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Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

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Member
At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness,
and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call
and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble;
for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting
kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)

“OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

“having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
“FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

“forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
“PAST sins” is also in the HCSB

Now for some confirming NT passages …

Paul wrote this to the Corinthian church concerning his words of rebuke
in 1 Corinthians that he had sent to them concerning some particular sin(s).
They really needed to be sorrowful and repent.

“… the pain (from his rebuke) caused you to repent and change your ways.
It was the kind of sorrow God wants His people to have, so you were not
harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience
leads us away from sin and results in salvation. … worldly sorrow, which lacks
repentance, results in spiritual (eternal) death.” (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)


“Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence.
And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins.
You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality,
and eagerness for lustful pleasure.” (2 Corinthians 12:21, NLT)


Peter is warning believers about God’s destruction of all ungodly and unholy people:
“Then he used the water to destroy the ancient (ungodly) world … the day of judgment,
when ungodly people will be destroyed. … He is being patient for your sake. He does not
want anyone to be destroyed (perish spiritually), but (he) wants everyone to repent.
… what holy and godly lives you should live … (you) make every effort to be found living
peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight. … I am warning you ahead of time
… Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors …” (2 Peter 3:6-17, NLT)


John gives the condition for the Lord to forgive believers’ present sins:
“But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9, NLT)
This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all
unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them
… We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance
… we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.
(The Applied New Testament Commentary; Dr. Thomas Hale)

2 verses later, John reminds believers to ask Jesus to plead our case before the Father:
“My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before
the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.” (1 John 2:1, NLT)

Believers are responsible for repenting of their sins after they are born-again!
They have been given the Holy Spirit, a totally new nature, and God’s word.
So, they have been enabled to be victorious overcomers over sin, the world,
and the devil. They have no excuse for failing to do this.
 
Member
@BCsenior once your heart is truly turned to God or once you sincerely repent i expect you can become part of Christ flock again.
As long as Holy Spirit is not blasphemed intentionally; Not sure about unintentionally because I would not expect that to be possible.
 
Member
At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness,
and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call
and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble;
for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting
kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)

“OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

“having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
“FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

“forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
“PAST sins” is also in the HCSB

Now for some confirming NT passages …

Paul wrote this to the Corinthian church concerning his words of rebuke
in 1 Corinthians that he had sent to them concerning some particular sin(s).
They really needed to be sorrowful and repent.


“… the pain (from his rebuke) caused you to repent and change your ways.
It was the kind of sorrow God wants His people to have, so you were not
harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience
leads us away from sin and results in salvation. … worldly sorrow, which lacks
repentance, results in spiritual (eternal) death.” (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)


“Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence.
And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins.
You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality,
and eagerness for lustful pleasure.” (2 Corinthians 12:21, NLT)


Peter is warning believers about God’s destruction of all ungodly and unholy people:
“Then he used the water to destroy the ancient (ungodly) world … the day of judgment,
when ungodly people will be destroyed. … He is being patient for your sake. He does not
want anyone to be destroyed (perish spiritually), but (he) wants everyone to repent.
… what holy and godly lives you should live … (you) make every effort to be found living
peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight. … I am warning you ahead of time
… Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors …” (2 Peter 3:6-17, NLT)


John gives the condition for the Lord to forgive believers’ present sins:
“But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9, NLT)
This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all
unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them
… We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance
… we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.
(The Applied New Testament Commentary; Dr. Thomas Hale)

2 verses later, John reminds believers to ask Jesus to plead our case before the Father:
“My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before
the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.” (1 John 2:1, NLT)


Believers are responsible for repenting of their sins after they are born-again!
They have been given the Holy Spirit, a totally new nature, and God’s word.
So, they have been enabled to be victorious overcomers over sin, the world,
and the devil. They have no excuse for failing to do this.
Also 1 Jn. 1:7: The blood of Jesus cleanses us (present tense) from sin.

And Lk. 11:4: Forgive us our sins. (This suggests we should continue to pray for forgiveness in accordance with Lk. 11:4, as an ongoing pattern).
 
Administrator
Staff Member
This is false. Jesus paid the price of all sins, not just past sins. There is no such thing as a Christian who doesn't sin daily. Proof? I dare you say you're perfect and sinless.

Here's a snippet from If All My Sins Are Forgiven, Why Must I Continue to Repent?

Both Saint and Sinner

There are at least three biblical truths that must be kept together simultaneously.

