By Grace Alone
- Thread starter RJ
- Start date
Bendito
Loyal
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2015
- Messages
- 3,854
RJ Above where I asked all of these questions I gave several scriptures to back them up...You are not giving me any scriptures to back up what you are saying. I can only conclude that what you are spouting is doctrines that you learned..doctrines that are not thought out nor are they based on any scripture....The bible does not say what mercy is, but by the way mercy is given we can see that it IS completely undeserved......Grace on the other hand is not defined in the bible either
By the usage of Grace in the bible though (not the word grace, but the actual thing) you can see that it's totally different from mercy. God told Paul "My grace is sufficient for you." He did not say His mercy was sufficient, He said Grace....or to put it differently. My Power is sufficient for you....Us it! Gods power is made perfect...2 Corinthians 12:8-10 (CJB)
8 Three times I begged the Lord to take this thing away from me; 9 but he told me, “My grace is enough for you, for my power is brought to perfection in weakness.” Therefore, I am very happy to boast about my weaknesses, in order that the Messiah’s power will rest upon me. 10 Yes, I am well pleased with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions and difficulties endured on behalf of the Messiah; for it is when I am weak that I am strong.
He's telling Paul to use His strength instead of his own puny strength.....That's why Paul was happy about that.
Its like 'You step out onto the porch and there is a big old rattle snake there in front of you. You step back and yell "Pa! There's a rattler on the porch" and your dad looks up from his paper and says "That 22 rifle there is good enough" Well its worthless if you don't pick it up and use it, right? Take advantage of Gods strength that He gives you and take the war to the enemy.
Now are you going to give me scripture? Or do I have to assume that you're just spouting religious nonsense? I ask this way, not to offend but to say ' there is the truth and there is nonsense.'
[E="Bendito, post: 267106, member: 30713"]Heb 13:9
Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them. Foods in this verse can be literal or figurative. In this case it must be Spiritual because context is about doctrines not hot dogs.
Various and strange doctrines. Is what has happened to some of the bible. I believe that the enemy of God has caused certain phrases to creep into the church, so our mind jumps to a conclusion that is wrong to keep us from the truth.
Grace is called.... unmerited favor .... This then has to be explained as, God is good to us even though we don't deserve it.
We believe that, because we know that this is basically true. God is good to us even though we don't deserve it. So we accept it.
That's the problem. Because it is not true. Based on what the bible teaches, this simply cannot be the true meaning of grace.
I can show you why, by asking three questions.
1. If Grace is unmerited favor (that is to say, God is good to us even though we don't deserve it.) Then every body gets this grace right?
Then why does God only give it only to the humble? James 4:6, and 1 peter 5:5
If it is truly unmerited favor, wouldn't God give it to the proud more then the humble? Wouldn't they "not merit" it more then the humble?
2. If Grace is unmerited favor (God is good to us even though we don't deserve it.)
then why can you fall from it?
Gal. 5:4 says you are fallen from grace.- So, God is going to give me something I don't deserve and then take it away if I don't deserve it. I'd be better off backsliding so I could get more grace.
3. If Grace is unmerited favor (God is good to us even though we don't deserve it.)
Then why was Grace upon Jesus? Luke 2:40
And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.
Are you fully prepared to say that grace was upon Jesus even though He didn't deserve it?
See in these verses it doesn't fit. but in some it does. As in Eph 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
So it seems to fit in some, but wait until you see it as it really should be.
It doesn't just change. It almost explodes.
Before I do that, let me explain something;
(God is good to us even though we don't deserve it.)
This is true and we know it. The bible calls this Mercy!
1. Mercy is unmerited favor. And as such God gives it to the humble, and to the proud. His mercy is all over His works; He makes the rain to fall and the Sun to shine on the just and the unjust.
See mercy is given and applied to all of Gods works, Where grace is given only to the humble.
We are all under His mercy, but we are not all walking in His grace.
2. We have blended grace and mercy into one idea; and we explain it like this; "Mercy is God withholding from us what we do deserve, and Grace is God giving to us what we don't deserve".
3. That's clever but it is wrong. Mercy is all of that; and grace is something altogether different. So ... what is Grace?
We need to thank God every day for His mercy.
But now lets find out just what grace is.
What does the bible say?
The Greek word Chris (khar-ece) (5485) No matter how it is translated shows up in the New Testament some 156 times. 110 times in the writings of Paul.
