Discussion about the Atoning Death of Christ

[JesusIs4Me]

Rom 5:19 says that they are made righteous by the obedience of One. Now who is the One ?

Jesus Christ; and so how were we made righteous by the obedience of One?

Romans 5:1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

How did the One made us righteous?

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

How is His shed blood applied by Him to us?

Romans 5:1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

 

[Lanolin]

Yep faith in Jesus. There is no other name by whom we are saved.

Thank you Jesus through your blood we have access, amen!

This made me think of the passover lamb, how the israelites when preparing to flee Egypt placed the blood of the lamb over their DOOR.
The angel of death who was carrying the plague then passed over anyone living inside. So demons cannot have access to those who are saved (inside) but the Israelite had access to God (and eventually the promised land). If nobody had applied the blood to their door they would have died.

This is how important the blood is, because Jesus sacrificed his life for us, we must apply his blood to our lives by believing in his name. So we are going to be raised too.

Because Jesus was obedient to the Father, even unto death, doesnt mean we are NOT to be obedient in everything He asks us. Our own blood is not required, it is only Jesus blood that is holy and the perfect sacrifice. If read further in the Bible his saints are called to be living sacrifices..not dead ones. And we who are living must praise and glorify His name!

Another interesting thing about doors is, the israelites were commanded by God to write His name on the doorposts of their house. Well do we do that with our own homes. If we are temples of the holy spirit, is Jesus name written on the doors of our temple? Well Revelation tells us actually yes it is...His name is written on our foreheads. We are sealed. Not with the mark of the beast...but with Jesus name.

 

[beloved57]

Jesus Christ; and so how were we made righteous by the obedience of One?

Romans 5:1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

How did the One made us righteous?

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

How is His shed blood applied by Him to us?

Romans 5:1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

I see those other scriptures, and they are true, however you seem to be dissing what Rom 5:19 says. According to that verse how are the many made righteous ?

 

[beloved57]

jesus4me

Jesus Christ; and so how were we made righteous by the obedience of One?

Thats an invalid question since Rom 5:19 states how many shall be made righteous. Read it Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now if you want t ask me what that Obedience of One is, I will be happy to discuss.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

I see those other scriptures, and they are true, however you seem to be dissing what Rom 5:19 says. According to that verse how are the many made righteous ?

If you say I am dissing that verse, then you must be dissing those other verses. As it is, "many" are made righteous is not testifying to "all" or "everyone that has ever lived" made righteous. His shed blood applies to those who only believe in Him.

 

[beloved57]

If you say I am dissing that verse, then you must be dissing those other verses. As it is, "many" are made righteous is not testifying to "all" or "everyone that has ever lived" made righteous. His shed blood applies to those who only believe in Him.

No you are dissing that one verse, I stated my point with it. For me to deviate from it is allowing you to evade it and start a rabbit trail to what you want to discuss. I never said anything about everyone who ever lived being made righteous, you interjected that, again thats misrepresenting anything i said. I asked you to please go by what I actually have stated. Now according to Rom 5:19 how are the many made righteous ? Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

I never said anything about everyone who ever lived being made righteous, you interjected that, again thats misrepresenting anything i said. I asked you to please go by what I actually have stated. Now according to Rom 5:19 how are the many made righteous ? Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Not from the way you had been going in this discussion with me. This is an impasse.

I probably should have started at the OP.

(Note: the following is a discussion about the atoning death of Christ and our part in it.
Posts #1 - #25 were moved from another thread. Member beloved57 did not start this thread. Apologies for any confusion)

Question, did what Jesus did for those He did it for, ensure their Salvation ?

I'd say Yes.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

James was not talking about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. James was addressing the church's abuse of the poor in that second chapter where even the church was sending them away by a benediction "To be warmed & to be filled" as if applying faith in His Providence that this will supernaturally occur to the poor.

But it is in the eyes of the poor that the church's faith in His Providence will not profit the poor nor saved the poor because the church was not leading by example when the church could have met their immediate need of those about to perish from starvation and the elements by giving from the bounty collected during church service to the poor after church service.

James was never talking about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation but about how the church was abusing the poor in getting out of helping the poor by verbalizing their faith in His Providence to the poor that God will take care of them.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

James was not talking about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. James was addressing the church's abuse of the poor in that second chapter where even the church was sending them away by a benediction "To be warmed & to be filled" as if applying faith in His Providence that this will supernaturally occur to the poor.

But it is in the eyes of the poor that the church's faith in His Providence will not profit the poor nor saved the poor because the church was not leading by example when the church could have met their immediate need of those about to perish from starvation and the elements by giving from the bounty collected during church service to the poor after church service.

James was never talking about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation but about how the church was abusing the poor in getting out of helping the poor by verbalizing their faith in His Providence to the poor that God will take care of them.

thank you for clarifying this,


Bless you ...><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings @beloved57 ,

May I ask if you are one of the many, for this is what is important to me.


There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. ( Behold, I will send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me: and the Lord, Whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, He shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. Malachi 3:1 )

The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through Him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not.

He came unto His own, and His own received Him not. But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:6-13


Bless you ....><>

 

[B-A-C]

James was not talking about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. James was addressing the church's abuse of the poor in that second chapter where even the church was sending them away by a benediction "To be warmed & to be filled" as if applying faith in His Providence that this will supernaturally occur to the poor.

Which would still be works.

 

[beloved57]

Greetings @beloved57 ,

May I ask if you are one of the many, for this is what is important to me.


There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. ( Behold, I will send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me: and the Lord, Whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, He shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. Malachi 3:1 )

The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through Him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not.

