Biblical Accuracy

[amadeus2]

Do you think God had any hand in the "translation" of a bible that has lasted 400 years, so far?

Certainly, but what about the believers from the time of the Resurrection of Jesus about 2000 year ago to the time when the KJV version became available? Were they lost due to errors in translation? What was it they used for 1600 years? Did God have a hand in that?

 

[amadeus2]

Greetings,



may i add that English (hence English versions) is only the tongue of about 370 million people out of 7,600,000,000 or 7,600 million. In other words, well over twenty times more people do not use English as their mother tongue. Not the best mathematician but does that equate to about 5%?

Which version should we recommend that the other 7,230,000,000 folks should stick with?


Bless you ....><>

Even so! First is Mandarin Chinese [14.1%] with the number of native speakers; second is Spanish [5.85%]; English [5.52%] is only number three...

 

[amadeus2]

It isn't "ME" that is so unwelcome.
It is the message of complete obedience to God that some find unpalatable.

This is generally true of the message of Jesus, whether it is exactly equal to your message or mine is another question, is it not? Unfortunately sometimes it is the messenger that is attacked even though he did not write the message. Of course, if we re-wrote or misunderstood any part and presented it as unadulterated truth then we carry blame.

How can you "cringe" without acting on it?
Isn't it the Spirit of God, which we are given to, among other things, determine what is of God and what isn't of God?
How can you resist the prodding of the Spirit?

Sometimes people cringe at any kind of change... whether it is a change toward the good of God or away from Him.

I would not presume that every cringe is instigated by the Holy Spirit.

 

[B-A-C]

So then would you conclude that those people living in a period of time when the KJV Bible was available but none of the newer supposedly more accurate versions were available were more likely to be misled and miss God altogether? If that were so, it would seem to make God a respecter of persons which He certainly is not and never has been...

First of all, there never was a time when King James was the "only" Bible available. But it may have been the only English version.
The first "modern language/non Hebrew, nonGreek" Bible were translated into German.

I never said King James led people astray.

The following quote from more than one version indicates that we are not to follow the lead of the Bible but rather the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26 [KJV]

Well the Holy Spirit is certainly important, but more important than the Bible? This is how cults get started.
The part of that verse some people ignore is... "bring all things to your remembrance" that Jesus said to us.
What did Jesus say to us? That would be in the Bible.

 

[amadeus2]

First of all, there never was a time when King James was the "only" Bible available. But it may have been the only English version.
The first "modern language/non Hebrew, nonGreek" Bible were translated into German.

3
Ach sicher, I wieß daß mein Freund. Ich lese die Bibel auf Deutsch.

Certainly, I know those things my friend. I read the Bible in German.

I never said that the KJV was the only English Bible, but I know of no one who reads the Tyndale or Matthews or Geneva as their primary Bibles today. I was not arguing but amplifying and clarifying and asking questions for clarification of what had been presented.
Give God the glory!

I never said King James led people astray.

I do not believe I said that you did. I simply asked a question.

Well the Holy Spirit is certainly important, but more important than the Bible? This is how cults get started.
The part of that verse some people ignore is... "bring all things to your remembrance" that Jesus said to us.
What did Jesus say to us? That would be in the Bible.

Is the Holy Spirit more important than the Bible? What a question! Is the Flesh we are to eat more important than the Blood we are to drink?
Without the Holy Spirit who would be able to understand God's message to men. Atheists also read and study the Bible and come up with erroneous conclusions. Our advantage is by and through the Holy Spirit in us.

 

[cfowen]

I love the way the KJV reads and it's been my main Bible for 30 years, although I know it contains errors, like every Bible does. If it were without error, it wouldn't contain the word "hell" as a replacement for 4 totally unrelated words and, in Lk 23:43, the comma would be after the word "Today", and not before. The latter is an idiom that occurs 42 times in Deuteronomy and one we still use today - "I'm telling you today,........! " or, "I'm telling you right now,........!" We've all heard that before. I know I've used it myself..

