Once your saved, are you always saved?

[Jonah]

I know the bible does say that you are permanantly accepted by Christ (My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one), But my Mum and her Cousin have both been through the same thing. They were involved in church when they were younger, but now my Mum seems so far away, she is always the start of an arguement, and it's hard for the whole family. I don't know the background to her younger church life so the chances are she was not saved in the first place. That is just an example anyway.

 

[B-A-C]

There has been a lot of debate about this here on the forums. To me personally it doesn't matter that much.
Maybe you can be saved and lose your salvation. (The verses you quoted above say Jesus will never leave us, but say nothing about us leaving him).
On the other hand, some will say that just means you were never saved in the first place, perhaps that answer is correct.

But either way, what matters is are you saved right now? It's never too late.
If God seems far away, guess who moved? It wasn't Him. I believe God loves to answer the prayer for salvation more than any other prayer.

2 Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1 Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1 Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[NetChaplain]

I know the bible does say that you are permanantly accepted by Christ (My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one), But my Mum and her Cousin have both been through the same thing. They were involved in church when they were younger, but now my Mum seems so far away, she is always the start of an arguement, and it's hard for the whole family. I don't know the background to her younger church life so the chances are she was not saved in the first place. That is just an example anyway.

Hi Jonah - The subject concerning the concept of whether or not one who has received salvation can loose it is secondarily significant only to the subject concerning receiving salvation. What one understands concerning the perpetuity of salvation reveals most of what they understand concerning salvation itself. Scripture is clear on truths concerning the receiving of salvation but is a bit obscure concerning its perpetuity due to the wording, thus understanding all the implications of the eternal salvation requires more study than that which is related to the receiving of it.

I believe the primary intention of salvation always involves being eternally redeemed, otherwise the entire foundation of Soteriology, being void of perpetuity, would be completely void of any value whatsoever. If one is not eternally saved, one is not saved, for redemption is never temporal due to the truth that their is only one type of salvation in this dispensation--"eternal salvation" (Heb 5:9).

Salvation was conditional in the prior dispensation (OT), thus the "forgiveness of sins" was revocable upon the breaking of the Covenant (Num 15:25-30), because it was a Covenant between the Father and man. In the present dispensation salvation is unconditional, thus forgiveness is "irrevocable" (Rom 11:29 - NKJV), because it is a Covenant between the Father and the Son, which is from where all Covenants originate; this is the "Everlasting Covenant" (Heb 13:20, 21) in Christ's "Blood" (Mat 26:28; Mar 14:24; Luk 22:20; 1 Cor 11:25; Heb 12:24).

Salvation in this dispensation solely involves regeneration (rebirth), thus the new life of one who is born again will definitely involve evidence of true godliness, because "it is God which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13); and I cannot conceive that self, anyone or anything can alter His work!

God's blessings to your Family!

 

[Jonah]

Thanks netChaplain, that was helpful and detailed

 

[DHC]

Hi Jonah - The subject concerning the concept of whether or not one who has received salvation can loose it is secondarily significant only to the subject concerning receiving salvation. What one understands concerning the perpetuity of salvation reveals most of what they understand concerning salvation itself. Scripture is clear on truths concerning the receiving of salvation but is a bit obscure concerning its perpetuity due to the wording, thus understanding all the implications of the eternal salvation requires more study than that which is related to the receiving of it.

I believe the primary intention of salvation always involves being eternally redeemed, otherwise the entire foundation of Soteriology, being void of perpetuity, would be completely void of any value whatsoever. If one is not eternally saved, one is not saved, for redemption is never temporal due to the truth that their is only one type of salvation in this dispensation--"eternal salvation" (Heb 5:9).

Salvation was conditional in the prior dispensation (OT), thus the "forgiveness of sins" was revocable upon the breaking of the Covenant (Num 15:25-30), because it was a Covenant between the Father and man. In the present dispensation salvation is unconditional, thus forgiveness is "irrevocable" (Rom 11:29 - NKJV), because it is a Covenant between the Father and the Son, which is from where all Covenants originate; this is the "Everlasting Covenant" (Heb 13:20, 21) in Christ's "Blood" (Mat 26:28; Mar 14:24; Luk 22:20; 1 Cor 11:25; Heb 12:24).

Salvation in this dispensation solely involves regeneration (rebirth), thus the new life of one who is born again will definitely involve evidence of true godliness, because "it is God which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13); and I cannot conceive that self, anyone or anything can alter His work!

God's blessings to your Family!

Hello Net Chaplain.