Clearly the Apostle Paul dominates the subject. For good reason, he had a life changing encounter with grace after the Damascus experience
I mean he went from Rom 7:19-20
"For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me."
On down to verse;24
Where he says "O wretched man that I am!"
All the way to;Phil 4:13
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
How did he get there?
He went through 2 Corinthians 12 where he explains the revelation that didn't just change his life, it changed his living.
2 Cor 12:9
And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness."
(When Paul finally got it, he replied)
"Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."
Paul right there tells us what grace is. God said "My grace is sufficient" and Paul said, "that the power of Christ may rest on me." It's the "power of Christ".
So we know that when Paul used the word grace, he meant the power of Christ. So when he started a letter saying may grace and peace to you he meant the "power of Christ"
What a pity we settle for only the good that we can do. Instead of what Jesus Christ can do through us.
Mercy is unmerited favor - But, Grace is the empowering presence of God, enabling you to be who he created you to be, and to do what He has called you to do.
Jesus taught this - The early church believed this - Paul teaches it to us today, through his letters.
This definition,
The empowering presence of God enabling us to be what we were created to be and to do what we are called to do. That is the whole thorn in the flesh conversation.
Paul realizing that the presence of God was there with him enabling him to overcome that thing.
Was the thorn in the flesh taken away? It doesn't matter, because, it doesn't matter. Paul had grace.
This definition answers our questions.
See if grace is the (power of Christ) does it make sense that God would resist the proud and give the power of Christ to the humble? Yes of course, the prideful are on their own and want to be. The humble know they need help.
Does this explain, Falling from grace? (empowering presence of God) Yes, See, it is power for doing God's will. Not your own. When you do your own thing, you are on your own. (fallen from Grace)
Does this explain Jesus having Grace upon Him? (empowering presence of God) Yes, I should say so.
Here's the effect it had on Paul.
1 Cor 15:10
"But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."
Do you think he is talking about unmerited favor?
See the problem with thinking unmerited favor is grace, we read a verse like this and we go fake humble.
We say, "Oh by the grace of God I am what I am but not me just the grace of god in me, all praise to his name."
That is not the kind of thing that will get you fired up and your juices flowing. That is not the kind of thing that will carry the gospel to all four corners of the world.
a.(Empowers you to do what you are called to do)
and it is about all of us, it is about you.
2 Cor 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.
Can you see that Paul means something more then this God is good to you though you don't deserve it.
God is good to you though you don't deserve it. That is mercy. But God empowers you to do what He has called you to do.
b.(Empowers you to be what you were created to be)
Acts 20:32
"So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
You see, you are not built up until you have grace and you don't receive your inheritance, until you have grace.
The Bible says;
2 Cor 6:1
"We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain."
The word vain means having no intention of doing anything with it.
See unmerited favor will cause you to do just that.
Because when we pat you on the back and say that by grace you are saved and we think by unmerited favor we are saved. Nothing happens.
But when we understand that by the power of Christ you are saved then something must happen.
c.(What it gives us)
1 Cor 1:4-7
"I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus, that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge, even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
d.(Use what you have been given)
1 Peter 4:9-10
As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
Steward is one - entrusted with the goods of another to do his business his way.
Use your gifts as to the measure that God has given you.
"The measure of Grace"
Eph 4:7
But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.
See, it is power for doing God's will. Not your own. When you do your own thing, you are on your own. (fallen from Grace)
If you have fallen from grace, Doesn't mean you have lost your salvation. Just your mind.
What happens if we blow it?
The measure of Mercy!
Ps 145:8-9
8 The LORD is gracious and full of compassion,
Slow to anger and great in mercy.
9 The LORD is good to all,
And His tender mercies are over all His works.
The Grace of God is real, and it's powerful,
And this is what it does,
Titus 2:11-14
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and Godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Come boldly to the throne of Grace!
Heb 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
When you feel the least worthy is when you are the most welcomed!
There is absolutely no excuse for you to linger in a prolonged state of mediocrity.
As I was finishing up this message I asked God, "do I have your heart on grace, and he said "no Look closer." then I read for the zillionth time, "God resists the proud and give grace to the humble."
Not every body gets grace. And it is a salvation issue. That is why calling it, Unmerited favor is so dangerous.
If we are saved by unmerited favor then nothing has to happen and nothing has to change.