First, for those who have repented of sin and trusted in Christ as Lord and Savior, God declares them right before him on the basis of Christ’s righteousness and substitutionary death (Rom. 3:21–26; 5:1; 8:1, 30, 33–34). As a declarative act of God and not a process by which we are infused with righteousness, justification takes place in the believer once for all time (Rom. 5:12–21; Phil. 3:8–9; 2 Cor. 5:19–21).

Although everyone will stand before Christ’s judgment seat and hear the public verdict of whether or not we are in him (2 Cor. 5:10), for believers this end-time verdict has now been brought into the present. We have already crossed from death to life (John 5:24; Rom. 8:1). Justification once received cannot be lost.

Second, God commands us to confess our sins as we sin (1 John 1:9). This command not only applies to our initial justification, but, as the context of 1 John makes clear, confession is ongoing for Christians:

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves if we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar . . . but if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins (1 John 1:8–10).

Third, God not only commands us to confess our sins, but also promises to forgive us in the future and, in a real sense, hinges our forgiveness on whether we forgive others, after we have presumably been justified (Matt. 6:14; 18:15–35; 1 John 1:9; James 5:15).
 
Member
This is false. Jesus paid the price of all sins, not just past sins. There is no such thing as a Christian who doesn't sin daily. Proof? I dare you say you're perfect and sinless.

Here's a snippet from If All My Sins Are Forgiven, Why Must I Continue to Repent?

Both Saint and Sinner

There are at least three biblical truths that must be kept together simultaneously.

First, for those who have repented of sin and trusted in Christ as Lord and Savior, God declares them right before him on the basis of Christ’s righteousness and substitutionary death (Rom. 3:21–26; 5:1; 8:1, 30, 33–34). As a declarative act of God and not a process by which we are infused with righteousness, justification takes place in the believer once for all time (Rom. 5:12–21; Phil. 3:8–9; 2 Cor. 5:19–21).

Although everyone will stand before Christ’s judgment seat and hear the public verdict of whether or not we are in him (2 Cor. 5:10), for believers this end-time verdict has now been brought into the present. We have already crossed from death to life (John 5:24; Rom. 8:1). Justification once received cannot be lost.

Second, God commands us to confess our sins as we sin (1 John 1:9). This command not only applies to our initial justification, but, as the context of 1 John makes clear, confession is ongoing for Christians:

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves if we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar . . . but if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins (1 John 1:8–10).

Third, God not only commands us to confess our sins, but also promises to forgive us in the future and, in a real sense, hinges our forgiveness on whether we forgive others, after we have presumably been justified (Matt. 6:14; 18:15–35; 1 John 1:9; James 5:15).
Lots of great points....thanks!
 
Member
Chad, you are ignoring all of the many dire warnings given to the churches in the NT.
Are they bluffs, exaggerations, lies even?
Possibly, they are one of God's methods of getting BACs to walk on His narrow path!
 
Active
@BCsenior

2Pe 1:9 But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

BCSenior, I would have to disagree; but I understand the scripture you used is truthful. We have been purged from our old sin (Heb. 1:3), but once and for all time (Heb. 9:12). There are no more offerings for sins in any form (Heb.10:18).

Jesus is the Mediator for the New Covenant to purge all sins from the time of Adam unto Himself; forever more (John 1:29; Heb. 9:15). Every person seeking to enter into this Grace Covenant must be purged, cleansed and sanctified of all their sins; past, present and future (Heb. 10:10, 12, 14). Hebrews 10:2 teaches; the worshipers “ONCE” purged (purged from sin) should not have any more consciousness of sin. Jesus washed all believers “from” their sins (Rev. 1:5).

G2512 (purge)
katharismos
From G2511; a washing off, that is, (ceremonially) ablution, (morally) expiation: - cleansing, + purge, purification, (-fying).
 
Active
@All willing to reply:
I am still seeking this knowledge, if someone can help me please do.
Where can I find the scriptures that teach, "the debt of sin has been paid without sin being taken away?"
.
Without this understanding, I believe we are speaking in error when we say, "Jesus took away the penallty of sin, without taking away sin.

This forum encourages us to qualify our beliefs through bible scripture.
 
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Member
@All willing to reply:
I am still seeking this knowledge, if someone can help me please do.
Where can I find the scriptures that teach, "the debt of sin has been paid without sin being taken away?"
.
Without this understanding, I believe we are speaking in error when we say, "Jesus took away the penallty of sin, without taking away sin.