A very solid post that you submitted in reply to Jonah's 'Once your saved, are you always saved?'
In particular the following verse, which on the surface appears to logically argue that redemption
is eternal. It is the detail within the argument that you offered, that presents a problem.

I believe the primary intention of salvation always involves being eternally redeemed, otherwise
the entire foundation of Soteriology, being void of perpetuity, would be completely void of any
value whatsoever. If one is not eternally saved, one is not saved, for redemption is never temporal
due to the truth that their is only one type of salvation in this dispensation--
"eternal salvation" (Heb 5:9).

There does exist a caveat (specific stipulation) in the verse that you cited above, which undermines
your argument. First of all the quotation that you cited is not supporting the idea that you are
saved from the moment you believe. If you read the verse from the letter to the Hebrews carefully
you should notice the caveat.

Hebrews 5
9 And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of
eternal salvation

You omitted 'to all those who obey Him', this is the crucial caveat that in fact undermines
the more general idea your promoting, i.e, 'once saved always saved'. For the verse
strictly specifies that obedience to Jesus is required. Thus if you believe and obey, then
and only then, does Jesus become the source of eternal salvation.

Net Chaplain, the redemption that Christ offered is eternal but only to those who continuously
(endurance) hold to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. May I suggest you read the following verses.

Luke 8
13 Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word
with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their
way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.
15 But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart,
and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.

All the groups of people above believed, but only the last group held to ('hold it fast') the Word.

So may I suggest Net Chaplain that you choose another verse, as the verse from (Hebrews 5)
does not really support your argument.

 

[NetChaplain]

You omitted 'to all those who obey Him', this is the crucial caveat that in fact undermines
the more general idea your promoting, i.e, 'once saved always saved'. For the verse strictly specifies that obedience to Jesus is required. Thus if you believe and obey, then and only then, does Jesus become the source of eternal salvation.

Net Chaplain, the redemption that Christ offered is eternal but only to those who continuously
(endurance) hold to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Hi DHC - Good to hear from you! I believe Scripture teaches that obedience can be an evidence of salvation, but never its procurement, which comes only by Christ's obedience to the Cross. This is the difference between the OT Covenant (man's work) and the New Covenant (work of Christ using man).

Salvation is antecedent to obedience, for without the Spirit of God there can be nothing after the life of Christ in a person, esp. the obedience of believing in Christ.

 

[rag4aCrown]

Jesus hang on the cross for the entire world sins. Amen.
Every soul on earth has been saved; least the cross of Christ be in vain. Amen.
However, we still have been given choice in the matter; How do you want to be saved? eternal life or eternal damnation?
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Amen. The attitudes and mannerisms we have and abide by right now, will follow with us to the spiritual realm. Amen.
Jesus said, Fear no man, once they have killed there is nothing more they can do. But, Fear Him, once He has killed, has the power to cast into hell. Amen.

 

[james1523]

If a person is truly saved they cannot lose their salvation.
A truly saved person is a person who perpetually believes in Christ.
Anyone who says they have faith but seem to lose it, don't actually have true faith. Normally such people are under deception, having only mental acceptance or mental belief of certain doctrinal facts, but no personal experience of the Holy Spirit. I am sure that we all have family members or friends in that situation, or maybe we have been there ourselves, who appear right on the outside, but if we know their personal daily habits, may find they never pray, never read the Bible, and don't like to do anything which would indicate some element of the Holy Spirit inside of them.
When the Spirit comes to live inside a person, He makes them His permanent home, not a temporary dwelling.
When a person is truly saved, they will exhibit some kind of fruit to show that the Spirit lives in them - and going to church is not a fruit of the Spirit.
Salvation is not a once only experience, we need to be saved and renewed day by day. Most people who say they once were saved and now have lost their faith, probably think that salvation is a once only thing in the past, and think it's all over for them, and they never do anything towards salvation day by day.
In my own experience, the Spirit is praying all the time inside of me - I cannot help but pray, even when I don't want to. Even if am committing some terrible sin, the Spirit inside of me just wants to pray, it is very awkward, but it proves that my salvation is real and permanent.
Christianity teaches that the Spirit is like a gentleman, and he does our bidding, he comes when we want him to come, and leaves when we want him to leave.
But that is not the Holy Spirit, that is some timid and shy familiar spirit or demon. In my experience the Holy Spirit stays and doesn't leave, even if we are sinning, the Spirit makes us feel uneasy in the middle of our sin, the Spirit will come and say "don't do that", the Spirit is ruling us from within, like a King on the throne, even if we don't want to go, like Jonah, or Elijah, He will chase and bother us until we do, the Spirit is powerful, bold and Sovereign.

