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Jesus "Who gave himself a ransom for all to be testified in due time" - I Timothy 2:6

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Member
This sounds like Hebrews 2:8
"Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him".
What do you think @complete and @Admon Mikha'el
 
Active
This sounds like Hebrews 2:8
"Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him".
What do you think @complete and @Admon Mikha'el
'For there is one God,
and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave Himself a ransom for all,
to be testified in due time.'
(1 Timothy 2:5-6)

'Thou madest Him a little lower than the angels;
Thou crownedst Him with glory and honour,
and didst set Him over the works of thy hands:
Thou hast put all things in subjection under His feet.
For in that He put all in subjection under Him,
He left nothing that is not put under Him.
But now we see not yet all things put under Him.'
(Hebrews 2:7-8)

Hello @Primordial Light,

Thank you for inviting me along to compare these two verses with you.

Both verses use the word 'ALL'. 1 Timothy 2:6, that Christ Jesus gave Himself a ransom for ALL, and Hebrews 2:8. that though ALL THINGS have been put in subjection under Christ's feet , as yet we do not see ALL THINGS put under Him.

In regard to 1 Timothy 2:6. and the fact that Christ Jesus, now risen and glorified, gave Himself a ransom for ALL, we know that not ALL will receive Him (John 1:11-12), therefore not avail themselves of the ransom price He paid by the laying down of His own life, that they may be saved.

In Hebrews 8, and the ALL THINGS which are not yet put under Him, we know that His ultimate victory will be achieved by ruling with a rod of iron (Revelation 19:15), and that even so there are those who will choose judgment and death rather than submit to His rule and authority (eg., Revelation 20:8-9).

'For He must reign,
till He hath put ALL enemies
under His feet.'
(1 Corinthians 15:25)

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Member
'For there is one God,
and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave Himself a ransom for all,
to be testified in due time.'
(1 Timothy 2:5-6)

'Thou madest Him a little lower than the angels;
Thou crownedst Him with glory and honour,
and didst set Him over the works of thy hands:
Thou hast put all things in subjection under His feet.
For in that He put all in subjection under Him,
He left nothing that is not put under Him.
But now we see not yet all things put under Him.'
(Hebrews 2:7-8)

Hello @Primordial Light,

Thank you for inviting me along to compare these two verses with you.

Both verses use the word 'ALL'. 1 Timothy 2:6, that Christ Jesus gave Himself a ransom for ALL, and Hebrews 2:8. that though ALL THINGS have been put in subjection under Christ's feet , as yet we do not see ALL THINGS put under Him.

In regard to 1 Timothy 2:6. and the fact that Christ Jesus, now risen and glorified, gave Himself a ransom for ALL, we know that not ALL will receive Him (John 1:11-12), therefore not avail themselves of the ransom price He paid by the laying down of His own life, that they may be saved.

In Hebrews 8, and the ALL THINGS which are not yet put under Him, we know that His ultimate victory will be achieved by ruling with a rod of iron (Revelation 19:15), and that even so there are those who will choose judgment and death rather than submit to His rule and authority (eg., Revelation 20:8-9).

'For He must reign,
till He hath put ALL enemies
under His feet.'
(1 Corinthians 15:25)

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank yous
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Oh no, what a horrible feeling you must have that JESUS CHRIST will FAIL IN THE WILL OF THE FATHER -

John 6:39 "And this is the Father’s will who hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the Last Day.

And of course, we know from John 17:1-3 The Father placed all things into Jesus hands -

"Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as
You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He [a]should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him".

Sounds like "Another gospel, another spirit and another Jesus" - II Cor 11:4
 
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Active
Oh no, what a horrible feeling you must have that JESUS CHRIST will FAIL IN THE WILL OF THE FATHER -

John 6:39 "And this is the Father’s will who hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the Last Day.

And of course, we know from John 17:1-3 The Father placed all things into Jesus hands -

"Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as
You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He [a]should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him".

Sounds like "Another gospel, another spirit and another Jesus" - II Cor 11:4
Hello again, @Primordial Light,

Thank you for responding to my post. However you are quite mistaken if you believe that I have any thought that the Lord Jesus Christ has failed in securing the will of the Father.

* In regard to John 6:39, it says clearly, ' ... that of all which He ( the Father ) hath given Me I should lose nothing ... '. This is true, and will be accomplished.

* In regard to John 17:2, ' ... As Thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as Thou hast given Him. ...' Here, again, it is clearly stated that eternal life would be given to as many as the Father had given Him. It will indeed be done.

* You invited me to join you in considering these verses, so please do me the curtesy of not accusing me of 'preaching another gospel'.

