The Nature of Temptations

[Curtis]

Who "tempted" or "enticed" Lucifer to sin? He sinned without the help of anyone. Maybe he was "self deceived"

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the northKJV)

Eze 28:14 I placed you there with an anointed guardian cherub;
you were on the holy mountain of God;
you walked about amidst fiery stones.
Eze 28:15 You were blameless in your behavior from the day you were created,
until sin was discovered in you. (NET)

Notice: Sin was discovered in him before he actually attempted to ascend above the stars of God.

 

[At Peace]

Who "tempted" or "enticed" Lucifer to sin? He sinned without the help of anyone. Maybe he was "self deceived"

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the northKJV)

Eze 28:14 I placed you there with an anointed guardian cherub;
you were on the holy mountain of God;
you walked about amidst fiery stones.
Eze 28:15 You were blameless in your behavior from the day you were created,
until sin was discovered in you. (NET)

Notice: Sin was discovered in him before he actually attempted to ascend above the stars of God.

Interesting subject.
What did you use to establish a "time-line"?

 

[BLACKSHEEP]

Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

The Romans said the same thing about Nero, did that make him God? You have to realize that this is being said by the Jews, not a divinely inspire author or prophet. I have said that Jesus is God. The question is, "is Jesus fully God." The answer is NO. Jesus said, "the Father is greater." Jesus also said that he doesn't know the day or hour of his return. IF Jesus was fully God, He would not have said those things. IF he was fully god and declared he doesn't know the day or hour of his return BUT THAT ONLY GOD KNOWS, that means he either forgot, and if he did forget, that means he's not fully God. Or, he simply ISN'T fully God!

If Jesus was also the Father, why would he say,

"As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep."

And then in verse 18 say, "This commandment have I received of my Father."

Now, look at the context of John 10...

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

A trinity is NOT implied, neither is Jesus claiming equality with God when he said, "I and the Father are one"

 

[Curtis]

The question is, "is Jesus fully God." The answer is NO. Jesus said, "the Father is greater." Jesus also said that he doesn't know the day or hour of his return. IF Jesus was fully God, He would not have said those things. IF he was fully god and declared he doesn't know the day or hour of his return BUT THAT ONLY GOD KNOWS, that means he either forgot, and if he did forget, that means he's not fully God. Or, he simply ISN'T fully God!

The word "greater" does not mean "better". Jesus was "limited" in his ability to be in more than one place at a time because of his physical body. When Jesus said, "and greater works shall you do, because I go unto my Father...." There again the word "
word "greater" does not mean better, it means more of. How can his Church do more works than what Jesus did? Because Jesus Christ is now living inside every born again believer. (More of)
Jesus did not need to know the day or the hour of his return, because if he did the Father would not want him to tell them anyway, because they would be long dead way before that day comes!! But Jesus did tell them of the signs that would precede his coming. I have God living inside me, and he knows all things, but I don't know all things.

 

[BLACKSHEEP]

Who "tempted" or "enticed" Lucifer to sin? He sinned without the help of anyone. Maybe he was "self deceived"

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the northKJV)

Eze 28:14 I placed you there with an anointed guardian cherub;
you were on the holy mountain of God;
you walked about amidst fiery stones.
Eze 28:15 You were blameless in your behavior from the day you were created,
until sin was discovered in you. (NET)

Notice: Sin was discovered in him before he actually attempted to ascend above the stars of God.

I don't know why you would associate the temptation of Lucifer who was an Archangel to that of man. Should I explain the difference between man and angels? Between a being who's in the flesh and one being a spirit entity?

Pride was the cause of Lucifer's fall. Pride can also be the cause of mans fall. What does any of that have to do with a serpent, who is associated with Lucifer anyway, have to do Adam and Eve's fall? Not much!

The book of genesis does NOT say the serpent is Lucifer. But you should have quoted Ezekiel 28:13...

13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond,

beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were …

I have a feeling we are just going to go round and round on this.

 

[BLACKSHEEP]

Jesus did not need to know the day or the hour of his return, because if he did the Father would not want him to tell them anyway, because they would be long dead way before that day comes!!

