JESUS THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW TESTAMENT

[JesusIs4Me]

@JesusIs4Me,
You do not believe a person can believe God in vain. You believe after a person confesses Jesus as Lord they are saved forever. You believe they have no responsiblity That's not the case. A person can receive Jesus in vain. They will know at the time of judgment when God will make manifest what is in the heart of man.

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also you have received, and wherein you stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also you are saved, "IF" (conditionally) you keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless "you have believed in vain."

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

As soon as an unbeliever receives God's word in their heart confessing Jesus is Lord, that person is saved. If they are not obedient to God's word and abide in Christ, they have believed in vain. They will stay in the body of Christ until God judges His church. Then they will have their part with the unbelievers and be partaker of God's wrath.

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Unbelievers are not children of disobedience, only God's children can obey God's word.

I believe once saved .. you are always saved because He cannot lose any one of all the Father has given Him as promised in John 6:39-40 BUT Jesus warned not every saved believer will be found abiding in Him as His disciple to be taken to the Marriage Supper in Heaven ( Luke 12:40-49 ) just as not every believer as a disciple will be willing to leave their lives down here when the Bridegroom comes thus not counting the cost of discipleship ( Luke 14:15-33 ) and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth like Esau over the loss of their birthright when they find themselves left behind to face the fire coming on the earth and the coming great tribulation as a result. But as the prodigal son had given up his inheritance for wild living and cannot get it back, he will come home and find that he is still son.

That is why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House. So yes... saved believers will be held accountable for what they have sown towards; but loss of salvation is not one of them. His seal of adoption is not going anywhere for why we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit; Ephesians 4:30 So it is better to look to Jesus for help to not only discern iniquity, but lean on Him for help to depart from them or risk being left behind for unrepentant iniquity to be resurrected after the great tribulation.

 

[regibassman57]

@JesusIs4Me,
Who do you think Paul is talking to here? Believers or unbelievers?

1Co 6:9 Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that you should not obey the truth?

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@JesusIs4Me,
Who do you think Paul is talking to here? Believers or unbelievers?

1Co 6:9 Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that you should not obey the truth?

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Believers in regards to not sowing to the flesh or else be disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven for unrepentant iniquity.

The first fruit of the resurrection of being that vessel unto honor in His House to attend that Marriage Supper is the high prize of our calling which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus.

However, YOU have to discern why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House thus indicating another type of inheritance for why the prodigal son is still son, even though he can never get that first inheritance back after giving it up for wild living.

Read this very carefully.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

So just like how the lie of the evolution theory has misled many and overthrew their faith in Jesus Christ, there is that important word next by Paul... "Nevertheless..."


19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

So the call to depart from iniquity is not just given to saved believers living in sin, but even to former believers.

Now next we read that there are 2 kinds of vessels in His House.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

So there are vessels unto honor and there are vessels unto dishonor; vessels of god and of silver which is of the first fruit of the resurrection, and vessels of wood and of earth that is the other kind of inheritance.

21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

By departing from iniquity is how a saved believer can be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House.

Which also states that those who do not depart from iniquity shall be received by Him as vessel unto dishonor in His House; which will not be taken at the same time as the vessels unto honor, because those left behind as castaways are the reasons why they are called as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

The first fruit shall inherit the kingdom of Heaven whereby they will be like the angels that never die, never marry, have a mansion in the city of God, and attend the Marriage Supper in His honor.

The prodigal sons shall be resurrected after the great tribulation to serve the King of kings from various places all over the new earth where there is no longer any sea; they will serve as examples to the coming generations during the millennium reign whereby they will marry and raise children and reign as kings and priests in representing the name of God and that city of God all over the world. The power of the second death will not be over them, but the first power still can for why they will need to eat from the tree of life in the city of God. See the difference between the 2 inheritance for why there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth like Esau did for trading in his birthright for a meal?

in Luke 12:40-49, thise cut off are still called His servants as they will receive stripes per the measure of knowledge they had or not had for failure to be abiding in Him when the Bridegroom had come & they got left behind.