'He came unto His own,
and His own received Him not.
But as many as received Him,
to them gave He power to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on His Name: ... '

(John 1:11-12)

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Active
Hello @Premordial Light,

When I saw that you were inviting me to consider the verses of the OP, the thought crossed my mind, 'Come into my parlour said the spider to the fly', and I dismissed it, for why should one believer seek to entrap another in order to achieve his own ends? But now I see that this was indeed your intention. I am sorry that you should feel it necessary to use such tactics to prove your point, but thankfully it has failed.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris
 
Member
Hello again, @Primordial Light,

Thank you for responding to my post. However you are quite mistaken if you believe that I have any thought that the Lord Jesus Christ has failed in securing the will of the Father.

* In regard to John 6:39, it says clearly, ' ... that of all which He ( the Father ) hath given Me I should lose nothing ... '. This is true, and will be accomplished.

* In regard to John 17:2, ' ... As Thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as Thou hast given Him. ...' Here, again, it is clearly stated that eternal life would be given to as many as the Father had given Him. It will indeed be done.

* You invited me to join you in considering these verses, so please do me the curtesy of not accusing me of 'preaching another gospel'.

'He came unto His own,
and His own received Him not.
But as many as received Him,
to them gave He power to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on His Name: ... '

(John 1:11-12)

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
So you're saying the Father has not given Jesus authority over all flesh?
 
Active
So you're saying the Father has not given Jesus authority over all flesh?
Hello again, @Primordial Light,

False accusations are not becoming for a child of God! For I did not say any such thing, as you well know.
The Word of God says:-

'As Thou hast given Him power over all flesh,
that He should give eternal life
to as many as Thou hast given Him.'

(John 17:2)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Member
Hello again, @Primordial Light,

False accusations are not becoming for a child of God! For I did not say any such thing, as you well know.
The Word of God says:-

'As Thou hast given Him power over all flesh,
that He should give eternal life
to as many as Thou hast given Him.'

(John 17:2)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
It was a question not an accusation.
Having settled that, then we need to look again at what John 6:39 heralds:
"And this is the Father’s will who hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me (All Flesh) I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the Last Day.

Since you've agreed that the Father has give Jesus authority OVER ALL FLESH, then how can anyone believe Jesus will lose even one?
Thus, JESUS said, "Behold I make ALL THINGS NEW" - Rev 21:5.
Which is the same as Romans 11:36 From out of him and through him and TO HIM ARE ALL THINGS".

The "many" the Father gave Jesus = "ALL FLesh".
 
Active
This sounds like Hebrews 2:8
"Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him".
What do you think @complete and @Admon Mikha'el
This passage is speaking of man. In Genesis God told man to rule over the creation. However, man messed it up and brought the curse. That's why he says we do not yet see all things put under him. It's going to happen in the future.
 
Active
It was a question not an accusation.
Having settled that, then we need to look again at what John 6:39 heralds:
"And this is the Father’s will who hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me (All Flesh) I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the Last Day.

Since you've agreed that the Father has give Jesus authority OVER ALL FLESH, then how can anyone believe Jesus will lose even one?
Thus, JESUS said, "Behold I make ALL THINGS NEW" - Rev 21:5.
Which is the same as Romans 11:36 From out of him and through him and TO HIM ARE ALL THINGS".

The "many" the Father gave Jesus = "ALL FLesh".
John 6:39 is referring to the disciples that Jesus had. Those the Father had given Him were the apostles. If we look at John 17 Jesus speaks to the Father about all those He had given Him. And, one of them was lost. Judas was one of those given to Jesus by the Father and Jesus said he was lost.
 
Member
John 6:39 is referring to the disciples that Jesus had. Those the Father had given Him were the apostles. If we look at John 17 Jesus speaks to the Father about all those He had given Him. And, one of them was lost. Judas was one of those given to Jesus by the Father and Jesus said he was lost.
Judas was lost for a time, but he'll be made new too, as Jesus said in Rev 21:5.

"Love never fails" - I Cor 13:8
 
Active
It was a question not an accusation.
Having settled that, then we need to look again at what John 6:39 heralds:
"And this is the Father’s will who hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me (All Flesh) I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the Last Day.

Since you've agreed that the Father has give Jesus authority OVER ALL FLESH, then how can anyone believe Jesus will lose even one?
Thus, JESUS said, "Behold I make ALL THINGS NEW" - Rev 21:5.
Which is the same as Romans 11:36 From out of him and through him and TO HIM ARE ALL THINGS".

