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The Torah Has Not Been Abolished

Paul called the Galatians "fools". Why is that not considered sin versus someone who calls another a fool in relation to the words of the Messiah? Because calling someone a fool out of admonishment,
Paul called the Galatians fools because they returned to a works orientated relationship with God. Much like some here have claimed you are doing in pushing the Torah.

Because I would rather let the scriptures speak for themselves. But still, you people are stubborn still, slow to understanding or rejecting the truth.
But you are not letting scripture speak. In our discussion on the Sabbath, there is scripture for all three instances I mentioned in post # 46 if you just read the link. What you have done is reject correction from scripture and stuck to one of the three justifications for the Sabbath.

This is called teaching a half truth. If we teach a half truth whilst knowing the full truth, we are a false teacher. False teachers have a special punishment in hell awaiting them 2 Pet 2. Please read this chapter, it is absolutely terrifying to be a false teacher and stand before God's judgement.

When the devil tempted Jesus, he brought half truths. ''Jump and angels will catch you''. Jesus corrected him with scripture speaking to the full truth on the matter. Jesus did not call the devil a fool. Jesus did not call the devil dumb. Jesus spoke respectfully to the devil. Corrected him on three occasions, with scripture. Let's learn from Jesus?

I am also guilty my friend. These scriptures I am quoting are simply terrifying though. Oh my, I feel I need to make a thread on it.
 
I believe nobody on earth lives on into the millennium. All the wicked die in plagues, armageddon and at Jesus's coming. As nobody repents. All the good are killed and taken to heaven. The millennium will be for the children and mentally handicapped who have not yet had an opportunity to be fairly tested / tempted by the devil. We derive this from grasping God is impartial and good.

Rev 9:20-21 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. If you read revelations you will see that plagues get worse and most verses end with ''they repented not''. It speaks to God trying all He can to get them to repent. God will now start a society out of the '''worst of the worst'' sinners? I think not.

The whole of Micah 4 speaks to what transpires on earth during the millennium. There is no reference to God being a tyrant. There is no reference in all of scripture to God ruling like a tyrant. He just enforces His ways / His law. Much like today as we live by mostly moral judicial laws that have their roots in Christianity. A proper read of Micah, reveals a lot of truth about how good God is. It is a chapter that reveals a lot of truth to what we can one-day expect in heaven. I pay close attention to the verses that speak to mankind rebelling and how God deals with them harshly only when they are in severe rebellion.

We need to pay close attention to what is being said. Try imagine being there in that day and age as you read.

"I believe nobody on earth lives on into the millennium", is false statement, because I just proved through scripture that there is indeed a remnant that survives the destruction of the second coming of the Messiah, can you not read? "Therefore earth’s inhabitants are burned up, and very few are left" and "I will gather the lame; I will assemble the exiles and those I have brought to grief. I will make the lame my remnant". I will also include these other scriptures, because it seems the previous scriptures were not sufficient enough to open your eyes to the truth, you stubborn person,

I will make people more rare than fine gold, and mankind than the gold of Ophir.
Isaiah 13:12

Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.
Isaiah 65:20

Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, Yehovah of armies, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yehovah of armies, there will be no rain on them. And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain; which shall be the plague with which Yehovah afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
Zechariah 14:16-18

For Yehovah will have compassion on Jacob and will again choose Israel, and will set them in their own land, and sojourners will join them and will attach themselves to the house of Jacob. And the peoples will take them and bring them to their place, and the house of Israel will possess them in the land of Yehovah as male and female servants. They will take captive those who were their captors, and rule over those who oppressed them.
Isaiah 14:1-2

I pursued my enemies and overtook them, And I did not turn back until they were consumed.I shattered them, so that they were not able to rise; They fell under my feet. For You have girded me with strength for battle; You have subdued under me those who rose up against me. You have also made my enemies turn their backs to me, And I destroyed those who hated me. They cried for help, but there was none to save, Even to Yehovah, but He did not answer them. Then I beat them fine as the dust before the airflow; I emptied them out as the mire of the streets. You have delivered me from the contentions of the people; You have placed me as head of the nations; A people whom I have not known serve me. As soon as they hear, they obey me; Foreigners submit to me. Foreigners fade away, And come trembling out of their fortresses. Yehovah lives, and blessed be my rock; And exalted be the God of my salvation, The God who executes vengeance for me, And subdues peoples under me.
Psalm 18:37-47