So there is a glory of a celestial body and then there is a glory of a terrestrial body.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming...........35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? ...... 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

That is why Jesus & Paul was warning believers to be ready or else wind up being like Esau and the prodigal son, but even as vessels unto dishonor, they are in His House still for testifying to the power of God in salvation for ALL who believe in Him, even in His name, and that includes former believers still having His seal.

 

[regibassman57]

@JesusIs4Me,
You said:
"Believers in regards to not sowing to the flesh" or else be disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven for unrepentant iniquity."

These scriptures in 1Corinthians 6 and Galatians 5 in context is about them being warned. They are being warned they could lose their salvation of obtaining the Kingdom of God if they continue in the things they were doing, and they will not inherit Eternal Life.They will not be a part of the married of Christ. If they do not have the Kingdom of God, they will not married to Christ.

Scriptures teach, that no man can come unto Jesus Christ except they are taught of God. Unless a man is taught of God and has learned of God, He will not give him unto His Son to Marry Him. He will not raise him up at the last day (Joh. 6:44, 45).

The scriptures I've texted to you are talking to two churches that has received Jesus as Savior. The Corinthian Church and the Galatian Church:. This shows they are saved and also shows they can lose their salvation of obtaining Eternal Life which is the Kingdom of God.

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes "Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth", "crucified among you?"
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, "Received ye the Spirit" by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? "having begun in the Spirit," are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[regibassman57]

@Life,
I do not think people realize they cannot receive the Holy Ghost until they are delivered, cleansed and saved from their sins; which is through remission of sins eternally (Heb. 9:12).

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the “remission of sins,” and “you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

G859 (remission)
aphesis
From G863; freedom; (figuratively) pardon: - deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission.

If a person sins, they have not been pardoned from sin and set at liberty from their sins?

Act 3:19 Repent therefore, and be converted, that “your sins may be blotted out,” when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ (Joh 16:7), which before was preached unto you:

G1813 (blotted out)
exaleiphō
From G1537 and G218; to smear out, that is, obliterate (erase tears, figuratively pardon sin): - blot out, wipe away.

We are forgiven first, our sins are removed and we are set at liberty; “then” we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Sin and the Holy Ghost cannot merge in the same body. Sin is why God separated Himself from man (Isa. 59:2). This is why Jesus had to die and rise from the dead. In doing this Jesus took the victory over Satan who is sin; and condemned him (Rom. 8:3; Joh 16:11).

Jesus did not just condemn sin, but He condemned the penalty of sin first; which was death (Rom. 8:2). Jesus then rose from the dead and then took the victory over sin. The victory over sin could not happen if Jesus did not rise from the dead (1Cor. 15:14, 17).

DID JESUS TAKE THE VICTORY OVER SIN IN YOUR LIFE?

 

[bibleguy]

@Life,

Ephesians 2:8, 9
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Why do we as believers ignore what Jesus has done for us and reject His Gift? We accept Jesus paid the price of the penalty for sin, but we reject the gift; the freedom from the penalty of sin is not the gift! What is the "GIFT?"

Ephesians 2:4, 5
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we “were dead in sins," has quickened us (made us alive) together with Christ, (by grace you are saved) (Rom. 6:11, 12)

Greek definition of "saved":
G4982 σώζω [SW/ZW] {sṓzō} \sode'-zo\
from a primary σῶς [SW=S] {sōs} (contraction for obsolete σάος [SA/OS] {sáos}, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively):--heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

Saved from what? We are saved through the Mercy of God by Grace from sin. We "WERE" dead in sins; are we now made alive from sin yet still sin; after Jesus has saved us from sin?

1Co 15:14
And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Our preaching that Jesus has come into the world to save men from sin is in vain (1Co. 15:3).

1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; you are yet in your sins.

Everyone that believes they sin are yet in their sins.

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

What is the washing of regeneration? "The rebirth"
We've been washed from the sins of the old nature, by being born again into the Body of Christ, the new nature (Rom. 11:24; Col. 1:13). There are no sins in Christ; in the new nature (1Joh. 3:5). This must be understood by faith.