This forum encourages us to qualify our beliefs through bible scripture.
1. Jesus paid the penalty (debt), (Is. 53:11-12).
2. We sometimes still sin (thus requiring ongoing forgiveness, Lk. 11:4, and requiring ongoing purification, 1 Jn. 1:7).
3. Sin has not been taken away (IN THE SENSE that we sometimes still sin). [from 2].
4. The debt of sin has been paid without sin being taken away (from 1, 2, and 3)

Ok....now what we do is test these four propositions.

Test them to see whether the cited Scripture supports them.
Test them to see if they are properly logically related to one another (in accordance with good logical inference rules).

If they pass the test, then they can be incorporated into our theological viewpoint.

blessings...
 
Active
@bibleguy,
You wrote:
1. Jesus paid the penalty (debt), (Is. 53:11-12). (Agreed; there is scriptural references)

2. We sometimes still sin (thus requiring ongoing forgiveness, Lk. 11:4, and requiring ongoing purification, 1 Jn. 1:7). (Disagree; no valid scriptural reference)

3. Sin has not been taken away (IN THE SENSE that we sometimes still sin). [from 2]. (Disagree no valid scriptural reference)

4. The debt of sin has been paid without sin being taken away (from 1, 2, and 3) (Disagree, no valid scriptural reference)

My thoughts:
Jesus paid the penalty for man’s sins because He took upon Himself the sin of the world (singular)(John 1:29). Jesus also took away any future penalties and sins that man may commit . By this, Jesus made an “end” of sins, being made a sinful man, and the substitute/scapegoat for all mankind.

Jesus took sin and the punishment for every sin that was and would be committed in this world. God foreseeing His purpose in judging sin, prophesied this in the book of Daniel 9:24.

Every sin that man would have committed was place upon Jesus Christ to satisfy God (Isa.53:6, 8, 10, 11, 12). Because of this, God through faith, has exempt man from sin and does not see any man to have sinned. God calls those things which are not as though they were (Rom. 4:17). God overlooks man’s actions “as sin” through Faith, knowing that all sins were condemned in His Son Jesus Christ (Rom.8:3; Acts 13:39). The only thing the Law of Moses could not do (as pertaining to sin) was “take it away” (Heb. 10:1-4, 11).
 
Active
@Dave M,
Good Question, Sin happens when a person misses the mark. This happen when a person is "justified by the law" and told to keep the law perfectly but breaks it (1John 3:4; Rom. 3:19,20; 7:7).

Dave you or I cannot miss the mark because there is no mark for us to miss; we are under/justified by Grace (Rom. 5:20; 2Cor. 5:19); nonimputation of sin applies. If God was imputing sin unto us, "we would" miss the mark and sin because we would be told to keep the law 100%.

In Christ as long as we develop in the love of God through His commandments (Joh. 15:10), and bring forth His character; 30%, 60% or 100%, we are obedient children and are not considered unfruitful (Mat. 13:23). Anything less than 30% is unfruitful. The unfruitful believer in Christ who does not bring forth at least 30%, will be gathered out of the body of Christ (Kindom of God), judged and condemned to the fire (Mat.13:41; 1Cor.4:5).

So, the question was, do I sin; NO! Do I commit wrong acts, YES! Is God imputing sin unto me for my wrong acts? NO! (Rom. 4:8). Did God impute sin to our Father Abraham for his wrong acts? NO! (Rom. 4:1-8). Was sin in the world in the time of Abraham? YES! (Rom. 5:13). Did Jesus take away the "sin" (singular) of the world, YES (Joh 1:29).
 
Member
@Chad
@Dave M @bibleguy @Ivar and @everyone else.
Lets start a discussion on 1John 1 to start? I think it would clear up a lot of confusion about sin.
@regibassman57

confusion???

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
 
Member
@regibassman57

Scripturally since all sons of man are born by a woman; it is impossible for us ourselves to say we have no sin

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
However; God himself can make the claim that we are sinless, righteous, or blameless

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

He that is joined unto light is light; we are the company we keep

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Humility justifies us while Pride deceives and condemns us.

Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
 
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Member
@Ivar,
Anyone The Lord is not imputing sin to does not sin in God's eyes.
@regibassman57
Yes. Essentially if one does well they will be accepted, considered blameless, righteous, etc.

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
 
Active
@Ivar,
You said, "if one does well," God will not impute sin unto them. Ivar, you are speaking a work mentality from sin. Ephesians 2:8,9 qualifies "no work" from sin
.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are you saved (from sin) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 "Not of works", lest any man should boast.
 
