Instant Sanctification vs on-going process

[B-A-C]

It's interesting that we've had so many discussions about predestination and once-saved always-saved and Calvinist points of view about these things.
Something that has been touched on a few times, but I feel never really studied here is the question of "instant sanctification" vs "sanctification as an on-going process".
This seems to be more of a Wesleyan/Armenian/Pentecostal point of view, but it's possible there are more?

The men behind the formation of Pentecostals (mostly Assembly of God) who had come to the conclusion that holiness or sanctification was not a second blessing or a definite experience but instead a lifelong process. This idea of progressive sanctification was believed by many within the Assemblies of God; however, there were adherents who still held to the theology of the holiness movement.

The original language on sanctification in the Fundamental Truths was a compromise between Wesleyan and non-Wesleyan members which allowed the two doctrines to coexist. Under the heading "Entire Sanctification, The Goal For All Believers", it read, "Entire sanctification is the will of God for all believers, and should be earnestly pursued by walking in obedience to God's Word". The term "entire sanctification" is distinctly Wesleyan, but the statement actually called "for an ongoing, process of obedience in reliance on, and cooperation with the Holy Ghost".

In 1961, the General Council revised the statement significantly, giving it its current form. It eliminated some of the Wesleyan language, such as "entire". Stanley M. Horton, who served on the revision committee, stated that the committee "... felt that the word entire was ambiguous because we were using it with a different meaning than that promoted by holiness Pentecostals who taught a second definite work". While the current statement does represent the Pentecostals's position more accurately, the denomination's teaching on sanctification remains ambiguous.

This is slightly different from the "holiness movement". Link below posted with Chad's permission.
Holiness movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On one hand we have quite a few verses like...
Php 2:12; Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
1 Pet 4:18; AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?

It seems that Paul never considered himself "already there" but was always speaking as if he was striving to get there. Not that he wasn't saved, but rather still in the sanctification process.
1 Cor 9:27; but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
John 17:19; For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.
Rom 15:16; to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, so that my offering of the Gentiles may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor 9:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1 Cor 9:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God
1 Cor 6:11; Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
It seems the process of sanctification involves being willing to no longer want to sin.

1 Pet 1:2; according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

To some this seems to be a foreign idea that effort upon our part is required for sanctification.

 

[B-A-C]

Over 100 times in the New testament, we see phrases like "might be" or "may be" or "could be" as opposed to "already are".

Matt 5:45; John 3:21; John 5:34; John 16:1; John 17:19; Acts 8:22; 1 Cor 5:5; 1 Cor 10:33; 2 Tim 3:17; James 1:4;
John 3:17; Rom 8:4; Gal 2:2; Gal 3:22; etc...

In the epistles Paul and the other disciples speak of "striving", "struggling", running a race, walking in the Spirit, not practicing sin.

Many will say God knows the future and He knows all the sins you're going to commit and you are already forgiven for them.
It may be that God knows the future (I don't doubt it) but the Bible says we are forgiven for the sins that we ask forgiveness for and repent of.

Paul said he took up his cross "daily" not just one time. ( 1 Cor 15:31; )

Php 3:12; Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

 

[B-A-C]

I see many verses in the Bible that talk about this process of progression.

We are being built up.
1 Pet 2:5; you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
Col 2:7; having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
Eph 2:22; in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

We are being tested.
1 Pet 1:7; so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

We are being tempted.
Jas 1:13; Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

We are being renewed.
Col 3:10; and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him--
2 Cor 4:16; Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.

2 Cor 2:15; For we are a fragrance of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing;
1 Cor 1:18; For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Some people are even in the process of "being" saved.

2 Tim 2:21; Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.
1 Cor 9:27; but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

God/Holy Spirit will help us become cleansed and sanctified, but part of the effort comes from ourselves. We can do nothing without Him, but
He doesn't force us to do anything we aren't willing to do.

We are being made holy.
Heb 10:14; For by that one offering He forever made perfect those who are being made holy.

Some of us are in the process of being transformed, of being renewed.
Rom 12:2; And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
Tit 3:5; He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

Again, this is a daily walk, a daily process. Not a "one time" thing.
Luke 9:23; And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

Paul understood this daily process.
1 Cor 15:31' I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

2 Thes 2:13; But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

1 Pet 1:2; according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
Notice the verses above don't say "the sanctified work" as in "already accomplished".

