The Torah Has Not Been Abolished

[povawiqe]

I recently published a bible study on why the Torah of Moses has not been abolished, why it is still necessary, what the Messiah meant when he said "I came to fulfill the Torah", why the Torah will vanish away once this heaven and earth vanishes away, and finally, if indeed the Torah is still binding, why circumcision of the flesh is no longer required, along with observing the appointed times and Shabbaths of the Torah. Read the bible study here The Torah Has Not Been Abolished | Wisdom of God .

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I recently published a bible study on why the Torah of Moses has not been abolished, why it is still necessary, what the Messiah meant when he said "I came to fulfill the Torah",

The Torah is the book of the " old laws" and they pertained to the old covenant between God and man.

We are under the New Covenant which is NOT made between God and man BUT between God and Jesus and man becomes beneficiary to this Covenant once He becomes Born Again.

Why do you add confusion unto the truth?
Is it because you study Gods Word intellectually and not Spiritually?

Blessings

 

[povawiqe]

The Torah is the book of the " old laws" and they pertained to the old covenant between God and man.

We are under the New Covenant which is NOT made between God and man BUT between God and Jesus and man becomes beneficiary to this Covenant once He becomes Born Again.

Why do you add confusion unto the truth?
Is it because you study Gods Word intellectually and not Spiritually?

Blessings

Are "you shall not steal" and "you shall not murder" and "a man shall not wear women's clothing" old laws? The Messiah said, "I did not come to abolish the Torah" and "until heaven and earth passes away, not one jot or one tittle shall disappear from the Torah". Clearly the one in error is you, having become lawless, by discarding the Torah. And that is why the Torah speaks against you, "hear you earth, I am bringing destruction on this people because they have rejected my Torah", which coincides with what the Messiah said, "many will call me lord, lord, but I will say to them, depart from me you workers of lawlessness!" Lawlessness means living without the Law of God, which is the Torah, hence "law-less-ness".

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Are "you shall not steal" and "you shall not murder" and "a man shall not wear women's clothing" old laws? The Messiah said, "I did not come to abolish the Torah" and "until heaven and earth passes away, not one jot or one tittle shall disappear from the Torah". Clearly the one in error is you, having become lawless, by discarding the Torah. And that is why the Torah speaks against you, "hear you earth, I am bringing destruction on this people because they have rejected my Torah", which coincides with what the Messiah said, "many will call me lord, lord, but I will say to them, depart from me you workers of lawlessness!" Lawlessness means living without the Law of God, which is the Torah, hence "law-less-ness".

Greetings,
The way in which you are running particular scriptures together is causing confusion

Scripture to take Note of

Luke 10:27
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:37-40

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38. This is the first and great commandment.

39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

How does this Apply?
Simply this..
When you Walk in The Love as directed above
You will Not
Murder or Steal or Commit Adultery or Lie or Covet and so forth.

Know YOUR Covenant or Contract
Understand Gods Most Holy Written Word
Speak the Truth
Enjoy your salvation
Blessings
Wired

 

[povawiqe]

Greetings,
The way in which you are running particular scriptures together is causing confusion

Scripture to take Note of

Luke 10:27
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:37-40

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38. This is the first and great commandment.

39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

How does this Apply?
Simply this..
When you Walk in The Love as directed above
You will Not
Murder or Steal or Commit Adultery or Lie or Covet and so forth.

Know YOUR Covenant or Contract
Understand Gods Most Holy Written Word
Speak the Truth
Enjoy your salvation
Blessings
Wired

"Love your neighbor as yourself" is a commandment of the Torah, along with "love God with all your heart". And the Messiah declared that on these two commandments hung the entire Torah and the prophets, not because these two commandments excluded the rest of the commandments of the Torah, but because these two commandments included them in a summarized way, for if you say "I love my neighbor!" in obedience to one command, yet you steal from your neighbor, not only have you broken "you shall not steal from your neighbor", but also "you shall love your neighbor as yourself", because the one command includes the other. Again, you err in your understanding of God. You are lawless, and stubborn.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Are "you shall not steal" and "you shall not murder" and "a man shall not wear women's clothing" old laws? The Messiah said, "I did not come to abolish the Torah" and "until heaven and earth passes away, not one jot or one tittle shall disappear from the Torah". Clearly the one in error is you, having become lawless, by discarding the Torah. And that is why the Torah speaks against you, "hear you earth, I am bringing destruction on this people because they have rejected my Torah", which coincides with what the Messiah said, "many will call me lord, lord, but I will say to them, depart from me you workers of lawlessness!" Lawlessness means living without the Law of God, which is the Torah, hence "law-less-ness".

