Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[bibleguy]

@Dave M,
Good Question, Sin happens when a person misses the mark. This happen when a person is "justified by the law" and told to keep the law perfectly but breaks it (1John 3:4; Rom. 3:19,20; 7:7).

Dave you or I cannot miss the mark because there is no mark for us to miss; we are under/justified by Grace (Rom. 5:20; 2Cor. 5:19); nonimputation of sin applies. If God was imputing sin unto us, "we would" miss the mark and sin because we would be told to keep the law 100%.

In Christ as long as we develop in the love of God through His commandments (Joh. 15:10), and bring forth His character; 30%, 60% or 100%, we are obedient children and are not considered unfruitful (Mat. 13:23). Anything less than 30% is unfruitful. The unfruitful believer in Christ who does not bring forth at least 30%, will be gathered out of the body of Christ (Kindom of God), judged and condemned to the fire (Mat.13:41; 1Cor.4:5).

So, the question was, do I sin; NO! Do I commit wrong acts, YES! Is God imputing sin unto me for my wrong acts? NO! (Rom. 4:8). Did God impute sin to our Father Abraham for his wrong acts? NO! (Rom. 4:1-8). Was sin in the world in the time of Abraham? YES! (Rom. 5:13). Did Jesus take away the "sin" (singular) of the world, YES (Joh 1:29).

Hi! I need to jump in, here, because I think I found a contradiction in your viewpoint.

You wrote: "So, the question was, do I sin; NO! Do I commit wrong acts, YES!"

And, here's the proof I offer to refute your comment:

1. regibassman57 knows that he sometimes does what is wrong (i.e., not good or right). [from quote above]
2. Knowing what is right to do (and not doing it) is sin (Jas. 4:17).
3. regibassman57 sometimes sins (from 1 and 2).

There it is buddy! I think I nailed you again (in the love of Christ, of course!) Please test these three propositions. How can you escape them? It's another very tight argument, it seems.

You can NOT deny #1 or #2. And, #3 LOGICALLY NECESSARILY follows from #1 and #2 (thus, you can NOT rationally deny #3 either, given the truth of #1 and [HASH=610]#2)[/HASH].

So I don't see any way for you to rationally escape this one.

Agreed?

 

[Ivar]

@regibassman57

I thought about it further and I see your foundation is a work less or no work mentality from sin. That may or may not be a bad thing depending on where you are in your personal walk. However if God permits you will have to move on from the foundation of repentance from dead works and the milk of Paul. The meat is for those that are able to discern both Good and Evil. As of right now you seem to be on the God loves everybody level which isn't necessarily a bad thing. At some point you need to add to your faith virtue and to your virtue knowledge which is in the law of Moses and Oracles of God. Both the words of Christ and Moses are the way and the truth back to the Father in the grand scheme of things.

 

[bibleguy]

Hi! I need to jump in, here, because I think I found a contradiction in your viewpoint.

You wrote: "So, the question was, do I sin; NO! Do I commit wrong acts, YES!"

And, here's the proof I offer to refute your comment:

1. regibassman57 knows that he sometimes does what is wrong (i.e., not good or right). [from quote above]
2. Knowing what is right to do (and not doing it) is sin (Jas. 4:17).
3. regibassman57 sometimes sins (from 1 and 2).

There it is buddy! I think I nailed you again (in the love of Christ, of course!) Please test these three propositions. How can you escape them? It's another very tight argument, it seems.

You can NOT deny #1 or #2. And, #3 LOGICALLY NECESSARILY follows from #1 and #2 (thus, you can NOT rationally deny #3 either, given the truth of #1 and #2).

So I don't see any way for you to rationally escape this one.

Agreed?

 

[Dave M]

So, the question was, do I sin; NO! Do I commit wrong acts, YES!