Greek definition of "regeneration":
G3824 παλιγγενεσία [PALIGGENESI/A] {palingenesía} \pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah\
from 3825 and 1078; (spiritual) rebirth (the state or the act), i.e. (figuratively) spiritual renovation; specially, Messianic restoration:--regeneration.

We as believers must do as God has taught us. We must call those things which we know are not literal as though they were (Rom. 4:17). Abraham was called a Father of many nations, but he had no sons. His wife was barren. God taught Abraham to call those things which are not as though they were because it was so in God’s mind (Rom. 3:4).

Confession for sins is part of the work for the atonement of sins. No man can do any works for the atonement of sins in Jesus Christ. Under the Mosaic Law it was Israel's responsibility to work for their atonement of sins. Once they did this, they were justified and pardoned of their sins in God's eyes. However, under the New Covenant in Christ, no believer is justified or pardoned from sins by any work they may do according to the ritual under the Mosaic Law; the just shall live by faith of what Jesus has already done for sins.

Jesus Christ died unto sin once; believers also die unto sins one. This is done when they initially confess their sin unto Jesus Christ (once), agreeing with Him they are a sinner (1Joh. 1:9; Rom. 10:9, 10). They are then forgiven of their sins forever.

Hi!

Couldn't help myself....

You wrote: "However, under the New Covenant in Christ, no believer is justified or pardoned from sins by any work they may do according to the ritual under the Mosaic Law; the just shall live by faith of what Jesus has already done for sins."

My response: Of course Jesus paid the price for us (which we could never pay by our own faithless works).

But that's no excuse to ignore the MANY Scriptural passages which plainly affirm that Christians should grow in faithful obedience to the Torah of Moses.

Thus, regi's comment is incorrect at many levels. Paul (in the NEW Testament!) said that those who do Torah will be justified (Rom. 2:13).

Jesus and the Apostles obeyed Torah and taught others to do the same (Mt. 5:19-20; 4:4; 7:21-23; 13:41-42; 22:37; 23:2-3,23,34; Lk. 10:25-28; Ac. 21).

Torah passes directly into the New Covenant (Jer. 31:33; Heb. 8:10; 10:15-16).

Prophecies GUARANTEE full restoration of Levitical/ceremonial/sacrificial Torah (Mal. 3; Zec. 14; Dt. 30:1-8; Jer. 33; Is. 66; Eze. 40-47).

And, "the just shall live by faith" refers to "emunah" (אֱמוּנָה) in Hab. 2:4. And what is this way of "emunah" by which Paul says we should live? TORAH! (see "emunah" in Ps. 119:30,86,138).

Now, I've brought forth these (and many other) considerations before regibassman57 before....

I still await his proper response to them.

blessings...

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,

I don’t know why you continue to act as if you’ve fulfilled my request. You have not sent me any scripture to prove your point as I've requested. I said I would change my view if you could prove your point with the scriptures I requested.

I’ve responded to you, per your request, and I've addressed your question and has given you the answer in scripture. You are very knowledgeable about God’s word so I’ve done what Solomon did and put the answer in scripture. God said His word is a mystery and the answer is in the scriptures I sent.

We have already agreed that Jesus paid the price for sin and we know we could not died for sins or for the penalty.

I have never disagreed or ignored that believers should keep God’s commandments of Love. If Love is of the Torah, so be it, I do not reject commandments of love.

Jesus Christ has already justified all believers. As I’ve said, a believer that does not keep God’s Love, will be gathered out of the Kingdom of God and cast into the lake of fire.
You say the full Torah will be restored; Ceremonial and Sacrificial. You’ve already said Jews and believers are not keeping these laws. You yourself are not keeping them. You know what that sounds like, but you’re trying to tell others what they should do.

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

When the complete law of Torah is restored, it will not be restored for Gentile believers. It will be restored for Israel as a nation that has not believed what Jesus has done for them and has rejected Him. They as a nation are blinded. However, in time they shall see (Rom. 11).