The "many" the Father gave Jesus = "ALL FLesh".
Thank you @Primordial Light,

But I have answered this already in previous responses.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Member
@
Hello @Premordial Light,

When I saw that you were inviting me to consider the verses of the OP, the thought crossed my mind, 'Come into my parlour said the spider to the fly', and I dismissed it, for why should one believer seek to entrap another in order to achieve his own ends? But now I see that this was indeed your intention. I am sorry that you should feel it necessary to use such tactics to prove your point, but thankfully it has failed.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris
Happily, the Gospel that God preached to Abraham never fails -

Galatians 3:8, KJV: "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed." ...

Someday it will be preached in the churches around the world too.

Psalm 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,’
 
Active
@


Happily, the Gospel that God preached to Abraham never fails -

Galatians 3:8, KJV: "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed." ...

Someday it will be preached in the churches around the world too.

Psalm 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,’
Hello @Primordial Light,

Forgive me if I have misjudged you.

The good news of justification by faith has and will be preached, but the Scriptures reveal that not all will receive it. This is not a failure on God's part, but on man's part for failing to believe what He has said.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Active
Hello @Primordial Light,

Please forgive me if I have misjudged you.

The good news of justification by faith has and will be preached, but the Scriptures reveal that not all will receive it. That is not a failure on God's part, but on man's part in failing to believe what He has said.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Member
Hello @Primordial Light,

Forgive me if I have misjudged you.

The good news of justification by faith has and will be preached, but the Scriptures reveal that not all will receive it. This is not a failure on God's part, but on man's part for failing to believe what He has said.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
The real issue damnationist's have is this - you have no scripture which says men cannot call upon the Lord after physical death -
(That is for all those "who live after the flesh and die" (Rom 8:13).)

You need to mediate on Romans 9:16 until the light goes on - "
"It IS NOT of him that WILLETH OR RUNNETH, but GOD THAT SHOWS MERCY"

The mercy of God never fails, and - "God shall be ALL IN ALL" - I Cor 15:28

@complete Then think about John 5:21 "The son Quickenth WHOM HE WILL"

Then muse upon John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

This is why Romans 11:32 heralds
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
 
Active
The real issue damnationist's have is this - you have no scripture which says men cannot call upon the Lord after physical death -
(That is for all those "who live after the flesh and die" (Rom 8:13).)

You need to mediate on Romans 9:16 until the light goes on - "
"It IS NOT of him that WILLETH OR RUNNETH, but GOD THAT SHOWS MERCY"

The mercy of God never fails, and - "God shall be ALL IN ALL" - I Cor 15:28

@complete Then think about John 5:21 "The son Quickenth WHOM HE WILL"

Then muse upon John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

This is why Romans 11:32 heralds
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Likewise you have no Scripture that says men can call on the Lord after death. Assumed in your statement is that men are somehow alive after death. However, the Bible teaches no such thing.
 
Active
The real issue damnationist's have is this - you have no scripture which says men cannot call upon the Lord after physical death -
(That is for all those "who live after the flesh and die" (Rom 8:13).)

You need to mediate on Romans 9:16 until the light goes on - "
"It IS NOT of him that WILLETH OR RUNNETH, but GOD THAT SHOWS MERCY"

The mercy of God never fails, and - "God shall be ALL IN ALL" - I Cor 15:28

@complete Then think about John 5:21 "The son Quickenth WHOM HE WILL"

Then muse upon John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

This is why Romans 11:32 heralds
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Hello Primordial Light,

You do love categorising people don't you? Damnationists? That's a new one, for me at least.

* You say, 'you have no scripture which says men cannot call upon the Lord after physical death'. Well I suggest you read Hezekiah's words from Isaiah 38:-

'For the grave cannot praise Thee,
death can not celebrate Thee:
they that go down into the pit cannot hope for Thy truth.
The living, the living, he shall praise Thee,
as I do this day:
the father to the children shall make known Thy truth.'
(Isaiah 38:18)

* In regard to the verse you refer me to ie., John 5:21, Yes, the Lord will 'quicken whom He will', Yet, I suggest you keep it in context, and read on, for John 5:29 says:-

'And shall come forth;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.'
(Joh 5:29)

* Now I am going to get off this merry-go-round, for it has no end.

Within the Love of Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris
 
Member
Likewise you have no Scripture that says men can call on the Lord after death. Assumed in your statement is that men are somehow alive after death. However, the Bible teaches no such thing.
Here is some more shock and awe for you -
I Peter 4:6 "For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Rejoice @Butch5 - God is bigger than you imagine.

You should have asked me if there is any scripture, rather than make a baseless assumption.
 
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