WOW this will take some time to even comprehend could not disagree with you more with all due respect

1 John 1:8-10
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

and now for the word of God to ferute you my freind

1 John 5:17
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

you admitted you do wrong, the word of God here tells us all wrong doing is sin please do not try to complicate this is very simple

 

[Dave M]

@regibassman57


“Sin” is any thought, word, or action that is contrary to the character or law of God. We all sin (Romans 3:23), and even what we consider good deeds are often tainted by selfish motives or pride (Isaiah 64:6). Left to ourselves, it is impossible to please God or to be completely free from sin (Romans 3:10; Ecclesiastes 7:10).

When we come to Christ by faith and trust Him to forgive and cleanse us of all our sin, we are in that moment born again (John 3:3). That new birth of the spirit results in a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). God gives the repentant sinner a new heart that is now turned toward obeying and pleasing Him rather than self (2 Corinthians 5:9; Romans 8:5–6). Whereas we were formerly slaves to sin, we are now “slaves to righteousness” (Romans 6:16). Sin’s control has been broken by the power of Jesus (Romans 6:6; Titus 2:14).

However, we still live in the flesh, and the flesh is prone to want what it wants. In Romans 7:21–23, Paul admits the battle between flesh and spirit in his own life: “So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.” Each battle with temptation is won or lost based upon how fully we are surrendered to the control of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:16–17).

Do Christians sin? Yes. Do they willfully continue in sin? No. Scripture indicates that, while we will always “fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), we have the hope that the power of God is at work in us to “make us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image” (2 Corinthians 3:18, NLT).

Do Christians sin?

 

[KingJ]

Chad, you are ignoring all of the many dire warnings given to the churches in the NT.
Are they bluffs, exaggerations, lies even?
Possibly, they are one of God's methods of getting BACs to walk on His narrow path!

Please try understand that you are making a mockery of Christianity with your opening post. Even the biggest fool on the planet can grasp a person who says he does not sin is a liar 1 John 1:8. Clearly there is more to Christianity.

God judges our hearts. Not the perfection of our flesh. A heart after God's will fight the good fight. Not be 100% perfect as only God is.

You are basically saying if we are not as perfect as God we are not a true BAC....

Only God is good / perfect Mark 10:18.

 

[regibassman57]

@Ivar,
The context of Ephesians 2: is about sin.
Israel offered sacrifieces as their work for "sins," but their work was not sufficient to take away sins (Heb. 10:1-4,11).
Only Jesus could do the "work" as a sacrifice to take away sins (Acts 13:39; Rom. 8:3).

 

[Ivar]

@Ivar,
The context of Ephesians 2: is about sin.
Israel offered sacrifieces as their work for "sins," but their work was not sufficient to take away sins (Heb. 10:1-4,11).
Only Jesus could do the "work" as a sacrifice to take away sins (Acts 13:39; Rom. 8:3).

@regibassman57
The wages of sin that the law requireth is but a shadow of good things to come which is a gift of God.
No one is disagreeing that only a Passover lamb without blemished prepared by God can take away sins.
The schoolmaster teacheth such things.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Remember when you brought up the Acts Chapter 15 dispute; And what Peter essentially said?

19.Trouble not those that have a Diploma/ Certificate/Christ but not the Credentials/Schoolmaster; 20. Just make sure they got paper and pencil / Holy Spirit can dwell in them.; 21. Because the course is being taught in the College weekly.


Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Act 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

------------------------------------------------

Long story short if you understand Acts Chapter 15 then you will have more temperance concerning the law and not come off as castrating it.

Do not forget concerning Peter:

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Do not forget what Peter said concerning the works of Paul:

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

"this is why the adversary emphasizes the works of Paul because of that fact. they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Notice it is thru the works of Paul that the adversary causes carnal enmity in man between Moses and Christ.; when both there words came from The Father.
--------------------------------------------

Do not forget what Paul said

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Do not forget how Paul taught

1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
-----------------------------------------------------------

There is a good reason why these verses were said especially verses 13 & 14

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

" in regards to this sin contention ; there is a perspective from God and their is a perspective from men. and they both seem to agree in one when contextualized accordingly."