I believe faith in God’s word becoming flesh and believing every word he presents to us in obedience is what God's will is (Heb. 5:9; Joh. 6:28, 29; 12:49; Mar. 11:22).

You’ve said: Now, I've brought forth these (and many other) considerations before regibassman57 before.... I still await his proper response to them.

What is a proper response? I’ve addressed all you’ve presented to me in how I understand it. You have not addressed anything I’ve requested from you. The only thing you harp on is James 4:17. That’s been addressed in many different ways; then I addressed again above. You just do not understand. Let’s turn this around. I’M STILL WAITING ON YOUR RESPONSE TO MY SIMPLE REQUEST!

I think you said in a post, I'm asking for something impossible or unreasonable.

I'm only asking you to refute what scripture teaches Jesus did regarding sin. You have all the information you need.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@JesusIs4Me,
You said:
"Believers in regards to not sowing to the flesh" or else be disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven for unrepentant iniquity."

These scriptures in 1Corinthians 6 and Galatians 5 in context is about them being warned. They are being warned they could lose their salvation of obtaining the Kingdom of God if they continue in the things they were doing, and they will not inherit Eternal Life.They will not be a part of the married of Christ. If they do not have the Kingdom of God, they will not married to Christ.

Scriptures teach, that no man can come unto Jesus Christ except they are taught of God. Unless a man is taught of God and has learned of God, He will not give him unto His Son to Marry Him. He will not raise him up at the last day (Joh. 6:44, 45).

The scriptures I've texted to you are talking to two churches that has received Jesus as Savior. The Corinthian Church and the Galatian Church:. This shows they are saved and also shows they can lose their salvation of obtaining Eternal Life which is the Kingdom of God.

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes "Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth", "crucified among you?"
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, "Received ye the Spirit" by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? "having begun in the Spirit," are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

I had addressed the scripture you had posted in #122 by explaining what your reference actually mean in relations to those left behind at the pre great trib rapture event in post # 123. Please address post # 123 in reproving what I am sharing there which was by the scripture or don't which is hardly allowing for iron to sharpen iron when you ignore that which reproves HOW you are applying scripture to mean loss of salvation when that is not exactly what it says, but only a loss of inheritance..

 

[JesusIs4Me]

DID JESUS TAKE THE VICTORY OVER SIN IN YOUR LIFE?

Has Jesus taken victory over sin in your life in the way you are implying that you have never sinned since you were saved?

Have you ever boasted of plans to do good or made promises to do something some other day?

James 4:13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: 14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. 16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Have you ever NOT done a good thing in your life that you forgot to do or that it was too late to do it? Then that is sin, correct?

So yes, there is victory in Christ Jesus in that sin shall not have dominion over our lives that we be slaves to it any more, but that does not mean we will never be tempted nor sin again as if we have not need of Him as our Advocate when we do sin and certainly scripture goes to prove why we need to rely on Him all the time as our Good Shepherd to help us run the race in laying aside every weight & sin for abiding in Him as His disciple.

 

[regibassman57]

@JesusIs4Me,
If a Christian in the body of Christ does not love God and their neighbor will they inherit Eternal Life?

Yes, Jesus has taken the victory over sins in my life. I'm I still committing unfruitful works, Yes, but very rarely.

 

[Dave M]

@JesusIs4Me Regi believes a christian can never sin once born again. Regi believes he has never sinned once he became saved thats why he stated unfruitful works instead of sin interesting he did not answer the question directly . Looks like you guys are having a good discussion carrying on

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@JesusIs4Me,
If a Christian in the body of Christ does not love God and their neighbor will they inherit Eternal Life?

If you mean anyone hating his brother or sister will be received by the Bridegroom, then no, but that does not mean loss of salvation, but loss of their firstfruit inheritance In Heaven.

Imagine sitting at the Marriage Supper table and some one you hate is there. How is that good in Heaven?

I can be angry with a lot of brothers and sisters, but I forgive them because Jesus Christ helps me to forgive them for they know not what they do; just as I was when I was sinning against the Lord Jesus Christ.