But if we are changed by the power of Christ then something must happen, things must change.
It says
James 4:5-7
Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"?
But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:
"God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble."
Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
1 Peter 5:5-7
Submit to God, Resist the Devil
Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your Elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for
"God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble."
Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time,
You don't obtain grace ( the power of Christ) by standing up and claiming it. You get it at the throne of grace where you receive mercy and obtain grace to help in your time of need.
No matter what kind of husband, wife, employee, church elder, or Christian you have been. You need mercy. And then you will obtain the empowering presence of God to be who you are supposed to be and to do what you are supposed to.
Eph 6:24
Grace be with all those who love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.
Make a list of New testament scriptures on grace and every time you come to the word grace. Stop and insert "The power of Christ" it will cause your bible to literally explode and will change your living.[/QUOTE]
Brother I agree , its clear as day.
St. John 1:12
Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them. Foods in this verse can be literal or figurative. In this case it must be Spiritual because context is about doctrines not hot dogs.
Various and strange doctrines. Is what has happened to some of the bible. I believe that the enemy of God has caused certain phrases to creep into the church, so our mind jumps to a conclusion that is wrong to keep us from the truth.
Grace is called.... unmerited favor .... This then has to be explained as, God is good to us even though we don't deserve it.
We believe that, because we know that this is basically true. God is good to us even though we don't deserve it. So we accept it.
That's the problem. Because it is not true. Based on what the bible teaches, this simply cannot be the true meaning of grace.
I can show you why, by asking three questions.
1. If Grace is unmerited favor (that is to say, God is good to us even though we don't deserve it.) Then every body gets this grace right?
Then why does God only give it only to the humble? James 4:6, and 1 peter 5:5
If it is truly unmerited favor, wouldn't God give it to the proud more then the humble? Wouldn't they "not merit" it more then the humble?
2. If Grace is unmerited favor (God is good to us even though we don't deserve it.)
then why can you fall from it?
Gal. 5:4 says you are fallen from grace.- So, God is going to give me something I don't deserve and then take it away if I don't deserve it. I'd be better off backsliding so I could get more grace.
3. If Grace is unmerited favor (God is good to us even though we don't deserve it.)
Then why was Grace upon Jesus? Luke 2:40
And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.
Are you fully prepared to say that grace was upon Jesus even though He didn't deserve it?
See in these verses it doesn't fit. but in some it does. As in Eph 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
So it seems to fit in some, but wait until you see it as it really should be.
It doesn't just change. It almost explodes.
Before I do that, let me explain something;
(God is good to us even though we don't deserve it.)
This is true and we know it. The bible calls this Mercy!
1. Mercy is unmerited favor. And as such God gives it to the humble, and to the proud. His mercy is all over His works; He makes the rain to fall and the Sun to shine on the just and the unjust.
See mercy is given and applied to all of Gods works, Where grace is given only to the humble.
We are all under His mercy, but we are not all walking in His grace.
2. We have blended grace and mercy into one idea; and we explain it like this; "Mercy is God withholding from us what we do deserve, and Grace is God giving to us what we don't deserve".
3. That's clever but it is wrong. Mercy is all of that; and grace is something altogether different. So ... what is Grace?
We need to thank God every day for His mercy.
But now lets find out just what grace is.
What does the bible say?
The Greek word Chris (khar-ece) (5485) No matter how it is translated shows up in the New Testament some 156 times. 110 times in the writings of Paul.
Clearly the Apostle Paul dominates the subject. For good reason, he had a life changing encounter with grace after the Damascus experience
I mean he went from Rom 7:19-20
"For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me."
On down to verse;24
Where he says "O wretched man that I am!"
All the way to;Phil 4:13
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
How did he get there?
He went through 2 Corinthians 12 where he explains the revelation that didn't just change his life, it changed his living.
2 Cor 12:9
And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness."
(When Paul finally got it, he replied)
"Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."
Paul right there tells us what grace is. God said "My grace is sufficient" and Paul said, "that the power of Christ may rest on me." It's the "power of Christ".
So we know that when Paul used the word grace, he meant the power of Christ. So when he started a letter saying may grace and peace to you he meant the "power of Christ"
What a pity we settle for only the good that we can do. Instead of what Jesus Christ can do through us.
Mercy is unmerited favor - But, Grace is the empowering presence of God, enabling you to be who he created you to be, and to do what He has called you to do.