Luke13:24; "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
1 Tim 4:10; For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
1 Cor 3:9; For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.
3 Jn 1:8; Therefore we ought to support such men, so that we may be fellow workers with the truth.

Why all this talk about being tested, striving, working, cleansing and dying daily?

Rom 6:19; I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
1Thes 4:3; For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality;

Heb 12:14; Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

 

[james1523]

The common mistake, is to interpret "were sanctified" in Scripture as "sanctification complete, no more sanctification required".
Similarly, "were saved", is often interpreted as "no more salvation required" which is not true.
It is both "were saved", and "being saved".
"were saved" is when the Holy Spirit entered our spirit for the first time.
"being saved" is when Christ is growing in us day by day.
Salvation is not complete until we look like Christ in every aspect.
Salvation is to be conformed to Christ's image (Rom 8:29).

 

[Barny]

Hi B-A-C,

You quoted many scriptures, but none of them supported the claim of sanctification being a gradual "process".

It was Christ's sacrifice that sanctified us.
Heb 10:10
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The sanctification by a gradual "process" doctrine, contradicts scripture and implies that Christ's sacrifice failed to complete our sanctification.

 

[DHC]

Php 3:12; Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

Hello B-A-C.

Reading your thread on the topic of sanctification, I noticed the following idea that you presented.

It seems that Paul never considered himself "already there" but was always speaking as if he
was striving to get there.

You are definitely promoting the concept that Paul was not entirely sure that he was saved.
The super apostle, Paul the evangelist to the Gentiles, appointed by Jesus Christ for the
evangelism of the Gentile world. Was personally not really sure whether he was saved and
seemed to be striving to attain that goal. A troubling thought at best to consider that Paul
was unsure whether he was saved?

You then quoted from Paul's letter to the Philippians, to reinforce this idea that Paul was
as yet insecure and not sure of his own salvation. Here is your quotation B-A-C that you cited
to support your understanding of this sanctification process.

Php 3:12; Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press
on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

When one reads these two lines it sure seems to be the case, Paul definitely was uncertain
about his future salvation. Paul was struggling, striving, even groping for that prize. Paul had
not yet attained it but if he continued that immense striving, who knows he might end up saved
in the end. Then again B-A-C how could anyone including Paul ever be sure, who knows
what the future holds. The chocolate wheel of sanctification, have a spin and see whether
it stops on salvation, if not then never mind. All comes down to probability I guess in the end.

This seems to be a rather puzzling ideology that you are proposing B-A-C. When I read
Paul's letter to the Philippians I gain a quite different impression of what Paul is actually
saying. I will add a few more lines to your quotation from Paul's letter to the Philippians
for the sake of context and clarity. Let's see if Paul is insecure and ignorant about his own
salvation, or even better has Paul pursued the path of sanctification correctly?

Philippians 3
13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting
what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the
prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect,
have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to
you; 16 however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.

Did you notice what Paul said B-A-C, '15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this
attitude'. Paul is not saying that he is unsure of his salvation B-A-C but that he holds onto a line
of thought, an attitude, that he considers to be very important. This line of thought is that he
has not yet reached the goal. Paul is maintaining the struggle even though he is fully assured of
his own salvation. Paul regards the attitude of not yet achieving the goal to be more beneficial,
much more productive in fact.

Paul is not insecure at all about his own salvation but lives his life as though he is not quite
there yet. This is Paul's attitude to sanctification, do not sit back and revel in one's own
certainty of salvation. Rather hold on to the attitude that we are not there yet!

You may have noticed Paul said 'as many as are perfect' which Paul knows to be the case.
Many of the Philippians were already perfect in Christ but they were reclining in that
security. Paul stirs them up into action by advising them to ponder the atititude that he
uses himself, I am not there yet Philippians and let's strive onward!

Let me know how you read this letter to Philippians B-A-C, I am fascinated by your theology.

 

[RJ]

Sanctification is a real transformation, not just the appearance of one. God calls His children to holiness, and graciously gives what He commands. The basic meaning of “sanctify” is to set apart to God, for His use. But God works in those whom He claims as His own to conform them “to the image of his Son” (Rom. 8:29).

I think that the answer to your question is both instant and continual sanctification.

• From the time that the Holy Spirit enters our heart God set us apart. Because of Jesus in us, he already calls us Holy, Blameless and Righteous. He sets us apart, give us to Jesus and jesus won't loose us.