 

[Ivar]

" in regards to this sin contention ; there is a perspective from God and their is a perspective from men. and they both seem to agree in one when contextualized accordingly."

without me getting too deep into it; God willing I want to but don't have the time

Man cannot visually say or count how many hairs are on our own Head but; God can.
Man cannot say they themselves are blameless or sinless before God but; God can
Lastly when it comes to the volume of the book Love is Obedience and not lusting while Lust is Disobedience and Sin.
Because of 1 Corinthians 10:13

we know that it is possible to overcome temptation and therefore avoid lust and therefore avoid sin. "in humility"
And it all goes back to why Eve is specifically counted with the transgression because Adam did not lust therefore Adam did not sin "in that context or in the grand scheme of things"

 

[BCsenior]

These 2 verses have been brought to my attention recently …

“Repent of your wickedness and pray to the Lord.
Perhaps he will forgive your evil thoughts (i.e. sins).” (Acts 8:22, NLT)

“Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have
received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice
that will cover these sins” (Hebrews 10:26, NLT)

 

[Ivar]

adding

2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

 

[regibassman57]

Hello BCSenior,
I personally have no problem with Acts 8:22. All believers must repent from works that are contrary to righteousness; if not they will be unfruitful. Just because they call it sin, it doesn’t take away the principle of what sin is.

Sin is missing the mark. I’ve said this in another post. A believer cannot miss the mark. The only way a person can miss the mark is if they are justified to hit a certain target. If they miss the target, they sin. Israel was commanded to keep the first covenant of Moses perfectly; 100%. If they didn’t, they missed the mark.

New Covenant believers are not required to keep the law 100% because we are not justified by the law. Believers are justified by Jesus Christ who is our Grace. Grace is not imputing sin. Believers have been given a scale to meet; 30%, 60% or 100% (Mat. 13:23) Believers must bring forth fruit; the character of Christ (Eph.4:22-24). If they choose not to, they are considered in unbelief and will be judge and gathered out of the Kingdom of God (Mat. 13:41).

There are no more sacrifices for sins period. Jesus offered one sacrifice for sins forever and gave believers remission of sins (Heb. 10:12; Mat. 26:28; Luk 1:77)

G859 (remission)
aphesis
From G863; freedom; (figuratively) pardon: - deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission.

Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Why is there no more offering for sin? Answer: We have recieved remission, freedom, pardon, deliverance,forgiveness and liberty from sin; as it says.

 

[BCsenior]

Chad, you are ignoring all of the many dire warnings given to the churches in the NT.
Are they bluffs, exaggerations, lies even?
Possibly, they are one of God's methods of getting BACs to walk on His narrow path!

Chad, I neglected to say that the sins of the BAC
are supposed to be handled through REPENTANCE.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dave, @BCSenior,@Ivar

Remember I said, sin is missing the mark, and any sin a man committed whether intentional or unintentional was sin? I would like to add to that and clarify my point further.

I said Israel was held to the standard of 100% perfection or it was sin; anything less than 100% they were accountable.

We as believers have a sliding scale of Righteousness according to our works; which is: 30%, 60% or 100% (Mat. 13:23); anything less than 30%, at this time, Grace covers; meaning there is no condemnation period. Sin is condemnation because sin has been condemned. Sin and Condemnation “equally’ has been condemned; so you cannot have one without the other (Rom.8:3). If there is no condemnation at this time, there is no sin at this time. God has presented to us what His “reasonable service” for us is. It is no longer 100% or you sin. God teaches us what His will is in Romans 12:1,2.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that “you may prove” what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

We as believer must prove to God that we have “faith” and “we” can walk in either His, good 60% acceptable 30% and perfect will 100%. Can we walk in God’s perfect will? Obviously Yes! God put it before us as an option; and He will not tell us to do something that is impossible.

