The Rapture

[Bill]

How can you not believe something so clearly laid out in scripture. Go and read 1 Thes. 4 & 5 (chapters.) Paul teaches the rapture and tells us when.

There is confusion on the rapture issue because Scripture talks clearly of mankind joining with Jesus upon His return.

This teaching of christian experiencing a great escape prior to all the manure hitting the fan, so to speak, makes no sense.

What purpose is there being prepared for the bridesgroom, if there is no challenge. And why bother telling the ungodly about the mark of the beast. The ungodly are not going to bother reading the bible..

And what about the teachings of being the good steward, and being your brothers keeper.

Its been a long time sinse i heard any preachers talk on these subjects. Yet these are way more important than any preaching on a self serving rapture theory

 

[B-A-C]

There is confusion on the rapture issue because Scripture talks clearly of mankind joining with Jesus upon His return.

This teaching of christian experiencing a great escape prior to all the manure hitting the fan, so to speak, makes no sense.

What purpose is there being prepared for the bridesgroom, if there is no challenge. And why bother telling the ungodly about the mark of the beast. The ungodly are not going to bother reading the bible..

Even if all that is correct, and Christians go through the tribulation, there will still be a rapture. It may be even coincide with the second coming, but there will be a rapture.
The word "rapture" simply means "caught-up" or "gathered-up".

We will certainly be gathered up into the clouds with Him.

1 Thes 4:16; For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Thes 4:17; Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

 

[Bendito]

There is confusion on the rapture issue because Scripture talks clearly of mankind joining with Jesus upon His return.

This teaching of christian experiencing a great escape prior to all the manure hitting the fan, so to speak, makes no sense.

What purpose is there being prepared for the bridesgroom, if there is no challenge. And why bother telling the ungodly about the mark of the beast. The ungodly are not going to bother reading the bible..

And what about the teachings of being the good steward, and being your brothers keeper.

Its been a long time sinse i heard any preachers talk on these subjects. Yet these are way more important than any preaching on a self serving rapture theory

Bill..There is no confusion in the Word....Only in those who do not want to accept the Word as it's written. The Book talks of a rapture and a second coming. We're looking at two separate events

 

[Bill]

Even if all that is correct, and Christians go through the tribulation, there will still be a rapture. It may be even coincide with the second coming, but there will be a rapture.
The word "rapture" simply means "caught-up" or "gathered-up".

We will certainly be gathered up into the clouds with Him.

1 Thes 4:16; For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Thes 4:17; Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Yes it would be correct to say we are caught up with Jesus upon his return.

It is this nonsense of escaping planet earth before Christ's return i have issues with

 

[Bendito]

Yes it would be correct to say we are caught up with Jesus upon his return.

It is this nonsense of escaping planet earth before Christ's return i have issues with

Why is it nonsense? There are instances where it's happened before, in the bible

 

[Bill]

Bill..There is no confusion in the Word....Only in those who do not want to accept the Word as it's written. The Book talks of a rapture and a second coming. We're looking at two separate events

The bible has a whole slew of double messages .

The prophet states, the Lord will suddenly be in your mist. Yet we also know that Jesus was born by Mary.

The Day of the Lord, is the same as the Six Seal.

Elijah would return, yet we know John the Baptism was born. But still even Jesus states that John was Elijah, and that Elijah would return again.

And so on.

So with all the double imaging, you dont think that the rapture and the "caught up" are the same.

 

[Bill]

Why is it nonsense? There are instances where it's happened before, in the bible

Not on the scale of the great escape. Only ppl i know are Enoch and Elijah

 

[Bill]

Why is it nonsense? There are instances where it's happened before, in the bible

It becomes nonsense because instead of focusing on BEING Christian. Thier minds are drawn away almost to the point of self preservation.

Chistians should already not fear any of the future events, not because they feel they are going to escape them. But because God will be with them through it all

 

[lecoope]

There is confusion on the rapture issue because Scripture talks clearly of mankind joining with Jesus upon His return.

This teaching of christian experiencing a great escape prior to all the manure hitting the fan, so to speak, makes no sense.

What purpose is there being prepared for the bridesgroom, if there is no challenge. And why bother telling the ungodly about the mark of the beast. The ungodly are not going to bother reading the bible..

And what about the teachings of being the good steward, and being your brothers keeper.