For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of Yehovah as the waters cover the sea.
Habakkuk 2:14

They will neither harm nor destroy on all my set-apart mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of Yehovah as the waters cover the sea.
Isaiah 11:9

To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’ –just as I have received authority from my Father.
Revelation 2:26-27

The airflow of the Master Yehovah is upon me, for Yehovah has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to comfort the brokenhearted and to proclaim that captives will be released and prisoners will be freed. He has sent me to tell those who mourn that the time of the Yehovah’s favor has come,and with it, the day of God’s anger against their enemies. 3To all who mourn in Israel,he will give a crown of beauty for ashes, a joyous blessing instead of mourning, festive praise instead of despair. In their righteousness, they will be like great oaks that Yehovah has planted for his own glory. They will rebuild the ancient ruins, repairing cities destroyed long ago. They will revive them, though they have been deserted for many generations. Foreigners will be your servants. They will feed your flocks and plow your fields and tend your vineyards. You will be called priests of Yehovah, ministers of our God. You will feed on the treasures of the nations and boast in their riches. Instead of shame and dishonor, you will enjoy a double share of honor. You will possess a double portion of prosperity in your land, and aeonial joy will be yours.
Isaiah 61:1-7

And it is that remnant the people of God and the Messiah will rule over. And those people will become mighty nations, and will multiply exceedingly, and then, at the end of the thousand year rulership of the Messiah, will be deceived, and come against the Messiah and the people of God,

and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth–Gog and Magog–and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
Revelation 20:8

You err in your understanding of prophecy. You are ignorant, dumb, stubborn, stiff necked, and devoid of truth. Stop being stubborn, and perhaps then you will begin to attain true wisdom, rather than the nonsense you keep regurgitating, which is not the truth. I am tired of arguing with you people, and I have been doing so for several years now on these internet forums, only to find believers who resist the truth all day. Whether one thing or the other. They only want to continue in their own ways, and not the ways defined by the word of God. They are despicable, and lawless. I only chose to remain in this specific forum because one of your moderators reached out to me with kind words, otherwise I would already be gone and not wasting my time with people such as yourself. I already removed myself from other forums because I am weary of you people. I am busy and have better things to do with my time than argue with people who refuse to be fed good food whether with my right hand or my left, you are like insolent children screaming and refusing to be fed food that will nourish you with truth and understanding.
 
Paul called the Galatians fools because they returned to a works orientated relationship with God. Much like some here have claimed you are doing in pushing the Torah.

But you are not letting scripture speak. In our discussion on the Sabbath, there is scripture for all three instances I mentioned in post # 46 if you just read the link. What you have done is reject correction from scripture and stuck to one of the three justifications for the Sabbath.

This is called teaching a half truth. If we teach a half truth whilst knowing the full truth, we are a false teacher. False teachers have a special punishment in hell awaiting them 2 Pet 2. Please read this chapter, it is absolutely terrifying to be a false teacher and stand before God's judgement.

When the devil tempted Jesus, he brought half truths. ''Jump and angels will catch you''. Jesus corrected him with scripture speaking to the full truth on the matter. Jesus did not call the devil a fool. Jesus did not call the devil dumb. Jesus spoke respectfully to the devil. Corrected him on three occasions, with scripture. Let's learn from Jesus?

I am also guilty my friend. These scriptures I am quoting are simply terrifying though. Oh my, I feel I need to make a thread on it.

The Messiah said, "I did not come to abolish the Torah". Why is this so difficult to understand? This is you, "he who turns his ear from hearing the Torah, even his prayer is abomination" and "hear you earth, I am bringing destruction on this people, because they have rejected my Torah". Whoever teaches the Torah has been abolished deserves to die. It is one of the worst blasphemies taught by men, and you have your fare share of wrath coming your way because of continual rejection of the Torah. This is why many will call out "lord, lord", yet the Messiah will respond with, "depart from me, you workers of LAW-LESS-NESS", meaning living without the Law of God, which is the Torah.
 
