Grace vs the Law, debate #23,578

[Quantrill]

Bendito, concerning your post #18:

That law in (Matt. 22:37-40), is the epitome of the Law. Thus it can be identified with the Law Paul spoke of In (Rom. 7:9) "...when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."

Then Paul says in (Rom. 7:11), "...sin taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it (the Law) slew me. " Parenthesis mine.

If God tells us to do something, then yes we should do it. We should always obey God. But as hard as we may try, we won't. We will fail at keeping God's laws. Our intent may be 100% correct. But, the Law cares not for intent. It only cares for obedience. Thus it always finds us guilty.

Concerning the giving of the Law we are told that the people said yes we will obey the Lord. (Ex. 24:3) "...All the words which the LORD hath said will we do." And again, in (24:7), "...All that the LORD hath said will we do and be obedient." And what did Moses say after that? (Ex. 24:8) "...Behold the blood...." Because you are going to need it.

As soon as you make something 'law', behold the blood.

Quantrill

 

[Bendito]

Bendito, concerning your post #18:

That law in (Matt. 22:37-40), is the epitome of the Law. Thus it can be identified with the Law Paul spoke of In (Rom. 7:9) "...when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."

Then Paul says in (Rom. 7:11), "...sin taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it (the Law) slew me. " Parenthesis mine.

If God tells us to do something, then yes we should do it. We should always obey God. But as hard as we may try, we won't. We will fail at keeping God's laws. Our intent may be 100% correct. But, the Law cares not for intent. It only cares for obedience. Thus it always finds us guilty.

Concerning the giving of the Law we are told that the people said yes we will obey the Lord. (Ex. 24:3) "...All the words which the LORD hath said will we do." And again, in (24:7), "...All that the LORD hath said will we do and be obedient." And what did Moses say after that? (Ex. 24:8) "...Behold the blood...." Because you are going to need it.

As soon as you make something 'law', behold the blood.

Quantrill

OK..Clear and concise.

 

[regibassman57]

@Quantrill,

Bendito, concerning your post #18:

That law in (Matt. 22:37-40), is the epitome of the Law. Thus it can be identified with the Law Paul spoke of In (Rom. 7:9) "...when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."

Then Paul says in (Rom. 7:11), "...sin taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it (the Law) slew me. " Parenthesis mine.

If God tells us to do something, then yes we should do it. We should always obey God. But as hard as we may try, we won't. We will fail at keeping God's laws. Our intent may be 100% correct. But, the Law cares not for intent. It only cares for obedience. Thus it always finds us guilty.

Concerning the giving of the Law we are told that the people said yes we will obey the Lord. (Ex. 24:3) "...All the words which the LORD hath said will we do." And again, in (24:7), "...All that the LORD hath said will we do and be obedient." And what did Moses say after that? (Ex. 24:8) "...Behold the blood...." Because you are going to need it.

As soon as you make something 'law', behold the blood.

Quantrill

Do you believe God commands a person to do something He knows is impossible? And afterwards if they fail God will punish them for their disobedience?

 

[Quantrill]

@Quantrill,


Do you believe God commands a person to do something He knows is impossible? And afterwards if they fail God will punish them for their disobedience?

In a short answer....yes.

Quantrill

 

[Bendito]

@Quantrill,


Do you believe God commands a person to do something He knows is impossible? And afterwards if they fail God will punish them for their disobedience?

Why would I believe a thing like that about God? The answer is a definite NO
Hmmm It looks like Bendito and Mr Quantrill disagree again....no surprise there.

 

[Quantrill]

Why would I believe a thing like that about God? The answer is a definite NO
Hmmm It looks like Bendito and Mr Quantrill disagree again....no surprise there.

Do you believe that Adam and Eve in their innocence in the garden is the desired end of what God wanted? And had they not sinned and produced a vast amount of believers who were free from sin and never knew sin, that that was what God wanted?

Quantrill

 

[Bendito]

Do you believe that Adam and Eve in their innocence in the garden is the desired end of what God wanted? And had they not sinned and produced a vast amount of believers who were free from sin and never knew sin, that that was what God wanted?

Quantrill

Are you saying that God wanted Adam to sin? Are you saying that God made the garden, put Adam in there just so He could kick them out? Or did God have it in mind for us to live in the garden, with Him, forever?

 

[Quantrill]

Are you saying that God wanted Adam to sin? Are you saying that God made the garden, put Adam in there just so He could kick them out? Or did God have it in mind for us to live in the garden, with Him, forever?

Hold up pardner. I asked you first. You have not answered my questions in post # (26).

Quantrill

 

[regibassman57]

@Quantrill, ,

In a short answer....yes.

Quantrill

I believe God is the same yesterday, today and forever in His character of Righteousness. Everything God commands a man to do is possible. God will not allow Satan to tempt a man above his ability; God is not going to tempt man above his ability. Scripture does not teach God commands a man to do something he is not able to do (1Cor. 10:13).

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Deuteronomy 30:20
That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

God cannot lie.