Its been a long time sinse i heard any preachers talk on these subjects. Yet these are way more important than any preaching on a self serving rapture theory

Of course it makes sense! go back and read in Daniel 9 that the 70 weeks (of years) is for DANIEL'S people, not the church. In Daniel 12 God tells us that his purpose is to completely shatter the power of the holy people (Israel) THEN the end will come. You see, Israel as a nation trusts in their IDF, not in God. Well, God is going to take them to the place where their IDF is gone: they have only one chance left: if God rescues them - and He will.

The church is left out of this. We did reject Christ as Israel as a nation did.

Next, God has sworn that He will NOT make any appointments for the church with His wrath. Face it: the 70th week IS His wrath poured out. make no mistake: the church will be taken to a place of safety (heaven: see John 14) while God pours out His wrath on a world that hates Him.

Next, what bridegroom would send people to beat his bride nearly to death - then come and tell her how much he loves her! What bride would then go ahead and marry him? What kind of God do you imagine we serve?

The mark of the beast scriptures are there for those who will be left behind. Just so you know, kids in Israel have classes on the NEW TESTAMENT in school! I was shocked to learn this, but two separate high school students in Israel told me.

It is good to make sure what we believe is the Word of God as written.

 

[lecoope]

It becomes nonsense because instead of focusing on BEING Christian. Thier minds are drawn away almost to the point of self preservation.

Chistians should already not fear any of the future events, not because they feel they are going to escape them. But because God will be with them through it all

It sounds good, but when people know the scriptures, they see this as theory from human reasoning. Yes, God WILL be with those that are left behind - right up until they are overcome. Then He will take their spirit and soul to heaven to wait out the rest of the 70th week.

 

[lecoope]

Not on the scale of the great escape. Only ppl i know are Enoch and Elijah

The bible has a whole slew of double messages .

The prophet states, the Lord will suddenly be in your mist. Yet we also know that Jesus was born by Mary.

The Day of the Lord, is the same as the Six Seal.

Elijah would return, yet we know John the Baptism was born. But still even Jesus states that John was Elijah, and that Elijah would return again.

And so on.

So with all the double imaging, you dont think that the rapture and the "caught up" are the same.

Correction: the day of the Lord STARTS at the 6th seal. Without a doubt, Elijah will be one of the two witnesses.

 

[lecoope]

Yes it would be correct to say we are caught up with Jesus upon his return.

It is this nonsense of escaping planet earth before Christ's return i have issues with

Why have issues with what is written? Jesus went to make homes for us in heaven. He will come and get us and take us to those homes. It is not a difficult passage.

 

[Dave M]

It becomes nonsense because instead of focusing on BEING Christian. Thier minds are drawn away almost to the point of self preservation.

Christians should already not fear any of the future events, not because they feel they are going to escape them. But because God will be with them through it all

T

NO matter what your stance on the timing of the rapture (because there is a rapture), the way you live should not be effected one way or another, if the timming of the rapture effects the way you live, you might need to recheck if you are a Christian

its the BIBLE the WORD of GOD we need to read all of it many times over and over including the book of Revelations!!!! .

-----------these people do not appear to be killed they just came out of the great tribulation
Revelation 7:14
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


___________The people appear to have been killed in the tribulation and possibly at other times in history but definatley in the tribulation,
Revelation 6:9-11
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.


I personally dont see how anyone could claim 100% of the timing of the rapture, but on the other hand I dont see how anyone can deny there is going to be a rapture

 

[Dave M]

The ungodly are not going to bother reading the bible..

WOW I hope I am misunderstanding this, because we were all once ungodly yet we now read the bible, you just gave up on all unsaved people with this statement, just like you and I were once unsaved. Please tell me I am not understanding you correctly

 

[Dave M]

It is this nonsense of escaping planet earth before Christ's return i have issues with

how would you explain the below verse, then

Revelation 7:14
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[Bendito]

Of course it makes sense! go back and read in Daniel 9 that the 70 weeks (of years) is for DANIEL'S people, not the church. In Daniel 12 God tells us that his purpose is to completely shatter the power of the holy people (Israel) THEN the end will come. You see, Israel as a nation trusts in their IDF, not in God. Well, God is going to take them to the place where their IDF is gone: they have only one chance left: if God rescues them - and He will.

The church is left out of this. We did reject Christ as Israel as a nation did.