Mar 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If you can believe, all things are possible to him that believe.

We are not believing for the things of the world, we are believing for the things Christ has done, for us, in our bodies and spirit.

 

[regibassman57]

@Chad

Hello chad, I read the snippet that you attached to your post.

I believe this person said some things that are not according to scripture. He said a lot, so I’ll just deal with a couple of things.

He said, “This is how we can make sense of our full justification in Christ and Scripture’s teaching that we need “ongoing forgiveness.” (I know he’s talking about forgiveness from sins)

Scripture says:
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Redemption and forgiveness go hand in hand; we cannot have one without the other. Redemption is an Everlasting redemption; so if we’ve been redeemed forever, we’ve been forgiven forever.

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood Jesus entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The priest entered daily for sins;

Heb 10:11 And every priest stands daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which “can never take away sins”:

Heb 10:12 But this man (Jesus), after he had offered “one sacrifice for sins “forever,” sat down on the right hand of God;

The question would be what is this Eternal redemption redeeming and forgiving believers eternally from? I know the scripture answered the question.

Also, The priest could not take away sin; but Jesus did take away sin according to these scriptures. What is the difference? Why should we, as believer, ask forgiveness for something that has been taken away.

 

[Ivar]

@regibassman57

I am not sure if anyone said it more clearer than Peter

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

This seems one of those conclusion of the whole matter verses

such as;

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
-------------------------------------------

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

 

[regibassman57]

@Ivar,

I agree, The Lord knows how to deliver the Godly out of temptations. God is teaching us to resist the devil and he will flee from us (Jam. 4:7). How long or when will the devil flee from us, who knows, but by faith if we exercise Godliness (1Ti. 4:7, 8) we can only get stronger in Christ (1Cor. 4:5). But I know we have been promised rest in our souls (Mat. 11:28, 29).

 

[BCsenior]

Have you heard that most of the church today is fast ASLEEP,
which means they're NOT doing what they're supposed to be doing.
That would be things like: walking in the Spirit, dying to self, repenting of sin, etc.
That means they will NOT be raptured, but WILL go through the great tribulation,
which is almost upon us!

 

[Ivar]

Have you heard that most of the church today is fast ASLEEP,
which means they're NOT doing what they're supposed to be doing.
That would be things like: walking in the Spirit, dying to self, repenting of sin, etc.
That means they will NOT be raptured, but WILL go through the great tribulation,
which is almost upon us!

@BCsenior
yes and I don't exclude myself.
I suspect the spirit of the son of perdition was on Constantine when he assembled the council back in 325 AD
"Think Chancellor Palpatine if you have watched such things as Star Wars"
Of course I'm sure there are a few notable others

However
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

&
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Eze 18:25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
Eze 18:28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
Eze 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some of Pauline Interpretation will say I am mixing new wine in old skins, etc

However

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

 

[regibassman57]

@BCsenior,
Not that you need validation, but I agree with you.
As you konw I use the term "unfruitful works" as oppose to the term "sin."
Regardless of the terms we must "repent" from works that do not develop in the character of Christ.

Mat 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Mat 13:19 When any one hears the word of the kingdom, and understands it not, then comes the wicked one, and catchs away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and anon with joy receives it;
Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but endures for a while: for when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that hears the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he become "unfruitful."
Mat 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that hears the word, and understands it; which also bears fruit, and brings forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Each heart in this parable received the word of God except the heart by the wayside. This means 3 out of the 4 individual hearts "recieved the word" and were saved. Only one person out of the three heard the word and developed in the character of Christ; bringing forth 30% fruit; sixty% or 100%. Which tells us, we can bring forth 100% fruit if we believe Christ's word (Mar. 9:23).

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to "them that believe on his name":

If a believer develops in the character of Christ, they will be raptured, if not this next verse applies:

Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.