Member
@Ivar,
You said, "if one does well," God will not impute sin unto them. Ivar, you are speaking a work mentality from sin. Ephesians 2:8,9 qualifies "no work" from sin
.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are you saved (from sin) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 "Not of works", lest any man should boast.
@regibassman57
Was Paul telling them not to work? And are you saying not to work?
Who was Paul talking to in Ephesians? What was the motives and intentions of Paul?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you name one thing as an adult in your life that you do not have to work for?

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

----------------------------------------------

Must the words of Paul always be used to castrate "The Law & The Prophets"
Are you aware that Genesis 4:7 is in the first person of The Lord?

Genesis 4:6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
 
Member
@bibleguy,
You wrote:
1. Jesus paid the penalty (debt), (Is. 53:11-12). (Agreed; there is scriptural references)

2. We sometimes still sin (thus requiring ongoing forgiveness, Lk. 11:4, and requiring ongoing purification, 1 Jn. 1:7). (Disagree; no valid scriptural reference)

3. Sin has not been taken away (IN THE SENSE that we sometimes still sin). [from 2]. (Disagree no valid scriptural reference)

4. The debt of sin has been paid without sin being taken away (from 1, 2, and 3) (Disagree, no valid scriptural reference)

My thoughts:
Jesus paid the penalty for man’s sins because He took upon Himself the sin of the world (singular)(John 1:29). Jesus also took away any future penalties and sins that man may commit . By this, Jesus made an “end” of sins, being made a sinful man, and the substitute/scapegoat for all mankind.

Jesus took sin and the punishment for every sin that was and would be committed in this world. God foreseeing His purpose in judging sin, prophesied this in the book of Daniel 9:24.

Every sin that man would have committed was place upon Jesus Christ to satisfy God (Isa.53:6, 8, 10, 11, 12). Because of this, God through faith, has exempt man from sin and does not see any man to have sinned. God calls those things which are not as though they were (Rom. 4:17). God overlooks man’s actions “as sin” through Faith, knowing that all sins were condemned in His Son Jesus Christ (Rom.8:3; Acts 13:39). The only thing the Law of Moses could not do (as pertaining to sin) was “take it away” (Heb. 10:1-4, 11).
Hi! Yes, the Torah merely covered (atoned) for sin, whereas the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross completely takes away the consequences of being in an unrepentant sinful state. Agreed.

But, you disagreed with #2 (above). And you gave no clear reason for discounting the passages I cited in support of #2.

So are you claiming that no Christian ever sins?

That's a tough pill to swallow.

In fact, 1 Jn. 5:16 pretty clearly refutes the claim that no Christian ever sins.

Here's the proof:

1. John discusses the possibility that his brother could sin (1 Jn. 5:16).
2. James was John's brother (Mt. 4:21).
3. James was a Christian (Jas. 1:1).
4. It's possible that a Christian could sin (from 1, 2, and 3).

So, test these four propositions here! I don't think you can escape them. It's a pretty tight argument.

And if that weren't enough, there's more!

For example, it makes no sense for Christians to continue to ask in prayer for God's forgiveness (Lk. 11:4), if they are already forgiven.

And, it makes no sense to state that the blood of Jesus CONTINUES (present tense, 1 Jn. 1:7) to purify us from all sin, if we are already purified and no longer sin.

And, if you deny that Christians sin in the present tense (as present tense is used in 1 Jn. 1:8), then you are "deceiving yourself and the truth is not in you" (1 Jn. 1:8).

And, it makes no sense for John to remind us to confess our sins and receive forgiveness, if we don't even have anymore sin that requires confession and forgiveness (1 Jn. 1:9).

And, it makes no sense for John to write things to us so that we will not sin (1 Jn. 2:1), if Christians are already immune to the possibility of sinning.

Do you see how your viewpoint is strongly disconfirmed by all these Biblical considerations?

In other words, if your viewpoint were true, then you need to explain how to reconcile it with 1 Jn. 5:16 (taken with Mt. 4:21; Jas. 1:1), Lk. 11:4; 1 Jn. 1:7, 1 Jn. 1:8; 1 Jn. 1:9; 1 Jn. 2:1.

Otherwise, you've merely set forth a claim which is disconfirmed by the statements and implications entailed by 1 Jn. 5:16 (taken with Mt. 4:21; Jas. 1:1), Lk. 11:4; 1 Jn. 1:7, 1 Jn. 1:8; 1 Jn. 1:9; 1 Jn. 2:1.

And, if your position is disconfirmed by 1 Jn. 5:16 (taken with Mt. 4:21; Jas. 1:1), Lk. 11:4; 1 Jn. 1:7, 1 Jn. 1:8; 1 Jn. 1:9; 1 Jn. 2:1, then we should not accept your position.

What do ya think?
 
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