 8:28-30, Romans 8:35-39)
Hello @Dave L,

Thank you for supplying the information you have, not only on 'Limited Atonement' which I asked for, but on all of the five points of Calvinism. There is much here which in itself is worthy of study, isn't there Dave? 'Limited Atonement' is obviously your response to the reasoning of the OP, which expresses a universalist belief that all will be saved, am I right?

* I would like to consider limited atonement sometime in a thread devoted to it, but to enter into it here, in the manner I would like, would perhaps derail the thread.

Thank you again,
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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