John 3:7

[David1954]

But if I were in your position, I would endeavor to inquire.

I listened to everyone. I went to every church and denomination.

Not just Catholics and Lutherans, but Presbyterians, Methodists, Wesleyans, Episcopalians, and, yes, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. Church of Christ, even.

 

[rhern53]

I know Catholics and Orthodox and Protestants are offended that I tell them they have invented a meaning for "born again" because they don't know what it means.

What does it mean? do you really know or are you playing games

 

[Sue D.]

@ David 1954 -- why would you do That when Jesus Christ tells us that HE is the Way, the Truth and the Life and that no man comes to the Father but through Him?

The Lutherans, Presby, Methodists , Wesleyans -- Wesleyans are part Of the Methodists. I'm thinking that those are of some variation of Calvinism / Armenianism. And Presbyterians might sprinkle infants. But other wise are Gospel unto salvation 'people' The RCC and the others you mentioned are Not.

A person trying to sift through all of those belief systems are Going to be confused.

 

[Sue D.]

God submerges a person in the Holy Spirit, providing a person a direct subjective communion with Him.

Well -- as a result Of salvation -- the Holy Spirit does come immediately to indwell the person. But what takes place in order to That To happen. From Your perspective. How did that take place in Your life?

 

[David1954]

What does it mean? do you really know or are you playing games

I know exactly what it means. It is what the Pentecostals once discovered and used to teach. But now the Assembly of God teaches their members to fake it.

 

[rhern53]

I know Catholics and Orthodox and Protestants are offended that I tell them they have invented a meaning for "born again" because they don't know what it means.

What does it mean? do you really know or are you playing games

 

[Sue D.]

So -- you believe that speaking in tongues shows that a person has been saved? Or that speaking in tongues actually saves a person. Because neither are correct.

Speaking in tongues is but one of many spiritual gifts that the Holy Spirit does give to a born-again believer upon their salvation. A prayer language is something different. that's a more personal 'thing' between a person and God.

There was a lady I'd known years ago who went to a church that gave a class for learning how to speak in tongues. That's Not something that is taught. A person either has that gift or they don't.

 

[David1954]

Listen to Sue D. She, and Catholics and Orthodox and Protestants, say, the Holy Spirit does come immediately to indwell the person.

Something they invent happens.

In reality, a saint experiences what happened in Acts 2, and and Acts 8, Acts 10.

 

[David1954]

The Pentecostals told the truth, but by know, the Assembly of God just wants to make money, like all the other Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant denominations.

 

[Sue D.]

To let you know -- I'm NOT RCC --I Am conservative Baptist. The RCC do Not follow Scripture.

And What does ' making money' have to do with Any of this?

 

[B-A-C]

The Pentecostals told the truth, but by know, the Assembly of God just wants to make money,

Unfortunately true in some cases. But not all. You can't judge an entire denomination by a few churches.

In reality, a saint experiences what happened in Acts 2, and and Acts 8, Acts 10.

I tend to agree somewhat with you here, but the infilling of the Holy Spirit, is different from the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Infilling vs Baptism in the Holy Spirit

The 120 people in the upper room in Acts 2. The 11 apostles (minus Judas) and Mary were there. Were they saved before this day? The apostles had already been following Jesus for 3 years. Were they ever baptized in the Holy Spirit before this day? OK, so that was the first time for anyone...

www.talkjesus.com

Holy Spirit vs Baptism of Holy Spirit

It's come up more times than I can count here on TJ. But virtually all Pentecostals believe in something called the "Baptism" of the Holy Spirit. There are many terms used interchangeably... Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost, Infilling, or indwelling of the Holy Spirit vs the Baptism of the Holy Spirit...

www.talkjesus.com

 

[David1954]

I tend to agree somewhat with you here, but the infilling of the Holy Spirit, is different from the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Aha!

I experienced beautiful and glorious joy peace and love after my eyes were opened to hear the Bible.

I didn't know there was a name for that!

 

[Sue D.]

All that I will add to this conversation is that I was able to read and understand Scripture Before I accepted Christ as my personal Savior. As a Result Of my salvation the Holy Spirit came and indwelled me. That gave me inner peace that had not been in my heart previously. Since then, every once in a while, a passage Will have a slightly more impact on me.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is when He does come to indwell at the moment Of salvation. He becomes our Spiritual 'tank'. That 'spiritual' tank won't always be completely on Full. But we Will be growing more and more in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ during the rest of our lives. We Do need to be 'eating' daily from Scripture / praying / talking to God often which is what I'd call the 'infilliing' of the Holy Spirit -- keeping our 'spiritual' tank at a good level. Fellow shipping with fellow believers often / regularly.

Our gas tank in our car. We fill it on a regular basis. When we drive a lot, we need to keep putting more gas in the tank. We are careful to watch the gas level indicator so as to not run out of gas before we get to a gas station.

It's been compared to our physical bodies. We grow physically and then keep our bodies in good shape by what we put in them. We Need to put good nutricious food In and keep harmful stuff Out.

I think we All feel better when we've 'given' of what we've 'received'. And That is what believers are Supposed to be doing. Sharing with others what we've been learning.

 

[David1954]

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is when He does come to indwell at the moment Of salvation.

Baptism in the Spirit is what happened in Acts chapters 2 and 8 and 10.

 

[David1954]

But Catholics and Orthodox and 999,999,999 Protestants agree with you.

 

[David1954]

No, I meant, 99.9% if Protestants.

 

[David1954]

* of

 

[David1954]

So, like .01% of Christians in the world have actually been baptized in the Spirit.

 

[Sue D.]

I'm not concerned with statistics -- we Are talking about human beings and their salvation.

 

[David1954]

We are talking about Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant Christians who have not been baptized in the Spirit inventing a doctrine that explains it away.