Universalism. They All Can't Be Right or Can They?"

[Torchbearer33]

Welcome to the forum!

Thank you!

I know you wrote a piece that has people scratching thier heads.

That's a nice way of putting it

The Spirit moved in me when i read his introduction.

Glad to hear it!

Welcome to Talk Jesus @Torchbearer33
Enjoy the forum and online Christian fellowship

Thank you

Welcome to Talk Jesus @Torchbearer33
Hope you find fellowship, growth in Christ Jesus and His Word. .
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><

Thanks, Nick

:shades:
All are welcomed, yet not all stay.

As a Moderator Brother, I'm Wary by Nature, tying the threads of their words to see if Christian they are, but will always attempt to share the Love of the Lord even in correction/guidance.

With the Love of Christ Jesus brother.
Moderator
Nick
<><

....Part of the reason I came on here. I have a few beliefs that are pretty 'out there,' and I wanted to see what the general consensus is amongst Christians. So, tell me, what makes a Christian? What does one have to believe and do in order to qualify? And what are the disqualifiers?

 

[Christ4Ever]

....Part of the reason I came on here. I have a few beliefs that are pretty 'out there,' and I wanted to see what the general consensus is amongst Christians. So, tell me, what makes a Christian? What does one have to believe and do in order to qualify? And what are the disqualifiers?

I've noticed the out there.....which considering that this is a Christian Forum you might not be long for
Still, while you're here....To answer your question.

The Gospel
You can encapsulate it thus:

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4

Still it's not just a belief, but a way of life. However, truth is required of it. For people believe in many things, and personages throughout history. Falsehoods abound.

You're welcome to read my testimony on my bio. on how I was drawn to the Lord. I don't count it special in a Road to Damascus way. Still it is mine to share.

As a Christian, I've found out that a variety of doctrines abound, but in truth the one telling item that makes Christianity different. Jesus the Christ died & rose again. I know of only one whose resting place is empty (resurrection) and is not dead but Lives and that is Jesus Christ! Witnessed to as well. All have a choice to accept or deny the Gospel's truth.

However, attempting to reconcile an amalgamation of differing religions into a singular belief satisfactory to only self. May assuage your consciousness, but lacks a truth that does not require man's belief to stand.

So, the decision is yours. Cobble together Jesus with the other Holy Men of other religions as you have done. Disregarding Jesus' own words. Which make him not an enlightened man, only a crazy one. Or believe Him to be who He said He is. Finding through the Gospel, Life, that Jesus who died for your sins, buried and rose. Was able to give what you could not. So, that you might truly live.

On whom will you believe this day Torchbearer33?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><

 

[Dave M]

There are only two types of religions in the world.

1. You work you way to heaven, by doing things. Your good deeds out number you bad deeds type of thing

2. Christianity Jesus did all the work for us and we are saved because we believe in him the God almighty. We can never work our way to heaven, because we will never be good enough. So

 

[Torchbearer33]

I've noticed the out there.....which considering that this is a Christian Forum you might not be long for
Still, while you're here....To answer your question.

The Gospel
You can encapsulate it thus:

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4
<><

I am a Christian, then.

Thanks for sharing your testimony. Jesus comes to those who need him most. We are blessed to have been in his presence.

There are only two types of religions in the world.

1. You work you way to heaven, by doing things. Your good deeds out number you bad deeds type of thing

2. Christianity Jesus did all the work for us and we are saved because we believe in him the God almighty. We can never work our way to heaven, because we will never be good enough. So

There is enough similarity between these two for them to be one religion. After all, there is one God, and all religion stems from Him, so surely, then, there is only one religion, like a river from which many tributaries spring.

 

[Christ4Ever]

There is enough similarity between these two for them to be one religion. After all, there is one God, and all religion stems from Him, so surely, then, there is only one religion, like a river from which many tributaries spring.

This is Universalism and a false statement (bolded) as seen by Born Again Christians.

I am a Christian, then.

You may feel that stating the above is true, but I'm sure that depending on the question posed to you, that you'd just as easily state that you are a Hindu, Muslim, etc. as well. For the Source is the same. So you stating the above is not seen as a true statement when viewed by one who believes in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and God Incarnate. For to us there is only one way to the Father and that is Jesus Christ.

