God is sovereign

[Bendito]

Bendito -- I'm in God's Word on a daily basis. I have a Bible next to this computer as I'm typing.

What I find interesting in you comment "just find all the verses that apply to the authority of the believers, and, of course, Jesus authority.

You're putting 'our' authority 1st and Then , of course, Jesus' authority.

I was Not looking for those passages -- I was doing devotional reading that was listed for yesterday and that happened to be part of it.

Jesus was giving various chosen men His authority.

the end of verse 20 "but rejoice that your names are written in heaven"

Jesus' authority 1st -- are 'we' a believer or not. That is the important question.

You don't need to be defensive. I only meant that when you talk about something the Bible teaches, you need to search all of what the Bible teaches before you try to teach on it. The problem with a lot of us is that we try to teach something we are only learning. Then when we do learn it, we usually have to backtrack and straighten out what we've taught, because we've taught mistakes. We should only teach what we know.
and....Our authority is given us by Jesus....It is then, our authority...given by Jesus. And again.....You're right. Our authority is second to Jesus' authority.

 

[Sue D.]

Bendito -- are you saying that You do a complete word study on every single word or verse you ever share with someone. That would include going back to the Greek / Hebrew to make Sure you have Exactly the right meaning.

Every Christian Should be considering themselves to be in the learning mode All the time,. No one on this earth will Ever know Everything that God's Word says and means perfectly.

I was simply sharing the passage that I came across that Happened to be what you are so adamant about. And I don't agree with your application of those passages.

 

[Bendito]

God gave dominion of the earth -- the animals in it. -- to man.

Everything that moves on the face of the Earth....genesis 1:28 every living creature that crawls on the earth.”

 

[Bendito]

Bendito -- are you saying that You do a complete word study on every single word or verse you ever share with someone. That would include going back to the Greek / Hebrew to make Sure you have Exactly the right meaning.

Every Christian Should be considering themselves to be in the learning mode All the time,. No one on this earth will Ever know Everything that God's Word says and means perfectly.

I was simply sharing the passage that I came across that Happened to be what you are so adamant about. And I don't agree with your application of those passages.

Sue....I'm saying I study each subject I share on....Now I did not say I am an expert....But hey! Chill I'm not your enemy here....The real enemy is really busy here trying to cause division.... I'm NOT your enemy!
You don't have to agree....But you should stop fighting....I don't jump you every time you post...Why do you always come against me? Its beginning to look like you watch to see what I'm posting on, then coming in with fists flying. Though I'm sure you don't feel that's the case.

 

[Sue D.]

Bendito -- you seem to be fine with those who agree with you. I don't happen to. And you seem to translate That into me fighting with you.

You jump on me plenty. But you don't see it that way. Other's have made the same observations that I do and you don't like them, either.

You do a lot of posting and so do I. Sharing back and forth with various people on various subjects.

There are some subjects that are important enough to discuss more than others.

 

[Bendito]

Bendito -- are you saying that You do a complete word study on every single word or verse you ever share with someone. That would include going back to the Greek / Hebrew to make Sure you have Exactly the right meaning.

Every Christian Should be considering themselves to be in the learning mode All the time,. No one on this earth will Ever know Everything that God's Word says and means perfectly.

I was simply sharing the passage that I came across that Happened to be what you are so adamant about. And I don't agree with your application of those passages.

I understand...Many people get upset when they see the truth...They don't like it when truth clashes with their beliefs. I never said I know everything....I don't...But like I said....I'm not into teaching/sharing false teaching.... And so, back to "The Great Apostasy is Already Begun" Who do you think will be apostatizing? Non Christians? Nope....Those who call themselves Christians.. That's why it's so important to KNOW what the Word says.

 

[Dave M]

Matt 28:18; And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.



2 Sam 12:11; "Thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight.
2 Sam 12:12; 'Indeed you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and under the sun.'"
2 Sam 12:13; Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has taken away your sin; you shall not die.
2 Sam 12:14; "However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die."
2 Sam 12:15; So Nathan went to his house. Then the LORD struck the child that Uriah's widow bore to David, so that he was very sick.
2 Sam 12:16; David therefore inquired of God for the child; and David fasted and went and lay all night on the ground.

I notice in verse 15.. it says "The LORD struck the child".

2 Sam 12:17; The elders of his household stood beside him in order to raise him up from the ground, but he was unwilling and would not eat food with them.
2 Sam 12:18; Then it happened on the seventh day that the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they said, "Behold, while the child was still alive, we spoke to him and he did not listen to our voice. How then can we tell him that the child is dead, since he might do himself harm!"
2 Sam 12:19; But when David saw that his servants were whispering together, David perceived that the child was dead; so David said to his servants, "Is the child dead?" And they said, "He is dead."

Two things I find interesting about this story.
1. David sinned, but David didn't die. The baby did. Can our sins cause someone elses death?

2. 2 Sam 12:14; "However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die."
David commits adultery with another mans wife, and then has the man killed. But yet the thing God requires, is his babies life.
... why?, .. "you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme".

I wonder how many times, some Christians by the way they live... give the enemies of the Lord... reason to blaspheme?

Rom 2:24; For "THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILES BECAUSE OF YOU," just as it is written.