Jesus taught this - The early church believed this - Paul teaches it to us today, through his letters.
This definition,
The empowering presence of God enabling us to be what we were created to be and to do what we are called to do. That is the whole thorn in the flesh conversation.
Paul realizing that the presence of God was there with him enabling him to overcome that thing.
Was the thorn in the flesh taken away? It doesn't matter, because, it doesn't matter. Paul had grace.
This definition answers our questions.
See if grace is the (power of Christ) does it make sense that God would resist the proud and give the power of Christ to the humble? Yes of course, the prideful are on their own and want to be. The humble know they need help.
Does this explain, Falling from grace? (empowering presence of God) Yes, See, it is power for doing God's will. Not your own. When you do your own thing, you are on your own. (fallen from Grace)
Does this explain Jesus having Grace upon Him? (empowering presence of God) Yes, I should say so.
Here's the effect it had on Paul.
1 Cor 15:10
"But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."
Do you think he is talking about unmerited favor?
See the problem with thinking unmerited favor is grace, we read a verse like this and we go fake humble.
We say, "Oh by the grace of God I am what I am but not me just the grace of god in me, all praise to his name."
That is not the kind of thing that will get you fired up and your juices flowing. That is not the kind of thing that will carry the gospel to all four corners of the world.
a.(Empowers you to do what you are called to do)
and it is about all of us, it is about you.
2 Cor 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.
Can you see that Paul means something more then this God is good to you though you don't deserve it.
God is good to you though you don't deserve it. That is mercy. But God empowers you to do what He has called you to do.
b.(Empowers you to be what you were created to be)
Acts 20:32
"So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
You see, you are not built up until you have grace and you don't receive your inheritance, until you have grace.
The Bible says;
2 Cor 6:1
"We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain."
The word vain means having no intention of doing anything with it.
See unmerited favor will cause you to do just that.
Because when we pat you on the back and say that by grace you are saved and we think by unmerited favor we are saved. Nothing happens.
But when we understand that by the power of Christ you are saved then something must happen.
c.(What it gives us)
1 Cor 1:4-7
"I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus, that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge, even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
d.(Use what you have been given)
1 Peter 4:9-10
As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
Steward is one - entrusted with the goods of another to do his business his way.
Use your gifts as to the measure that God has given you.
"The measure of Grace"
Eph 4:7
But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.
See, it is power for doing God's will. Not your own. When you do your own thing, you are on your own. (fallen from Grace)
If you have fallen from grace, Doesn't mean you have lost your salvation. Just your mind.
What happens if we blow it?
The measure of Mercy!
Ps 145:8-9
8 The LORD is gracious and full of compassion,
Slow to anger and great in mercy.
9 The LORD is good to all,
And His tender mercies are over all His works.
The Grace of God is real, and it's powerful,
And this is what it does,
Titus 2:11-14
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and Godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Come boldly to the throne of Grace!
Heb 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
When you feel the least worthy is when you are the most welcomed!
There is absolutely no excuse for you to linger in a prolonged state of mediocrity.
As I was finishing up this message I asked God, "do I have your heart on grace, and he said "no Look closer." then I read for the zillionth time, "God resists the proud and give grace to the humble."
Not every body gets grace. And it is a salvation issue. That is why calling it, Unmerited favor is so dangerous.
If we are saved by unmerited favor then nothing has to happen and nothing has to change.
But if we are changed by the power of Christ then something must happen, things must change.
It says
James 4:5-7
Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"?
But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:
"God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble."
Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
1 Peter 5:5-7
Submit to God, Resist the Devil
Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your Elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for
"God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble."
Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time,
You don't obtain grace ( the power of Christ) by standing up and claiming it. You get it at the throne of grace where you receive mercy and obtain grace to help in your time of need.
No matter what kind of husband, wife, employee, church elder, or Christian you have been. You need mercy. And then you will obtain the empowering presence of God to be who you are supposed to be and to do what you are supposed to.
Eph 6:24
Grace be with all those who love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.
Make a list of New testament scriptures on grace and every time you come to the word grace. Stop and insert "The power of Christ" it will cause your bible to literally explode and will change your living.[/QUOTE]
Brother I agree , its clear as day.
