Can you be both Liberal and Christian?

[Rad]

Hello Rad,
It's okay to ask. I don't mind answering. In my State you can only vote in the Primaries of the Party you belong to. Meaning, as an independent I can't vote in the Democratic or Republican Primaries. I have to wait until the General Election before being able to caste a vote. Sometimes I will see someone in one or both of the Parties Primaries that I hope will win, so I can vote for them in the General Election, but as you can imagine that doesn't happen too often. So, my choices in the General Election are limited to who the two major parties voters have selected to run. Sadly, money drives the running for office, which is the case even in the small state that I happen to live in (Delaware).

The Major National elections that are Presidential are even more difficult to sort out as an independent, since once again. I'm not allowed to vote in the Primaries of either of the Major Parties. So, truth be told, the best I can do is truly seek to place my vote without considering the Party Platform, and History, which is really ugly on both sides, but seek in prayer to place my vote on who adheres closer to Scripture. Which can be a difficult task, when you see both as being reprobates! In that case, the Party Platform, and History might influence me in what direction I should go. No easy task Brother!

In the last Presidential Election's Primaries I actually switched Parties (Republican), so that I could vote for a person that I believed was a Christian who not only talked, but walked the walk as well. When push came to shove, he disappointed me, because he took the bait, and moved away from the Christian principals he spoke of and hoped that he'd adhere to throughout the campaigning.

Anyway, when there are choices to be made on who to vote for, it you include the Party Platform to the equation. It becomes even more taxing on ones ability to choose, but adding the Party Platforms, and History together can help tilt the scales one way or another. An example of this, would be if the U.S.A were engaged in a War. Regardless of how one might feel about the justification of having gotten in the conflict in the first place. Oddly, enough, Historically speaking, the Republican Party Representatives have done a better job of fighting Wars, then the Democrats have. Now, if Social Issues need to come to the front, then in most cases the Democrats have shown themselves to be more sensitive/compassionate to seeking a way of alleviating that issue. In both cases, it doesn't guarantee the result as being successful, but it helps to recognize who appears better able to succeed if given the opportunity to do so. Meaning, I won't hire an electrician, if my plumbing has sprung a leak or a plumber if my car is broken. Takes effort on ones part, but prayer and in truth knowing Scripture helps a lot. One must have a standard to go by, if one is to compare Party Doctrine.

Voting Party Lines, might get an occasional solid person in, but also in many cases, also allows those who shouldn't be voted in. Even if the office were for Dog Catcher. :smile: So, if a person voting is going the Party Lines route, I'd suggest they stop doing so. Instead seek that person whose behavior, words, adhere closer to God's Words. Might require an effort on ones part, because of the amount of data that is available out there that is both pro & con, but being faithful requires at times some hard work. I'm sure you realize this, as you have seen by having compiled the data on the Republicans, and if you haven't started already, on the Democrats as well. I suggest that people don't get too overwhelmed in doing so. It can be a weight upon ones Spirit the amount of information that is available to wade through, and ultimately may not help you decide anyway!

Ultimately, I believe that God will provide the authority that we should have, and probably the one we deserve to have. Be that positive or negative. We forget that the pool from which the officials who are voted into office come from, is the very Society that is Worldly and has no love for the Christian. So, if I know a professing Christian is running, I don't expect perfection, what I desire most of all is honesty. That person, will get my vote, unless I'm moved to not vote.

I hope this explains a bit of where I come from as it pertains to this "Party" discussion and why I suggested you research the Democrats in the same fashion you did the Republicans. Another similarity that might help you, is in the form of a question. Which Christian church is God's Favorite? The best I can come up with is the one that is doing His Will and have not forgotten their first Love.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Many thanks for that Nick, you've explained the mechanics of how the voting system works and the rationale behind your choice of candidate, but if you could, i would be interested in the specific policies and values that made you, as a Christian, vote for a particular candidate, especially if that candidate was Trump, given that he seemingly ran a Campaign based on Nationalism, Racism, Xenophobia, Fear and Hate , was involved in numerous Sexual Scandals and allegations of Sexual Assault, is a multi Millionaire Businessman who has been convicted of financial irregularities, and made his money in somewhat dubious circumstances and gives the impression of being Bigoted, Arrogant, Bullying, Manipulative and not averse to advocating violence as a way of dealing with his Political Enemies,..... how does any of that concur with Christs teachings?.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Many thanks for that Nick, you've explained the mechanics of how the voting system works and the rationale behind your choice of candidate, but if you could, i would be interested in the specific policies and values that made you, as a Christian, vote for a particular candidate, especially if that candidate was Trump, given that he seemingly ran a Campaign based on Nationalism, Racism, Xenophobia, Fear and Hate , was involved in numerous Sexual Scandals and allegations of Sexual Assault, is a multi Millionaire Businessman who has been convicted of financial irregularities, and made his money in somewhat dubious circumstances and gives the impression of being Bigoted, Arrogant, Bullying, Manipulative and not averse to advocating violence as a way of dealing with his Political Enemies,..... how does any of that concur with Christs teachings?.