I am required to forgive them and so I trust Jesus to help me to forgive them, even though the offense continues and they are not repenting nor confessing that as sin to God.

I know that if I see any of my enemies there at the Supper table, I will be glad because Jesus had delivered them from their sinful living in order to be there, and so they would not be sinning against me either in Heaven.

Those that are my unrepentant enemies that wind up as left behind, they will be delivered from their sins also, barring stripes they shall receive per the knowledge they had for not being ready to be found abiding in Him when the Bridegroom had come. God will wipe away every tears from those resurrected after the great tribulation and so He shall have me bearing no grievances against them either. They have paid their dues and Jesus has brought the prodigal sons Home omn earth.

Yes, Jesus has taken the victory over sins in my life. I'm I still committing unfruitful works, Yes, but very rarely.

Then be clear about how you say that a saved believer can never sin when we need Him as our Good Shepherd to help us abide in His words as His disciples to bear fruit so that our joy may be full in the fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Do not condemn any believer that sins as if he was never saved, but remind them that because Jesus Christ is in them, they will be responsible for everything they have done and if unrepentant, can run the risk of being denied entrance to the Supper in Heaven and wind up like the prodigal son and Esau, in weeping and gnashing of teeth. They need to look to Jesus Christ to help them lay aside every weight & sin in living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ or else.

2 Corinthians 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[regibassman57]

@JesusIs4Me,
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do God's commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Unless a believer does God's commandments, they will not only be unable to marry the Bride Groom, they will not be able to enter into the city where the Bride Groom is.

Rev 21:7 He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and "unbelieving," and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This confirms 1Corinthians 15:1, 2 and Galatians 5: 1-3. If we as believers overcome then we will inherit all things, but if we do not, we will be cast into the lake of fire. This is also what John is saying; we have power to "BECOME" sons of God (Joh. 1:12). God has placed it in our hand to be obedient through faith and follow Him. If we believe His word and are doers of His word we're good, if not we are deceiving ourselves (Jam. 1:22).

As far as sin goes; a believer or an unbeliever that does not believe Jesus took away their sins agree. The only way we as believers can live this life in Christ is to believe what God tells us. If Jesus said He took away our sins, and you say He did not take away our sins; it appear you are rejecting what Jesus said He did. I'm not rejecting anything He did. Why would you try to get me to believe Jesus did not take away our sin?

I am not the one who inspired John to speak the prophesy, "behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world." If you don't believe this, your agrument is not with me. You are agruing with me about something Jesus said He would do; I'm just confirming what He said. You actually are rejecting me as a witness to what Jesus did.

Rom 3:4 ...Let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou are judged (Rev.3:5).

 

[regibassman57]

@Life,
Sin is a work in God's mind that develops fruit through the wrong actions of sinners who do works that are against the law of God.

Sin is fruit that leaves the stain of Satan on the hearts of man in God's mind. Once Jesus came to atone for man's sins, God imputed and applied all the sins of man upon the fleshly body of Jesus Christ (Heb. 10: 5). When Jesus crucified the sin nature on the cross, He also crucified the law that imputed sin unto man. Therefore, where there is no law, there is no transgression/sin (Rom. 4:15). God does not recognize sin without a law telling a man they sin. This only happened when man was justified by the law (Rom. 3:19, 20).

In Jesus' death and resurrection He represented and became the scapegoat for every man in their fleshly body (Rom. 6:10, 11). Once Jesus died and rose taking the victory over sin, God imputed His righteous obedience unto every believer for Righteousness. God does not see believers as sinners neither can they sin. This is all by faith. God calls thing which are not naturally seen as if they were (Rom. 4:17).

This Righteousness imputed unto all believers is in the body of Jesus Christ where there is no sin (1Jo. 3:5, 9). The body of Christ is pure and without sin. If a person says they are in Christ and sin, they are not in the body of Christ according to their faith. The only way a believer can say they sin is if they look at themselves in the flesh and become deceived; instead of seeing themselves in the Spirit of God (Rom. 8:9; 8: 5).

