Tongues

[RJ]

On the Day of Pentecost these languages are understood by many that were gathering. Some mocked?!? I see this expressiong of tongues as only one of many uses by the Holy Spirit.
I Acts 10 when the Holy Spirit was given to the Gentiles they also spoke in tongues just as the Jewish group did. Scriptures do not say that they were known languages. Peter preached to them in a known tongue, the Gentiles were not preaching in tongues.
Some teach that tongues are to evangalize the unbelieving Jews but in this case the Gentiles are also included in its use. In the Gentiles case it was to show the Jews that they had received the Holy Spirit.

One common thing that I see in these two cases..."we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God" "Magnifying God. So tongues enables us to praise, extol and glorify (magnify) God.

Tongues goes far beyond a one time purpose that God used to set up the church...and then discontinued.

Grace, will you give me an honest answer to two Questions?:

• Have you ever personally or heard someone speak tongues in your church?
• If yes, was there an interpreter each time?

 

[B-A-C]

Grace, will you give me an honest answer to two Questions?:

• Have you ever personally or heard someone speak tongues in your church?
• If yes, was there an interpreter each time?

I have heard tongues, literally thousands of times in different churches.
As for if there is always an interpreter, the answer is no. But as @Grace said, there are two ways tongues are used.
The first way usually doesn't happen every single service. When it does happen it's normally between two worship songs or sometimes at the very end of worship.
When this person speaks out in tongues, everything gets quiet and the music stops. They usually speak out very loudly and the whole congregation hears them.
Usually within a minute or so someone else will give an interpretation. Now it has happened once or twice in this situation where no interpretation was given.
This is the type 1 Cor 14:26-27; is talking about
Perhaps they were mistaken and shouldn't have spoken out in tongues. But it could also be the interpreter was afraid to speak.
I have a lot less experience with visions but once a man said he saw a vision after someone spoke out in tongues. He said he saw a dove
hovering over a mans head, as if he was waiting for the man to interpret, but he never did. So after a few moments the dove hovered over another man
for a few moments, but he didn't interpret either. Finally the dove hovered over a third man and he interpreted. Now some will say this is just spiritual
mumbo-jumbo, but if it really was a vision from God, it might explain why sometimes tongues are never interpreted.

The second and much more common way is also normally done during worship, however it is usually done much more quietly. It rarely is just one person,
But you hear several people speaking or singing in tongues, Kind of softly in personal prayer. Generally only the people sitting right next to them can hear them.
This isn't done to edify the church. It's simply personal communication with God.
This is the type the verses below are talking about.

Rom 8:26; In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
Rom 8:27; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

1 Cor 14:1; Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
1 Cor 14:2; For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.
1 Cor 14:3; But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.
1 Cor 14:4; One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.

Eph 6:18; With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,

1 Cor 13:1; If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

As @Grace mentioned, there is no interpreter mentioned for Cornelius and his men in Acts 10 or the disciples at Ephesus in Acts 19.
Interpretation isn't required for personal prayer between you and God. He doesn't need an interpreter to understand you.

 

[Grace]

That is fine, so you pray for interpretation for each of these prayers and you get it, right?
Look, I agree that tongues is definitely one of God's spiritual gifts, but I stand by the point that , anytime, with out interpretation, no matter when it is done, it is not edifying the church, which includes you!

That is your interpretation and point! Again I believe tongues in a church gathering should be interpreted. But you have yet to answer my questions about Acts 2, 10 and 19.
Here is another question...
Do you believe when Paul says "praying in the spirit" that he is talking about tongues?

 

[RJ]

As for if there is always an interpreter, the answer is no. But as @Grace said, there are two ways tongues are used.
The first way usually doesn't happen every single service. When it does happen it's normally between two worship songs or sometimes at the very end of worship.
When this person speaks out in tongues, everything gets quiet and the music stops. They usually speak out very loudly and the whole congregation hears them.
Usually within a minute or so someone else will give an interpretation. Now it has happened once or twice in this situation where no interpretation was given.
This is the type 1 Cor 14:26-27; is talking about

I stand by what Paul said. I am not concerned what you do in private. But, if any other can hear, it is must be interpreted or don't do it; it would be better to prophesy in order to build up the church. Other than this, anyone arguing differently, is self-edifying at best and babbling at worst.

 

[Grace]

Grace, will you give me an honest answer to two Questions?:

• Have you ever personally or heard someone speak tongues in your church?
• If yes, was there an interpreter each time?