John 6:35-40....35 And Jesus said to them, [SUB]y[/SUB] "I am the bread of life. [SUB]z[/SUB] He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never [SUB]a[/SUB] thirst. 36 [SUB]b[/SUB] "But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet [SUB]c[/SUB] do not believe. 37 [SUB]d[/SUB] "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and [SUB]e[/SUB] the one who comes to Me I will [SUB]1[/SUB] by no means cast out. 38 "For I have come down from heaven, [SUB]f[/SUB] not to do My own will, [SUB]g[/SUB] but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, [SUB]h[/SUB] that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, [SUB]i[/SUB] that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day

• Roman 8:29 ..."29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers"....I think this is a process of further conformity to be like Christ. There are plenty of scriptures that indicate that this is a life long process of perfection but, what happens if you die anytime during this process? You were already set apart the instant you were "Born Again"!

 

[LoveStory]

I was saved in youth group. The moment I received the Holy Spirit, I felt it!! It was an indescribable high like no other; in an instant I was transformed and sanctified. It is still so tangible to me. I am fully alive! I have never been the same!

 

[james1523]

Proof that sanctification is a process is by experience - I don't know that anyone can claim they are fully set apart for God and for His use. Many believers, especially when they are first saved, continue in their worldly pursuits with little regard for God's work or ministry. Therefore sanctification is a process and even the disciples went through this process as they grew and matured in Christ.

 

[RJ]

Proof that sanctification is a process is by experience - I don't know that anyone can claim they are fully set apart for God and for His use. Many believers, especially when they are first saved, continue in their worldly pursuits with little regard for God's work or ministry. Therefore sanctification is a process and even the disciples went through this process as they grew and matured in Christ.

• I believe in LoveStory's preceeding coment.
• If believers continue in their worldly pursuit with little regard for God's work or mimistry, as You say, only means to me they were not saved and not regenerated or "Born Again"!
• Our journey to obtain Christ's perfection never ends, so you can call that a process but, God sanctifies us the instant we receive his spirit in us.
• But, what has been sanctified? If we have received Christ, our spirit has been made alive, has been "reborn by an incorruptible seed. " (1 Peter 1 :23) The "new creation" in Christ is holy, righteous, incorruptible, sanctified
• 1 Corinthians 1:2
• 1 Corinthians 6:11
• Hebrews 10:10
• THe Bible can not be re-written.

 

[LoveStory]

Proof that sanctification is a process is by experience - I don't know that anyone can claim they are fully set apart for God and for His use. Many believers, especially when they are first saved, continue in their worldly pursuits with little regard for God's work or ministry. Therefore sanctification is a process and even the disciples went through this process as they grew and matured in Christ.

I know it may be hard to imagine, but the truth remains, I was radically saved. I was transformed and sanctified in an instant. I experienced what can only be explained as supernatural and miraculous. In the following days, the Holy Spirit led me to attempt a revival at my school where I went from popular to Bible toting nerd overnight. I was bullied emotionally and physically, but God gave me supernatural strength. Every morning, I prayed for a hedge of protection as I walked to school with my Bible. When I was sad or scared, I would pray and God gave me peace beyond human understanding.

One day after school, the hedge of angels I prayed for came to my rescue when kids tried to physically attack me. Before they could lay a finger on me, the Holy Spirit said, "don't be afraid, there are angels all around you, turn around and walk away," sure enough there were angels. I made it home safely.

Without a shadow of a doubt, God loves everyone because I feel God's love flow through me as I witness to the worst of the worst. Of course, the devil manifests like crazy through people to shut me down, but the Holy Spirit is quick to point out the spiritual battle for their soul. I'm assured seeds will grow and people will be saved long after I'm gone.

I'm thankful to God for everything, as I wouldn't be who I am today without the Holy Spirit because naturally, I am a very logical person.

The bottom line, God listens and supernatural things happen.

 

[james1523]

I know it may be hard to imagine, but the truth remains, I was radically saved. I was transformed and sanctified in an instant. I experienced what can only be explained as supernatural and miraculous. In the following days, the Holy Spirit led me to attempt a revival at my school where I went from popular to Bible toting nerd overnight. I was bullied emotionally and physically, but God gave me supernatural strength. Every morning, I prayed for a hedge of protection as I walked to school with my Bible. When I was sad or scared, I would pray and God gave me peace beyond human understanding.