Hello Rad,
No problemo. First care to outline the opponent of that Election as you did Donald Trump?
All I ask is for you to be even handed in assessing the individuals who are running for office, be they here in the U.S.A or when you determine who to vote for in the U.K.

Now what is it that a Christian should look for in a Candidate? That is really the question you want answered.

[Pro 14:34 KJV] 34 Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin [is] a reproach to any people.
[Pro 29:2 KJV] 2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

Now more then ever the people are responsible for the character of the Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless, and corrupt it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness, and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave, and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in a national legislature. James Garfield

So, take it upon yourself to know Scripture, know the people who are running for office, and the policies that you see them running on, and ask yourself. Do the lives they live and the policies they promote adhere to Scripture?

Now if you're curious on how Donald Trump could have won the Presidency being the person he is. You'll have to give the opposition a through research as well. Otherwise you'll have a difficult time seeing how others could have voted for him, and not anyone else.

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Brad Huber]

Many thanks for that Nick, you've explained the mechanics of how the voting system works and the rationale behind your choice of candidate, but if you could, i would be interested in the specific policies and values that made you, as a Christian, vote for a particular candidate, especially if that candidate was Trump, given that he seemingly ran a Campaign based on Nationalism, Racism, Xenophobia, Fear and Hate , was involved in numerous Sexual Scandals and allegations of Sexual Assault, is a multi Millionaire Businessman who has been convicted of financial irregularities, and made his money in somewhat dubious circumstances and gives the impression of being Bigoted, Arrogant, Bullying, Manipulative and not averse to advocating violence as a way of dealing with his Political Enemies,..... how does any of that concur with Christs teachings?.

In addition to Nick's answer, also take into account the media which is run by people who dont simply print the news, but focus on stories that furthers their agenda (of the news organization owners), and slants the news they do print to either disgrace one person, or to give a pass on others who do bad things but do the biding of the media moguls who decide how they want people to think.

 

[Bill]

Hello Rad,
It's okay to ask. I don't mind answering. In my State you can only vote in the Primaries of the Party you belong to. Meaning, as an independent I can't vote in the Democratic or Republican Primaries. I have to wait until the General Election before being able to caste a vote. Sometimes I will see someone in one or both of the Parties Primaries that I hope will win, so I can vote for them in the General Election, but as you can imagine that doesn't happen too often. So, my choices in the General Election are limited to who the two major parties voters have selected to run. Sadly, money drives the running for office, which is the case even in the small state that I happen to live in (Delaware).

The Major National elections that are Presidential are even more difficult to sort out as an independent, since once again. I'm not allowed to vote in the Primaries of either of the Major Parties. So, truth be told, the best I can do is truly seek to place my vote without considering the Party Platform, and History, which is really ugly on both sides, but seek in prayer to place my vote on who adheres closer to Scripture. Which can be a difficult task, when you see both as being reprobates! In that case, the Party Platform, and History might influence me in what direction I should go. No easy task Brother!

In the last Presidential Election's Primaries I actually switched Parties (Republican), so that I could vote for a person that I believed was a Christian who not only talked, but walked the walk as well. When push came to shove, he disappointed me, because he took the bait, and moved away from the Christian principals he spoke of and hoped that he'd adhere to throughout the campaigning.

Anyway, when there are choices to be made on who to vote for, it you include the Party Platform to the equation. It becomes even more taxing on ones ability to choose, but adding the Party Platforms, and History together can help tilt the scales one way or another. An example of this, would be if the U.S.A were engaged in a War. Regardless of how one might feel about the justification of having gotten in the conflict in the first place. Oddly, enough, Historically speaking, the Republican Party Representatives have done a better job of fighting Wars, then the Democrats have. Now, if Social Issues need to come to the front, then in most cases the Democrats have shown themselves to be more sensitive/compassionate to seeking a way of alleviating that issue. In both cases, it doesn't guarantee the result as being successful, but it helps to recognize who appears better able to succeed if given the opportunity to do so. Meaning, I won't hire an electrician, if my plumbing has sprung a leak or a plumber if my car is broken. Takes effort on ones part, but prayer and in truth knowing Scripture helps a lot. One must have a standard to go by, if one is to compare Party Doctrine.