I honestly answer all questions! Yes, I have heard tongues in my church! Yes, there has always been an interpretation! I myself do not feel like I have the ministry gift (to the congregation) of tongues, so personally I have not spoke in tongues in church unless it is like 1 Cor. 14:28 says..I keep it between God and myself, which is prayer.

 

[RJ]

That is your interpretation and point! Again I believe tongues in a church gathering should be interpreted. But you have yet to answer my questions about Acts 2, 10 and 19.
Here is another question...
Do you believe when Paul says "praying in the spirit" that he is talking about tongues?

Praying in the Spirit is mentioned three times in Scripture. 1 Corinthians 14:15 says, “So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.” Ephesians 6:18 says, “And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.” Jude 20 says, “But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit.” So, what exactly does it mean to pray in the Spirit?

The Greek word translated “pray in” can have several different meanings. It can mean “by means of,” “with the help of,” “in the sphere of,” and “in connection to.” Praying in the Spirit does not refer to the words we are saying. Rather, it refers to how we are praying. Praying in the Spirit is praying according to the Spirit’s leading. It is praying for things the Spirit leads us to pray for. Romans 8:26 tells us, “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.”

Some, based on 1 Corinthians 14:15, equate praying in the Spirit with praying in tongues. Discussing the gift of tongues, Paul mentions “pray with my spirit.” 1 corinthians14:14 states that when a person prays in tongues, he does not know what he is saying, since it is spoken in a language he does not know. Further, no one else can understand what is being said, unless there is an interpreter 1 Corinthians 14: 27-28. In Ephesians 6:18, Paul instructs us to “pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests.” How are we to pray with all kinds of prayers and requests and pray for the saints, if no one, including the person praying, understands what is being said? Therefore, praying in the Spirit should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will, not as praying in tongues.

 

[Grace]

Praying in the Spirit is mentioned three times in Scripture. 1 Corinthians 14:15 says, “So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.” Ephesians 6:18 says, “And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.” Jude 20 says, “But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit.” So, what exactly does it mean to pray in the Spirit?

The Greek word translated “pray in” can have several different meanings. It can mean “by means of,” “with the help of,” “in the sphere of,” and “in connection to.” Praying in the Spirit does not refer to the words we are saying. Rather, it refers to how we are praying. Praying in the Spirit is praying according to the Spirit’s leading. It is praying for things the Spirit leads us to pray for. Romans 8:26 tells us, “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.”

Some, based on 1 Corinthians 14:15, equate praying in the Spirit with praying in tongues. Discussing the gift of tongues, Paul mentions “pray with my spirit.” 1 corinthians14:14 states that when a person prays in tongues, he does not know what he is saying, since it is spoken in a language he does not know. Further, no one else can understand what is being said, unless there is an interpreter 1 Corinthians 14: 27-28. In Ephesians 6:18, Paul instructs us to “pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests.” How are we to pray with all kinds of prayers and requests and pray for the saints, if no one, including the person praying, understands what is being said? Therefore, praying in the Spirit should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will, not as praying in tongues.

I will agree that whether a person prays with understanding or in tongues (without understanding) it is prompted by the Holy Spirit. Sometimes when I pray in the spirit, thoughts will come to mind and as I understand them I pray them in English.
But in context of 1 Cor. 14 I believe he is talking about tongues when he says "praying in the spirit" "praying in tongues" "my spirit prayeth" "sing with the spirit" "bless with the spirit."

Nowhere in 1 Cor. 14 does it say it is a BAD thing to edify yourself (build yourself up in your spirit man). Jude tells us to edify ourselves by praying in the spirit.
1 Cor. 14:28 tells you to keep tongues between you and God and not speak it out loud without an interpretation. But nowhere does it say that you can not "pray in tongue/in the spirit" in church...just not out loud unless it is interpreted.
I also agree with BAC about some just will not step out with the interpretation.

 

[RJ]

I will agree that whether a person prays with understanding or in tongues (without understanding) it is prompted by the Holy Spirit. Sometimes when I pray in the spirit, thoughts will come to mind and as I understand them I pray them in English.
But in context of 1 Cor. 14 I believe he is talking about tongues when he says "praying in the spirit" "praying in tongues" "my spirit prayeth" "sing with the spirit" "bless with the spirit."

Nowhere in 1 Cor. 14 does it say it is a BAD thing to edify yourself (build yourself up in your spirit man). Jude tells us to edify ourselves by praying in the spirit.
1 Cor. 14:28 tells you to keep tongues between you and God and not speak it out loud without an interpretation. But nowhere does it say that you can not "pray in tongue/in the spirit" in church...just not out loud unless it is interpreted.
I also agree with BAC about some just will not step out with the interpretation.

