“Come out of her, my people, that you may not participate in her sins and that you may not receive of her plagues;

[PloughBoy]

This parallel of the biblical text of the book of The Revelation of “Jesus Christ” it seems so match “The institutional church” of this day, it is frightening! But not only in “Revelation” but snap shots through out the Bible, What is kinda weird, you don’t have to dig this stuff out, especially when after years and years you have read the Bible from front to back so many times. It looks like everything concerning this “snap shot” is so highly “illuminated “. It is scary. So are there anyone else , see this? Just read this.

 

[PloughBoy]

1After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory. 2And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.3“For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts ofimmorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality.”
4I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues; 5for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. (Rev. 18:1-..ff).

 

[David1954]

"... no man buyeth their merchandise anymore: The merchandise of gold, and silver ... and souls of men." Rev. 18:11-13.

 

[PloughBoy]

Most of the World makes more money off the “institutional church” that any other institution in the world” but it seems that does in closing.

(CNSNews.com) – A new analysis from Georgetown University that attempts to document the economic value of religion in U.S. society found that the faith sector is worth $1.2 trillion, more than the combined revenue of the top 10 technology companies in the country, including Apple, Amazon, and Google. Take note: that just the United States. Most likely it is double that!

 

[I love the Lord]

That's the fruit. On their fruit you will know them. And from those, stay away. Prosperity teaching is a lie from the devil.

 

[PloughBoy]

 

[I love the Lord]

Take away the tax status, and you have half the problem at least.
When you allow, it persist. When a pastor, anyone, starts to go that direction, one has to act.

 

[Hekuran]

Most of the World makes more money off the “institutional church” that any other institution in the world” but it seems that does in closing.

(CNSNews.com) – A new analysis from Georgetown University that attempts to document the economic value of religion in U.S. society found that the faith sector is worth $1.2 trillion, more than the combined revenue of the top 10 technology companies in the country, including Apple, Amazon, and Google. Take note: that just the United States. Most likely it is double that!

What do you mean by 'institutional church'? Every fellowship must have some kind of institution if it's to last more than a few years.

You need an institution to set out how and when decisions are made, how resources are used, when discipline is appropriate. The new testament churches had leaders and elders - how do you agree on who should be an elder without some kind of institution.

Acts 6 begins with the apostles urging the church to select seven men to administer the sharing of the common goods. This is also a kind of institution.

So, is there such a thing as a non-institutional church, and where could I find it?

 

[PloughBoy]

Ok, let me see, I will try to make this simple and plain.
1st. Question. What is a “institutional church”?
Ans.”Google” It. It can give a better description than I.

And I sure agree with you on this one. 100%
“You said: Every fellowship must have some kind of institution if it's to last more than a few years.”

We must all thank God, that His “Congregation “ is not like “The Institutionalise Church”
Thank God, all ye people of His!

International Standard Version
I tell you that you are Peter, and it is on this rock [Jesus] that I will build my congregation, and the powers of hell will not conquer it.

And concerning the “7 men” it makes plenty of sense. There was “No Social Services” it was great “Poverty” in that era of time!!!! Historical fact! Why do you think the people said: “ Hosanna, Hosanna here comes the King”!

the Last question you ask:
“So, is there such a thing as a non-institutional church, and where could I find it?”

Ans. YES! It is not made by the hands of a man! It is Invisiable it is “The Congregation of The Living GOD”. And HE is still building it and we HIS people are “Living Stones” and He is the “Chief Cornerstone “!

American Standard Version
ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
(1Peter 2:5).

And concerning “Discipline”

International Standard Version
For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he punishes every son he accepts." (Hebrews 12:6).

GOD, has His own covered! He watches over us day and night!

Shalom! My brother! For You are the Temple of the Living God! He does not dwell in brick & Mortar! Now live like it!!!!!

 

[Hekuran]

I was asking what you meant by 'institutionaled church'. If I'd wanted an answer from google, I know how to do that. What do you mean by the term? Is it any fellowship gathering at all, for example. And if not, what kinds of christian community are non-institutional?