Sadly, this is the reason I stated that you might not be long for this site. Expounding upon why "All Religions" are acceptable for they all originate from a singular source (Universalism) will get you banned.

Please do not attempt to do so.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
<><

 

[Torchbearer33]

This is Universalism and a false statement (bolded) as seen by Born Again Christians.

Yes, the statement that 'all religion(s) stem from God, and as God is one, so too is religion," is indeed an example of universalism: "Extending over, including, proceeding from, all or the whole (of something specified or implicit); without exception..." Just because it's a universalist philosophy, though, doesn't necessarily make it false, as you seem to imply. After all, 'God' Himself is universalist in nature, or do you disagree?

You may feel that stating the above is true, but I'm sure that depending on the question posed to you, that you'd just as easily state that you are a Hindu, Muslim, etc. as well.

...Oh, no, I certainly wouldn't claim to be a Hindu, Muslim, or any other religion that I don't practice...

So you stating the above is not seen as a true statement when viewed by one who believes in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and God Incarnate.

I beg your pardon, I mustn't have expressed myself clearly. For the record, I believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, 2nd in a Holy Trinity, and God incarnate. I've been baptized. I go to Church on Sundays. Jesus Christ is my Lord and saviour; there is no other. I worship him; I pray to him; I owe my life, soul, and salvation all to him. Without him, I am nothing. I have sworn to God that my life shall bear witness that I have been with Christ. I'm inclined to think that the only good and lasting things that shall come from my life will be those things that I've done in His honor.

Expounding upon why "All Religions" are acceptable for they all originate from a singular source (Universalism) will get you banned.

Please do not attempt to do so.

Having read the terms and rules of the forum, I wasn't aware of anything that prevented users from doing this:

"...You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws. You are entirely responsible for the content of, and any harm resulting from, that Content or your conduct..."

...Could you show me where it's written that proposing the universalist idea that all religions stem from the One God is not allowed on this forum?

Notwithstanding this, I beg the question, "If not from God, then where did other religions besides Christianity come from?" Take Judaism, for example. Seeing as though Jesus used the revelations of Moses and other Jewish prophets to validate his credibility, how could one logically claim that Christianity comes from God, and Jesus doesn't?

In good faith.....
TB

 

[B-A-C]

Notwithstanding this, I beg the question, "If not from God, then where did other religions besides Christianity come from?"

Satan. 1 Tim 5:15;

Take Judaism, for example. Seeing as though Jesus used the revelations of Moses and other Jewish prophets to validate his credibility, how could one logically claim that Christianity comes from God, and Jesus doesn't?

Judaism isn't really Christianity, but even most followers of Judaism are looking for a Messiah, (a Christ). The main difference between us and them is we believe He already came.

The phrase "other Gods" appears over 60 times in the Bible. Usually in a negative context. For Example Exod 20:3; Exod 20:23; Deut 5:7; Deut 6:14; Deut 11:16; etc....

The Bible also makes it clear the consequences of following others who want to be worshiped. ( Rev 19:20; )

 

[B-A-C]

Jesus says most people will go to hell.

Matt 7:13; “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matt 7:14; For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Even some people who "think" they are saved will go to hell.

Matt 7:21; “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
Matt 7:23; And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Luke 13:25; Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’
Luke 13:26; Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’;
Luke 13:27; and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers.’

Rev 20:15; And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[KingJ]

Universalism is not a bad belief. It is certainly understandable / forgivable when one considers our God. He defines Himself as love 1 John 4:8. He is light with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5. He wills that all be saved 1 Tim 2:4.

There are just three issues I have with those who believe this. Well let me rather say I believe they are not grasping three things.

1. God does not make mistakes

God does not remove from His presence someone whom He will later re-unite with. He knows a hearts desire Jer 17:9-11. A reason Purgatory is nonsensical to me.

2. Many are sold out to wickedness

The verdict is that people go to hell because they love the darkness. It is this love of the darkness that causes them to reject Jesus John 3:19. There is a theme throughout the bible of God only bringing His wrath upon those whose evil was full measure. Fully known.

