Not under the Law?

[B-A-C]

But, those who believe in Jesus are not under the law for righteousness. Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:24-25, Gal 5:18, 1 Tim 1:9 Rom 6:14.
This is the simplicity that is in Christ. Righteousness by faith, Rom 4:5.

Several of the verses you listed above talk about the Law of the Spirit. What is the Law of the Spirit to you?
What is the law of Grace to you?
Rom 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
Rom 8:4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Rom 5:20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

Justification and Salvation do not come through the Law. We cannot follow the law to the letter. We as sinful humans are simply unable to do so no matter how hard we try.

Rom 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
In the OT we had to follow the law to the letter. We could not deviate from it one bit.
Mat 5:18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
The good news is. Jesus fulfilled this for us. It's a good thing, because we can't even follow the letter of the law below.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

So we are unable to follow every "jot and tittle" (as King James puts it) of the letter of the law (as Rom 7:6) puts it.
So we are to follow the Spirit of the law, not the letter of the law. We are free from the letter of the law. The Spirit of the law says even though you can't possibly
live up to these requirements, here are the requirements you should try to obey.

Ahh... but we are unable to obey them. That's where the Spirit of grace comes in.
The Spirit of grace doesn't say "sin all you want, I got you covered", It says "even if you do sin sometimes, I got you covered".

2 Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The simplicity of Christ isn't that Christians can't sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The simplicity of Christ is that if we do sin, we are forgiven.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

 

[brakelite]

No-one should think that they can separate the law from the gospel.On many occasions the Pharisees in their hypocricy were roundly and rightly rebuked by Jesus for thinking that by keeping the law they would be saved; on one such occasion Jesus said:
Matthew 23:23

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

So obedience is good, and ought always to be done, but there are more important aspects of life in Christ, as Jesus put it 'weightier matters of the law', which have a greater priority. Love, mercy, faith, justice. That Jesus said they are a part of the law is significant. Those of you who claim the law was nailed to the cross have to reconcile the fact that love, justice, and mercy, that is the gospel,is part and parcel of that very law which you claim is of no further relevance to the Christian. How can 'thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart etc' be no longer of any significance to the Christian life? Is this not however the very essence of the law? That upon love for God as paramount and impartial love for neighbour hang all the law and prophets? How then can the law and the gospel be separated? They cannot. They intertwine and overlay each other intimately, having different purposes yet they run parallel to one another. And please, enough of this nonsense that claims that the law was done away with but reinstituted by the church through the writings of Paul. Far out, God didn't need Moses to establish law, nor did He need Paul. God's law was established in the heavens, since eternity past and into eternity future. His law is His nature, His character. His righteousness. To do away with His law is to do away with God Himself.

It is as we take a hold of Christ and cleave to Him in faith and love, that His law ceases its claims upon us because of two things. First and foremost, we are dead to the law, (note well, it is us that are dead, not the law) in Christ, and two, we are gifted with His righteousness. Not just accounted righteous like a book-keeping entry, but changed, sanctified, made righteous each day and made a new creature that lives, breathes, loves, obeys, cherishes the good and despises the evil. Sin no longer has an attraction to us. Greiving the Holy Spirit that abides in us becomes a detestful consideration. And as we hunger and thirst after righteousness we come to the point when we would rather die than tell a lie. We would rather burn than deny our love for our Maker. We would rather be tortured than be found to be a thief, or an adulterer. We would rather suffer ridicule, abuse, and slander than to compromise truth, reduce holiness to a human standard, or behave in such a way that brings disrepute upon He who saved us.

What a wonderful God who through the power of His word and the work of His Spirit can fulfill in us His promises as laid out in His law.
You shall love the Lord thy God with all the heart, with all the soul, and with all thy strength.
You shall worship the Lord thy God and you will only serve Him.
You shall not have any other god before Him, nor shall you make any graven image. You shall never take the name of the Lord in vain.
You shall remember to keep holy His Sabbath day.

And you shall love thy neighbour as thyself.
You shall not dishonour your parents.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not lie.
You shall not covet.

 

[DHC]

Hello B-A-C and brakelite.

How do you interpret the following verses.