Voting Party Lines, might get an occasional solid person in, but also in many cases, also allows those who shouldn't be voted in. Even if the office were for Dog Catcher. :smile: So, if a person voting is going the Party Lines route, I'd suggest they stop doing so. Instead seek that person whose behavior, words, adhere closer to God's Words. Might require an effort on ones part, because of the amount of data that is available out there that is both pro & con, but being faithful requires at times some hard work. I'm sure you realize this, as you have seen by having compiled the data on the Republicans, and if you haven't started already, on the Democrats as well. I suggest that people don't get too overwhelmed in doing so. It can be a weight upon ones Spirit the amount of information that is available to wade through, and ultimately may not help you decide anyway!

Ultimately, I believe that God will provide the authority that we should have, and probably the one we deserve to have. Be that positive or negative. We forget that the pool from which the officials who are voted into office come from, is the very Society that is Worldly and has no love for the Christian. So, if I know a professing Christian is running, I don't expect perfection, what I desire most of all is honesty. That person, will get my vote, unless I'm moved to not vote.

I hope this explains a bit of where I come from as it pertains to this "Party" discussion and why I suggested you research the Democrats in the same fashion you did the Republicans. Another similarity that might help you, is in the form of a question. Which Christian church is God's Favorite? The best I can come up with is the one that is doing His Will and have not forgotten their first Love.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Very well thought out answer. Sir

 

[Bill]

In the same venue of Christ4ever's reply. The question of this thread,, can you be Christian and have a Liberal mindset, or follow Liberal views.

The Liberal views as well as where the conservative views tend to be leading is disturbing to me. All or nothing.

When Jesus preached the Beatitudes, or the Parables. The only absolute was to have Compassion or love.

If love is the center of your heart, then all other things will follow in place.

 

[Rad]

Hello Rad,
No problemo. First care to outline the opponent of that Election as you did Donald Trump? :smile:
All I ask is for you to be even handed in assessing the individuals who are running for office, be they here in the U.S.A or when you determine who to vote for in the U.K.

Now what is it that a Christian should look for in a Candidate? That is really the question you want answered.

[Pro 14:34 KJV] 34 Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin [is] a reproach to any people.
[Pro 29:2 KJV] 2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

Now more then ever the people are responsible for the character of the Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless, and corrupt it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness, and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave, and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in a national legislature. James Garfield

So, take it upon yourself to know Scripture, know the people who are running for office, and the policies that you see them running on, and ask yourself. Do the lives they live and the policies they promote adhere to Scripture?

Now if you're curious on how Donald Trump could have won the Presidency being the person he is. You'll have to give the opposition a through research as well. Otherwise you'll have a difficult time seeing how others could have voted for him, and not anyone else.

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

To be honest Nick, i've got to admit i know very little about Hilary Clinton, i understand there was a lot of controversy about her nomination as Democratic Candidate, i've seen the horrific video of her celebrating the brutal slaying of Gaddafi and watched as that country descended into turmoil and chaos, and i remember as Obamas secretary of State she tried to OK the Keystone XL Tar sands Pipeline with a totally inadequate Environmental review, i suppose if she'd won the Presidency her record and actions would have come under close scrutiny as Trump's now have, the fact is though Trump won, and many Christians voted for him, seemingly passionately, not reluctantly as the lesser evil.

So as someone who obviously brings their Christian faith to bear when choosing a particular candidate, what did you find in Clintons message and personality that made you choose Trump, and what did you find in Trumps message and personality that made you vote for him, and given his, and the GOP's record over the last 2 and a half years, have you changed your mind about voting Republican, or do you still see them as the Party that most reflects the teachings and example of Christ?.

 

[Rad]

In the same venue of Christ4ever's reply. The question of this thread,, can you be Christian and have a Liberal mindset, or follow Liberal views.

The Liberal views as well as where the conservative views tend to be leading is disturbing to me. All or nothing.

When Jesus preached the Beatitudes, or the Parables. The only absolute was to have Compassion or love.