About time you showed up and posted some sound doctrine on the subject Brother !! :smile: and thankyou

 

[Sue D.]

Everything that moves on the face of the Earth....genesis 1:28 every living creature that crawls on the earth.”

Have You seen any people who crawl on the earth as a way of life. That would be referring to animals not people.

 

[Bendito]

Have You seen any people who crawl on the earth as a way of life. That would be referring to animals not people.

Yes...We do not have dominion over people....

 

[Dave M]

Matt 28:18; And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

thanks you Jesus I am glad you have the power and not man,

 

[Bendito]

Matt 28:18; And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

thanks you Jesus I am glad you have the power and not man,

Dave...How doed that verse line up with the three I gave? They should agree but they don't in this context

 

[Theo102]

Matt 28:18; And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

This is most likely a late addition. The suffering servant prophecy speaks of him being rewarded with others, which is inconsistent with the idea of total authority. Also the prophecy from Daniel refers to a covenant, most probably related to the covenant of blood of Exodus 24:8

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 9:26-27

 

[Sue D.]

This is most likely a late addition. The suffering servant prophecy speaks of him being rewarded with others, which is inconsistent with the idea of total authority. Also the prophecy from Daniel refers to a covenant, most probably related to the covenant of blood of Exodus 24:8

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 9:26-27

You say 'most likely' a late addition. So not for certain.

Jesus Christ was definitely a suffering servant at one point. Why would that be inconsistent with total authority.

You use phrasing 'most probably' related. Which Also suggests but "not necessarily."

 

[Theo102]

You say 'most likely' a late addition. So not for certain.

Sure. There are other reasons to think that the great commission was added for doctrinal reasons, but they're not relevant to the topic of this thread.

The argument about authority isn't so much about the Messiah being a servant as about him being involved in the covenant. Since there are other parties involved, he doesn't have exclusive authority in that capacity, which means that some authority must remain with the other parties.

 

[Dave M]

@Bendito how do you think scripture is fulfilled if God is not in control????

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito how do you think scripture is fulfilled if God is not in control????

Good question Dave...Who owns the Earth? Who owns the plans? God does...Our being in control does not stop God from doing His thing. He is sovereign. He is in overall charge of all creation...No denying that. Still...Well, let me analogize it a little. The creation is a city, the Earth is a store in that city...God owns all of the city...He put His kids in charge of the store in that city. He still owns the store right? He still has plans for the store and will carry them out in His time, but meanwhile business goes on. His managers, His kids are still carrying out business (or should be) while work is being done. Being a good father he even takes into account any mistakes we make and carries on His work. The store stays in business and God gets His doing done too.
The problem comes in when we listen to the wrong person, follow his plans and all hell is turned loose in the store because the other voice is not God's voice.
You know what I mean because you've seen work being done in your workplace...

 

[Dave M]

He is sovereign. He is in overall charge of all creation...No denying that

glad we can agree on on that, because from reading your former post I was not sure what you thought, until now. thanks

 

[Sue D.]

Bendito -- We Seem to agree. But you Seem to be putting God in the background.

While it's True that 'we' can't actually see Him at work -- He's still Very much in the forefront. It's like the wind, We don't see the actual Wind, but we certainly See the Affects OF it all around us.

today is Sunday -- won't be around much at all.

 

[KingJ]

God is sovereign

Agree

"He knows all things that happen and for what ever reasons he allows them to happen."........" nothing happens with out him allowing it to happen"

Disagree

All the evidence points to Him being surprised by us. He is all powerful. This does not mean He is in control of all things. He allows certain things to happen beyond His control. To allow for free will.

He is as good as He is great. He is sovereign and exceedingly good at the '''SAME''' time. Grasping God is not as simple as grasping the dictionary definition of single word, omnipotence.

If anyone says He is '''sovereign''' fullstop...they are in essence teaching He is behind....all sin. Just shocking what some insinuate and lead the unsaved to believe.

A Christian has ''one'' job and we utterly fail if we do not properly define and represent God.

 

[Sue D.]

KingJ. -- You appear to be the one who is not properly defining and representing God.

That would saying that the cross of Christ is ALMOST sufficient but not quite.

And God IS completely in control when He Does allow certain things to happen.

"We" are Not puppets -- God Does allow us 'free will'. And He can/ Does change things as He sees fit.

God Does have His master plan for this entire world. There Is a constant battle going on between God and satan. God's Will Does supercede Anything that satan is trying to thwart,

And -- like in the world situation right Now -- it's all crazier and isn't going to get any better. Scripture Tells us that all this Will happen. It's All leading up to the rapture of His Church and God giving His people the Jewish segment of the world Another chance to accept Him as their Promised Messiah. And Then after those 7 years, will be His 1,000 yrs of reigning here on earth and Then the Final war and Then judgement and Finally the New Jerusalem and the Lake of fire and brimstone.

Adam and Eve brought sin into this world and God already had a plan in place to remedy That. Their free will with consequences. We've All had the same thing ever since.

And God has a plan for every person's life

Everything in our lives work together for our Good. We are to become more Christ-like.

God would that All would come to Himself But knows that lots of us Won't.