Instructions for the Gentiles from the apostles and elders.
Acts 15
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon
you no greater burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain
from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things
strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from
such things, you will do well. Farewell.

Much later and just before Paul's arrest.

Acts 21
25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote,
having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to
idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.

 

[brhal]

Let us compress this entire discussion: If I must keep all the law (because if you fail on any one point of the law you have failed to keep the law; so if you fail anywhere, you have failed) then Christ's blood is no more powerful than that of lambs and rams.

 

[B-A-C]

Hello B-A-C and brakelite.

How do you interpret the following verses.

Instructions for the Gentiles from the apostles and elders.
Acts 15
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon
you no greater burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain
from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things
strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from
such things, you will do well. Farewell.

Much later and just before Paul's arrest.

Acts 21
25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote,
having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to
idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.

Acts 15 was written to two groups of people.
Act 15:1 Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
Jews that knew the law.

Act 15:19 "Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
Act 15:20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.
Gentiles who didn't know the law. As new believers they didn't want to weigh them down with a bunch of rules that didn't yet make sense to them.

The same thing in Acts 21.
Act 21:20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law;
Act 21:21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
Act 21:22 "What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
Act 21:23 "Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
Act 21:24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.
Ok that's the Jews who knew the law. Now we move to the Gentiles who didn't really know the entire Jewish law (over 316 laws)
So they had to start somewhere, most of these new converts were Pagans that sacrificed to idols.
Acts17:16 Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was being provoked within him as he was observing the city full of idols.
Acts 17:23 "For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, 'TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.' Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you.

Act 21:25 "But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication."
They couldn't teach the new Gentiles the entire 316 laws in one day or a week, especially since they weren't going to be saved by following it anyway. So they started with the basics that the Gentiles would understand.

1 Cor 12:2 You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led.

 

[B-A-C]

Let us compress this entire discussion: If I must keep all the law (because if you fail on any one point of the law you have failed to keep the law; so if you fail anywhere, you have failed) then Christ's blood is no more powerful than that of lambs and rams.

Jas 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
And that's the point of all this.
Mat 5:18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Luke 16:17 "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.
Rom 2:27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?
Rom 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

In the OT you had to follow the law to the letter. You could not deviate even the tiniest bit. There was no grace. No room for mistakes.
In the NT we follow the Law of the Spirit, or you might say the Spirit of the law. Which means God knows we can't follow it to the letter.
So just do your best to follow it as you can. Well the best we can still isn't following it to the letter.
That's where the law of grace comes in. Grace fills in the gaps for us.
Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

It isn't about following a bunch of rules, it's about loving your neighbor. The OT law was just originally a bunch of rules showing us how to do this.
More and more rules and traditions got added to this over time. By the time Jesus got here, it was barely a shadow of the original law.
Mar 7:5 The Pharisees and the scribes *asked Him, "Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with impure hands?"
Mar 7:6 And He said to them, "Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
Mar 7:7 'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'
Mar 7:8 "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men."

Jesus got rid of all the "religion" and traditions around this and boiled it down to two things.

Mat 22:37 And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
Mat 22:38 "This is the great and foremost commandment.
Mat 22:39 "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
Mat 22:40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

Ok, so we just went from 316 commandments (and even more traditions added by men) to down to just two.
Which is all those commandments in the OT were meant to teach us.
You would think we would be able to follow just two laws. But we can't even do that. So the law of the Spirit and the Law of grace covers it for us.
No one can follow them. So no one will be saved by doing them. Gal 3:11
But if we are led of the Spirit we aren't under the law. Gal 5:18

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
Rom 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Jesus fills in the gaps were we fall short, or miss the mark, or as many believe.. when we sin.

 

[DHC]

Acts 15 was written to two groups of people.
Act 15:1 Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
Jews that knew the law.

Act 15:19 "Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
Act 15:20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.
Gentiles who didn't know the law. As new believers they didn't want to weigh them down with a bunch of rules that didn't yet make sense to them.

The same thing in Acts 21.
Act 21:20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law;
Act 21:21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
Act 21:22 "What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
Act 21:23 "Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
Act 21:24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.
Ok that's the Jews who knew the law. Now we move to the Gentiles who didn't really know the entire Jewish law (over 316 laws)
So they had to start somewhere, most of these new converts were Pagans that sacrificed to idols.
Acts17:16 Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was being provoked within him as he was observing the city full of idols.
Acts 17:23 "For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, 'TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.' Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you.