He came unto His own, and His own received Him not. But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:6-13


Bless you ....><>

 

[beloved57]

I'm not here to talk about myself but about Jesus Christ. That's what is important to me. Are you interested ?

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

I'm not here to talk about myself but about Jesus Christ. That's what is important to me. Are you interested ?

Firstly, it is good that we talk about Jesus Christ here, being TalkJesus! Good!

Am I interested? ALWAYS!!!

Regarding talking about yourself, I hear you and yet we all do to some degree or another, which is quite OK because we should be able to express our understanding and what the Scriptures mean to us and even sometimes we share something of what we desire from other members in our attempt to communicate, as you have done repeatedly.
Even the words you used, "I am not here...." is talking about yourself, so please relax and begin to understand that here at TalkJesus we all want and enjoy the fellowship that Christ has bought for us in calling us all together in Himself to the glory and praise of God.

May you know the peace of God that passes all understanding, both yours, mine and everyone else's.

Bless you ....><>

 

[beloved57]

Greetings,



Firstly, it is good that we talk about Jesus Christ here, being TalkJesus! Good!

Am I interested? ALWAYS!!!

Regarding talking about yourself, I hear you and yet we all do to some degree or another, which is quite OK because we should be able to express our understanding and what the Scriptures mean to us and even sometimes we share something of what we desire from other members in our attempt to communicate, as you have done repeatedly.
Even the words you used, "I am not here...." is talking about yourself, so please relax and begin to understand that here at TalkJesus we all want and enjoy the fellowship that Christ has bought for us in calling us all together in Himself to the glory and praise of God.

May you know the peace of God that passes all understanding, both yours, mine and everyone else's.

Bless you ....><>

This thread is titled the atoning death of Christ. How is that so? Can any explain what that means? How from the scripture does Christ death atone? Lets discuss that? I'm interested in that. Thanks

 

[Br. Bear]

Before we move on to the Obedience of One which I am interested in, for He is my security and surety, can we please consider more the Scripture you (beloved57) have been sharing with us?
Romans 5:19

ὥσπερ γὰρ διὰ τῆς παρακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἁμαρτωλοὶ κατεστάθησαν οἱ πολλοί, οὕτως καὶ διὰ τῆς ὑπακοῆςτοῦ ἑνὸς δίκαιοι κατασταθήσονται οἱ πολλοί.

you might notice that it clearly states, 'the many', twice, not 'many' as is usually understood due to language differences. Is this relevant to us, as Christians, in understand the whole message in Scripture?

Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

This thread is titled the atoning death of Christ. How is that so? Can any explain what that means? How from the scripture does Christ death atone? Lets discuss that? I'm interested in that. Thanks

I think it is titled, 'Discussion about the Atoning Death of Christ'. So, as is the norm here at TalkJesus, members like to discuss these topics. Remember that this is a forum and not your personal lecture theatre, please.

How from the scripture does Christ death atone?

On quite a few posts, members have attempted to consider and learn from the Scriptures but you keep insisting on only a couple of verses.
(I really would prefer to not keep having to 'instruct' you about these matters and would much prefer an open and sensible discussion about Jesus Christ and all He has done for us, whether we know it or not or even understand it or not. So, if you ask the question, "How from the scripture does Christ death atone?" please be open and welcoming to discuss any Scripture that others may respond with.
Makes sense... doesn't it?


Bless you ....><>

 

[beloved57]

Before we move on to the Obedience of One whci I am interested in, for He is my security and surety, can we please consider more the Scripture you (beloved57) have been sharing with us?
Romans 5:19

ὥσπερ γὰρ διὰ τῆς παρακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἁμαρτωλοὶ κατεστάθησαν οἱ πολλοί, οὕτως καὶ διὰ τῆς ὑπακοῆςτοῦ ἑνὸς δίκαιοι κατασταθήσονται οἱ πολλοί.

you might notice that it clearly states, 'the many', twice. Is this relevant to us, as Christians, in understand the whole message in Scripture?

Bless you ....><>

This scripture teaches that by Christ's death alone, or His Obedience alone many shall be made righteous or Just. The word righteous here in Rom 5:19 is the same word rendered just, like in Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Now back to Rom 5:19, Paul here makes a contrast, as by one mans disobedience [adam] many were made sinners. Note it was not by the disobedience of the many that made them sinners, but only by the one; So by the obedience of one [Christ] shall many be made righteous or just or Justified. Note again it was not by the obedience of many that they shall be made just or righteous, but only by the One.

Do you understand the contrast here ?

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Now back to Rom 5:19, Paul here makes a contrast, as by one mans disobedience [adam] many were made sinners. Note it was not by the disobedience of the many that made them sinners, but only by the one; So by the obedience of one [Christ] shall many be made righteous or just or Justified. Note again it was not by the obedience of many that they shall be made just or righteous, but only by the One.

Do you understand the contrast here ?

sorry, No. I am not sure what you mean... "contrast". I'd be glad if you can help me understand what you are meaning.


Bless you ....><>

 

[beloved57]

Greetings,



sorry, No. I am not sure what you mean... "contrast". I'd be glad if you can help me understand what you are meaning.


Bless you ....><>

Ok at least you are honest here. I will explain, Paul here in Rom 5:19 is contrasting the act and result of two different men, Adam and Christ. Now by the act of one man adam, it resulted in many being made sinners, contrasted with the act of One man Jesus Christ it results in many shall be made righteous. Now can you see that contrast in Rom 5:19 ?