"I believe nobody on earth lives on into the millennium", is false statement, because I just proved through scripture that there is indeed a remnant that survives the destruction of the second coming of the Messiah, can you not read? "Therefore earth’s inhabitants are burned up, and very few are left" and "I will gather the lame; I will assemble the exiles and those I have brought to grief. I will make the lame my remnant".
This scripture you quoting is in Micah 4. It speaks to events that transpire during the millennium, not its start. I can post the full chapter for you and highlight the a-z flow of verses and events if you want. It is a hard chapter to grasp. What is not hard to grasp / not confusing / not blurry / not requiring a careful read and grasping of context ...is.....'''They repented not'' Rev 9:20-21. We just have to to consider Pharoah's drowning in the red sea to grasp what God has next in store for the wicked people of the earth.

I will also include these other scriptures, because it seems the previous scriptures were not sufficient enough to open your eyes to the truth, you stubborn person,

Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.
Isaiah 65:20

I like this verse. Note how it says ''there will no longer be infants''. Does that not speak to those who die as infants returning?

Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, Yehovah of armies, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles
. And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yehovah of armies, there will be no rain on them. And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain; which shall be the plague with which Yehovah afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
Zechariah 14:16-18
This speaks to me of events that transpire in the millennium. Granted I can certainly understand why you have your view. ''Of all the nations that survive'' can speak to those surviving the tribulation.

Our disagreement here is on a non material issue. A Rom 14:5 issue. It does literally not matter if you or I, or a combination of our views are correct.

This specific topic should never become a heated discussion. The Sabbath however, where God ordained the stoning to death of those who disobeyed it, yes, that is a serious matter.
 
I recently published a bible study on why the Torah of Moses has not been abolished, why it is still necessary, what the Messiah meant when he said "I came to fulfill the Torah", why the Torah will vanish away once this heaven and earth vanishes away, and finally, if indeed the Torah is still binding, why circumcision of the flesh is no longer required, along with observing the appointed times and Shabbaths of the Torah. Read the bible study here The Torah Has Not Been Abolished | Wisdom of God .

The law was not abolished but Jesus did fulfill the law so you do not have to in order to be saved. To abide in Him we are to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and love one another as He has commanded.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. KJV

Why isn't the 4th commandment to keep the sabbath included? Here is why. Ask Jesus what He as accomplished when fulfilling the law. Ask Him why He is Lord over the sabbath and not the sabbath lord over Him or us any more.

Matthew 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. KJV

The Pharisees approached Jesus asking Him why His disciples were profaning the sabbath. Jesus did not even bother to say that they were not profaning the sabbath, but He began explaining why they were guiltless. Jesus referred to 2 incidents in the O.T. where the saints HAD PROFANED the sabbath and He said that they did, BUT they were guiltless because they were in the Temple when they did it. Then He said One greater than the Temple was here, inferring Himself for why His disciples were guiltless. That was His defense for the disciples because even if they were profaning the sabbath, they were guiltless because God was with them hence Jesus Christ was with them. That is the whole point of the Temple because God was there at the Temple when those saints had profaned the sabbath day.

Now that Jesus had fulfilled the law whereby we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ, His righteousness is in us because Jesus Christ dwells in us. Our bodies become the temples of the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? KJV

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

That is why you are guiltless when you are not keeping the sabbath day the way that they did in the O.T. because stoning Jews breaking the sabbath was also a requirement for keeping the sabbath day and yet there is no careful instructions to Jews or Gentiles as believers in Jesus Christ not to stone any brethren for breaking that commandment, because Jesus Christ in us is able to make us stand by His righteousness apart from the law as it is His glory in Heaven.

1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
 
The law was not abolished but Jesus did fulfill the law so you do not have to in order to be saved. To abide in Him we are to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and love one another as He has commanded.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. KJV

Why isn't the 4th commandment to keep the sabbath included? Here is why. Ask Jesus what He as accomplished when fulfilling the law. Ask Him why He is Lord over the sabbath and not the sabbath lord over Him or us any more.