I have no idea what you're getting at. That has noting to do with any of this and is pure speculation. Jesus did say...

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

But Jesus did tell them of the signs that would precede his coming. I have God living inside me, and he knows all things, but I don't know all things.

Right. That means you are not fully God, and that means Jesus is not fully God.

 

[BLACKSHEEP]

The word "greater" does not mean "better". Jesus was "limited" in his ability to be in more than one place at a time because of his physical body. When Jesus said, "and greater works shall you do, because I go unto my Father...." There again the word "
word "greater" does not mean better, it means more of.

Right, and God was more of God than Jesus is God.

 

[Curtis]

The Romans said the same thing about Nero, did that make him God?

How about God the Father calling his own Son God?

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

 

[Curtis]

I don't know why you would associate the temptation of Lucifer who was an Archangel to that of man.

I don know why Jesus would ever say........

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

You see any connection there with man?

 

[BLACKSHEEP]

How about God the Father calling his own Son God?

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Jesus is never called GOD THE SON. And I really should not have to walk you through the verses you quoted to explain just what they are saying. I have no problem believing Jesus is God, only that God the Father is greater!

The only verse that really needs explaining is Hebrews 1:8 which is a quotation of Psalm 45:6-7...

Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you With the oil of joy above your fellows.

In Hebrews 1:8 trinitarians try to say that God is addressing Jesus as 'GOD.' This passage indicates and describes the authority of Jesus he obtained because of the glory of his resurrection....and that's it!

The Greek text literally reads, "the throne of you the god to the age of the age." The writer of Hebrews is simply saying that Jesus is exalted to the throne of God in heaven, NOT that "Jesus is God!" Only that Jesus has ascended to the throne of God and is therefore above the angels with all authority.

 

[BLACKSHEEP]

I don know why Jesus would ever say........

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

You see any connection there with man?

You really know how to make an argument out of nothing. Look at the context of John 8 and look at what you're are trying to support by quoting it.....

This argument all began with you saying Adam and Eve were NOT tempted of the serpent but basically they "tempted themselves!" Then you go about trying to prove your point with Lucifer's fall saying nobody tempted Lucifer who's not even a human being, and the one who likely tempted Eve in the first place!

Look at the context of John 8. Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees. The verse you quoted actually supports what I've been saying all along!

The only thing John 8:44 is saying is that the Pharisees are enticed by Satan...their father!... Which is what I'm saying!

You were trying to tell me that Adam and Eve WERE NOT tempted of the serpent!

You make an argument out of such triviality. Sorry bro. We can do better than this.

 

[Curtis]

The only thing John 8:44 is saying is that the Pharisees are enticed by Satan...their father!...

You do not need to be enticed if you are the seed (children) of the Devil! They were just doing their normal thing.

 

[Curtis]

You were trying to tell me that Adam and Eve WERE NOT tempted of the serpent!

If you want to learn about scripture you can not just assume anything. The New Testament tells us......

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Whose fault is it when a man is enticed to do evil?

 

[Curtis]

Jesus is never called GOD THE SON. And I really should not have to walk you through the verses you quoted to explain just what they are saying. I have no problem believing Jesus is God, only that God the Father is greater!

The only verse that really needs explaining is Hebrews 1:8 which is a quotation of Psalm 45:6-7...

Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you With the oil of joy above your fellows.

In Hebrews 1:8 trinitarians try to say that God is addressing Jesus as 'GOD.' This passage indicates and describes the authority of Jesus he obtained because of the glory of his resurrection....and that's it!

The Greek text literally reads, "the throne of you the god to the age of the age." The writer of Hebrews is simply saying that Jesus is exalted to the throne of God in heaven, NOT that "Jesus is God!" Only that Jesus has ascended to the throne of God and is therefore above the angels with all authority.

Please tell me you are not a "Jehovah Witness"

John 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

 

[BLACKSHEEP]

Please tell me you are not a "Jehovah Witness"

John 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

I don't think you understand the trinity doctrine, and I doubt you even know what a hermeneutic is.

Most trinitarians are NOT JW'S. But even if I was, they are good people and often have legitimate arguments.