Next, God has sworn that He will NOT make any appointments for the church with His wrath. Face it: the 70th week IS His wrath poured out. make no mistake: the church will be taken to a place of safety (heaven: see John 14) while God pours out His wrath on a world that hates Him.

Next, what bridegroom would send people to beat his bride nearly to death - then come and tell her how much he loves her! What bride would then go ahead and marry him? What kind of God do you imagine we serve?

The mark of the beast scriptures are there for those who will be left behind. Just so you know, kids in Israel have classes on the NEW TESTAMENT in school! I was shocked to learn this, but two separate high school students in Israel told me.

It is good to make sure what we believe is the Word of God as written.

While I'm not sure about what you say on Daniel, your logic is sound....He WILL surely take His bride out before the wrath part of the tribulation. Only....I'm not sure either that ALL Christians are part of that bride....The bride has made herself ready....Not all who call themselves Christians are doing that.

 

[lecoope]

T

NO matter what your stance on the timing of the rapture (because there is a rapture), the way you live should not be effected one way or another, if the timming of the rapture effects the way you live, you might need to recheck if you are a Christian

its the BIBLE the WORD of GOD we need to read all of it many times over and over including the book of Revelations!!!! .

-----------these people do not appear to be killed they just came out of the great tribulation
Revelation 7:14
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


___________The people appear to have been killed in the tribulation and possibly at other times in history but definatley in the tribulation,
Revelation 6:9-11
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.


I personally dont see how anyone could claim 100% of the timing of the rapture, but on the other hand I dont see how anyone can deny there is going to be a rapture

Truthfully, the book of Revelation does have timing markers that shows us timing of events. For example, there is timing information for the first seals - yet people ignore the context and imagine they are in our future. Go back and study chapters 4 & 5. In chapter 5 John saw in a vision the very time that Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down....circa 23 AD. There is no 2000 years to be found from there to the end of chapter 5, or in the first verses of chapter 6. John is telling us that the first seals were opened around 32 AD - as soon as Jesus ascended and got the book into His hands. Seal one is the church sent out with the gospel. Seals 2 through 4 is the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. Seal 5 is the martyrs of the CHURCH AGE. And here is the first hint of a long wait: they are wondering WHEN Judgment will come - but they were in the age of grace - judgment will be pushed off until the age of grace has ended.

When will this age end? Not until the rapture. In short, they were told they must wait for the rapture that will end the time of grace - and THEN judgment will start. There will be a total number of church age martyrs. God knows the number.

As for the great crowd too large to number: John has not yet started the "trib" or 70th week,. much less arrived at the days of GT that Jesus spoke of. John is not telling us they came from the last half of the week, for in John's narrative he has not yet started the week. All John is telling us is that at the time of the rapture, people we be being martyred around the world. It is in half the world already.

 

[Sue D.]

As a believer -- we Should be sharing the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen Willingly. And God's Word Should be affecting the way we live.

@lecoope -- those who are left behind after the Church has been raptured up, referring to your post #170 -- those raptured up will be believers. The indwelling Holy Spirit has kept them safely 'saved' until they are with Jesus Christ. But you're talking about those left down here on earth. Non-believers. Either those who have actively rejected Jesus Christ' salvation Or those too young to understand and are growing up during the seven years of tribulation. But Scripture tells us that God will send a great delusion to those who have already rejected. They Won't all of a sudden 'see the truth' and come to Christ. There probably will be those left behind who haven't actively rejected Christ ,they just didn't accept Him, yet. But during the 7 yrs. of tribulation, life is going to be Hard. And those who Do Accept Christ will become martyrs. But those 7 yrs. are mainly for the Jewish population -- God's chosen people who rejected Him and are still alive. They will have a second chance to accept Christ as their Messiah, but it will be hard for them, also.

So -- a person Could die 'tonight' in an accident or be alive when the rapture Does take place. So it Is a good idea to make sure 'now' of our personal Salvation. No one is assured of 'tomorrow'.

 

[Bendito]

Not on the scale of the great escape. Only ppl i know are Enoch and Elijah

Noe....The flood was a major event. There are others too

 

[Bill]

how would you explain the below verse, then

Revelation 7:14
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

There is confussion on timelines. Ppl keep trying to figure out when all these things will take place.

But i am telling you , untill the Great Day of the Lord is revealed , no one will know with any certainty. And it will show most theories that are preached in todays world to be farlse.