Matthew 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. KJV

The Pharisees approached Jesus asking Him why His disciples were profaning the sabbath. Jesus did not even bother to say that they were not profaning the sabbath, but He began explaining why they were guiltless. Jesus referred to 2 incidents in the O.T. where the saints HAD PROFANED the sabbath and He said that they did, BUT they were guiltless because they were in the Temple when they did it. Then He said One greater than the Temple was here, inferring Himself for why His disciples were guiltless. That was His defense for the disciples because even if they were profaning the sabbath, they were guiltless because God was with them hence Jesus Christ was with them. That is the whole point of the Temple because God was there at the Temple when those saints had profaned the sabbath day.

Now that Jesus had fulfilled the law whereby we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ, His righteousness is in us because Jesus Christ dwells in us. Our bodies become the temples of the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? KJV

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

That is why you are guiltless when you are not keeping the sabbath day the way that they did in the O.T. because stoning Jews breaking the sabbath was also a requirement for keeping the sabbath day and yet there is no careful instructions to Jews or Gentiles as believers in Jesus Christ not to stone any brethren for breaking that commandment, because Jesus Christ in us is able to make us stand by His righteousness apart from the law as it is His glory in Heaven.

1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

No. The Messiah died so that through his blood we may obey Torah, not discard it, by receiving the airflow of God, which then frees us from sin, and thus causes us to obey Torah. You err.
 
This scripture you quoting is in Micah 4. It speaks to events that transpire during the millennium, not its start. I can post the full chapter for you and highlight the a-z flow of verses and events if you want. It is a hard chapter to grasp. What is not hard to grasp / not confusing / not blurry / not requiring a careful read and grasping of context ...is.....'''They repented not'' Rev 9:20-21. We just have to to consider Pharoah's drowning in the red sea to grasp what God has next in store for the wicked people of the earth.



I like this verse. Note how it says ''there will no longer be infants''. Does that not speak to those who die as infants returning?

This speaks to me of events that transpire in the millennium. Granted I can certainly understand why you have your view. ''Of all the nations that survive'' can speak to those surviving the tribulation.

Our disagreement here is on a non material issue. A Rom 14:5 issue. It does literally not matter if you or I, or a combination of our views are correct.

This specific topic should never become a heated discussion. The Sabbath however, where God ordained the stoning to death of those who disobeyed it, yes, that is a serious matter.

The second coming of the Messiah will reduce the world to very few, those who will inherit the kingdom of God, which will be Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and 144,000 chosen, and a remnant among the nations who will be the least and the lame. This remnant among the nations will then multiply and become strong nations, which is who those that inherited the kingdom of God will rule over. This is the truth of what will happen.
 
The second coming of the Messiah will reduce the world to very few, those who will inherit the kingdom of God, which will be Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and 144,000 chosen, and a remnant among the nations

Hmmm... then again it's possible there will be many who follow satan after the thousand years.

Rev 20:7; When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Rev 20:8; and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
Rev 20:9; And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

It says here that Satan will still deveive people, even after the second coming, in fact even after the millennial reign.
In fact it says the number of his army "is like the sands of seashore".

I wonder how many grains of sand are on the seashore? I'm guessing more than a few.
 
Hmmm... then again it's possible there will be many who follow satan after the thousand years.

Rev 20:7; When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Rev 20:8; and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
Rev 20:9; And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

It says here that Satan will still deveive people, even after the second coming, in fact even after the millennial reign.
In fact it says the number of his army "is like the sands of seashore".

I wonder how many grains of sand are on the seashore? I'm guessing more than a few.