 

[BLACKSHEEP]

You do not need to be enticed if you are the seed (children) of the Devil! They were just doing their normal thing.

Right...Like the devil in them didn't entice them at all...right?

 

[BLACKSHEEP]

If you want to learn about scripture you can not just assume anything. The New Testament tells us......

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Whose fault is it when a man is enticed to do evil?

Maybe you need to learn something yourself. These arguments really are foolish. We are always responsible for sin, but there are several driving factors that lead us into temptation.

If you want to learn scripture, get yourself a hermeneutic. You quote scripture and then make it a blanket statement. Maybe you should stop taking things out of context and look at the entire picture of temptation, lust, enticement, and being drawn away. When you omit the context and just quote one verse you mislead yourself.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Our lust is most often drawn away by external circumstances. We can tempt ourselves, but you neglect the fact that there are other factors involved.

You are really taking this too far...

Jesus was tempted by the devil.

Our minds are blinded by Satan, he does influence our thinking, he triggers our lust!

2 Cor. 4:4 among whom the god of this age has blinded the minds of those who do not believe so they would not see the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God.

He's the ruler of this world...

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out.

Ephesians tells us about the flaming arrows of the evil one, and here you are asking me the question, "Whose fault is it when a man is enticed to do evil?"

Eph. 6:16 and in all of this, by taking up the shield of faith with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
Our sinful nature is influenced by the evil one! To say it is not contradicts a host of scriptures. Our sinful nature within us is also triggered by outside influences....Satan and his trickery. We are ultimately responsible for giving in to temptation, but the source of influence come from both within and without. Satan influences our thoughts, so he works 'within' also. To say it only comes from within is very contradictory.

James 4:7 So submit to God. But resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and make your hearts pure, you double-minded.

Nelson’s Bible Dictionary defines temptation as “an enticement or invitation to sin, with the implied promise of greater good to be derived from following the way of disobedience.”

And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”

For this reason, when I could bear it no longer, I sent to learn about your faith, for fear that somehow the tempter had tempted you and our labor would be in vain.
8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

So when we see verses like this...

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

It implies that our flesh has evil tendencies...our PHYSICAL flesh can draw us away...meaning 'lure us', but that does not mean we are to neglect the outside influence of the world and Satan himself. The world and the devil provides the enticement. It's not just US, it's the whole ball of wax...

David Guzik….

Satan certainly tempts us, but the only reason temptation has a hook in us is because of our own fallen nature, which corrupts our God-given desires. We often give Satan too much credit for his tempting powers and fail to recognize that we are drawn away by our own desires. Some people practically beg Satan to tempt them.

Study Guide for James 1 by David Guzik

This is a fruitless argument. You must be a Pentecostal or a Fundamentalist.

 

[Dave M]

"Our minds are blinded by Satan, he does influence our thinking, he triggers our lust!"

2 Cor. 4:4 among whom the god of this age has blinded the minds of those who do not believe so they would not see the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God.

I have never seen that before it is interesting, but it does suggest he does not blind us as we believe

 

[BLACKSHEEP]

"Our minds are blinded by Satan, he does influence our thinking, he triggers our lust!"

2 Cor. 4:4 among whom the god of this age has blinded the minds of those who do not believe so they would not see the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God.

I have never seen that before it is interesting, but it does suggest he does not blind us as we believe

It suggest that he blinds the minds of unbelievers. It does not suggest he CANNOT blind the mind of believers. The evil one can deceive, ensnare humans to do evil, inspire humans to lie, destroys, steals, taunts, or blinds believers or unbelievers.

The context of 2 Peter is believers. Those who lack the virtues mentioned in the previous verses are unfruitful because of their blindness....

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

 

[B-A-C]

Jesus is never called GOD THE SON. And I really should not have to walk you through the verses you quoted to explain just what they are saying. I have no problem believing Jesus is God, only that God the Father is greate

(KJV) Heb 1:8; But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

[NASB) Heb 1:8; But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

Jesus is called God in several other verses.

2 Pet 1:1; Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

Tit 2:13; looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Matt 1:23; "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."