When I see a Bible that corrects both of those terrible errors, I usually find a used copy and buy it. They're few and far between. I recently bought a like new hardbound copy of this New Testament from Amazon for $15 and free shipping. Big heavy Book. The only problem is that 2/3 of the pages are devoted to commentary, mainly about Bibles and texts, that I'll probably never read. However, I really like the NT. The guy that produced it used a form of the Textus Receptus and it reads very similar to the KJV, but without the errors I mentioned. When I see a good deal of his OT, I'll buy it also.

https://www.amazon.com/New-Testamen...preST=_SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch

I detest most of the "modern" Bibles, especially the ESV, NIV, ASV, and the NASB. What they all do with, arguably, the most important verse (after Christ and salvation verses, of course) in the NT, 2Tim 2:15, is a travesty. Really bad news and very, very boring to read those Bibles. When I read John in the KJV, I often get emotional. When I read John in a "modern" Bible, I often go to sleep.

 

[Sue D.]

2 Timothy 2:15 "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth."

2 Timothy 2:15 "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

"Study to show thyself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the Word of Truth."

There are those who prefer the old English of the King James Version -- realizing that it was the English used in that day in England. Modern English has replaced 'thee', 'thou', etc. with 'you', 'your' , 'we'.

And the title "King James Version" has a definite sound of authority to it. After all -- since a king authorized it -- it Must be okay. Unlike "Geneva". It's just plain "Geneva". But very much the Word of God.

Thing is that back in that day -- nothing could be printed legally unless it was 'authorized' by King James 1.

The only way 'we' have the Bible / God's Word / is by God giving it by means of the Holy Spirit through men who God chose to write it.

A study Bible includes commentary thoughts at the bottom of pages to help cross-reference verses / groups of verses. That's why it's so thick. I've been able to find Bibles with No commentary additions and it's noticably thinner.

I have an older NIV Study Bible beside my computer. Also a NKJV and just recently an ESV. Probably use the NKJV more than the others.

Since the invention of the printing press -- people have had more access to Scripture portions. God used prophets to warn people -- repent and turn to God.

And Scripture was passed by word of mouth from one person to another -- family to family. God's Word says that He has given us nature to see Him in. That there's Someone 'out there' who is Much bigger than we are.

 

[Curtis]

The Bible does NOT say what we think it says when we read it, the Bible says what God says it says when we read it. With out having a intimate relationship with God the Father through prayer the Bible will always be a "mystery" to those who read it.

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.


No amount of logical, analytical studying of the scriptures can ever "extract" truth. Only God the Father can "reveal" truth through the Holy Spirit, confirmed by the word of God.

 

[Sue D.]

The Bible does NOT say what we think it says when we read it, the Bible says what God says it says when we read it. With out having a intimate relationship with God the Father through prayer the Bible will always be a "mystery" to those who read it.

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.


No amount of logical, analytical studying of the scriptures can ever "extract" truth. Only God the Father can "reveal" truth through the Holy Spirit, confirmed by the word of God.

I'd have to disagree with that somewhat. Your first sentence. That the Bible does Not say what we think it says when we read it. How then can the unsaved read His Word and be saved as a result.

Then what about the 2 Timothy 2:15 passage -- do your best, be diligent , study -- it's talking about God's Word. What a person is supposed to be 'doing with it'.

Well -- the Holy Spirit 'reveals' truth to us as we take the time to read / study/ meditate On His Word.

I have three different Bibles in my room -- I won't learn anything from any of them unless I open one of them up and start reading it.

I don't Understand the mechanisms of how gravity works -- that will probably Always be a Mystery to me. But I DO know -- no doubt about it -- that gravity Does exist and it Does work. Apply That to Scripture -- I'm a born-again believer -- have been for many decades. have done Lots of Bible study courses through churches. CBS / Precepts. There are some books that I've read through several times -- parts are easy to understand -- others not so much -- and some parts I know it's all in the English language, but I Still don't understand 'those portions'. And there are Other people who could sit down and explain those passages and they will make sense -- if only for a while. Could I explain it Back? Probably Not. Are those sections important for my salvation? No. I know it's all God's Word -- I won't 'throw it out' because I Don't understand it. And, who knows -- sometime / someday maybe the Holy Spirit will give me one of those "light turning on" / "ah Ha " moments.

 

[Curtis]

I'd have to disagree with that somewhat. Your first sentence. That the Bible does Not say what we think it says when we read it. How then can the unsaved read His Word and be saved as a result.