One day after school, the hedge of angels I prayed for came to my rescue when kids tried to physically attack me. Before they could lay a finger on me, the Holy Spirit said, "don't be afraid, there are angels all around you, turn around and walk away," sure enough there were angels. I made it home safely.

Without a shadow of a doubt, God loves everyone because I feel God's love flow through me as I witness to the worst of the worst. Of course, the devil manifests like crazy through people to shut me down, but the Holy Spirit is quick to point out the spiritual battle for their soul. I'm assured seeds will grow and people will be saved long after I'm gone.

I'm thankful to God for everything, as I wouldn't be who I am today without the Holy Spirit because naturally, I am a very logical person.

The bottom line, God listens and supernatural things happen.

Don't worry I believe you and I'm very happy about your salvation and experiences . I believe in your instant sanctification. In your case God came to your rescue and saved you from harm. In other people's cases God's love allows them to experience the pain and suffering and grow from it. Now please don't take offense at this (because it's a very normal part of spiritual growth) but a fully sanctified person sees themself as nothing and Christ as everything (Gal 2:20, Phil 2:7), they humble themselves and do not like to speak about themselves. See Paul's attitude in 2 Cor 11:16-30. This is what sanctification is about - us being nothing and Christ being everything to us "all in all". You have had a wonderful salvation story, but I don't believe at the time that you were perfected, you were matured, you were complete - God had not finished with you yet. You were sanctified, and you are being sanctified. My point is when we are sanctified at salvation, God has not finished sanctifying us. Surely there were still wordly things in our being, but not necessarily sinful things - culture, habits, thoughts, political affiliations, attractions, etc. There is nothing worldly about a fully sanctified person. Many Christians may think when they're free from their anger problem (for example) they've arrived at maturity. God touches everything of the self in our being, including our habits, our preferences, our political views, until there is nothing of our self left, only Christ. A good example is patriotic Christians - some Christians are very patriotic, they don't drink or smoke and don't do bad things, but if you say anything bad about their favourite political leader or country they will get very upset. But a person who is truly sanctified is fully set apart from the world, and feels no particular attachment to any country or political system because their citizenship is in heaven, and their heart and thoughts are in heaven. The main reason God gives us the Holy Spirit is not for miracles but for our sanctification. What really matters is the things we experience day by day, that God uses to bring our self to nothing and to grow Christ in us. The more we lose our self the more of Christ we gain. It takes a lifetime of experiences to reach the level of sanctification attained by the apostle Paul, for example.

Remember the story of Peter, very zealous for God at first, but from his self not from the spirit. I once knew a woman who always gave prophetic words in church, by appearances she was very spiritual, everyone believed her, but things never happened as she said, in fact the complete opposite happened. This is an example of a person who is "on fire" for God, but who was not manifesting the Spirit but their natural heart/flesh. Then there was a pastor who was very strong in the Lord, preached many sermons, and saw people healed, yet was unfaithful to his wife, divorced, had to step down from church leadership. Again, another person who was not finished with the sanctification process. With spiritual things, including sanctification, they don't happen quickly or overnight. In a garden the plants which sprout up quickly and then die quickly are the weeds (or tares). The wheat grow steadily and slowly until reaching full maturity. When we feel and think we are strong in God, that is when we are weak, when we feel that we are weak, that is when God is strong.

 

[james1523]

• I believe in LoveStory's preceeding coment.
• If believers continue in their worldly pursuit with little regard for God's work or mimistry, as You say, only means to me they were not saved and not regenerated or "Born Again"!
• Our journey to obtain Christ's perfection never ends, so you can call that a process but, God sanctifies us the instant we receive his spirit in us.
• But, what has been sanctified? If we have received Christ, our spirit has been made alive, has been "reborn by an incorruptible seed. " (1 Peter 1 :23) The "new creation" in Christ is holy, righteous, incorruptible, sanctified
• 1 Corinthians 1:2
• 1 Corinthians 6:11
• Hebrews 10:10
• THe Bible can not be re-written.