3. True free will

God does not, not give true free will. He is a good God. He honors the free will of an intelligent creation. He cannot but honor it being a God with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5. He loves the devil but the devil hates Him. He allows all the wicked time, space and a home to exercise their rejection of Him

One verse alone debunks the myth of all religions are of God John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me''.

Is Jesus beating around the bush? No. He could not be clearer.

How can Jesus say this? Is it a case of being in the right religion? No. Jesus says this because of Jer 17:9-11 God judges the depth of hearts and when we pass, He reveals Jesus to us 1 Cor 12:3, Matt 16:16-17.

There is absolutely no such thing as a person after God's heart who does not run into Jesus. One cannot go into the rain and not ever encounter thunder or lightning. God's heart = Rom 12:9 Hate what is evil and cling to what is good.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Having read the terms and rules of the forum, I wasn't aware of anything that prevented users from doing this:

"...You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws. You are entirely responsible for the content of, and any harm resulting from, that Content or your conduct..."

...Could you show me where it's written that proposing the universalist idea that all religions stem from the One God is not allowed on this forum?

@Torchbearer33

This is a Christian forum. Your suggestion that all religions stem from God is a defamatory comment about our Lord.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1 Timothy 2:5

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Acts 4:12

Perhaps take some time to read the Talk Jesus Statement of Faith


https://www.talkjesus.com/threads/statement-of-faith.

 

[Sue D.]

And another Scripture would be John 14:6 Jesus Christ is saying that "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but by Me".

 

[Bill]

There are only two types of religions in the world.

1. You work you way to heaven, by doing things. Your good deeds out number you bad deeds type of thing

2. Christianity Jesus did all the work for us and we are saved because we believe in him the God almighty. We can never work our way to heaven, because we will never be good enough. So

scripturemy friend the parable about the talents is about receiving the kingdom of heaven. For the one who claims Jesus as Lord, and does nothing but bury his faith in the sand will be thrown into the fire for that person is worthless.

 

[Dave M]

scripturemy friend the parable about the talents is about receiving the kingdom of heaven. For the one who claims Jesus as Lord, and does nothing but bury his faith in the sand will be thrown into the fire for that person is worthless.

Brother Bill how are you ?? good to see you. I agree when we are saved we will be producing all kinds of good work if not you might not be saved. Salvation causes us to work, are work does not cause salvation love ya man

 

[Bill]

Brother Bill how are you ?? good to see you. I agree when we are saved we will be producing all kinds of good work if not you might not be saved. Salvation causes us to work, are work does not cause salvation love ya man

Often people misunderstand words because of how we are taught, or just in our own thinking.

When Jesus tells us we are saved by faith alone, immediately many jump to the conclusion, that being saved means entering heaven. This conclusion is wrong.

It is faith that brings us to Jesus.

But if we want to go to the Father in heaven, we have to take some actions. "Knock, and the door shall be opened" . Just because a person has faith or knowledge of Jesus, doesnt mean your work is now done.

In the parable, the Master gave out talents. The Master also expected those talents to be used.

There are ppl in this world, who have no knowledge of who Jesus is, yet Jesus lives in them.

Jesus states, no one can go to the Father but though me.

Elijah never knew Jesus, yet he spoke to God all the time. Elijah was already going though Jesus, he just never knew it

 

[KingJ]

Often people misunderstand words because of how we are taught, or just in our own thinking.

When Jesus tells us we are saved by faith alone, immediately many jump to the conclusion, that being saved means entering heaven. This conclusion is wrong.

It is faith that brings us to Jesus.

When you say Jesus tells us 'by faith alone', what verse are you para-phrasing?

But if we want to go to the Father in heaven, we have to take some actions. "Knock, and the door shall be opened" . Just because a person has faith or knowledge of Jesus, doesnt mean your work is now done.

In the parable, the Master gave out talents. The Master also expected those talents to be used.