 

[NetChaplain]

How do you want to be saved? eternal life or eternal damnation?

Hi R4AC - I'm not clear concerning your above comment.

God's blessings to your Family!

 

[rag4aCrown]

I am saved to eternal life and hope that all else is as well. Amen.
What one carries within their hearts right now, will carry on; Amen. If one is bitter, hateful, negative, full of doubt, but yet say they are saved, one may want to put themselves in check and get on their knees. Amen.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. There is a lot of people sitting on the pew, that just love to stir up controversy, back bite, gossip, then be two faced about starting it. Amen. God knows all, sees all, hears all. He does not lead His children into battle blind folded. He never has and He never will. Amen.
Is your heart producing the fruits of the Spirit. Is good found on one hand and evil on the other. He tells us about this in His Word. Are we a sheep, or a goat? There is no hiding from God. Amen.
HE knows our heart. Amen.
Whether we live, or whether we die; we return to God, who does with us what He desires according to our works.
Faith without works is dead; as the body without the Spirit is dead. Amen.
Faith alone can not save us; we had better have works written beside our name. Amen. Faith IN God, believes God and His Word, and produces works according to the Word. Amen.
No greater love hath a man, then he that will lay down his life for a friend. Sometimes a friend is a complete stranger. Amen. Just as Jesus did, we are to do also.
Jesus is the example in which we are to follow in His steps. Amen. 1 Peter 2:21,22
All praise, honor, and glory be to God.

 

[RJ]

Here is a thread I started in 2009 on this subject:
"Can a saved person ever become unsaved?"


Though there has been much debate on the subject over the years, I believe that the Bible is very explicit on this point. In fact, the book of 1 John was written to this point: "These things I have written to you who believe in the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.(111 John 5:13/COLOR]." Notice that the Apostle says you now have eternal life. We don't get eternal life after we die... we have it right now, when we believe.

Now, let's follow this idea to its logical conclusion. If we know we have eternal life when we believe in Jesus, how long does eternal life last? Can you have eternal life for a year? A week? A day? If words mean anything at all, then eternal life must be eternal. It must last forever! Eternal life by definition cannot be lost.

Let's look at it another way. What sin is so big that Jesus' death could not atone for it? There is none that I know of (we'll exclude for the moment the passage of Mark 3:28-30, as it really doesn't apply here). Every sin that man can commit against God and man, even the most heinous was dealt with at the cross of Calvary. If this is so, then what sin can be so bad that it would cause God to "unforgive" that which He has already paid for? Romans 8:38-39 explicitly states this, saying "For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

I am a created thing. The verse above states that created things cannot separate us from the love of God, therefore I cannot separate myself from the love of God, either!
Also, in John 10:29, Jesus tells us "And I give eternal life to them; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." No one includes me! Notice the picture here. You are being held in Jesus' hand, and in the Father's hand. Cup one of your hands over the other, as you would hold a frightened bird. That is the way God holds onto you.

We believe as Christians that we are in a better position than before we were saved. Remember, there is nothing we can do to merit salvation, it's all a work of God. Also remember, God predestined us to our salvation (Eph 1:4). Would God make a mistake? No, I think the evidence clearly supports the view that your salvation is secure. That thought should be comforting in times of doubt.

Now, I don't want to mislead you. There are several passages which, when read alone, may lead you to believe that you could lose your salvation (Heb 6:5-6, etc.), but careful study can lead to conclusions from these verses that does not necessitate the idea of losing your salvation. Paul was addressing the saved about spies from the Temple (stating that they were Christians) that were among their midst and trying to get the saved to go to the Temple and participate in sacrifices. Paul was stating that it was impossible to "Fall Away"...essentially saying how can you fall away from a place that you have never been, i.e., these spies were not saved in the first place.

 

[RJ]

How do you fall away from this God?
Your Salvation Is Secure

John 6:35-40 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

• You will never hunger
• You will never thirst
• Jesus won't cast you out
• Jesus does the will of the father
• God wills Jesus not to loose you
• God wills Jesus to raise you up on your last day
• What more do you need?

 

[LoveStory]

I know the bible does say that you are permanantly accepted by Christ (My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one), But my Mum and her Cousin have both been through the same thing. They were involved in church when they were younger, but now my Mum seems so far away, she is always the start of an arguement, and it's hard for the whole family. I don't know the background to her younger church life so the chances are she was not saved in the first place. That is just an example anyway.

Yes, once you are saved, you are always saved. Believe.

Be prayerful, speak blessings over her, and love her the way God loves you, She'll come around.

Romans 8:38-39 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.