Unfruitful works, in God's mind, develops no fruit at all through the wrong actions of a believer. As sin stains the heart of man, unfruitful works has no stain; unfruitful works are undefiled whereas sin defiles. God’s Grace presents non-imputation of sin unto a believer (Rom. 4:8; 2Cor. 5:19). God has imputed all man’s sins unto Jesus Christ. Though a believer does wrong works, God doesn’t see it as sin. Sin separates man from God. Unfruitful works has Grace attached to it and God only sees what Jesus has done for man through His Grace.

Every sin a man could or would commit in this world was placed upon Jesus Christ. This is the same with the punishment for sin. God imputed the punishment for sin that every man could or would commit; past, present and future unto Jesus Christ.

Man accepts and believes the punishment for sin has been taken away by faith, but they don’t believe the cause of the punishment has been taken away by faith. They were both address at the same event. The difference is, the punishment was fulfilled first, and the cause of the penalty was fulfilled second. The cause was more involved because Jesus had to endure the punishment and mental affliction of sin, then die and bring captivity captive and be obedient rising from the dead the third day. This was done for sin, not for the penalty.

 

[regibassman57]

@JesusIs4Me,
Post #133 should read:
This confirms 1Corinthians 15:1, 2 and Galatians 3: 1-3. Instead of Galatians 5:1-3.

 

[Dave M]

As far as sin goes; a believer or an unbeliever that does not believe Jesus took away their sins agree. The only way we as believers can live this life in Christ is to believe what God tells us. If Jesus said He took away our sins, and you say He did not take away our sins; it appear you are rejecting what Jesus said He did. I'm not rejecting anything He did. Why would you try to get me to believe Jesus did not take away our sin?

you making to many assumptions dear freind
@regibassman57
; "it appear you are rejecting what Jesus said "

OOOO how it saddens me to here a brother in Christ to ever claim something like this about my dear beloved savior, oooo how I weep for you to understand. I wish not argue with you but will help you try to understand since I would never reject what Jesus said and know that we see things differently is actually part of spiritual growth, so if you could bring yourself to understand people see things differently then you oooooo how it saddens me to see you use such strong language against a brother in Christ, for me I know I do not know everything or will not agree with everyone, how could anyone who is supposed to be humble loving and caring make such a strong statement against another believer. I bless you in the name of Jesus for us both to have greater understanding in scripture and for us both to have spiritual eyes and not use our prideful flesh to respond.

I would never think you would reject what the bible says. I think we see things differently, I see Jesus as covering for our sins forgiving our sins but a sin is a sin there has to be sacrifice for sin, Jesus was the one time sacrifice for all sins but a sin is still a sin, and christian who still sin will loose there rewards and if they live in sin they are probably not even saved in the first place, Reggi it seems you believe basically the same thing with different language you say you are not perfect and still do wrong doings that is sin if you want to call it wrong doings that is fine with me I do not agree with you not calling it what it is and that is sin but the point is the same we are not perfect

Sin cause death so in the flesh we still have sin since our flesh dies, our spirit has been made clean and will live forever. If our flesh was not sinful it would not die. Like when we get are glorified bodies

Please as I have said before I would never Reject what Jesus says he is my savior and master, I could say the same thing about you !! but I know we just dont see eye to eye on some things I humble myself to know that is ok, can you do the same in a respectful way?? can you bring your point of view up and be ok with people disagreeing with it, or do you always have to say something like well if you dont agree with me you are rejecting what the bible say??

 

[Dave M]

I am not the one who inspired John to speak the prophesy, "behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world." If you don't believe this, your agrument is not with me. You are agruing with me about something Jesus said He would do; I'm just confirming what He said. You actually are rejecting me as a witness to what Jesus did.

you take this out of context and make false accusations of anyone who does not agree with you. First off there is not forgiveness for sin if we do not repent, and if we live in sin we will die and go to hell you make it sound like there is no longer sin in the world because of just one verse int he bible taken out of context

With out true repentance you will be held accountable for all your sins


Acts 3:19
Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out,

Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.