Then what about the 2 Timothy 2:15 passage -- do your best, be diligent , study -- it's talking about God's Word. What a person is supposed to be 'doing with it'.

Well -- the Holy Spirit 'reveals' truth to us as we take the time to read / study/ meditate On His Word.

I have three different Bibles in my room -- I won't learn anything from any of them unless I open one of them up and start reading it.

I don't Understand the mechanisms of how gravity works -- that will probably Always be a Mystery to me. But I DO know -- no doubt about it -- that gravity Does exist and it Does work. Apply That to Scripture -- I'm a born-again believer -- have been for many decades. have done Lots of Bible study courses through churches. CBS / Precepts. There are some books that I've read through several times -- parts are easy to understand -- others not so much -- and some parts I know it's all in the English language, but I Still don't understand 'those portions'. And there are Other people who could sit down and explain those passages and they will make sense -- if only for a while. Could I explain it Back? Probably Not. Are those sections important for my salvation? No. I know it's all God's Word -- I won't 'throw it out' because I Don't understand it. And, who knows -- sometime / someday maybe the Holy Spirit will give me one of those "light turning on" / "ah Ha " moments.

The "student" can never teach himself. A Christian is the student, and God is the teacher. The student never decides what he is going to learn, as that is the responsibility of the teacher. The "natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him neither can he know them for they are spiritually understood." How can the natural man ever teach himself? That is impossible! What the natural man can do is logical analyze scripture and come up with man made doctrine.
God alone is the teacher, and if he is then what are we suppose to do to learn from him?

2Ti 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

This does not mean for you to study on your own, and try to figure out scripture, it means to "present your self to God" so he can teach you. Big dig difference there.

Isa 2:3 and many peoples shall come, and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths.” For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

 

[Sue D.]

@Curtis -- as a person Reads, he learns.

 

[cfowen]

I have a friend that never opens or reads or studies the Bible. He says that the Holy Spirit will guide him in all truth, Jn 6:13. Of course, he doesn't believe 2tim 2:15 - "Study to show thyself approved unto God.................!

My friend would prefer to listen to what Christ, who was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, Mt 15:24, said in Jn 16:13 to ONLY the 12, and He was talking about the Comforter, at the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which occurred at Pentecost in Acts 2, as part of the Gifts, which haven't existed since Israel was set aside at the end of Acts --- instead of listening to Paul, our only apostle, and, therefore, always the LAST WORD for us Gentiles.

 

[Curtis]

@Curtis -- as a person Reads, he learns.

Knowledge will pass away through reading. Revelation is eternal given only by God.

 

[cfowen]

2 Timothy 2:15 "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth."

2 Timothy 2:15 "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

"Study to show thyself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the Word of Truth."

.

The first one, which says, "correctly handles" is milky, wimpy, and wrong. Similar words are used in the horrible ESV. According to Strong's, rightly dividing means "make a straight cut", "correctly cut", or "correctly dissect." If the translation doesn't contain the idea of cutting, dividing, dissecting, or separating God's Word of Truth, it is wrong, Those despicable modern versions think they'll sell more Bibles if they don't tell the readers they should cut up God's Word, correctly. of course. The compound Greek word, orthotomeo, is the word translated "rightly dividing." The last part, "tomeo", is translated "circumcision", 16 times. I hope those circumcisions were "correctly handled."

The last 2 are OK.

 

[Curtis]

I have a friend that never opens or reads or studies the Bible. He says that the Holy Spirit will guide him in all truth, Jn 6:13. Of course, he doesn't believe 2tim 2:15 - "Study to show thyself approved unto God.................!

My friend would prefer to listen to what Christ, who was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, Mt 15:24, said in Jn 16:13 to ONLY the 12, and He was talking about the Comforter, at the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which occurred at Pentecost in Acts 2, as part of the Gifts, which haven't existed since Israel was set aside at the end of Acts --- instead of listening to Paul, our only apostle, and, therefore, always the LAST WORD for us Gentiles.