Hello Brother povawiqe,
Back at it I see.
By the rationale that you are using brother then all of it is still in affect, when was your last stoning of a Law Breaker??? Sorry, as a Gentile, I will acknowledge the Law but will not be brought under it's bondage, that no one including yourself has ever been able to follow perfectly, but our Lord Jesus Christ.

We know that Jesus' Earthly Ministry was first and foremost directed to the Nation of Israeli, which required them in turn to reject Him, opening the door/way to Salvation through the Son of God, by Grace and not the Law unto the Gentiles. Paul was given the Ministry to the Gentiles, though he would still first introduce the Gospel to the Jewish community/Synagogues, and then to the Gentiles in his travels. Not reinforcing the mandate to follow the Law, but introducing Grace to even the learned Jews/Followers of the Torah.

You willingly convert or are of the Jewish Faith from birth, but my conversion was from Darkness to Light.
You will not find "life" in the Law, only in Christ Jesus brother.
You are a Child of God by faith in Jesus Christ! Allow Him to be your guide and not the Law. He is your Wisdom, Righteousness, Sanctification and Redemption!!!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC by Grace not the Law.
Nick

 

[povawiqe]

Hello Brother povawiqe,
Back at it I see.
By the rationale that you are using brother then all of it is still in affect, when was your last stoning of a Law Breaker??? Sorry, as a Gentile, I will acknowledge the Law but will not be brought under it's bondage, that no one including yourself has ever been able to follow perfectly, but our Lord Jesus Christ.

We know that Jesus' Earthly Ministry was first and foremost directed to the Nation of Israeli, which required them in turn to reject Him, opening the door/way to Salvation through the Son of God, by Grace and not the Law unto the Gentiles. Paul was given the Ministry to the Gentiles, though he would still first introduce the Gospel to the Jewish community/Synagogues, and then to the Gentiles in his travels. Not reinforcing the mandate to follow the Law, but introducing Grace to even the learned Jews/Followers of the Torah.

You willingly convert or are of the Jewish Faith from birth, but my conversion was from Darkness to Light.
You will not find "life" in the Law, only in Christ Jesus brother.
You are a Child of God by faith in Jesus Christ! Allow Him to be your guide and not the Law. He is your Wisdom, Righteousness, Sanctification and Redemption!!!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC by Grace not the Law.
Nick

The lawless still deserve to die, which is why Paul said, "knowing the righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die", but because we are in a time of mercy and repentance, we do not execute the condemnation of the Torah, but when the Messiah returns, he will execute the condemnation of the Torah the lawless deserve, which is death. The Torah was given through Israel to be presented unto the world, which is why it is written, "whatever the Torah says, it says to those who are under the Torah, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God". As such, you can only be released from the Torah if you are freed from sin, but even then, you still obey Torah, which is why it is written, "do we then nullify the Torah by our belief? Not so, we uphold Torah".

 

[Christ4Ever]

The lawless still deserve to die, which is why Paul said, "knowing the righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die", but because we are in a time of mercy and repentance, we do not execute the condemnation of the Torah, but when the Messiah returns, he will execute the condemnation of the Torah the lawless deserve, which is death. The Torah was given through Israel to be presented unto the world, which is why it is written, "whatever the Torah says, it says to those who are under the Torah, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God". As such, you can only be released from the Torah if you are freed from sin, but even then, you still obey Torah, which is why it is written, "do we then nullify the Torah by our belief? Not so, we uphold Torah".

We all deserve to die brother.
And it will be applying to us as well upon Judgment, but by His Sacrifice, and so applied Mercy and Grace the consequences of the Law won't be. If it is easier for you. See Grace as an addendum to the Law.

For there is not one of us who can follow it perfectly. Fall in one, whether past, present or future and you have failed in them all. If those who were brought up in the Law couldn't follow them to such a standard, even after receiving the Holy Spirit. Why would you when He's not asking you but to Love, which is truly it's application X10 do otherwise? This is why without Jesus Christ one will not be Saved from what is ahead for the World in Judgment, no matter how well one believes they have adhered to the Law.