St. John 1:12
RJ
Active
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2009
- Messages
- 4,080
You know, you are actually a very rude person. Of course I give scriptures, but of course you fail to reply to them, just make rude accusations. Here is a prime example:
This is post # 33, In the common thread, Conditional Salvation and , of course a thread that you are on and you fail to reply to?
God himself defines grace as a gift from him. SO when He says you are saved by grace and not works, what else is there?
Aside from Ephesians 2:8-9, here are some other by grace scriptures:
- Ephesians 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace His grace, nothing from you!
- 1 Timothy 1: 15-16 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. Christ saves sinners, doesn't say anything about being based on also what the sinner must do.
- Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." God alone, his grace alone
- Romans 5: 15-17 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. It is a "free gift"...being free, there is nothing you must do to get it!
- Colossians 1: 13-14 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, If we needed rescue from God, means we are not capable to or can do anything to rescue ourselves
- 2 Thessalonians 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, By a free gift and therefore nothing we can do.
- This was just a few scriptures other than Ephesians 2: 8-9....why fight it?
Bendito
Loyal
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2015
- Messages
- 3,854
Brother I agree , its clear as day.
St. John 1:12[/QUOTE]
What version of the bible are you youngsters reading? We are saved by the empowering PRESENCE of God because of His mercy....Guess What?
You know, you are actually a very rude person. Of course I give scriptures, but of course you fail to reply to them, just make rude accusations. Here is a prime example:
This is post # 33, In the common thread, Conditional Salvation and , of course a thread that you are on and you fail to reply to?
God himself defines grace as a gift from him. SO when He says you are saved by grace and not works, what else is there?
Aside from Ephesians 2:8-9, here are some other by grace scriptures:
- Ephesians 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace His grace, nothing from you!
- 1 Timothy 1: 15-16 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. Christ saves sinners, doesn't say anything about being based on also what the sinner must do.
- Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." God alone, his grace alone
- Romans 5: 15-17 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. It is a "free gift"...being free, there is nothing you must do to get it!
- Colossians 1: 13-14 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, If we needed rescue from God, means we are not capable to or can do anything to rescue ourselves
- 2 Thessalonians 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, By a free gift and therefore nothing we can do.
- This was just a few scriptures other than Ephesians 2: 8-9....why fight it?
Oh You want me to reply to each and every scripture you give? Why didn't you say so? Ok
Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
answ. It says that salvation is a gift of God...not grace, but by His Grace we are saved
Ephesians 1:7-8 (CJB)
7 In union with him, through the shedding of his blood, we are set free — our sins are forgiven; this accords with the wealth of the grace he has lavished on us.
answ..He has lavished His grace on us...Grace not mercy
1 Timothy 1:15-16 (CJB)
15 So here is a statement you can trust, one that fully deserves to be accepted: the Messiah came into the world to save sinners, and I’m the number one sinner! 16 But this is precisely why I received mercy — so that in me, as the number one sinner, Yeshua the Messiah might demonstrate how very patient he is, as an example to those who would later come to trust in him and thereby have eternal life.
answ..I agree We are not saved because of anything we did, but because of Gods mercy and through His grace.
Acts 4:12 (CJB)
12 There is salvation in no one else! For there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by whom we must be saved!”
answ..Right you are there is no other salvation but through Jesus
Romans 5:15-17 (CJB)
15 But the free gift is not like the offence. For if, because of one man’s offence, many died, then how much more has God’s grace, that is, the gracious gift of one man, Yeshua the Messiah, overflowed to many! 16 No, the free gift is not like what resulted from one man’s sinning; for from one sinner came judgment that brought condemnation; but the free gift came after many offences and brought acquittal. 17 For if, because of the offence of one man, death ruled through that one man; how much more will those receiving the overflowing grace, that is, the gift of being considered righteous, rule in life through the one man Yeshua the Messiah!
answ... So salvation is free..again We're agreed....And notice..Salvation, the free gift came even after many offenses. There's mercy... So you accept the free gift offered and you are saved by the Grace of God. And you are made righteous in Him
Colossians 1:13-14 (CJB)
13 He has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of his dear Son.
14 It is through his Son that we have redemption — that is, our sins have been forgiven.
answ...Right That's the mercy of God. and yes we did not have to earn it.
