God is sovereign

[Dave M]

God is sovereign I have always believed this and still do.

"He knows all things that happen and for what ever reasons he allows them to happen."........" nothing happens with out him allowing it to happen".

Would you agree with this, or disagree??


many thanks for you kind and respectful and christian like replies

 

[Bendito]

God is sovereign I have always believed this and still do.

"He knows all things that happen and for what ever reasons he allows them to happen."........" nothing happens with out him allowing it to happen".

Would you agree with this, or disagree??


many thanks for you kind and respectful and christian like replies :smile:

God IS sovereign. He IS in control, but not in the Earth...Not right now.
Genesis 1:28 Psalm 8; Psalm 115:16;



If God is in control then where is He when Christians are horribly mutilated and burned and sawn asunder. Where is he when millions of babies are being murdered, pulled apart, screaming in agony? Where is He when millions of Jews and others were being murdered and plundered? Where is He when millions of children are stolen and sacrificed to demons and devils and cannibals? Where was God when Stalin killed 20 million people? Where is God when millions of women are tortured, mutilated, raped, enslaved and worse? Even the thought is enough to drive a person mad if it was true that He was/is in control and allowed all this to happen. I cannot serve a god like that. Can you?

God may be sovereign when it comes to creation, but He has given dominion on earth to mankind. Genesis 1:28, Ps.8: 6-8, Ps 115:16

And that means its up to US to stop it all, with His power and might, not in our own strength. It's up to us to use the weapons that He gave us, the instructions, and the Love. Its up to us to use the Word and the Blood and the glory to defeat the enemy.

 

[Dave M]

If God is in control then where is He when Christians are horribly mutilated and burned and sawn asunder.

First brother let me say I know you love the lord and that is what unites us, and I only seek the truth, I wish conversation to only enlighten.

The question you have posed is answered in scripture I believe. All through scripture Jesus promises us what???? tribulation, test, trials. He does not promise us a rosy life here on earth

, God let happen to his own son, he suffered the worst of all yet it was planned from the beginning.

We as believers are promised trials and tribulations, even death for our faith, and Jesus says Blessed are those who endure to the end, Jesus was the perfect example for us to follow.

Acts 14:22
Strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

1 Peter 4:12 ESV / 4 helpful votes
Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.

First, the Scriptures make clear that all things in life -good and bad - fall under the sovereignty of God. He is the One Who brings all things into being

The Lord says:

Is. 45:5 “I am the LORD, and there is no other;
Besides Me there is no God.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me;

Is. 45:6 That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun
That there is no one besides Me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other,

Is45-7
King James Biblle
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[Bendito]

First brother let me say I know you love the lord and that is what unites us, and I only seek the truth, I wish conversation to only enlighten.

The question you have posed is answered in scripture I believe. All through scripture Jesus promises us what???? tribulation, test, trials. He does not promise us a rosy life here on earth

, God let happen to his own son, he suffered the worst of all yet it was planned from the beginning.

We as believers are promised trials and tribulations, even death for our faith, and Jesus says Blessed are those who endure to the end, Jesus was the perfect example for us to follow.

Acts 14:22
Strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

1 Peter 4:12 ESV / 4 helpful votes
Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.

First, the Scriptures make clear that all things in life -good and bad - fall under the sovereignty of God. He is the One Who brings all things into being

The Lord says:

Is. 45:5 “I am the LORD, and there is no other;
Besides Me there is no God.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me;

Is. 45:6 That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun
That there is no one besides Me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other,

Is. 45:7 The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the LORD who does all these.

Ah Dave....I did know that you would not like my answer....You are right though. We do face trials and tribulation...But we are to take the victory over all the works of the enemy...And He has already given us that victory....1 Corinthians 15:57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Yeshua the Messiah! That means that when tribulation comes, we use our authority, our dominion and send the attack back to the enemy...We rebuke the enemy and take dominion over all his work, and destroy it. Jesus did say we would have tribulations...He did not, however, say that we would have to get our butts kicked. He did not say that we have to accept it.

Then you said He told us we have to go through all that suffering for our

First brother let me say I know you love the lord and that is what unites us, and I only seek the truth, I wish conversation to only enlighten.

The question you have posed is answered in scripture I believe. All through scripture Jesus promises us what???? tribulation, test, trials. He does not promise us a rosy life here on earth

, God let happen to his own son, he suffered the worst of all yet it was planned from the beginning.

We as believers are promised trials and tribulations, even death for our faith, and Jesus says Blessed are those who endure to the end, Jesus was the perfect example for us to follow.

Acts 14:22
Strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

1 Peter 4:12 ESV / 4 helpful votes
Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.

First, the Scriptures make clear that all things in life -good and bad - fall under the sovereignty of God. He is the One Who brings all things into being

The Lord says:

Is. 45:5 “I am the LORD, and there is no other;
Besides Me there is no God.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me;

Is. 45:6 That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun
That there is no one besides Me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other,

Is45-7
King James Biblle
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Ok You've told me this before....The verses are taken out of context. They speak to suffering for our faith. They speak of when the man comes to you and puts a sword to your throat, demanding you renounce Jesus or die....
We are not supposed to suffer for nothing. Some of us will suffer for our faith, but that does not justify our sitting on our thumbs allowing Satan to have his way, tormenting us.