Act 21:25 "But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication."
They couldn't teach the new Gentiles the entire 316 laws in one day or a week, especially since they weren't going to be saved by following it anyway. So they started with the basics that the Gentiles would understand.

1 Cor 12:2 You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led.

Hello B-A-C.

Noticed your first line;

"Acts 15 was written to two groups of people."

Acts 15, contains the decision by the council of Jerusalem
concerning any rules that the Gentiles should abide by. The letter
that the apostles wrote was only directed to the Gentiles as I
will show you B-A-C.

...The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren
in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings.
(Acts 15:23)

There is only one group nominated, the uncircumcised or Gentiles
in three particular regions.

Then you wrote;

"They couldn't teach the new Gentiles the entire 316 laws in one day or a week, especially since
they weren't going to be saved by following it anyway. So they started with the basics that the Gentiles would understand."

This is pure error B-A-C, you have disregarded the direct instruction
from the apostles and elders. Acts 15, clearly states the requirements for Gentile
converts, why do you nullify the advice of the apostles and elders?

This letter from Jerusalem was written to deal with the very serious
legalizing influence of the Jews towards the Gentiles. You have breached the
clear instructions of the apostles. The text does not state "that they started
with the basics", no where does it mention in the New Testament that
Gentiles should obey the Mosaic law.

The issue dealt with by the apostles is as follows;

Acts 15:5
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed
stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and
to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.”

Notice the underlined section, obedience to the law.
This was the issue, the law, were Gentiles expected to
obey the law plus Christ. Let's get this straight B-A-C
as it was a very contentious issue.

Then B-A-C, you made this alarming statement.

"Gentiles who didn't know the law. As new believers they didn't
want to weigh them down with a bunch of rules that didn't yet
make sense to them."

It may have escaped your attention that both Jew and Gentile
are justified by faith in Christ.

8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them
the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing
their hearts by faith. (Acts 15:8)

Cleansing their heart by faith!

 

[Barny]

Justification and Salvation do not come through the Law. We cannot follow the law to the letter. We as sinful humans are simply unable to do so no matter how hard we try.
The good news is. Jesus fulfilled this for us. It's a good thing, because we can't even follow the letter of the law below.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

So we are unable to follow every "jot and tittle" (as King James puts it) of the letter of the law (as Rom 7:6) puts it.
So we are to follow the Spirit of the law, not the letter of the law. We are free from the letter of the law. The Spirit of the law says even though you can't possibly
live up to these requirements, here are the requirements you should try to obey.

Ahh... but we are unable to obey them. That's where the Spirit of grace comes in.
The Spirit of grace doesn't say "sin all you want, I got you covered", It says "even if you do sin sometimes, I got you covered".

The simplicity of Christ isn't that Christians can't sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The simplicity of Christ is that if we do sin, we are forgiven.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

Hi B-A-C,

I'll be brief in reply as I'm short of time.

You said " "even if you do sin sometimes, I got you covered".
And then you quote 1John 1:8-10 & 2:1 to support this.

I disagree, as 1John 1 refers to unbelievers. Read it's context from the beginning of the chapter and note it's evangelical context, declaring eternal life so that the hearers may also have fellowship with the Father and His Son, Jesus.
If 1John 1:8-10 actually said Christians sin then it would contradict 1John 3:6-9 which says we "cannot sin".

You say that if we "somtimes" sin the Spirit of grace has got us covered. Why "sometimes"? And what extent does this refer to? Is it as much as 7 trillion x 7 trillion?
I ask such questions as I'm confused on the doctrine your sharing.

 

[B-A-C]

This is pure error B-A-C, you have disregarded the direct instruction
from the apostles and elders. Acts 15; clearly states the requirements for Gentile
converts, why do you nullify the advice of the apostles and elders?