If love is the center of your heart, then all other things will follow in place.

Totally agree Bill, in all questions or issues, our moral Compass is to follow Christs teaching of Love and Compassion, of loving your Neighbour as yourself and treating others as you would want to be treated, of having a pronounced bias for the poor and oppressed of this World and embracing Gods Commandment to be both Just and Merciful, its Gods World and we should treat it and the life upon it with ALL the respect and Reverence that entails.

 

[Christ4Ever]

To be honest Nick, i've got to admit i know very little about Hilary Clinton, i understand there was a lot of controversy about her nomination as Democratic Candidate, i've seen the horrific video of her celebrating the brutal slaying of Gaddafi and watched as that country descended into turmoil and chaos, and i remember as Obamas secretary of State she tried to OK the Keystone XL Tar sands Pipeline with a totally inadequate Environmental review, i suppose if she'd won the Presidency her record and actions would have come under close scrutiny as Trump's now have, the fact is though Trump won, and many Christians voted for him, seemingly passionately, not reluctantly as the lesser evil.

So as someone who obviously brings their Christian faith to bear when choosing a particular candidate, what did you find in Clintons message and personality that made you choose Trump, and what did you find in Trumps message and personality that made you vote for him, and given his, and the GOP's record over the last 2 and a half years, have you changed your mind about voting Republican, or do you still see them as the Party that most reflects the teachings and example of Christ?.

Hello Rad,
Still trying to figure me out huh? :shades: Maybe some of this might help.

My observation: What I find interesting in your small sampling of Hilary Clinton is that the moral questions concerning her personal life were left out, but with Trump.......

Truth be told there was nothing in either candidate that a Christian could say "They walk with Christ.". So, their walk with Christ equaled out, and personality to me has very, very little to do it. I've worked for many a person I didn't like, but respected them for their ability to get the job done. I've also worked for those I liked, and they were so incompetent that at the first shot, they might have very quickly been a causality of friendly fire. Thankfully I never had to face that decision. Still, that I saw the need of it, made me understand a certain component of war that I hadn't understood, and something about myself that I didn't like, but had to come to terms. That particular time, I could only classify as my "Judas" days.

With all that being said, it came down to certain topics. Abortion, Illegal Immigration, Economy, etc. Outside of a Christian walk it is very difficult for me to find any justification for any candidate who doesn't walk the walk.

I guess the topical issues were in a way were a natural standard to use since there really wasn't much of a political record for Trump, never having held an office. This left his life both business & private the objects needed to assess his ability to be President. While Hilary had so much more data to gather. From her days as Secretary of State, Senator, First Lady, and even as far back as her days in Arkansas and beyond that one had to look at.

Of special note. The interesting thing about Donald Trump and the Democratic & Republican parties is that they both hated him!!! The American people, saw this, and believe it or not. It added to his positives!!!! However, it's also as Brother Brad Huber brought forward which also added to his positives. The media in this country is far and away slanted. In what direction I'll leave that to you to decide, but to the American people. They knew this, and so, took much of what was being said concerning him with a grain of salt. Especially how horrible a human being he is! Why? Because until he decided to run for President, he was a person that both sides courted, and wanted to know and be seen with!!!! Hypocrisy at its best/worst!

Hopefully, this fleshes it out a little more for you. Choosing ones leader in a democracy is never easy, and it shouldn't be. That is why I suggest much prayer, and dutiful research in coming to a decision on who to choose. Personally, I believe it is God who chooses, and just moves the hearts & minds of those who are doing the voting to select who He wants in that position! :smile:

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Rad]

Hello Rad,
Still trying to figure me out huh? :shades: Maybe some of this might help.

My observation: What I find interesting in your small sampling of Hilary Clinton is that the moral questions concerning her personal life were left out, but with Trump.......

Truth be told there was nothing in either candidate that a Christian could say "They walk with Christ.". So, their walk with Christ equaled out, and personality to me has very, very little to do it. I've worked for many a person I didn't like, but respected them for their ability to get the job done. I've also worked for those I liked, and they were so incompetent that at the first shot, they might have very quickly been a causality of friendly fire. Thankfully I never had to face that decision. Still, that I saw the need of it, made me understand a certain component of war that I hadn't understood, and something about myself that I didn't like, but had to come to terms. That particular time, I could only classify as my "Judas" days.

With all that being said, it came down to certain topics. Abortion, Illegal Immigration, Economy, etc. Outside of a Christian walk it is very difficult for me to find any justification for any candidate who doesn't walk the walk.