 

[PloughBoy]

When you what to know what a word means or a phrase or title of something. You look it up, in “Dictionary” or a “Encyclopaedia“ or what a title is. “Institutional church” has one universal meaning. Just like the the word “Automobile” or “Airplane”. These words are universal. So when I say; Airplane or dog would you ask me what do I mean. Of course not. google it. Shalom.

 

[Hekuran]

Why so evasive? It's not a trick question.

If you won't answer in general terms, here's my own specific situation.

I belong to a church fellowship of about 120 people. We have two full time paid pastors and a part time administrator. They get paid a fair wage, but are certainly not getting wealthy. We own one building and rent another from which the admin, youth work, mid week meetings, street pastors, food bank and evangelism is centred. On sundays we hire a hall to meet, because neither is large enough to accommodate the congregation.

There are institutions - a committee of elders, people with legal responsibility to manage the finances, contracts for the paid staff, set processes for decisions. The church does not belong to a denomination, but it is in a group of similar fellowships in this part of the city. We belong to several national church alliances of different kinds.

From my description, is this an institutional church? What other questions would you need to ask to be able to judge if it is?

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings @PloughBoy ,

I think that the following is as straightforward as it needs to be.

I was asking what you meant by 'institutionaled church'. If I'd wanted an answer from google, I know how to do that. What do you mean by the term?

Please slow down a bit because it seems that you have not understood the question. Why 'gooogle it when he can and has asked you what you mean, so he can understand what you mean and follow your line of thought and then respond accordingly?

Post in Peace
Jesus is Lord


Bless you ....><>

 

[PloughBoy]

Ok, thanks! I understand it fully now, Sometimes it is kinda hard to tell the truth, because it is hard. Ok here is a straight answer. Yes it is a “Institutional Church” not only is it a “institutionalise church” it is a “Cult” that you have describe. Just look at the activities you have describe. Look at where the attention is directed. “Plus. You have to see it yourself”. Little key things. Not matching “Scripture”, The sense of not having a fresh freedom, Money being payout to advance the “Kingdom”. Just the “little foxes”. Next I don’t know if you are married or not but if you are, who is the “Pastor” of your Family, who is the “pastor” of your wife. Who is the “Teacher” of your children and wife. Just the little things shows up on in your mind, through the “light” of Scripture. I hope none of this confuse you. But hear this, it is going to be a battle! If you do understand what I have said!

 

[Hekuran]

Ok. If this is an institutional church by your understanding, and therefore a part of Babylon, what in your view is the proper way for Christians to meet worship, learn and support each other?

 

[PloughBoy]

Honestly, not being rude. We In the sheep fold , have one shepherd, He calls each one of us by name, and we know His voice. Notice I said. One flock. We are all over the world, but one flock. One shepherd, one guide, one “church”. He said: he would send back another “Paraclete “ and He will always be with you and guide you into all truths. All truth. When Peter walk out there on that water, he began to sink.

(Matthew 14).
29And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. 30But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. 31And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? 32And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.
Trust HIM, You will not drown,

 

[Hekuran]

That's not rude, but it's not entirely clear what practical action follows from this. Should I cut myself off from Christian brothers and sisters and no longer attend collective worship?

 

[PloughBoy]

You can never cut your self off from the body of Christ, even when you leave your body, now if you feel comfortable. Don’t let any of my statements give you ill feelings ok. When it is time you will know what to do.

 

[Hekuran]

Surely I should immediately cut all ties with my '***** of Babylon' Christian fellowship. But with what do I replace it?

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Revelation 18:4

Greetings @Hekuran @PloughBoy

I wondered does this verse rather refer to getting away from the unfruitful works of darkness......which in these last day are rife in many "institutional church organisations"

Surely not all gatherings of believers fall into this category?

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths.
Be not wise in thine own eyes
Proverbs 3:5-7