1 Cor 8:1 Now concerning things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies.
1 Cor 8:2 If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know;
1 Cor 8:3 but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him.
1 Cor 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.
1 Cor 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,
1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
1 Cor 8:7 However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1 Cor 8:8 But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat.
1 Cor 8:9 But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
1 Cor 8:10 For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol's temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols?
1 Cor 8:11 For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died.
1 Cor 8:12 And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.
1 Cor 8:13 Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.

If I am in error, why did Paul say it was OK?

 

[B-A-C]

You say that if we "somtimes" sin the Spirit of grace has got us covered. Why "sometimes"? And what extent does this refer to? Is it as much as 7 trillion x 7 trillion?
I ask such questions as I'm confused on the doctrine your sharing.

No that isn't what I said.
I said sometimes WE sin.
Everytime we sin, we are covered by Jesus.

There is no limit on the number of sins we can commit, however...

I believe we can fall away from the faith. Since we aren't saved by works in the first place, bad works (sin) aren't what condemns us.
We are saved by faith, so what if we lose our faith? I believe we can sin so much we lose our faith.

I also believe we can sin so much that we quit believing it's sin. That we believe we no longer need to repent of them.
I know some homosexuals, and some fornicators. I myself have been guilty of fornication in my past (even after I was a Christian).
Some of these people have quit doing these things. Some of these people want to quit doing these things and are trying change their lives (repentance).

Finally, some of these people believe they aren't sinning at all. I don't believe these sins will be forgiven either. Heb 10:26

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Why is there so much strife in here? What does the WORD say?
No need to interpret. No need to translate. Just read it.

Ephesians 2:13-18 (King James Version)



Ephesians 2:13-18

King James Version (KJV)

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Jesus abolished the Law for us. HE even says why! End of argument.

Let's get to learning to walk in LOVE now Ok?

 

[B-A-C]

Jesus abolished the Law for us. HE even says why! End of argument.

So we can no longer sin now. Is that what you're saying?

Is that really what he said?
Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

 

[B-A-C]

What's the difference between fulfilling the law, and abolishing the law?

Scenario one.
Satan : Tom you sinned 34,000 times, Mike you sinned 37,000 times, John you sinned 42,000 times.
God the father : Ok you three, pay up.
Jesus: I got this. [Writes the check]

Scenario two.
Satan: Tom you sinned 34,000 times, Mike you sinned 37,000 times, John you sinned 42,000 times
God the father : Ok you three, pay up.
Jesus: Umm.. no, they never sinned. Nobody owes anything.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Nobody said anything about sin my friend. Now we have two verses that apparently conflict. Can you reconcile them? They do not argue.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

So we can no longer sin now. Is that what you're saying?

Is that really what he said?
Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Actually, my friend, if you think about it....If a Christian walks in LOVE, walks in the anointing as we are supposed to....then No he would not sin.

 

[B-A-C]

Actually, my friend, if you think about it....If a Christian walks in LOVE, walks in the anointing as we are supposed to....then No we would not sin.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Couldn't have said it better.

LOL Good!! Now I'm off to California again. See you next week unless I can find internet along the way.

 

[Barny]

No that isn't what I said.
I said sometimes WE sin.

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

Everytime we sin, we are covered by Jesus.
There is no limit on the number of sins we can commit, however....

We seem to agree in part.
I understand from scripture that our sin was covered by Jesus, as you say. BUT this was done at the cross and was for PAST sin only, as Rom 3:25 says.
"Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST"

Once we're in Christ there is no more "sin" that we can be charged with, as we're justified/righteous in Christ.
Rom 8:33
Who shall lay ANY THING to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Scripture confirms we've "CEASED from sin", 1Pet 4:1, "CANNOT sin", 1John 3:6-9.

I agree with you that in the physical we're clearly not perfect. Where we differ though is that you call these failings "sin" ( which then hinders your understanding of scripture) whereas I follow scripture which says that old physical body is dead because of sin, Rom 8:9, and we now regard no one according to the fesh as we're a new creation, 2Cor 5:16.

So if we're a new creation with our life "hid with Christ in God", Col 3:3, then why judge yourself a sinner?
We abide in Christ, 1John 3:6 and in him there is no sin, 1John 3:5.
I don't think you realize that in saying a Christian "sins" it's like saying that Christ sins. I know you say this only in ignorance.
So, as we've been cleansed of our PAST sin at the cross, why call unclean what God has cleansed?

