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Churches greatest threat

Another question I might ask the universalist: is Satan saved? will Jezebel enter into the kingdom of God? will the anti-christ worship God?

if you answer yes to any of those questions, then you should know that you are not a christian but you have invented your own religion loosely based on christianity.
 
Hell isn't eternal, as it is eventually thrown into the Lake of Fire. (along with anyone who's name isn't in the Book of Life). Rev 20:14;
So it doesn't really matter if Hades is eternal or not. The punishment is.

The Unitarian view that everyone is going to heaven (because Jesus died for the sins of the whole world 1 Jn 2:2; ) conflicts with so many other scriptures
it is pretty easy to dismiss. Jesus did die for the sins of the whole world, and there is no man who can't get saved by Jesus.
But just because Jesus made it possible for for all men to be saved, doesn't mean all men will be saved. First and foremost belief in Him is required.
Matt 7:13-14; seems to indicate most people won't make it to heaven. The disciples ask Jesus will many be saved in Luke 13:23;
His answer is in Luke 13:24-27;
 
I missed the greatest threat in the last 5 or more post?!!
If the church today would wake up and....
Not just talk about Jesus, but welcome Jesus to do His ministy in power!
Take the great commission seriously!
People not just being spectators at a performance during worship, but they are participants who celebrate the presence of Jesus.
Accept that spiritual gifs still exist!
Equip the people with the sword of the Spirit and with prayer.
Shelter the hurting instead of shunning them.
Accept the miraculous power of healing!
A place where the Word of God is released in the lives of people.
Maybe...just maybe we will see our churches come alive again! Get connected to the people's hearts like Jesus did!
 
Amen Grace,my apologies for diverting the conversation.
Taylor I apologize for not responding but I feel it inappropriate to further divert this thread.
 
Greetings,
In he early Church times, two great threats were evident from Paul's writing and backed up by 'historians' of the day.

They worked hand in hand. One was heresy most commonly those Judaizing the Church if possible though not confined to that, for there were others who perverted the truth for gain and money, for men-seeking and for ways to make allowance for immorality and lewdness, with no doubt quite a few others. The motives often were either in opposition to what was turning the world upside down, attracting many away from the established religions and power structures or like mentioned, for self gain and men -pleasing.
So, the Apostle Paul, call and set apart to suffer for Christ, did not faint at this, but rather the effect that such enmity was and could cause, namely the falling away from the Faith once received.
So great was the persecution and so imminent and painful that the temptation to deny the Lord was very real. All you had to do was agree to a different Gospel and you'd be 'safe' from man - which was an easy out of severe treatment ending in horrific death to the amusement of onlookers and to the thrill of the bloodthirsty - or you might have to completely change religions, or like Daniel, bow and worship a false god, usually including a man (or woman). In the western world we know little to nothing about what it is to suffer for the name of the LORD and do do so, faithfully.

The two enemies were and are much the same today, the faith of the Church being the target.
Let us recall the Garden and the effect of deception and temptation there, the ultimate questioning of God's Word and the resulting falling away, for which God sent forth His Son that where sin entered by one, Life could and would enter and be redeemed unto a lost and needing world. Where sin abounded, grace much more abounded and continues even now for all that will believe and follow on, striving, running, walking, enduring until the end.
We talk about Faith and toss ideas around and basically belittle it often without either maning to or realising it, but the very fact of that grip and attitude upon our 'lifeline' being or waxing cold and weak, to the point of disregard, is the winning blow being meted out (if it were possible) upon a divided body we call the Church.
All the points mentioned so far in this thread are valid in their place and are indeed symptoms of a dis-ease that appears to be taking over the Church, again, if possible, and yet, it is our Faith that is the vital and needful thing that is going to be increasingly pressurized and set upon for once we lose faith there is no hope, where there is no hope then why should we continue to press on, to "press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus"?

Faith is not what I believe or you believe or they believe or we believe (as important we might like to think of such things. It is the stuff that pleases God and that He knows us by, the stuff that, like Job, when Satan comes before God and accuses you and says, 'let me strip him of everything and cover him is horrid boils and hell deny you and curse you' that then the LORD will know that you won't for your faith is alive, not dead and healed into and with Him.

Let us re-examine and ask of God, That giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not;( and it shall be given him) what faith is and to walk circumspectly, not as fools, redeeming the time and not despairing nor being dismayed, nor intimidated, nor wavering, nor doubtful, nor weary in doing well, for great is our reward and the glory that is to be revealed, press on, press on.

And don't forget, do all things in Love.

Matthew 24:1-14
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming,(my edit: notice they asked the sign of His coming and yet He was still with them!) and of the end of the world? 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them,Take heed that no man deceive you. 5For many shall come in My name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake.10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Bless you ....><>
 
What is Liberal/Progressive Theologies?
:oops: If you don't know or don't sees a difference between Liberal and Conservative Christians, then I suggest you research it rather than give you my interpretation. This will include a study on the difference between Liberal and Mainline Protestantism, and then, you can make your own determination.:)
 
I find that interestingly true. Is that the same thing as complacency do you think?

It is hard for a rich man to get saved because they don't feel the need. Comfortable Christians lack motivation. Pain is a great motivator.
 
It is hard for a rich man to get saved because they don't feel the need. Comfortable Christians lack motivation. Pain is a great motivator.
That may be true, Jesus did say that it would be harder for camel to go through the eye of a needle that a rich man to get into heaven, but I am not sure that is always the case. We love God because he loved us first. I find that there are many types of pain that drive a man to God, whether he be rich or poor. A church that is already established is threatened mostly by the lack of Bible knowledge and complacency.
 