If somebody comes to us, puts a sword to our throat, and tells us..."Renounce Jesus or die." There we are suffering for our faith...

Cancer or flu, or heart disease, or thyroid problems are not suffering for our faith, it is simply Satan putting that junk on us because he can, and he has no right to, and we do not have the right to allow it when Jesus already gave us the victory over that dark one. We are to take that victory and send him packing.
Jesus already gave us the victory...Are we to ignore the victory in order to suffer? We don't have that right.

Those who have ears, let them hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches. To him winning the victory I will give the right to eat from the Tree of Life which is in God’s Gan-‘Eden.”’ Revelation 2:7


Those who have ears, let them hear what the Spirit is saying to the Messianic communities. To him winning the victory I will give some of the hidden man. I will also give him a white stone, on which is written a new name that nobody knows except the one receiving it.”’ Revelation 2:17

Are we to ignore our gifts? Or are we to take them up and put them into action?

 

[Dave M]

Certainly we can agree that because of human sin, this world isn’t the way God originally intended.

 

[Bendito]

Certainly we can agree that because of human sin, this world isn’t the way God originally intended.

Ooh Boy!! You got that right!!

 

[Dave M]

Where is he when millions of babies are being murdered,

I cannot serve a god like that. Can you?

how then do you explain God him self telling David and Batsheba there child would die because of there sins?? seems he commanded a innocent childs death.

yet you seem to claim he would not do such a thing,

 

[Bendito]

how then do you explain God him self telling David and Batsheba there child would die because of there sins?? seems he commanded a innocent childs death.

yet you seem to claim he would not do such a thing,

God did not condemn the child to death...David stepped out from under Gods protection when he did his sin..triggering the curse of sin. The curse, you know, does not come from God, but from sin. Now that David triggered the curse, it plays out...He is forgiven but the curse still plays out...God told David what was to happen but God did not do it. I cannot explain why Christians tend to blame God for the curse. I also wonder what would have happened if David had begged God's mercy and asked Him to save the baby....Apparently, he did not.
Those babies are being offered to the god Moloch...and triggering a massive curse

 

[Sue D.]

Bendito -- oh my goodness. Yes, I've been following this conversation. Oh, my, oh my

 

[Bendito]

Bendito -- oh my goodness. Yes, I've been following this conversation. Oh, my, oh my

And you want to argue? Or cheer? Maybe you're 'oh my oh my' because my hobby horse got loose?

 

[Sue D.]

I'm agreeing with everything that Dave M. has shared.

Not arguing.

Yes, your poor hobby horse got loose. Time to put him back in his horse stable for the night.

 

[Bendito]

I'm agreeing with everything that Dave M. has shared.

Not arguing.

Yes, your poor hobby horse got loose. Time to put him back in his horse stable for the night.

Well, have a good night. BTW...How do you manage to ignore so much scripture?

 

[Sue D.]

I never ignore Scripture. Just don't use it the same way you do.

And good night.

 

[Sue D.]

Bendito -- I happen to be awake at 3 am and am doing some reading.

Found a passage you'd been talking about previously. Take a moment to look at Luke 10 -- the Lord appointed 72 and sent them ahead 2 x2 -- vs 17 - 20 specifically.
vs 19"Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. vs 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."

Previously in chapter 9 "And He called the twelve together and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases, and He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal."

I'm reading that the Lord - at that time - was sending out specific groups of men to do those particular things.

Going back to bed.

 

[B-A-C]

God IS sovereign. He IS in control, but not in the Earth...Not right now.

Matt 28:18; And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

I also wonder what would have happened if David had begged God's mercy and asked Him to save the baby....Apparently, he did not.

2 Sam 12:11; "Thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight.
2 Sam 12:12; 'Indeed you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and under the sun.'"
2 Sam 12:13; Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has taken away your sin; you shall not die.
2 Sam 12:14; "However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die."
2 Sam 12:15; So Nathan went to his house. Then the LORD struck the child that Uriah's widow bore to David, so that he was very sick.
2 Sam 12:16; David therefore inquired of God for the child; and David fasted and went and lay all night on the ground.

I notice in verse 15.. it says "The LORD struck the child".

2 Sam 12:17; The elders of his household stood beside him in order to raise him up from the ground, but he was unwilling and would not eat food with them.
2 Sam 12:18; Then it happened on the seventh day that the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they said, "Behold, while the child was still alive, we spoke to him and he did not listen to our voice. How then can we tell him that the child is dead, since he might do himself harm!"
2 Sam 12:19; But when David saw that his servants were whispering together, David perceived that the child was dead; so David said to his servants, "Is the child dead?" And they said, "He is dead."