I believe we can fall away from the faith. Since we aren't saved by works in the first place, bad works (sin) aren't what condemns us.
We are saved by faith, so what if we lose our faith? I believe we can sin so much we lose our faith.

I also believe we can sin so much that we quit believing it's sin. That we believe we no longer need to repent of them.
I know some homosexuals, and some fornicators. I myself have been guilty of fornication in my past (even after I was a Christian).
Some of these people have quit doing these things. Some of these people want to quit doing these things and are trying change their lives (repentance).
Finally, some of these people believe they aren't sinning at all. I don't believe these sins will be forgiven either. Heb 10:26

I agree that we can fall away from the faith, hence we have to be wary.
But we disagree in that you say that if we live a bad enough lifestyle that we can lose our faith.
I again refer to my previous questions to you about what extent of bad lifestyle determines when we've exceeded God's unlimited forgiveness? No doubt you can see the contradiction here.

How we lose our faith is if we turn back to unbelief in Jesus.
How do we do this?
The warnings throughout scripture shows us that it's turning back to righteousness by works of the law. This is even described as fornication with Hagar/the law, Gal 4:24, 1Cor 5.

Then also, there are those who are simply in unbelief in that they follow other gods of various sorts.

Regarding Heb 10:26 I draw your attention to the consistent warnings throughout the NT about turning back to the law for righteousness. With this context in mind we read Heb 10:26 speaking of sin in terms of going back under the law.
Heb 10:26
" if we sin wilfully"
How do we sin? Remember "sin" is transgression of the law, 1John 3:4
Gal 2:18 " if I build again the things which I destroyed (the law), I make myself a transgressor./SINNER.

And the rest of Heb 10:26
"after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,"
The truth refers to the gospel of grace.

Unfortunately your focus is so much on physical behavior that you are missing the spiritual truth in God's word.

 

[spirit1st]

GRACE is NOT A LAW ! Grace comes out of LOVE ! Love and faith are the laws of Christ JESUS ! The eternal LAWS ! The Kingdom LAWS !
GOD is LOVE !
HE created all things out of LOVE and FAITH !
Heb_11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,

Gal_5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Jas_2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
ROYAL LAW , is HIS KINGDOMS LAW!

 

[DHC]

1 Cor 8:1 Now concerning things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies.
1 Cor 8:2 If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know;
1 Cor 8:3 but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him.
1 Cor 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.
1 Cor 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,
1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
1 Cor 8:7 However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1 Cor 8:8 But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat.
1 Cor 8:9 But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
1 Cor 8:10 For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol's temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols?
1 Cor 8:11 For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died.
1 Cor 8:12 And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.
1 Cor 8:13 Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.

If I am in error, why did Paul say it was OK?

Hello B-A-C, yes you are in error.

On the surface it would appear that Paul is contradicting
the instructions of the apostles and elders at Jerusalem.
This is not the case B-A-C, please read on.

Here are the four instructions;

Act 21:25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote,
having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols
and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.

Now the apostles and we know that Jesus stated;

Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. What goes
into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth,
that is what defiles them.” (Matthew 15:10-11)

So the question is, why would the apostles who knew
exactly what Jesus said about food then present three
rules governing food to the Gentiles?

Knowing that the Jews were immersed in legalism as far
as food preparartion and what could be eaten and what
was not to be eaten. Jews would stumble and have a host
of issues with the Gentile eating practises. This would be
greatly exaggerated at the Christian feasts which the
early church appears to have conducted.

Hence, it is rather elementary that the intsructions were
for the sake of harmony between the Jews and the Gentiles
in the churches.

Thus, Paul is not contradicting the instructions at all.
Paul is merely explaing the purpose of the instructions.
Do not cause those who could stumble to doubt and be lost.
Seek unity, harmony and above all love in all its applications.

It seems only logical that the instructions were directly protecting
Jewish converts from the shock of the Gentile dietary habits.

Another passage of the same ilk is below;

I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself.
But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. If your brother
or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your
eating, destroy someone for whom Christ died. (Romans 14:14-15)