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother! Back to work
God Bless you.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

The Torah was given through Israel to be presented unto the world,

The old law was given to the Jews of that day.
Unless you are a Jew living in that day.....You ARE NOT even invited into the old Covenant.

The Law is Good because it still shows sin in the unbeliever.

Jesus was and WILL ONLY be any one who can keep the old law.

Now we know the old law was impossible for any man other then Jesus to keep.

For Example
The Law says thou shall not commit adultery.

Now Jesus knowing no man can keep all of the law RAISED that law even HIGHER.
Jesus said if you even THINK about a woman in such a manner you have committed adultery and guilty of breaking all the laws.

However Jesus fulfilled the law. The only man that ever has or ever will. He did this for us and now through the Man Jesus Christ we can become right with God.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

"I love my neighbor!" in obedience to one command, yet you steal from your neighbor, not only have you broken "you shall not steal from your neighbor", but also "you shall love your neighbor as yourself", because the one command includes the other. Again, you err in your understanding of God. You are lawless, and stubborn.

Yes I am lawless where the old laws are concerned and very stubborn about Right Teaching. Thank you for noticing.

If you steal from your neighbor then you are not walking in the Commandment of Love.

Would you be concerned if Jesus was your neighbor about any of these things?

Stealing from you.
Committing adultery with your spouse?
Murdering your family and so forth.
Of course not.
So if we walk in the Love of God and Love of Jesus just as God and Jesus Loves.....
Neither will you.

Blessings

 

[povawiqe]

We all deserve to die brother.
And it will be applying to us as well upon Judgment, but by His Sacrifice, and so applied Mercy and Grace the consequences of the Law won't be. If it is easier for you. See Grace as an addendum to the Law.

For there is not one of us who can follow it perfectly. Fall in one, whether past, present or future and you have failed in them all. If those who were brought up in the Law couldn't follow them to such a standard, even after receiving the Holy Spirit. Why would you when He's not asking you but to Love, which is truly it's application X10 do otherwise? This is why without Jesus Christ one will not be Saved from what is ahead for the World in Judgment, no matter how well one believes they have adhered to the Law.

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother! Back to work :smile:
God Bless you.
YBIC
Nick
<><

The Messiah died to perfect his people, through his blood, which the blood of animals was never able to do, which is why it is written, "he has perfected in perpetuity those who are set apart". The standard of righteousness became higher with the Messiah, not lesser, as if the mercy and forgiveness that is currently found in the Messiah is now an excuse to become lawless, but quite the opposite, it is an opportunity to become righteous and perfect, as he has required "be perfect", and anything less than this, will be greater wrath than the Israelites experienced in their disobedience in the desert.

 

[povawiqe]

The old law was given to the Jews of that day.
Unless you are a Jew living in that day.....You ARE NOT even invited into the old Covenant.

The Law is Good because it still shows sin in the unbeliever.

Jesus was and WILL ONLY be any one who can keep the old law.

Now we know the old law was impossible for any man other then Jesus to keep.

For Example
The Law says thou shall not commit adultery.

Now Jesus knowing no man can keep all of the law RAISED that law even HIGHER.
Jesus said if you even THINK about a woman in such a manner you have committed adultery and guilty of breaking all the laws.

However Jesus fulfilled the law. The only man that ever has or ever will. He did this for us and now through the Man Jesus Christ we can become right with God.

The Messiah did not fulfill the Torah so that you can then go ahead and discard it and live lawlessly. This is a serious error.

 

[povawiqe]

Yes I am lawless where the old laws are concerned and very stubborn about Right Teaching. Thank you for noticing.

If you steal from your neighbor then you are not walking in the Commandment of Love.

Would you be concerned if Jesus was your neighbor about any of these things?

Stealing from you.
Committing adultery with your spouse?
Murdering your family and so forth.
Of course not.
So if we walk in the Love of God and Love of Jesus just as God and Jesus Loves.....
Neither will you.

Blessings

This logic does not make sense. Explain.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

The Messiah did not fulfill the Torah so that you can then go ahead and discard it and live lawlessly. This is a serious error.

When you walk upright ACCORDING to the New Law of Christ you are not walking lawless.

 

[povawiqe]

When you walk upright ACCORDING to the New Law of Christ you are not walking lawless.