I guess the topical issues were in a way were a natural standard to use since there really wasn't much of a political record for Trump, never having held an office. This left his life both business & private the objects needed to assess his ability to be President. While Hilary had so much more data to gather. From her days as Secretary of State, Senator, First Lady, and even as far back as her days in Arkansas and beyond that one had to look at.

Of special note. The interesting thing about Donald Trump and the Democratic & Republican parties is that they both hated him!!! The American people, saw this, and believe it or not. It added to his positives!!!! However, it's also as Brother Brad Huber brought forward which also added to his positives. The media in this country is far and away slanted. In what direction I'll leave that to you to decide, but to the American people. They knew this, and so, took much of what was being said concerning him with a grain of salt. Especially how horrible a human being he is! Why? Because until he decided to run for President, he was a person that both sides courted, and wanted to know and be seen with!!!! Hypocrisy at its best/worst!

Hopefully, this fleshes it out a little more for you. Choosing ones leader in a democracy is never easy, and it shouldn't be. That is why I suggest much prayer, and dutiful research in coming to a decision on who to choose. Personally, I believe it is God who chooses, and just moves the hearts & minds of those who are doing the voting to select who He wants in that position! :smile:

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Thanks Nick, yeh that explains a little, but i don't think that outside of a full scale political discussion i'm ever gonna understand how so many Christians voted for Trump, perhaps the best way is to consider each issue by itself, Immigration, Economy, Abortion, International aid, the Environment, Climate Change and see how they relate to our Faith and the Party we vote for, anyway thanks for your thoughtful and considered replies, i would just say that looking round this World i find it hard to see Gods hand in choosing those leading the Nations, i see it more as described in Luke 4 vs 4-8, the choices on offer are the lesser or greater evil, and as the saying goes, "when you sup with the Devil, use a long Spoon".

 

[Sue D.]

Personally , I voted for Trump to keep Clinton Out. And my husband voted for him because he was for the Veterans which my husband was one. And, in the Big picture he's turning out to be a pretty good President. He's wanted to drain the Swamp. Well - doing That can be very stinky -- and it is proving to be such.

And he's Trying to do something about the illegal immigration -- building the wall -- close the sanctuary cities -- which House the illegals.

Decades ago I was trying to sort out all the issues and the men who were running. Realized there is No perfect candidate.

Seems that the more a President is trying to do Right -- the more dirt the politicians try to dig up about him and get him ousted. Those that are doing to digging Should be the ones put in prison. for a long, long time.

Many elections Do end up being a choice between the lesser of two evils.

VP Pense is a wonderful VP.

Since we're wanting a ruler with righteous judgement / ruling -- we'll need to wait for the earthly 1,000 yr reign of Christ.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Thanks Nick, yeh that explains a little, but i don't think that outside of a full scale political discussion i'm ever gonna understand how so many Christians voted for Trump, perhaps the best way is to consider each issue by itself, Immigration, Economy, Abortion, International aid, the Environment, Climate Change and see how they relate to our Faith and the Party we vote for, anyway thanks for your thoughtful and considered replies, i would just say that looking round this World i find it hard to see Gods hand in choosing those leading the Nations, i see it more as described in Luke 4 vs 4-8, the choices on offer are the lesser or greater evil, and as the saying goes, "when you sup with the Devil, use a long Spoon".

Hello Rad,
Looks like we're winding down this discussion between us.

It's both sides brother. How could Christians vote for either candidate is really the question one must ask. Part of the issue, is what you seem to be unable to let go of. That being, the need to have to consider "Party" as a primary foundation of how one should vote instead of seeking what the individual stands for. Parties are in part really number cruncher s, who look to poles/surveys to see what a segment of the society believes in and who best fits the positions. That is why certain individuals are supported/promoted while others are not. Needless to say we as Christians, do not stand in the majority, so depending on who is in control of the "Party" and determines the positions they should hold on any particular issue. We are not considered worth listening to in molding the "Party Line". This continues as status quo, until the power brokers change or determine otherwise.

This is why it is imperative that the Christian not seek to first look "Party Line", then individual. This actual will taint the view point we should hold. Making us believe that the person actually believes what the "Party" is sprouting on about! We need a Biblical viewpoint on the individual. Checkout Scripture on how we should select leaders in the Church. Think it should be any different for Leaders of our Countries? :smile:

As far as God choosing our leadership. Not so strange. Actually it's the Authority He's established. Which is why I believe all authority is God given. Now what man chooses to do in the positions of authority that God has set in place. Is probably exemplified by these two in the OT. Think of King Saul in the OT and you will see what I mean or even Pharaoh (Romans 9:7).