You are right that our spirit has been sanctified. This is only part of the story, because humans are 3 parts in 1, like the Trinity. The sanctification process applies to our soul which is not completely sanctified at salvation. Our bodies will be sanctified too - when we are transformed and given new heavenly bodies. For this reason, if you see my post #4, I believe we are both sanctified in past and are being sanctified as a process. The only people who can claim to not need or have a very fast sanctification process is Jesus and probably others like John the Baptist. In Scripture the only condition for regeneration is faith in Christ. Ministry etc is the outworking of that faith, and is part of the sanctification process. Because human beings are spirit, soul and body, there is a three-fold sanctification and a three-fold salvation. People get confused because they confuse soul with spirit or spirit/soul with body. The OP is a bit confused because they think the spirit is versus the soul, when it is not. All three sanctifications happen but at different time stages and in different ways. I'll give you a tip - every "this versus that" argument is not either one or the other is true, but both are true. When Scripture reveals two different viewpoints concerning God and man, the answer is always both. The reason is that the Word of God is Jesus and Jesus is both man and God. Sometimes the authors of scripture write from man's point of view and sometimes write from God's point of view. When we write from Christ's point of view, we write from both God's and man's viewpoint and not one versus the other. All scriptural arguments can be broken down into two types 1) man versus God arguments, and 2) Christ versus other things arguments. The answer to 1) is both, the answer to 2) is Christ alone.

 

[LoveStory]

In other people's cases God's love allows them to experience the pain and suffering and grow from it.

Whatcha talkin' 'bout Willis? I'm not other people. God is in control. :shade:

Now please don't take offense at this (because it's a very normal part of spiritual growth) but a fully sanctified person sees themself as nothing and Christ as everything (Gal 2:20, Phil 2:7), they humble themselves and do not like to speak about themselves.

Remember my salvation experience/testimony where I received the Holy Spirit and thanked God for everything? Don't get it twisted.

(It's very relevant and helpful to this discussion.)

You have had a wonderful salvation story,

Amen! Thank you, Jesus!!!

but I don't believe at the time that you were perfected, you were matured, you were complete - God had not finished with you yet. You were sanctified, and you are being sanctified. My point is when we are sanctified at salvation, God has not finished sanctifying us.

I can't save myself, I can't sanctify myself, and I most definitely can't be perfect!

Nobody will be perfected or sanctified by their own doing and that wasn't my testimony. (See scripture below) :surrender:

Meet my source of all goodness, love, inspiration, and miracles --> the Holy Spirit. From whom I am completely and instantly sanctified!

Surely there were still wordly things in our being, but not necessarily sinful things - culture, habits, thoughts, political affiliations, attractions, etc.

Meet my Savior --> Jesus Christ.

There is nothing worldly about a fully sanctified person.

I'm not sure you understand. The Holy Spirit is what sanctifies or sets us apart unto salvation. It's a spiritual thing that can easily be described as full sanctification when experiencing a baptism of the Holy Spirit where spiritual gifts are involved (that confirm the baptism); such as, tongues; it doesn't mean one will never sin again. I feel STRONGLY MOVED to follow the Holy Spirit's leading. (See scriptures below.)

“I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate (Comforter, Encourager, Counselor), who will never leave you. He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it isn't looking for Him and doesn't recognize Him. But you know Him, because He lives with you now and later will be in you (John 14:16-17).

In baptism with the Holy Spirit, there is the impartation of power, which is what I believe I experienced.

"And now I will send the Holy Spirit, just as my Father promised. But stay here in the city until the Holy Spirit comes and fills you with power from heaven" (Luke 24:49)

“I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my
decrees” (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

The Holy Spirit is the same Holy Spirit that was the source of all inspiration and miracle working power both in Christ’s life and ministry.

Paul elaborates on this truth...
“For it has pleased [the Father] that all the divine fullness (the sum total of the divine perfection, powers, and attributes) should dwell in Him permanently” (Col 1:19).

He continues this thought in chapter two when he states,
“For in Him (Christ) the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature]. And you are in Him, made full and having come to fullness of life [in Christ you too are filled with the Godhead — Father, Son and Holy Spirit — and reach full spiritual stature]” (Col 2:9-10).

 

[Hekuran]

Isn't the question of the opening post attempting to pull apart things that Scripture always keeps together?

I find the analogy of being born/born again helpful:

On the day that I was born, I was born fully and completely human, a whole person.
Yet today, 40 year later, I have grown to be more mature and complete in my person. I am still (I hope) growing and maturing.