When Jesus knocks at the door to our hearts, the 'works' are done when we open the door and He comes in. The discussion to be had needs to be on what opening the door entails. It is not just a ''come in Jesus / I believe in you''. It is a complete submission to Him as Lord of our lives. A true and sincere repentance as Psalm 51:17 explains. A carrying of our cross and denying ourselves as per Matt 16:24.

The parable of the talents does not speak to salvation. I will argue that if truly saved it is impossible to not have fruits. We cannot use the parable to explain salvation but we can consider it's truthfulness when understanding who is saved and who is not saved. A loving bride will be faithful to her groom. A saved person / Christian is not a stranger from next door who still has to prove themselves. They have been grafted in / entered eternal life because they have let Jesus in. Jesus has come in. Jesus is Lord of their lives.

I must be misreading you but it sounds like you are inferring a works based salvation.

A Christian can be encouraged by the parable of the talents to grasp that the position they are in in life, is well known to God. God knows He gave some perfect health and others not. Some riches and others not. They have encouragement from Jesus to work with what they have. Not to dream of being someone greater to do / accomplish much more / greater feats.

There are ppl in this world, who have no knowledge of who Jesus is, yet Jesus lives in them.

Jesus states, no one can go to the Father but though me.

Elijah never knew Jesus, yet he spoke to God all the time. Elijah was already going though Jesus, he just never knew it

I wouldn't say Jesus lives in someone unknowingly after the cross and the Holy Spirit descending to Earth. Completely agree with Elijah prior to this.

 

[Sue D.]

Bill -- in your third sentence from the last "There are ppl in this world, who have no knowledge of who Jesus is, yet Jesus lives in them."

1 Corinthians 15: 1 - 3 -- in order to be saved -- believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose again on the 3rd day -- all according to the Scriptures.

And the Holy Spirit comes to indwell each believer at the moment of his/ her salvation. The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the God head. Jesus Christ is the 2nd person of and God is the Father, the 1st person of the Godhead.

Elisha / Elijah were Old Testament. One of those two was 'taken'. He 'was' and then he 'wasn't'. God / the Lord God/ took him. Even back Then, a person was still placing their faith in the future coming of Jesus Christ. They had the prophets urging them to repentance. People 'now' have God's Word telling us about Jesus Christ , the cross and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ -- looking back through the 'eye' of Scripture. How many people 'now' reject or accept? It's an individual's decision. Everyone places their faith in 'something/ someone'. Some are placing their faith in their own good works. But Scripture says 'not of works, lest any one should boast'.

 

[Curtis]

what makes a Christian? What does one have to believe and do in order to qualify?

It is very interesting that the word, "Christian" was never used by Jesus's disciples to describe themselves. The word Christian was used by nonbelievers to mock those who acted "Christ like." How can one become a "son of God"

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

[Sue D.]

@ King J. -- regarding post #15 -- the verse he's paraphrasing is probably Ephesians 2:8 - 9 . 'by faith alone' -- " For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest anyone should boast."

 

[Sue D.]

It is very interesting that the word, "Christian" was never used by Jesus's disciples to describe themselves. The word Christian was used by nonbelievers to mock those who acted "Christ like." How can one become a "son of God"

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

The term 'Christian' Has been used to describe those who Are acting Christ-like -- 'what would Jesus do' in any given situation. And, yes, it Did start out in a mocking way and the word 'caught on' to be a Positive adjective.

There are various ways to refer to a Christian // born-again believer. Lots of people believe in Jesus Christ -- it depends on what a person believes About Him. Because He Is the Son of God -- not simply a religious leader of that day in history. Being born-Again means that a person has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. And there are those who specify both Lord and Savior.

 

[Torchbearer33]

It is very interesting that the word, "Christian" was never used by Jesus's disciples to describe themselves. The word Christian was used by nonbelievers to mock those who acted "Christ like." How can one become a "son of God"

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Thank you. Yes. Well, I do these things. Qualification is fairly easy in this regard. But does that pay respects to the people who go to Church every weekend, read the bible religiously, and pray three times a day? Isn't it a bit insulting to them to call yourself a Christian if all you do is claim to believe Jesus will sanctify your sins? What are your thoughts on tat?