A book you might find interesting, which oddly enough will be the second time in the same amount of days that I bring it up! The book is called "Under Cover" by John Bevere. Gives good insight into how we fit and should look at God's Authority in History and the World.

I can't reiterate it enough to leave the Party Line aside whenever possible, and focus on the person running. The Party won't be the one who shakes your hand while picking your pocket with the other.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Sue D.]

When I was growing up in Iowa -- John Deeres was union and union was democrat.

However -- in later years, when I was actually voting. We Did look at the candidates and what they stood for,

Last year some of my brothers-in-law broke away from the Democratic party. That shocked everyone. Big family.

I will Always vote Republican.

Eventually it will be a man vs a woman candidate. I don't think a woman Should Be President. I mean -- what would Her husband be called 'First Man" ? instead of First Lady? And Please NOT a same sex couple in office.

With My luck , there will be a highly qualified Woman Republican candidate and a man running against her as a Democrat. She would get in by default.

 

[LadiD62]

I was trained extensively and have much experience in law enforcement, which includes neighborhood safety. Though retired, I was drafted to be president of our Neighborhood Watch. When I allowed Republican candidate signs in my yard, knowing the majority here is Democrat, we began having vandalism on our property. There were anti-terrorism remedies I could employ, but my wife and I agreed not to fight back with cameras and violation charges. We just kept replacing signs. The landscape repairs will be in the thousands if we decide to continue beautification goals. For now we're letting the neighbors be constantly reminded of the foolishness of mixing politics and neighborhood. They are not seeing the magnificent rose blooms, annual flower beds, and a perfect lawn marred by vehicle tire tracks. There is no more door to door dialog, and the neighborhood watch was cancelled by a vote meeting I was not advised of, which did away with my position and all others. We suddenly became a neighborhood of hatred, silenced. So. We have our own mega security system, and keep up our local church attendance. The neighbor's addresses are filling the newspaper police reports with burglaries, break-ins, and two home invasions this year already. I still patrol the area when I can, but the relationships we had are erased.

I just opened an envelope from our mailbox without a stamp.. Inside was a Post It with "We will have the power again come November and you will never have it again. If you come close to it, we will kill you." Of course it was not signed. I do not plan to avoid taking a stand for righteousness. knowing the police won't be of help. We won't get support until someone breaks the door in, so I won't wait for them to come.

The next federal election will likely be the most dangerous ever so far.

Pray, Church, and get involved. Be willing to lose your tax exemptions.

This distresses me. We are living in dangerous divisive times. While I don't agree with the present administration in the White House, I would defend your right to your opinion to the death. We have to get back to loving one another, but that won't happen till the conversations change and can be open and civil.

 

[Brad Huber]

This distresses me. We are living in dangerous divisive times. While I don't agree with the present administration in the White House, I would defend your right to your opinion to the death. We have to get back to loving one another, but that won't happen till the conversations change and can be open and civil.

Not just open and civil, but honest and with concern for the citizens of the country. All four are missing from most current US politicians.

 

[Sue D.]

We need to remember that God Is in control even when it doesn't seem like it.

His plan Will prevail. He works Through us to accomplish His will.

 

[Rad]

Personally , I voted for Trump to keep Clinton Out. And my husband voted for him because he was for the Veterans which my husband was one. And, in the Big picture he's turning out to be a pretty good President. He's wanted to drain the Swamp. Well - doing That can be very stinky -- and it is proving to be such.

And he's Trying to do something about the illegal immigration -- building the wall -- close the sanctuary cities -- which House the illegals.

Decades ago I was trying to sort out all the issues and the men who were running. Realized there is No perfect candidate.

Seems that the more a President is trying to do Right -- the more dirt the politicians try to dig up about him and get him ousted. Those that are doing to digging Should be the ones put in prison. for a long, long time.

Many elections Do end up being a choice between the lesser of two evils.

VP Pense is a wonderful VP.

Since we're wanting a ruler with righteous judgement / ruling -- we'll need to wait for the earthly 1,000 yr reign of Christ.