Something similar happens as we are born again. I don't understand why there needs to be much confusion or debate about this

 

[LoveStory]

You are right that our spirit has been sanctified. This is only part of the story, because humans are 3 parts in 1, like the Trinity. The sanctification process applies to our soul which is not completely sanctified at salvation. Our bodies will be sanctified too - when we are transformed and given new heavenly bodies. For this reason, if you see my post #4, I believe we are both sanctified in past and are being sanctified as a process. The only people who can claim to not need or have a very fast sanctification process is Jesus and probably others like John the Baptist. In Scripture the only condition for regeneration is faith in Christ. Ministry etc is the outworking of that faith, and is part of the sanctification process. Because human beings are spirit, soul and body, there is a three-fold sanctification and a three-fold salvation. People get confused because they confuse soul with spirit or spirit/soul with body. The OP is a bit confused because they think the spirit is versus the soul, when it is not. All three sanctifications happen but at different time stages and in different ways. I'll give you a tip - every "this versus that" argument is not either one or the other is true, but both are true. When Scripture reveals two different viewpoints concerning God and man, the answer is always both. The reason is that the Word of God is Jesus and Jesus is both man and God. Sometimes the authors of scripture write from man's point of view and sometimes write from God's point of view. When we write from Christ's point of view, we write from both God's and man's viewpoint and not one versus the other. All scriptural arguments can be broken down into two types 1) man versus God arguments, and 2) Christ versus other things arguments. The answer to 1) is both, the answer to 2) is Christ alone.

Let's look at the facts in the Bible...

the Bible teaches us that there is an encounter with the Holy Spirit that is clearly subsequent to salvation called the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Dr. R. A. Torrey, first head of the Moody Bible Institute has written: "It is evident that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is an operation of the Holy Spirit distinct from and additional to His regeneration work. A man may be regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and still not be baptized with the Holy Spirit. In regeneration, there is the impartation of life by the Spirit’s power and the one who receives it is saved; in the baptism with the Holy Spirit, there is the impartation of power, and the one who receives it is fitted for service…"

It is not God’s plan that man is merely born again by the power of the agency of the Holy Spirit. His desire is that men be fully filled with and controlled by the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit working in and through every aspect of man’s existence. Not only filled with, but immersed in, wholly consumed inside and out with the Holy Spirit.

They who are Christ’s have the Spirit of Christ, and the Holy Spirit resides in their hearts. Thus we see that all true born-again believers have the Holy Spirit. They have truly begun in the Spirit according to Galatians 3:3. All they have in the way of Christian vitality and experience is the work of the Holy Spirit.

As Chancellor Oral Roberts once said, "Let the Spirit of God fill us and refill us as individuals and the body of Christ with boldness and set our souls on fire for God. Open the door and invite the Holy Spirit into your life, yield yourself to Him every aspect of your life. And when you do there’s a miracle that bursts within you, there’s a miracle that lives and moves within your being. And every day of your life can be a miraculous visitation from God."

“For in Him (Christ) the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature]. And you are in Him, made full and having come to fullness of life [in Christ you too are filled with the Godhead — Father, Son and Holy Spirit — and reach full spiritual stature]” (Col 2:9-10).

“I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my
decrees” (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

“I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate (Comforter, Encourager, Counselor), who will never leave you. He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it isn't looking for Him and doesn't recognize Him. But you know Him, because He lives with you now and later will be in you (John 14:16-17).]

 

[LoveStory]

For anyone that wants to be baptized with the Holy Spirit and receive the FULLNESS of the Holy Spirit and impartation of power as described throughout the thread...

Firstly, discern whether you are Christian and not just a cultural one. If you are not sure and want to be right with God, then that is easy to remedy. Pray as follows:

Lord Jesus, I am deeply aware that my sins have separated me from you and from the eternal life which you have promised to those who believe. I repent of my sins and turn to you in faith for the salvation and forgiveness you won for me on the cross through the shedding of your blood even when I was yet a sinner and without merit before God. I surrender my life to you. Come into my heart, be the Lord of my Life. Be my Savior and my King. Live in me and through me so that I can truly represent you in my service to others in your Name. Amen.

Secondly, if the terminology, “baptism in/with the Holy Spirit”, creates a theological hurdle for you receiving the fullness of the Holy Spirit, understand that the Holy Spirit is not concerned about your theological beliefs on the Promise of the Father as much as He is looking for your sincere openess to His working through you. Surrender to His purposes.