Two things I find interesting about this story.
1. David sinned, but David didn't die. The baby did. Can our sins cause someone elses death?

2. 2 Sam 12:14; "However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die."
David commits adultery with another mans wife, and then has the man killed. But yet the thing God requires, is his babies life.
... why?, .. "you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme".

I wonder how many times, some Christians by the way they live... give the enemies of the Lord... reason to blaspheme?

Rom 2:24; For "THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILES BECAUSE OF YOU," just as it is written.

 

[Sue D.]

B-A-C

Very good points.

 

[Bendito]

Matt 28:18; And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.



2 Sam 12:11; "Thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight.
2 Sam 12:12; 'Indeed you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and under the sun.'"
2 Sam 12:13; Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has taken away your sin; you shall not die.
2 Sam 12:14; "However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die."
2 Sam 12:15; So Nathan went to his house. Then the LORD struck the child that Uriah's widow bore to David, so that he was very sick.
2 Sam 12:16; David therefore inquired of God for the child; and David fasted and went and lay all night on the ground.

I notice in verse 15.. it says "The LORD struck the child".

2 Sam 12:17; The elders of his household stood beside him in order to raise him up from the ground, but he was unwilling and would not eat food with them.
2 Sam 12:18; Then it happened on the seventh day that the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they said, "Behold, while the child was still alive, we spoke to him and he did not listen to our voice. How then can we tell him that the child is dead, since he might do himself harm!"
2 Sam 12:19; But when David saw that his servants were whispering together, David perceived that the child was dead; so David said to his servants, "Is the child dead?" And they said, "He is dead."

Two things I find interesting about this story.
1. David sinned, but David didn't die. The baby did. Can our sins cause someone elses death?

2. 2 Sam 12:14; "However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die."
David commits adultery with another mans wife, and then has the man killed. But yet the thing God requires, is his babies life.
... why?, .. "you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme".

I wonder how many times, some Christians by the way they live... give the enemies of the Lord... reason to blaspheme?

Rom 2:24; For "THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILES BECAUSE OF YOU," just as it is written.

My friend, I will address only the first part of your post because the thing about David is an aside, and it's only speculation.

God's sovereignty or ours.....It's interesting how God gave dominion to man, in Genesis 1:28-30, then just three verses later, He rested from His work. Now we understand that God doesn't need to rest physically, so if you look at the word in the original, you see that He stopped working, He retired as it were, having given it over to man to continue...Genesis 2:2 Now it is up to man to continue the work of creation, ruling in the Earth, and expanding the garden to cover all the Earth. Not hard to see, is it?

Then Psalm 8
When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers,
the moon and stars that you set in place —
5 (4) what are mere mortals, that you concern yourself with them;
humans, that you watch over them with such care?



6 (5) You made him but little lower than the angels,
you crowned him with glory and honor,
7 (6) you had him rule what your hands made,
you put everything under his feet —
8 (7) sheep and oxen, all of them,
also the animals in the wilds,
9 (8) the birds in the air, the fish in the sea,
whatever passes through the paths of the seas.

Psalm 8 says clearly that God put man in charge to "run the store"..

and again Psalm 115:16
16 Heaven belongs to Adonai,
but the earth he has given to humankind.

Again, its clear that man is in charge of the Earth...

Matt 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Let's finish reading what Jesus said there....


19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

We see where Jesus passed on His authority to His disciples.

John 14:12
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Remember where in Genesis 2:2 God rested...He ceased His labors, He retired....When Jesus said. " I go unto my Father." He was finished His work on Earth too...And passed to torch to us! He said the same on the cross.."It is finished"

Now its up to us to rule in the Earth, while Jesus is our advocate with the Father...

 

[Bendito]

Bendito -- I happen to be awake at 3 am and am doing some reading.

Found a passage you'd been talking about previously. Take a moment to look at Luke 10 -- the Lord appointed 72 and sent them ahead 2 x2 -- vs 17 - 20 specifically.
vs 19"Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. vs 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."

Previously in chapter 9 "And He called the twelve together and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases, and He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal."

I'm reading that the Lord - at that time - was sending out specific groups of men to do those particular things.

Going back to bed.

That's a good start Sue...Keep studying the Word. You'll find it....Just find all the verses that apply to the authority of the believers, and of course, Jesus authority,...and see what they total up to.

 

[Sue D.]

Bendito -- I'm in God's Word on a daily basis. I have a Bible next to this computer as I'm typing.

What I find interesting in you comment "just find all the verses that apply to the authority of the believers, and, of course, Jesus authority.

You're putting 'our' authority 1st and Then , of course, Jesus' authority.

I was Not looking for those passages -- I was doing devotional reading that was listed for yesterday and that happened to be part of it.

Jesus was giving various chosen men His authority.

the end of verse 20 "but rejoice that your names are written in heaven"

Jesus' authority 1st -- are 'we' a believer or not. That is the important question.

 

[Sue D.]

God gave dominion of the earth -- the animals in it. -- to man.