Hi Sue, Just wondered how you think Trump is "Draining the Swamp", because it seems to me that hes filled positions within his Government with Business insiders and Political cronies that typify a Corruption rarely seen before,....... and i've noticed Illegal Immigration mentioned a few times here, just wondered how that fitted in with Loving thy Neighbour and welcoming the stranger, whether "illegal" or not, , ...... and just where do you consider Trump's "trying to do right", in his promotion of Nationalism, MAGA, in his Racism and Anti Immigration rhetoric and actions, Build that wall and the Muslim Ban to name just a couple, and Trumps pro Rich and big Business stance and his cuts to welfare and other benefits surely puts him at odds with Christs preference for the poor and oppressed, and what about his unashamedly pro Gun, pro NRA positon , how does that reconcile with Christs teachings of Pacifism and tolerance, and his utter contempt for Environmental safeguards and pro BigOil, Gas and Coal stance will probably be the final nail in the coffin as regards climate change condemning countless millions to further poverty and suffering as increased droughts, famines, storms and floods ravage the earth,...... im making your choice for Trump ,what was it about Clinton's evil that you consider outweighs Trumps,

 

[Sue D.]

So -- you believe that Everyone should be able to be in our country no matter how they get here?

Have you noticed that in the Bible -- people get into heaven One way and Only one way. Everyone is Not going to get to heaven no matter how they choose to get there.

Jesus Christ died for Everyone -- but it's either His way or they are not entering.

And you have no problem with Muslims being part of our national leadership? And being sworn into office placing their hand on the Koran rather than God's Holy Word?

Jesus Christ was Not a pacifist and was Not tolerant of everything. His Word gives us very clear guidelines for ethics / morality.

Cutting welfare benefits to illegal people -- they have no business getting Any benefits -- People need to be here Legally. Support this country.

You Are aware of what Hilary Clinton would do with this country? Right?

Trump is at least Trying to make America a great country again -- but he's being thwarted at every move.

The poor and needy -- widows / children are Supposed to be cared for by the church and family NOT the government.

YES Get that wall Built.

Do you personally have doors / windows/ walls around your dwelling? Or do you have your home open to anyone who wants to walk in - help themselves to what ever they want / need and leave or stay? If they want to mess with your children or wife - you'd let them. ?!

 

[Christ4Ever]

Hi Sue, Just wondered how you think Trump is "Draining the Swamp", because it seems to me that hes filled positions within his Government with Business insiders and Political cronies that typify a Corruption rarely seen before,....... and i've noticed Illegal Immigration mentioned a few times here, just wondered how that fitted in with Loving thy Neighbour and welcoming the stranger, whether "illegal" or not, , ...... and just where do you consider Trump's "trying to do right", in his promotion of Nationalism, MAGA, in his Racism and Anti Immigration rhetoric and actions, Build that wall and the Muslim Ban to name just a couple, and Trumps pro Rich and big Business stance and his cuts to welfare and other benefits surely puts him at odds with Christs preference for the poor and oppressed, and what about his unashamedly pro Gun, pro NRA positon , how does that reconcile with Christs teachings of Pacifism and tolerance, and his utter contempt for Environmental safeguards and pro BigOil, Gas and Coal stance will probably be the final nail in the coffin as regards climate change condemning countless millions to further poverty and suffering as increased droughts, famines, storms and floods ravage the earth,...... im making your choice for Trump ,what was it about Clinton's evil that you consider outweighs Trumps,

Dear @Sue D.
I realize that the above post was directed to you, but I hope you don't mind me adding my 2 cents or 2 pence for our Brother from the UK.

Hello Rad,
You're catching me on a rough day, so you might not want to read the rest.

Still one siding it I see :smile:
Now which one first.................illegal immigration...........
I just couldn't help replying to this. This one really got me to start writing. Your part about "Illegal Immigration" and Loving thy Neighbor. The operative word here is "illegal". The people coming into this country or any other country for that matter by doing so "illegally" are breaking the laws of said country. So, I hope you're not suggesting that we as Christians should break the Law of the Country we live in as a reflection of our Love of Neighbor? :smile: Quite the conundrum you would have us choose from there brother. However, in truth if we truly love our neighbor, then we would not be assisting them in breaking the law, but rather assist them by following the law or having the law changed.

Going to get worse.......

You'll find the side that you probably support, does not in honesty want to resolve this issue in any reasonable manner. Outside of creating open borders, which would make the U.S.A the first....well maybe the Antarctic, but I don't see a lot of folks seeking to invade that locale. So, as far as I know no country in the world allows for unfettered entry into their country, and that includes the UK. Want to try that beam in ones eye refrain on for size? Sorry I couldn't help it. Told you it be getting worse.....