Once this is settled in your mind, then pray to receive all that the Holy Spirit has for you and to be open to His working in and through your life (without restriction). In asking for the Holy Spirit to empower you (whether in a community setting or a personal one) come into the Father’s presence and ask (something like this):

Father, as your child in Jesus I desire to be totally an instrument for Your Kingdom to manifest through my life. I desire to receive your Promise of the Holy Spirit to those who believe. Jesus, my Savior and King, baptize me in the Holy Spirit so that the power of your resurrection will work in me and transform me according to your will. Holy Spirit, empower me and fill me to overflowing. I hold nothing back from you. Work your gifts in me and through me, all of me, so that the Father’s Kingdom may be manifested in and through my life. I ask this in Jesus’ mighty Name. Amen!

Now, begin praising and worshipping God with all your heart. Release yourself from all the inhibitions you have and raise your voice in song. Express those longings you have held in your heart for so long. As you sing and worship, release yourself to the Holy Spirit so that He can pray and worship through you.

 

[NetChaplain]

The men behind the formation of Pentecostals (mostly Assembly of God)

Hi BAC - Good subject and well supplied information. I'm with the understanding that Pentecostalism has its origin from, what many are not familiar with--the Azusa Street Revival in 1906, in which it was claimed that the supernatural gifts of the Spirit were "restarted."

After the passing of the Apostles and the canonizing of the Bible, there were no known records in the history of Christendom concerning the exercising of the gifts of the Spirit until this event.

"Pentecostalism emerged in the early 20th century among radical adherents of the Holiness movement, who were energized by revivalism and expectation for the imminent Second Coming of Christ. Believing that they were living in the end times, they expected God to spiritually renew the Christian Church thereby bringing to pass the restoration of spiritual gifts and the evangelization of the world. In 1900, Charles Parham, an American evangelist and faith healer, began teaching that speaking in tongues was the Bible evidence of Spirit baptism.

"The three-year-long Azusa Street Revival in Los Angeles, California, resulted in the spread of Pentecostalism throughout the United States and the rest of the world as visitors carried the Pentecostal experience back to their home churches or felt called to the mission field." Pentecostalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Concerning sanctification, Scripture's use of the term is never in the future tense because it is a single occurrence with permanent activity, same as everything that is godly at rebirth (1 Cor 1:30). The obvious misapplication of "sanctification" is in attempting to relate it with "conforming" (Rom. 8:29; 2 Cor 3:18), which is the only progressive-related work of God in the believer.

All else in salvation needs no reapplication and therefore is not progressive because the position of being in Christ does not admit in degrees, i.e. one is not any more saved now than he will be in heaven (concerning our spirit, not our body which is redeemed later - Rom. 8:23).

Hope I didn't share so much as to appear usurping.

God's blessings to the Families of the Saints, and God be blessed!

 

[LoveStory]

It's interesting that we've had so many discussions about predestination and once-saved always-saved and Calvinist points of view about these things.
Something that has been touched on a few times, but I feel never really studied here is the question of "instant sanctification" vs "sanctification as an on-going process".
This seems to be more of a Wesleyan/Armenian/Pentecostal point of view, but it's possible there are more?

The men behind the formation of Pentecostals (mostly Assembly of God) who had come to the conclusion that holiness or sanctification was not a second blessing or a definite experience but instead a lifelong process. This idea of progressive sanctification was believed by many within the Assemblies of God; however, there were adherents who still held to the theology of the holiness movement.

The original language on sanctification in the Fundamental Truths was a compromise between Wesleyan and non-Wesleyan members which allowed the two doctrines to coexist. Under the heading "Entire Sanctification, The Goal For All Believers", it read, "Entire sanctification is the will of God for all believers, and should be earnestly pursued by walking in obedience to God's Word". The term "entire sanctification" is distinctly Wesleyan, but the statement actually called "for an ongoing, process of obedience in reliance on, and cooperation with the Holy Ghost".

In 1961, the General Council revised the statement significantly, giving it its current form. It eliminated some of the Wesleyan language, such as "entire". Stanley M. Horton, who served on the revision committee, stated that the committee "... felt that the word entire was ambiguous because we were using it with a different meaning than that promoted by holiness Pentecostals who taught a second definite work". While the current statement does represent the Pentecostals's position more accurately, the denomination's teaching on sanctification remains ambiguous.