James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1 John 1:8-10
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Mark 7:20-23
And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
1 John 3:4
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dave M,
I'm writing a reply to your #136 post, but I wanted to adress your #137 post first.

You said I took Acts 3:19 and 2:38 out of context. The repentance that's being spoken of here is repent having a change of mind and come to Jesus that He may blot your sins out. These scriptures are telling you to do what 1John 1:9 and Rom. 10:9, 10 is saying do.
Where does scripture teach that God will judged a believer for their sins?

 

[bibleguy]

@bibleguy,

I don’t know why you continue to act as if you’ve fulfilled my request. You have not sent me any scripture to prove your point as I've requested. I said I would change my view if you could prove your point with the scriptures I requested.

I’ve responded to you, per your request, and I've addressed your question and has given you the answer in scripture. You are very knowledgeable about God’s word so I’ve done what Solomon did and put the answer in scripture. God said His word is a mystery and the answer is in the scriptures I sent.

We have already agreed that Jesus paid the price for sin and we know we could not died for sins or for the penalty.

I have never disagreed or ignored that believers should keep God’s commandments of Love. If Love is of the Torah, so be it, I do not reject commandments of love.

Jesus Christ has already justified all believers. As I’ve said, a believer that does not keep God’s Love, will be gathered out of the Kingdom of God and cast into the lake of fire.
You say the full Torah will be restored; Ceremonial and Sacrificial. You’ve already said Jews and believers are not keeping these laws. You yourself are not keeping them. You know what that sounds like, but you’re trying to tell others what they should do.

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

When the complete law of Torah is restored, it will not be restored for Gentile believers. It will be restored for Israel as a nation that has not believed what Jesus has done for them and has rejected Him. They as a nation are blinded. However, in time they shall see (Rom. 11).

I believe faith in God’s word becoming flesh and believing every word he presents to us in obedience is what God's will is (Heb. 5:9; Joh. 6:28, 29; 12:49; Mar. 11:22).

You’ve said: Now, I've brought forth these (and many other) considerations before regibassman57 before.... I still await his proper response to them.

What is a proper response? I’ve addressed all you’ve presented to me in how I understand it. You have not addressed anything I’ve requested from you. The only thing you harp on is James 4:17. That’s been addressed in many different ways; then I addressed again above. You just do not understand. Let’s turn this around. I’M STILL WAITING ON YOUR RESPONSE TO MY SIMPLE REQUEST!

I think you said in a post, I'm asking for something impossible or unreasonable.

I'm only asking you to refute what scripture teaches Jesus did regarding sin. You have all the information you need.

Hi again! Just found this message just now....ok....now I know that I can NOT trust the notifications! Maybe I have something wrong in the settings or something....

Ok, you wrote: "You have not sent me any scripture to prove your point as I've requested. I said I would change my view if you could prove your point with the scriptures I requested."

My response: You're joking, right? I've REPEATEDLY shown you that your view CONTRADICTS Jas. 4:17. So, we ALREADY KNOW that your view is unbiblical (before even bothering to investigate the details of the Scripture you cite in support of your view).

Thus, I ask again: IS JAMES 4:17 TRUE OR FALSE?

You wrote: "You know what that sounds like, but you’re trying to tell others what they should do."

My response: Please clarify....I truly do not know what "that sounds like" in your mind. And, I'm simply telling others to obey ALL Scripture as we should (2 Ti. 3:16), thus TORAH applies to you too!

You wrote: "When the complete law of Torah is restored, it will not be restored for Gentile believers. It will be restored for Israel as a nation that has not believed what Jesus has done for them and has rejected Him."

My response: You just made that up! Please stop making things up to protect your unbiblical viewpoint.

Gentiles have ALWAYS been invited to be included in Torah-obedient Israel (Dt. 29; Dt. 31; Is. 56), and Jesus desires that this CONTINUE (Mk. 11:17; Mt. 28:19-20; Lk. 22:20).