This is why I suggest you research both sides, before critiquing, which in this case is existing law, which predates this Republican President. He's just trying to enforce the laws he inherited. Humm.....imagine that....a politician wanting to enforce the law!!! Not something I want from my leadership...I'm sure you'd abhor that too in your Prime Minister..............Oh by the way how's that Brexit thing going? People voted for it, but the existing Leadership last I've heard is trying everything they can do to scuttle the whole thing or slow it down in such a way that folks may very well believe it was only an illusion.........The English sure have started something there. Seems other EU states are looking at similar laws to be put up for a vote.............point coming.....Seems that bad, bad, bad, Nationalism thing is spreading....see Brexit......Sorry I'm not a Globalism type person. One World Government etc.

Guns!!!!!

Pro-gun a problem. Sorry, it's written into our Constitution and so I have no issue with it. If I did, then the way to go would be to pass another amendment to the Constitution. Using half-step laws to get around it, just makes it worse for everyone (i.e. research City of Chicago).

Gosh this is getting hard to do.....

Environmental issues? Agreed. However....I'm sure you knew there was a "but" coming....so I used However instead :smile: The laws that the U.S.A. enact, will have zero effect on changing the countries that make the U.S.A look like pikers and they are China & India. China, India won't be driven by what we do. Plus, have you looked at the Green Deal that was put forward by as you like to use the other "Party Line"? Think we can get the Russians to go along? Don't think so. Now please don't say it's the U.S.A that is putting the nail of the coffin called climate change. To have a Globalist with such a Nationalist point of view as far as blame is concerned is disconcerting to me :smile:

To make radical changes you need innovation, not condemnation. Government can subsidize some of the research, but unless the main focus is done by the private industries, with great incentives. It just won't happen. Socialist and Communist type Governments are not high on innovation, just status quo. Trying to shove it down the throats of people, just makes them even more angry and disappointed then they already are. Have you done that research on the other side yet? No? Sad, because you'd of found that the other extreme is no better. Hillary? Gosh in any other civilized country she'd of been convicted and would still be spending time in jail.

Now that same "Party" that I'm pointing to would throw the baby out with the bath water, as a way to fix things, but since they already want to abort up to and including the time of birth. It's no big deal for them. Think this was harsh? :crying: That Party actual had someone say yesterday that it was better off to kill them off now, since they were going to get killed later on in life. Wow!!! LET'S GO PARTY!!!!

You still not getting it are you. You might have, if you did what I suggested and did that research on the other side as honestly as you did this one. Then hold them both up against Scripture and you'd see the failings of both. Without Christ Jesus, what you have is less, no matter which one you choose, without Christ it will never be more..........

Like I said. A rough day.
Thanks for taking my burden for awhile.

With the Love Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Sue D.]

Good job. Great job.

 

[Bill]

Hi Sue, Just wondered how you think Trump is "Draining the Swamp", because it seems to me that hes filled positions within his Government with Business insiders and Political cronies that typify a Corruption rarely seen before,....... and i've noticed Illegal Immigration mentioned a few times here, just wondered how that fitted in with Loving thy Neighbour and welcoming the stranger, whether "illegal" or not, , ...... and just where do you consider Trump's "trying to do right", in his promotion of Nationalism, MAGA, in his Racism and Anti Immigration rhetoric and actions, Build that wall and the Muslim Ban to name just a couple, and Trumps pro Rich and big Business stance and his cuts to welfare and other benefits surely puts him at odds with Christs preference for the poor and oppressed, and what about his unashamedly pro Gun, pro NRA positon , how does that reconcile with Christs teachings of Pacifism and tolerance, and his utter contempt for Environmental safeguards and pro BigOil, Gas and Coal stance will probably be the final nail in the coffin as regards climate change condemning countless millions to further poverty and suffering as increased droughts, famines, storms and floods ravage the earth,...... im making your choice for Trump ,what was it about Clinton's evil that you consider outweighs Trumps,

As for climate change, why does no one ever consider science. Volcanic activity or the effects of the sun . There is more polutants in 5 volcanos than all of what mankind creates. And volcanic activity is at an all time high. 40 plus, yearly. Sun spot activity is also at an all time high, affecting the stratosphere, . Yet never are these things mentioned by pro earth movement ppl. Im just curious why not