On one hand we have quite a few verses like...
Php 2:12; Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
1 Pet 4:18; AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?

It seems that Paul never considered himself "already there" but was always speaking as if he was striving to get there. Not that he wasn't saved, but rather still in the sanctification process.
1 Cor 9:27; but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
John 17:19; For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.
Rom 15:16; to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, so that my offering of the Gentiles may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor 9:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1 Cor 9:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God
1 Cor 6:11; Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
It seems the process of sanctification involves being willing to no longer want to sin.

1 Pet 1:2; according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

To some this seems to be a foreign idea that effort upon our part is required for sanctification.

The Bible is comprised of old covenant (law) and new covenant (grace). It's like you are drawn to law for some unknown reason to erroneously translate the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Bible describes law as death and grace as life (see scripture below). Mixing the two creates irreconcilable discrepancies. Why do that? Remember the unmerited favor of God of the new covenant? I challenge you to read the surrounding scripture while standing firm in BELIEF it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourself, it is the gift of God.

1 Cor 9:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1 Cor 9:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God

Jesus died especially for those unrighteous people. Make no mistake, when they cry out to Jesus for redemption on their deathbed, they WILL be received just the same as you and me. Love fulfilled the law. (Romans 13:9-10)

However, when God asks you why he should let you in the pearly gates, please don't tell God you did a bunch of wonderful things is his name because he WILL say he never knew you, and I'll be sad I won't get to meet you. ):

The correct answer is JESUS.

The New Covenant - A Ministration of the Spirit
"Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart"... (2 Corinthians 3:3) "Who also has made us able ministers of the new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministry of the Spirit be more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation be glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excels." (2 Corinthians 3:6-10)

 

[DHC]

Hi BAC - Good subject and well supplied information. I'm with the understanding that Pentecostalism has its origin from, what many are not familiar with--the Azusa Street Revival in 1906, in which it was claimed that the supernatural gifts of the Spirit were "restarted."

After the passing of the Apostles and the canonizing of the Bible, there were no known records in the history of Christendom concerning the exercising of the gifts of the Spirit until this event.

"Pentecostalism emerged in the early 20th century among radical adherents of the Holiness movement, who were energized by revivalism and expectation for the imminent Second Coming of Christ. Believing that they were living in the end times, they expected God to spiritually renew the Christian Church thereby bringing to pass the restoration of spiritual gifts and the evangelization of the world. In 1900, Charles Parham, an American evangelist and faith healer, began teaching that speaking in tongues was the Bible evidence of Spirit baptism.

"The three-year-long Azusa Street Revival in Los Angeles, California, resulted in the spread of Pentecostalism throughout the United States and the rest of the world as visitors carried the Pentecostal experience back to their home churches or felt called to the mission field." Pentecostalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hello NetChaplain.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit do appear way before the so called 'Azusa street revival in 1906'.

Anabaptists (extreme left-wing Protestants in 16th-century Germany), and among the Camisards (a radical Protestant peasant group from southern France) and Jansenists
(a Catholic reform movement) in 17th and 18th century France. The gift of tongues was also prolific among the Shakers, a celibate communal religious sect in the mid-18th
century United States. During the 19th century, an outburst of glossolalia and some instances of healing occurred, notably in the Scottish preacher Edward Irving's church
in London's Regent Square, among the Mormons, and among various groups of Holiness people in the mountains of Tennessee and North Carolina.
(Pentecostal Churches, Encyclopedia Britannica, 1979, vol 14, p31)

The next time any significant tongues-speaking movement arose within Christianity was in the late seventeenth century. A group of militant Protestants in the Cevennes region
of southern France began to prophesy, experience visions, and speak in tongues. The group, sometimes called the Cevennol prophets, are remembered for their political and
military activities, not their spiritual legacy. Most of their prophecies went unfulfilled. They were rabidly anti-Catholic, and advocated the use of armed force against the Catholic
church. Many of them were consequently persecuted and killed by Rome.
(Charismatic Chaos, John F. MacArthur, 1991, p. 234)

Anyone who is of the belief that there was some kind of revival of the gifts in 1906 would be mistaken. The gifts of the Holy Spirit
have been alive since the day of Pentecost. Whether or not church history records this to any extent is meaningless. The
scripture is the authority on these matters and not church history, who cares what the Catholic Church did during the last
thousand years or more.