 

[Bendito]

Hold up pardner. I asked you first. You have not answered my questions in post # (26).

Quantrill

Just to make you happy....even though I did answer the question,(with a question)
Or did God have it in mind for us to live in the garden, with Him, forever? Yes! I strongly believe THIS to be so. God did not put us on the Earth to sin. He put us on the Earth so that He would have somebody to love.

 

[Quantrill]

@Quantrill, ,


I believe God is the same yesterday, today and forever in His character of Righteousness. Everything God commands a man to do is possible. God will not allow Satan to tempt a man above his ability; God is not going to tempt man above his ability. Scripture does not teach God commands a man to do something he is not able to do (1Cor. 10:13).

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Deuteronomy 30:20
That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

God cannot lie.

If everything God commands a man to do is possible, why did He send Jesus Christ, His only Son?

Quantrill

 

[Bendito]

If everything God commands a man to do is possible, why did He send Jesus Christ, His only Son?

Quantrill

OMGoodness! You don't know? Jesus was the only one who had NEVER sinned...How can a sinner pay for the sins of the world?

 

[Quantrill]

Just to make you happy....even though I did answer the question,(with a question)
Or did God have it in mind for us to live in the garden, with Him, forever? Yes! I strongly believe THIS to be so. God did not put us on the Earth to sin. He put us on the Earth so that He would have somebody to love.

Then why did He put the Tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden? Why did He let the serpent in the garden? I mean, if innocence in the garden is what God wanted, He had it without the Tree and without satan in the garden. Didn't He? He can do as He wills, correct?

Quantrill

 

[Bendito]

Then why did He put the Tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden? Why did He let the serpent in the garden? I mean, if innocence in the garden is what God wanted, He had it without the Tree and without satan in the garden. Didn't He? He can do as He wills, correct?

Quantrill

I suggest you think about that...Do you have kids? Think about that tree in relation to a father and his children....If you think about it honestly, you'll see why the tree was there.

 

[Quantrill]

OMGoodness! You don't know? Jesus was the only one who had NEVER sinned...How can a sinner pay for the sins of the world?

You miss the point. If everything God commands man to do is possible, why send Jesus Christ His only Son to pay for what man could not do?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

I suggest you think about that...Do you have kids? Think about that tree in relation to a father and his children....If you think about it honestly, you'll see why the tree was there.

That is no answer. I have thought about it which is why I said it. Again you do not answer my question. If innocence was what God wanted, He didn't need the tree or satan.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

OMGoodness! You don't know? Jesus was the only one who had NEVER sinned...How can a sinner pay for the sins of the world?

Well, yes, but if it is possible for man to not sin, why send Jesus Christ. Just wait for those who do not sin, and enjoy life in the garden.

Quantrill

 

[regibassman57]

@Quantrill,

Do you believe that Adam and Eve in their innocence in the garden is the desired end of what God wanted? And had they not sinned and produced a vast amount of believers who were free from sin and never knew sin, that that was what God wanted?

Quantrill

When God created Adam and Eve in the Garden, He established an everlasting covenant and time for growth; but Adam broke the everlasting covenant. Jesus came representing man as the second Adam to "re"-established the everlasting covenant between God and man. It was not God's will for man to sin, this is why Jesus came and "re"-deemed man to his original position in God. Once a covenant is broken, it must be fulfilled. Once Jesus fulfilled the covenant, it could be changed. Jesus fulfilled the Adamic and Mosaic Law and ushered in the new everlasting covenant that can never be broken.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

This was the principle of the priesthood pertaining to the law of God.

 

[Quantrill]

@Quantrill,


When God created Adam and Eve in the Garden, He established an everlasting covenant and time for growth; but Adam broke the everlasting covenant. Jesus came representing man as the second Adam to "re"-established the everlasting covenant between God and man. It was not God's will for man to sin, this is why Jesus came and "re"-deemed man to his original position in God. Once a covenant is broken, it must be fulfilled. Once Jesus fulfilled the covenant, it could be changed. Jesus fulfilled the Adamic and Mosaic Law and ushered in the new everlasting covenant that can never be broken.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

This was the principle of the priesthood pertaining to the law of God.

That is all true and well and good. But, if God wanted man to remain in innocence, why did he place the tree in the garden? Why did he let satan in the garden? He didn't have to. And everyone could have been forever innocent and pure. Correct?

Quantrill

 

[Bendito]

That is no answer. I have thought about it which is why I said it. Again you do not answer my question. If innocence was what God wanted, He didn't need the tree or satan.

Quantrill

All right...I suggested you think about it, and its obvious that you find it too difficult. So maybe you could think about this... I'm assuming you have kids? OK Every single creature God created has free will...Do you think God would rob his favorite creation of that right to choose? No He would not. If the tree had not been put into the garden there would have been NO choice....Now your kids....Would you rather they could choose to follow your example, or would you rather they have no choice but to follow your every word, your every move like a bunch of Mini-me's? God doe not want mini-mes either...Thus....The tree and we have a choice.