Because as I have explained over and over again, the remnant of those who survived at the second coming of the Messiah will multiply and became many during the thousand year rulership of the Messiah. Do you not understand how much time a thousand years is? From just a few colonies in the US, the US now has a population estimated at over 300 million in just around 400 years. Imagine 1,000 years, and with the world in complete obedience of the Torah, which would include married couples not using contraception, which is contrary to the Torah, which would mean many children per family, as it was in the old days in the US, 10, 15, 20 children per family.... and this is why by the end of the thousand year rulership of the Messiah, the remnant will become as numerous as the sand of the sea. Not to mention people will live longer, which is also why it is written, "and a young man who dies at 100 will be considered young, and a man who dies before 100 will be considered accursed". In fact, the earth will be more populous during this thousand year rulership of the Messiah than it ever has been, because the earth will be ruled in righteousness, and there will be no more wars also, and even animals themselves will no longer be aggressive towards each other nor towards men. The height of civilization on this earth will be in those last thousand years of this earth. You people lack understanding regarding the thousand year rulership of the Messiah. Indeed it will be a strict rule, but through the strictness of the rulership of the Messiah the earth will be full of righteousness, and "the earth will be full of the knowledge of God as the waters cover the seas". Understand!
 
Don't let it brother.
I love you! :smile:

I also love him too! Though he may not quite believe that I even understand the meaning of the word. :smile:
You're allowed to smile as well Brother Povawiqe

When the lawyer asked Jesus what the greatest commandment was, Jesus picked up instantly that their emphasis was on the first commandment to the exclusion of the others, as played out by their lives. He continued past that question, that the second is like the first. Jesus being correct, why didn't the lawyer ask what the two greatest commandments were? The reason is love of neighbor was far from those men, leaders of the Torah, rulers of the Jews, but were lovers of themselves, but not Jesus, and therefore not obeying God truly in the first commandment, for if they knew Moses they would have known Him.

The Church made a big decision in Acts 15 concerning the demands of the Jews for gentiles to keep the Law. The panel decided on just four principles of the Law.

Acts 15:19-21 (KJV)
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


The Church honored what was most vile to Jews, let the Jews keep their religion. It appears you have both Moses and Jesus to satisfy, while us gentile Christians have Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and whatever I do will not create righteousness in me, but that is of Jesus.

Paul explained very well why Christians are not beholding to observances of Jews. Jesus did all that for us, fulfilling those. Yu do realize the feasts pointed to Christ? Well, He came, and was present for the feasts and holy days.

Colossians 2:13-23 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.


While Jesus kept the whole Law, He had strong words for the hypocrites.
John 5:45 (KJV)
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

John 5:46 (KJV)
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

John 7:19 (KJV)
19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

The good news (gospel) of Christ is all we need.
I love you too, persisting for you in your search for truth.
 
The second coming of the Messiah will reduce the world to very few, those who will inherit the kingdom of God, which will be Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and 144,000 chosen, and a remnant among the nations who will be the least and the lame. This remnant among the nations will then multiply and become strong nations, which is who those that inherited the kingdom of God will rule over. This is the truth of what will happen.

The 144 000 will be in the tribulation period. They will not need to live in the millennium. They can go to heaven.

This remnant from the nations who do not repent or are not killed by the anti-Christ? You have still not grasped Rev 9:20-21 and applied it to your pool of scriptures.
 
When the lawyer asked Jesus what the greatest commandment was, Jesus picked up instantly that their emphasis was on the first commandment to the exclusion of the others, as played out by their lives. He continued past that question, that the second is like the first. Jesus being correct, why didn't the lawyer ask what the two greatest commandments were? The reason is love of neighbor was far from those men, leaders of the Torah, rulers of the Jews, but were lovers of themselves, but not Jesus, and therefore not obeying God truly in the first commandment, for if they knew Moses they would have known Him.

The Church made a big decision in Acts 15 concerning the demands of the Jews for gentiles to keep the Law. The panel decided on just four principles of the Law.

Acts 15:19-21 (KJV)
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


The Church honored what was most vile to Jews, let the Jews keep their religion. It appears you have both Moses and Jesus to satisfy, while us gentile Christians have Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and whatever I do will not create righteousness in me, but that is of Jesus.

Paul explained very well why Christians are not beholding to observances of Jews. Jesus did all that for us, fulfilling those. Yu do realize the feasts pointed to Christ? Well, He came, and was present for the feasts and holy days.

Colossians 2:13-23 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using:wink: after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.