2 Thessalonians 2:16-17 (CJB)
16 And may our Lord Yeshua the Messiah himself and God our Father, who has loved us and by his grace given us eternal comfort and a good hope, 17 comfort your hearts and strengthen you in every good word and deed.
answ....Yup So what am I fighting? I still say that mercy and grace are two different things and I still say that you still have not shown me otherwise. All of what we shared just now we are agreed on.
And I am not rude...I do speak my mind and if you have a problem with the way I approach a topic...I'm sorry RJ Its not my problem but yours... The whole point of this discussion is that mercy and grace are not the same...
Bendito
Loyal
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2015
- Messages
- 3,854
So here you gave one verse that talks about how we are saved by grace. and no verses that say they are the same thing...In the last verse 'We are saved by grace through faith ....the mercy of God allowed us to approach and receive His grace.....Because of His Mercy Jesus died for us...because of His Grace we are saved. He literally put His PRESENSE inside us..
What version of the bible are you youngsters reading? We are saved by the empowering PRESENCE of God because of His mercy....Guess What?
For me KJV, what should I guess ?
Bendito
Loyal
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2015
- Messages
- 3,854
Thank you Norapture....a few more verses that show the difference between mercy and grace.
2 Corinthians 5:17-21 (CJB)
17 Therefore, if anyone is united with the Messiah, he is a new creation — the old has passed; look, what has come is fresh and new! 18 And it is all from God, who through the Messiah has reconciled us to himself and has given us the work of that reconciliation, 19 which is that God in the Messiah was reconciling mankind to himself, not counting their sins against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore we are ambassadors of the Messiah; in effect, God is making his appeal through us. What we do is appeal on behalf of the Messiah, “Be reconciled to God! 21 God made this sinless man be a sin offering on our behalf, so that in union with him we might fully share in God’s righteousness.”
Look at the Mercy of God!…Even before I accepted Jesus I was put in the position of a righteous man. That’s Mercy!….Now I accept it and God empowers me to take it..by putting His Spirit inside of me as soon as I decide I want it…That’s Grace!
John 1:12-13 (CJB)
12 But to as many as did receive him, to those who put their trust in his person and power, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 not because of bloodline, physical impulse or human intention, but because of God.
Here it is again! He shows us His mercy….We accept the gift….God’s grace empowers us and we are adopted into Him.
Romans 3:20-22 (CJB)
20 For in his sight no one alive will be considered righteous on the ground of legalistic observance of Torah commands, because what Torah really does is show people how sinful they are.
21 But now, quite apart from Torah, God’s way of making people righteous in his sight has been made clear — although the Torah and the Prophets give their witness to it as well — 22 and it is a righteousness that comes from God, through the faithfulness of Yeshua the Messiah, to all who continue trusting. For it makes no difference whether one is a Jew or a Gentile,
Because of His mercy we know our need for Him, and His Grace facilitates it.
Amen , we go to the throne when we need grace to help us in our time of need , when we fill like Paul that we can't go on, and his grace is sufficient to help us.
amadeus2
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2008
- Messages
- 4,456
Nor do I know how to explain it any better if you do not understand my meaning. If I'm wrong may the good Lord help me to discover my error, but I do not believe that I am.
Rather than looking for support for what you already believe look to the Lord to direct you so as to correct any errors in your beliefs. I will certain do the same.
RJ
Active
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2009
- Messages
- 4,080
- "So here you gave one verse that talks about how we are saved by grace." Wow, that was from a thread 10 months ago, you are really reaching. Now back to current events: I have posted multiple scriptures about grace, several times, but you do not acknowledge those?!
- So, let's look at his again: "So here you gave one verse that talks about how we are saved by grace. and no verses that say they are the same thing" What are you talking about?....what same thing?You are getting threads mixed up; this one of mine that you have "quoted" here is / was about grace only!
- Now, looking at the present, I do see where you have stated that Mercy and Grace are not the same thing. Since you have addressed this to me on several occasions, I can only assume that you are intimating that I disagree and that I am saying that Mercy and Grace are the same thing. You know, who really knows fully about God, certainly Paul says in 1 COR 13, that we don't. But, if you are , in fact, implying that I am saying they are the same, would you please be so kind as to quote me again where I actually said that?
RJ
Active
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2009
- Messages
- 4,080
Not too sure what your meaning is/ was? I guess we will just have to agree to agree or agree to disagree, which ever it is?
RJ
Active
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2009
- Messages
- 4,080
I always have and always will.
Hebrews 3:4 For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything.