So be it with you Grace and B-A-C, may God bless you both with your knowledge and lead you into all truth!

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

a few months back i received The Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues - but i doubted whether the tongues part of it was real. (i knew the Spirit part was real - i felt it)
later on that day something happened that greatly discouraged me and since then i have considered the tongues i spoke in to have just been a product of my own making.
but this thread has been a great encouragement. I just prayed in tongues for the first time since then and i have a feeling that it was super helpful.
just to clarify, from some of you who do pray in tongues, its basically "gibberish" that flows out very smoothly and gracefully? right? it sort of feels like your speaking a different language that you dont know but at the same time you have no idea what your saying ?

 

[Dovegiven]

I stand by what Paul said. I am not concerned what you do in private. But, if any other can hear, it is must be interpreted or don't do it; it would be better to prophesy in order to build up the church. Other than this, anyone arguing differently, is self-edifying at best and babbling at worst.

Did you consider my reference to the 120 disciples at Pentecost? All spoke in unknown tongues to thousands of feast attendees right at the Temple. There were no interpreters, yet the hearers understood those tongues in every dialect represented there. Some mocked them saying they were drunk on wine. But the Holy Spirit gave the messages to be received by the willing hearers.

It is the congregational gift of prophecy by unknown tongues that requires an interpreter. What those 120 had was an anointing, not in a congregation of church-goers, but in witnessing to a crowd in the courtyard. Those 120 were mightily edified that day, and so were 3,000 others edified to the point of being saved.

When a congregation breaks out singing praises in tongues, all individuals doing that are edified, which is a good thing, and it's "catching", even visitors often yielding their mouths to join in. I've watched mostly men that don't sing along in hymns, standing there holding the hymnal up, but unleash singling in tongues when the whole congregation is engaged in that. It's good to hear men's voices join the women. It's amazing how beautiful that singing is compared to going through stanza 1, 3 and 4, which often serves as a "warmup" for intense worship.

In a manner of speaking that exercise of tongues without an interpreter is more of a congregational prayer, the utterance given by the Holy Spirit to all at once.

 

[RJ]

There were no interpreters, yet the hearers understood those tongues in every dialect represented there

That is right, there were no interpreters because tongues were spoken in native tongues of those there. SO, what is your point about what Paul said about the use of Tongues?

When a congregation breaks out singing praises in tongues, all individuals doing that are edified, which is a good thing

Paul said no it is not a good thing unless everyone knows what is being said...you are ignoring what Paul said about tongues.

 

[Grace]

When I started researching tongues to get a better understanding of this manifestation of the Holy Spirit. I found it interesting that it is unique to the NT believer. Speaking in tongues does not occur anywhere in the Bible before Christ Crucifixion.

The Bible mentions that tongues is given for a sign for the unbeliever. We must not limit tongues to just this use, because the Bible does not! When tongues is used in a public use it should always be accompnied with an interpretation for the sake of the unlearned (1 Cor. 14:23).

Tongues provide a sign to unbelieving Israel in Acts 2 because it was foretold by the prophet Isaiah. Three thousand Jewish believers were saved and the church began. But Paul taught that the gift had various other purposes besides this one.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Grace and DoveGiven,

would either of you be willing to record yourself praying in tongues and posting it up for us to listen to (or just sending it to me in a private message?)

 

[Grace]

Grace and DoveGiven,

would either of you be willing to record yourself praying in tongues and posting it up for us to listen to (or just sending it to me in a private message?)

...and what purpose would this serve?

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

...and what purpose would this serve?

well if you look at my previous post i was asking about tongues because i feel that i have been given the ability to pray in them but i would like to hear what it sounds like from someone else to see if what i am doing is similar.

 

[Grace]

well if you look at my previous post i was asking about tongues because i feel that i have been given the ability to pray in them but i would like to hear what it sounds like from someone else to see if what i am doing is similar.

Every ones tongue is different. Even when I pray in tongues it changes from time to time.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

ok. can you describe what it feels like, what it sounds like, and what the experience is like?

 

[Grace]

ok. can you describe what it feels like, what it sounds like, and what the experience is like?

I sent you a private message. It would be hard to put into words...

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

ok great, i havent received it yet so i will wait for it.

 

[Grace]

So what are your thoughts on the response to tongues on the Day of Pentecost? Some of the crowd thought that they were drunk!