A church that is already established is threatened mostly by the lack of Bible knowledge and complacency.

Add to that FEAR, which Jesus emphasized to his apostles not to do. It cancels faith, leaving believers powerless. Fear not. It can be so subtle, creeping in unawares. Powerless prayers exhibit fear that God might not hear it, or answer it, so many will pray "if it be thy will" as a backup for an apparently unanswered prayer. Few Christians will pray as ought to, fewer with the confidence of even the prophet Micah giving hope to his destroyed nation Israel. Micah 7:7 (KJV)
7 Therefore I will look unto the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation: my God will hear me.
The Lord Jesus will do that for restored Israel, already doing that for the children of God in Christ Jesus.

My God will hear me, does hear me, because I will pray to the Farther in Jesus' name as he commanded me. Fear says "I hope God hears me." Fear not, go to God with boldness, up to his throne in prayer.
 
I am not sure that a truly rich man can even enter Heaven. How can a man be born-again if he is hoarding wealth? I don't see how the two are compatible.

Fear... sometimes i think the opposite. No one in the church is scared of God. No one preaches the wrath of God and the fear of God anymore, How can anyone be saved unless they fear God? "The fear of the Lord if the beginning of knowledge".
 
@TaylorDonBarret You have to make a choice in your heart to stop hoarding wealth before that action takes place, right? The rich man "went away sorrowful" because he realized he'd have to give it up, and when faced with that choice, that's the moment when he realized he valued his things more than eternal life. So a rich man can repent... I just don't think he can stay rich in the worldly sense for very long, lol.

Hosea 4:6 is pretty a succinct answer to this question. I think if we spent more time on our walk with Christ instead of anything and everything else, we would have the faith, virtue and knowledge to defeat the vast majority of the trials we face... we just don't recognize them for what they are and don't even bother fighting back.
 
I am not sure that a truly rich man can even enter Heaven. How can a man be born-again if he is hoarding wealth? I don't see how the two are compatible.
That may be a fare statement for some, but you can't make a blanket statement for every rich man.
  • Only God knows what is in a man's heart.
  • How do you know that all rich men hoard?
  • What classifies a man as being rich, the government?
  • Does that mean that no "rich man" can be a true Christian?
  • Does that mean that no rich Christian tithes?
  • What if they tithe 10% of their wealth? That is more than the national average, what is enough?
 
I know satan is the greatest threat to the church, but in what way do you believe is his greatest strategy?

I believe satan wants a dead church. I comfortable, self sufficient peaceful church!
How do we spot a dead church?
Do they ignore the Holy Spirit?
Is there lack of Godly leadership?
Do they value reputation over reality?
Is there a growth in number without the growth of the people?
How do we eleminate the spirit of religion in ourselves and our church?

#1 Lack of knowledge of Jesus, His gospel and relationship with Him
# 2 Failure to return to their first love Revelation 2:4-5
We tend to look out to the external when the issue is internal
 
I am not sure that a truly rich man can even enter Heaven. How can a man be born-again if he is hoarding wealth? I don't see how the two are compatible.

Fear... sometimes i think the opposite. No one in the church is scared of God. No one preaches the wrath of God and the fear of God anymore, How can anyone be saved unless they fear God? "The fear of the Lord if the beginning of knowledge".
That word fear is used two different ways in the Bible, but today one way. Phobeos fear meant for instance you knew the king's prince was a madman that killed anyone that even looked at him. The result is his subjects fleeing in terror for being afraid of senseless execution, hiding in their homes under covers trembling while he rides past. The other fear is used for "awesome reverence", such as when Solomon and company stayed in the presence of God moving into the Temple, all worshiping, blessed even though overwhelmed at the majesty of him. God has show a tendency to approach man with intent of friendship out of his love for man. He sometimes must deal with man in ways that cause men to hide, but with God standing there like in the Garden. When found to be sinners, Adam and Eve hid from God. They knew about the death warning. But how did God handle that? He came along walking in the garden, Adam and Eve hearing his voice. God was calm, simply asking "Adam, where are you?" Of course he knew, but he was allowing Adam some dignity. Have you ever hidden from someone while wishing you had done something better? A child has got up in the night and consumed the wonderful birthday cake intended for Mom. He resorts to hiding in a closet. The family is concerned about the child more than the cake. When discovered he is embarrassed over the cake, eventually ashamed for hiding, hearing Mom's cry, coming out of hiding. So what happened between God and our first couple? Words. A sentence according to the one law, yet coupled with a promise, and for millennia afterwards continued to redeem his mankind. God doesn't want to be alienated from man over men being afraid of him. He wants awesome reverence, the highest respect, our worship, not making us fold up in a panic attack in his presence.

John 15:13-15 (KJV)
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.


Be God's friend, but don't take him for granted. Our earthly friendships survive by investing care and respect in someone, receiving the same back on a long term basis. A friend of mine occasionally comes in through a back door, will be found sitting in my favorite recliner, his presence not known until we walk in. It's fine. He'll say something for my wife's benefit, "It's me, didn't want to wake ya'll up. I've got the coffee ready.". He's like a brother. My relationship with God is similar, but when I enter his presence I worship, adore, be like a little child when his loving daddy comes home from work, not fearing, cowering, or worrying he might be beaten. I am always very happy when God comes by. He's always welcome, and he always welcomes me. I know that God knows there is no wrath between us because he is on record about that. That's how I fear God.
 
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