While Jesus kept the whole Law, He had strong words for the hypocrites.
John 5:45 (KJV)
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

John 5:46 (KJV)
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

John 7:19 (KJV)
19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

The good news (gospel) of Christ is all we need.
I love you too, persisting for you in your search for truth.

Did it not occur to you why the assembly of Jerusalem left out such things like murder and stealing from those "four principles"? Because the Gentiles already knew the Torah, and there was no need to recite the entire Torah to them, except concerning 4 matters that were commonly practiced by the Gentiles, which were contrary to the Torah,

It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not cause trouble for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals, and from blood.
For Moses has been proclaimed in every city from ancient times and is read in the synagogues on every Shabbath
.
Acts 15:19-21

How much longer will you people just twisting the scriptures to justify your own lawlessness in discarding the Torah? It is written, "hear you earth, I am bringing destruction on this people because they have rejected my Torah".
 
The 144 000 will be in the tribulation period. They will not need to live in the millennium. They can go to heaven.

This remnant from the nations who do not repent or are not killed by the anti-Christ? You have still not grasped Rev 9:20-21 and applied it to your pool of scriptures.

No one goes to heaven. What part of "they will rule on the earth for 1,000 years" do you not understand? The Messiah is returning to live on the earth, to rule over it. And when the new heaven and new earth is created, the New Jerusalem descends on the new earth, and that is where the people of God will live in next. So there is never a point where the people of God ascend into heaven. Just as the High Priest was the only one that could enter the most set-apart place of the temple, so in likewise manner only the Messiah was appointed to enter heaven on our behalf, who will then return to his people, to raise them from the dead, and give us the earth as our inheritance, just as it is written, "the meek shall inherit the earth". You are devoid of all truth and understanding, and are stubborn, and not listening to someone that is telling you the truth, very plainly. I am at my wits end trying to reason with you, and I am about to just write you off and just block you and stop wasting my time with you. Your biggest error is not just concerning your complete misunderstanding of the rulership of the Messiah on this earth, it is also about you thinking the Torah has been abolished, which subsequently makes you lawless. And that is why I am angry with righteous wrath against you, because you discard the Torah, and find ways to justify this lawlessness. Even the scriptures say, "he who turns his ear from the Torah, even his prayer is an abomination". You are worse than an atheist, because you claim to be a believer, yet you discard the Law of God. It would actually be better that you be an atheist, than to do what you are doing now. If I had the anointing right now I would deliver you over to Satan without hesitation. In the days that I receive the anointing, God willing, I will not spare believers such as yourself. It is written, "judgment begins in the house of God".
 
No. The Messiah died so that through his blood we may obey Torah, not discard it, by receiving the airflow of God, which then frees us from sin, and thus causes us to obey Torah. You err.

Feel free to explain Matthew 12:1-7 KJV then. Why did Jesus refer to 2 incidents in the O.T. when He said saints had profaned the sabbath day but were guiltless because they were in the Temple to defend His disciples to the Pharisees?

Until you do, you will not see the difference between the New Covenant from the Old Covenant now why Jesus is Lord of the sabbath and not the sabbath day lord over Jesus.
 
Feel free to explain Matthew 12:1-7 KJV then. Why did Jesus refer to 2 incidents in the O.T. when He said saints had profaned the sabbath day but were guiltless because they were in the Temple to defend His disciples to the Pharisees?

Until you do, you will not see the difference between the New Covenant from the Old Covenant now why Jesus is Lord of the sabbath and not the sabbath day lord over Jesus.

Because the weekly Shabbath is merely a foreshadow of the millennial Shabbath. Whoever enters the millennial Shabbath will fulfill the requirement of the Torah to observe Shabbath. That is why observing the shadow of the Torah is not required. This is why Paul said, "let no man judge you in regards to food, drink, feast, new moon, or Shabbath, which were all shadows of realities found in the Messiah". Yet all other commands that are not shadows of the Torah, remain binding, such as "you shall not steal", "a man shall not wear women's garments", "you shall not charge your brother interest", and many more. The Torah is the knowledge of all sin. If you discard the Torah, you discard that manual that defines everything that is sin.
 