GENTILE DISCIPLES OF JESUS ARE ISRAELITES! Here is the proof:

1. Gentile disciples of Jesus participate in the New Covenant.
2. The New Covenant is ONLY between YHVH and ISRAEL (Jer. 31:31-33; Heb. 8:8-10).
3. Gentile disciples of Jesus are ISRAELITES (from 1 and 2).

Thus, you are flat wrong when you make a DISTINCTION between "ingrafted Gentile believers" and "Israel".

Paul cites the prophecy of Hosea to ISRAEL (Rom. 9:25-26) as referring to Gentiles! Thus, GENTILE BELIEVERS ARE ISRAELITES!

Thus, you continue to wrongly distinguish "gentiles" from "Israelites".

ALL the promises in the covenants pertain even to GENTILES who believe (Eph. 2:12-13).

Thus, the promise (to ISRAEL) of inheritance in the LAND also pertains to GENTILES (Gal. 3:29).

And our return to the land will occur in conjunction with 100% Torah-obedience (Dt. 30:1-8).

Thus, GENTILES will be included as fellow heirs (Eph. 3:6), sharing in all the same promises which pertain to the rest of Israel.

CONCLUSION:

You still don't know who you are!

YOU ARE AN ISRAELITE!

The promises to all Israel pertain to YOU!

You don't even know that all Torah is given to YOU (Mal. 4:4) to OBEY.

Why don't you know this? Because you don't even know that you are included as a fellow ISRAELITE, and as a joint heir of the many promises given to Israel, and as a fellow participant in the COVENANTS (plural!, Eph. 2:12) between God and ISRAEL.

The NEW COVENANT, and DAVIDIC COVENANT, and ABRAHAMIC COVENANT....these ALL pertain to YOU, and TORAH is inextricably linked to them ALL.

You wrote: " I’ve addressed all you’ve presented to me in how I understand it."

My response: But "how [you] understand it" flatly contradicts James 4:17. Thus, your view is unbiblical.

Unless my notifications have persistently failed me....I see no place where you have explained to us why you reject James 4:17.

Instead, I've merely seen you cite other passages in a way which leads you to continually contradict James 4:17.

Thus, again I ask: Is James 4:17 TRUE or FALSE?

If TRUE, then why do you not explain the problem with this reasoning?

1. Regibassman57 sometimes knows what is right, yet he does wrong (regibassman57 has confessed this).
2. Knowing what is right to do, and not doing it, is sin (Jas. 4:17).
3. Regibassman57 sometimes sins (from 1 and 2).

Do you see the problem?

You have interpreted other passages (wrongly) in such a way that you deceive yourself into thinking that you do not ever sin, even though this reasoning PROVES that you sometimes still sin (given your confession)!

Thus, you are using bogus theology to CONTRADICT James 4:17.

That's NOT acceptable.

That's UNBIBLICAL.

Now, if you concede that you are an unbiblical theologian....then fine. We have exposed you for what you are.

But if you claim that James 4:17 is TRUE, then YOU are the one with the problem (not me!)

YOU are the one who has contradicted James 4:17 (not me!)

So YOU are the one who is obligated to resolve this contradiction (not me!)

You wrote: "I'm only asking you to refute what scripture teaches Jesus did regarding sin. "

My response: WRONG. Jesus never told us to contradict James 4:17!

You want me to agree with your (false) claim that your interpretation of particular Scriptural passages justifies the claim that we can IGNORE and CONTRADICT James 4:17.

I will never do that.

I will NEVER oppose or contradict Scripture.

Why would you ask me to do that?

Ok.....hope to hear from you!

thank you......

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,
We are not going to agree. We are from two completely different mindsets scripturally. I've address your request concerning James 4:17, and you have not address mine.

Give me scriptures that prove your point. Ive asked you to give me scriptures that teach Jesus took away the punishment but did not take away our sins. You refuse to do this.

Therefore, I choose not to continue with you in foolishness. like we're children going back and forth. If you choose to fulfill my request and send me scriptures as i've asked I will repond, but if not, I will not continue this with you.