The Torah of the Messiah is the Torah of Moses. Why do you think he died on the Passover, if not to fulfill the requirement of the Torah to sacrifice a lamb, or why he is coming a second time with the sound of trumpets, if not to fulfill the appointed time of the sound of the trumpets of the Torah? Even the thousand year rulership of the Messiah, which is a millennial Shabbath, fulfills the weekly Shabbath of the Torah. This is why, "until heaven and earth passes away, not one jot or one tittle will disappear from the Torah until all is fulfilled". As this earth exists, there is never a point where the Torah of Moses is abolished, and this is why even Paul said, "do we therefore nullify the Torah with this belief? Not so, we uphold the Torah". You err greatly, and your lawlessness will only lead to your condemnation, not the deliverance you hope to achieve. You are lawless, stubborn, and devoid of all truth and understanding.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

You err greatly, and your lawlessness will only lead to your condemnation, not the deliverance you hope to achieve. You are lawless, stubborn, and devoid of all truth and understanding.

See that's just it, there is now no CONDEMNATION to those in Christ.
However if you follow after the flesh then YES you will have condemnation.

Again thank you for taking the time to notice.

I am lawless where the BONDAGE of the old law is concerned. See Jesus has made me Righteous and I walk according to His Word.

Stubborn, you bet I am stubborn towards the Truth especially when some one is teaching things opposed to the written word of God.

Blessings

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

The Torah of the Messiah is the Torah of Moses

Would that not be seen as an oxymoron?
Torah = the book of the "Old Laws"
Messiah = Savior and Mediator of The New Covenant "Laws"

Hebrews 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

 

[povawiqe]

See that's just it, there is now no CONDEMNATION to those in Christ.
However if you follow after the flesh then YES you will have condemnation.

Again thank you for taking the time to notice.

I am lawless where the BONDAGE of the old law is concerned. See Jesus has made me Righteous and I walk according to His Word.

Stubborn, you bet I am stubborn towards the Truth especially when some one is teaching things opposed to the written word of God.

Blessings

There is no condemnation to those in the Messiah because those truly in the Messiah obey the Torah perfectly, not because they discard it, hence, "do we then nullify the Torah with this belief? Not so, we uphold Torah" and "I will put my airflow in you and cause you to obey my statutes and my judgments". You condemn yourself by believing the Torah is abolished, contrary to what the Messiah himself said, "I did not come to abolish the Torah" and "until heaven and earth passes away, not one jot or one tittle will disappear from the Torah". You are among these the apostles warned about,

They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.
Ephesians 4:18

as also in all the letters, speaking in them concerning these things; in which some things are hard to comprehend, which the illiterate and unstable make crooked, as also the rest of scriptures, to their own destruction. You then, beloved, foreknowing, guard that not by the delusion of the LAWLESS ones having been led away, you should fall from your own steadfastness! But grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and deliverer Yeshuah Messiah! To him be the glory both now and into the day of the aeon. Amen.

2 Peter 3:16-18

 

[povawiqe]

Would that not be seen as an oxymoron?
Torah = the book of the "Old Laws"
Messiah = Savior and Mediator of The New Covenant "Laws"

Hebrews 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Do you not understand that the Torah is the knowledge of sin? "You shall not murder", "you shall not steal", "a man shall not wear women's clothing" have not been discarded with the first coming of the Messiah. This is why the Torah of the Messiah is the Torah of Moses, because the definition of "sin" in the Torah of the Messiah is defined through the Torah of Moses. Why else do you think Paul says homosexuals and adulterers shall not inherit the kingdom of God, if not by the commands of the Torah of Moses that say, "a man shall not lay with another man" and "you shall not commit adultery". This is why it is said, "the Torah was our schoolmaster unto the Messiah" and "the Torah is the embodiment of all knowledge and truth" and "I would not have known sin had the Torah not said 'you shall not covet'". Why is it so difficult to understand these things? I know why, because you do not like the Torah and want to remain in your lawlessness.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

There is no condemnation to those in the Messiah because those truly in the Messiah obey the Torah perfectly,

Wow by what you have written condemns you for NO MAN other then Jesus has ever or will ever keep the book of the old law perfectly.

Your very own thinking here does away with Grace through Jesus and puts it back on the "Works of Man"

Bad move!!