Did it not occur to you why the assembly of Jerusalem left out such things like murder and stealing from those "four principles"? Because the Gentiles already knew the Torah, and there was no need to recite the entire Torah to them, except concerning 4 matters that were commonly practiced by the Gentiles, which were contrary to the Torah,

It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not cause trouble for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals, and from blood.
For Moses has been proclaimed in every city from ancient times and is read in the synagogues on every Shabbath
.
Acts 15:19-21

How much longer will you people just twisting the scriptures to justify your own lawlessness in discarding the Torah? It is written, "hear you earth, I am bringing destruction on this people because they have rejected my Torah".

You people? Are you a Judaiser approaching Christians?

The gentile nations had long before developed their own laws of morality. They already objected to murder and most other Jewish concepts of abominations, having started out under the Noahic Covenant. The Israelite tribes were given a covenant that was meant to mark them as distinct, apart from gentile tribes, having observances that realy made no sense to any other people group. It wasn't necessary for the gentile world to live under the Israelite religion, with God knowing the gospel of Christ would reach them. Not eating pork or catfish simply had no scientific basis then nor now. All that was but a sign of their covenant, such as circumcision of the flesh and certain declared holy days. The gentiles had no part in the formation of those observances.

You are declaing "lawlessness" to people who have laws and live by them. That is a shame upon illegitimate representavies of Judaism, and more genrally upon the proponents of the Torah, which had no bearing upon neighboring nations which didn't need laws peculiar to the experiences and history of the descendants of Abraham.

Hey, the Arab tribes were his blood discendants too. They didn't receive his blessings back then, but are eligible for restoration to God through Jesus Christ regardless of what Israel does.
 
Because the weekly Shabbath is merely a foreshadow of the millennial Shabbath. Whoever enters the millennial Shabbath will fulfill the requirement of the Torah to observe Shabbath. That is why observing the shadow of the Torah is not required. This is why Paul said, "let no man judge you in regards to food, drink, feast, new moon, or Shabbath, which were all shadows of realities found in the Messiah". Yet all other commands that are not shadows of the Torah, remain binding, such as "you shall not steal", "a man shall not wear women's garments", "you shall not charge your brother interest", and many more. The Torah is the knowledge of all sin. If you discard the Torah, you discard that manual that defines everything that is sin.

I doubt anyone here is arguing against the effect of the Torah concerning the major definition of sin. The 10 Commandments are divided between relationship with God, and half between men. The only one in question is definition of the Sabbath day. That has been a question of calendars, as to which is right concerning a holy day. Was it a glode-wise Julian Sunday, or Hebrew Saturday? Jesus made it clear every day is holy for man to approach God, by His works. He healed on Hebrew Saturdays in opposition to Pharisaic beliefs no work, even a good work, could be done on a sabbath, though they circumcised babies on sabbaths. That left those of the circumcision in the realm of evil works if Jesus' works were evil.

The Torah was meant to separate a segment of Abraham's children from the rest of the worlds' tribes, towards the entrance of a pure Christ, Jesus. There had to be a high standard for Jesus to matter worldwide. At His crucifixion, upon His death, even the Roman soldiers recognized He must be the Son of God. The Hebrew leaders were slower to catch on, some entering Christ at Pentecost. They caught up at Acts 15, facing their error of believing upon Jesus, but still demanding observance of elements of the Law of Moses. They were found in error.

Keep Judaism separate from Christianity. Don't disparge one or the other. Oil and water do not mix well, but require freqent shaking. Wherever the Holy Spirit oil shows up, there is no mistaking that.
 
You people? Are you a Judaiser approaching Christians?

The gentile nations had long before developed their own laws of morality. They already objected to murder and most other Jewish concepts of abominations, having started out under the Noahic Covenant. The Israelite tribes were given a covenant that was meant to mark them as distinct, apart from gentile tribes, having observances that realy made no sense to any other people group. It wasn't necessary for the gentile world to live under the Israelite religion, with God knowing the gospel of Christ would reach them. Not eating pork or catfish simply had no scientific basis then nor now. All that was but a sign of their covenant, such as circumcision of the flesh and certain declared holy days. The gentiles had no part in the formation of those observances.