All persons of the God head must at work in teaching the life of a believer. The Father, the Son (Word of God), and the Holy Spirit. take anyone of those out of the learning process, and all you will have is knowledge that will one day pass away. (1 Cor 13:8)

 

[cfowen]

All persons of the God head must at work in teaching the life of a believer. The Father, the Son (Word of God), and the Holy Spirit. take anyone of those out of the learning process, and all you will have is knowledge that will one day pass away. (1 Cor 13:8)

You always seem to talk in riddles. You never seem to back up what you say with scripture that actually applies to the situation?

 

[Curtis]

You always seem to talk in riddles. You never seem to back up what you say with scripture that actually applies to the situation?

It all depends on the ones I am talking to. Those who know a lot about scriptures would know what I am talking about. You are correct the word of God is a "riddle" or we could say a "mystery".


1Cor 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

The word of God is not something you just pick and read like any other kind of book. It must be revealed by the one who spoke it. God the Father is the one who always teaches his child, and as Jesus said, "every one who has heard the Father, and have been taught by him, cometh to me"(John 6:45) Cometh to me who? Jesus (the Word of God) Every thing the Father teaches he confirms by the Word of God, and every thing that Jesus confirms is confirmed by the Holy Spirit. With out three witness we do not have truth, but some other man made doctrine!

1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[cfowen]

Knowledge will pass away through reading. Revelation is eternal given only by God.

No offense, Curtis, but I don't buy any of your statements. You seem to be saying something very similar with the friend of mine that is under the absurd impression that no one needs a Bible - the HS will guide you in everything. The present dispensation has the unique position of being the only people ever with a complete Bible, and the Godhead is in every word. If you're being taught by Spiritual beings placing stuff in your mind, and if that information varies in the slightest from scripture, you'd better see an exorcist.

We Gentiles are being called out today as the only people in Bible history to have a calling of being resurrected into heavenly places, where Christ now sits at the right hand of God.- Compare Eph 1:20 (Christ) with Eph 2:6 (Us) This information appears only in Paul's 7 epistles written AFTER the end of Acts - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, Philemon. Further proof
Phil 3:20
NIV
"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,"
NT in Original Order
"But for us, the commonwealth of God exists in the heavens, from where also we are waiting for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;"

That, along with many other passages in those 7 epistles, prove that those epistles stand along as being the only scripture that is written directly to us Gentiles. All of the other 59 books, starting at Gen 12, including Rom, Cor, Thess, and Gal, are all-Israel. During, which is the only time the Gentiles were given and blessings at all, every saved Gentile was grafted into Israel and were, therefore, part of Israel.

In those other 59 all-Israel books, no group, whether Jew or Gentile, was EVER given a hope of ascending to Heaven - search and see.

And, of course, at this time, no one except Christ, has ever ascended into Heaven - jn 3:13. All dead saved people are asleep in the grave, waiting for the resurrection. All dead lost people have ceased to exist.

So, my question is: Did you know all of that about the heaven calling only in Paul's after-Acts books? There's also a brand new Gentile church in there that is totally different than the one in Acts. In Heaven, we will be Christ's actual body and we, with Christ, who is the actual Head, will be the Bridegroom, while the Acts Church is part of the Bride, along with the OT saints, the 12, etc..:
Eph 5:30
"For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones"
.
If you didn't know all of this, the Godhead is not doing a very good job of teaching you Bible truth. Has the Godhead told you about right division yet, so you can learn about these things and be approved unto God -see 2Tim 2:15, for a preview. Maybe you should just study your totally inspired Bible, like 2Tim 2:15 tells you to do.,
Ps 12:6
"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times."

 

[cfowen]

With scripture, there's no doubt it's from God - Ps 12:6-7. Paul's After-Acts dispensation fulfilled (filled full, completed) the Word of God. - Col 1:25. Everything needed by man is in the Completed Word of Good, the scriptures. Any other communication people think is from God is iffy, at best.

 

[Curtis]

No offense, Curtis, but I don't buy any of your statements. You seem to be saying something very similar with the friend of mine that is under the absurd impression that no one needs a Bible

That is plain nonsense. No where did I say we do not need the Bible. Completely wrong!!! I said the Father teaches his child, and then every thing the father teaches he confirms through his word (the bible), and then the Holy Spirit bears witness to that truth.