You are declaing "lawlessness" to people who have laws and live by them. That is a shame upon illegitimate representavies of Judaism, and more genrally upon the proponents of the Torah, which had no bearing upon neighboring nations which didn't need laws peculiar to the experiences and history of the descendants of Abraham.

Hey, the Arab tribes were his blood discendants too. They didn't receive his blessings back then, but are eligible for restoration to God through Jesus Christ regardless of what Israel does.

Teaching that the Torah is not abolished is not Judaizing. It is what the Messiah taught, and also Paul. Now, teaching that you still have to circumcise your flesh, or observe Shabbath, which are matters of the Torah that are no longer incumbent on believers under the new covenant, that is Judaizing. You are the other extreme of Judaizers, which is lawlessness, meaning someone who completely discards the Torah, because the Torah is the Law of God. "You shall not steal", "a man shall not wear women's clothing", "you shall not charge your brother interest" are not just "Israelite religion", these are the commands of God. That is why it is written, "hear you earth, I am bringing destruction on this people, because they have rejected my Torah".
 
I doubt anyone here is arguing against the effect of the Torah concerning the major definition of sin. The 10 Commandments are divided between relationship with God, and half between men. The only one in question is definition of the Sabbath day. That has been a question of calendars, as to which is right concerning a holy day. Was it a glode-wise Julian Sunday, or Hebrew Saturday? Jesus made it clear every day is holy for man to approach God, by His works. He healed on Hebrew Saturdays in opposition to Pharisaic beliefs no work, even a good work, could be done on a sabbath, though they circumcised babies on sabbaths. That left those of the circumcision in the realm of evil works if Jesus' works were evil.

The Torah was meant to separate a segment of Abraham's children from the rest of the worlds' tribes, towards the entrance of a pure Christ, Jesus. There had to be a high standard for Jesus to matter worldwide. At His crucifixion, upon His death, even the Roman soldiers recognized He must be the Son of God. The Hebrew leaders were slower to catch on, some entering Christ at Pentecost. They caught up at Acts 15, facing their error of believing upon Jesus, but still demanding observance of elements of the Law of Moses. They were found in error.

Keep Judaism separate from Christianity. Don't disparge one or the other. Oil and water do not mix well, but require freqent shaking. Wherever the Holy Spirit oil shows up, there is no mistaking that.

The Torah is not just "the 10 commandments", it is the entire Book of Moses, the first five books of the bible. The Torah has many commands. That is the Law of God, which defines everything that is sin.
 
Because the weekly Shabbath is merely a foreshadow of the millennial Shabbath. Whoever enters the millennial Shabbath will fulfill the requirement of the Torah to observe Shabbath. That is why observing the shadow of the Torah is not required. This is why Paul said, "let no man judge you in regards to food, drink, feast, new moon, or Shabbath, which were all shadows of realities found in the Messiah".

So you are saying that you know you are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day because Jesus Christ and His righteousness is in you? That when you honor Him on the sabbath, it is not for keeping the commandment but to worship Him?

Yet all other commands that are not shadows of the Torah, remain binding, such as "you shall not steal", "a man shall not wear women's garments", "you shall not charge your brother interest", and many more. The Torah is the knowledge of all sin. If you discard the Torah, you discard that manual that defines everything that is sin.

You know of the 2 greatest commandments in the O.T. which is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength and to love others whereby all the laws hang on, and so the 2 greatest commandments in the N.T. is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ & to love others for abiding in Him; see 1 John 3:22-24 KJV So when I find myself having trouble loving my enemies, it is because I believe in Him to be my Good Shepherd, He reminds me that He is in control, lifts my head up to the things above, call on Him for the help for the love I need to love my enemies and give me guidance since it is not possible to live peaceably with all men.

So to love others covers and hangs all the rest of the commandments by because that is what the rest of the commandments are for; showing how to love others by NOT doing those things, but to be able to love others and have the guidance we need as well as the fruits of the Spirit by Jesus Christ, we are to not only believe Jesus Christ is our Savior to rest in Him that we are saved apart from the law and to believe in Jesus Christ as our Good shepherd to help us to follow Him.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. KJV
 
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