Is it faith alone??

[Tommy061]

This passage is one of the most abused and least understood passages in the Bible.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Grace = Charis
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

Grace is indeed a free gift but what sort of gift is it?

Grace is the divine influence on the heart of man and grace teaches us.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

The grace of God BRINGS salvation when we put it to use through faith. Faith is the working principle that activates grace in our lives. Faith is the DOING part or the WORK that we must do.

This is why Paul wrote...

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

You see we are to WORK TOGETHER with God otherwise we receive grace to NO EFFECT.

God is the AUTHOR of salvation not us, yet we MUST OBEY and yield to the working of the author in us. If you don't obey you will not be saved.

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Look at what James wrote...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

You are a doer of the word when you are obeying God thus being a worker together with Him.

Compliments of Scott Wilson

 

[JehovahDaughter]

I'm not sure what this post is getting at? How exactly is Ephesians 2:8-10 the most abused and least understood passage in the Bible?

 

[Tommy061]

Most use these verses to try and prove we are saved by faith alone, as Martin Luther who was a false teacher proclaimed, they confuse works of the law with an obedient faith, coming from a pure heart.

I hope you understand how many in the false church use these verses out of context to try and prove a false salvation message.

 

[Green Berean]

We work with troubled teens (and even more troubled adults) who are in recovery from addictions, abusive relationships, and a slew of other problems that many churches in the area only give pat answers and pandering acknowledgements to. The way we summarize the Gospel message to people who have an honest-to-goodness attention span of about 30 seconds is this: "It's just Jesus--there is no 'and.'"

It's not, "Jesus and fasting," or, "Jesus and tithing," or, "Jesus and the Westminster Confession." Christ and Christ alone is the only route to Heaven, the only way to the Father, the one and only name under Heaven by which we must be saved.

If you love Jesus, you will emulate Him.
If you love Jesus, then you will seek Him.
If you love Jesus, then you fill find Him.
If you love Jesus, then He will come in to you and dine with you, and you with him--forever.

Just Jesus. There is no 'and.' Anyone who says otherwise is singing a different tune.

 

[Tommy061]

We work with troubled teens (and even more troubled adults) who are in recovery from addictions, abusive relationships, and a slew of other problems that many churches in the area only give pat answers and pandering acknowledgements to. The way we summarize the Gospel message to people who have an honest-to-goodness attention span of about 30 seconds is this: "It's just Jesus--there is no 'and.'"

It's not, "Jesus and fasting," or, "Jesus and tithing," or, "Jesus and the Westminster Confession." Christ and Christ alone is the only route to Heaven, the only way to the Father, the one and only name under Heaven by which we must be saved.

If you love Jesus, you will emulate Him.
If you love Jesus, then you will seek Him.
If you love Jesus, then you fill find Him.
If you love Jesus, then He will come in to you and dine with you, and you with him--forever.

Just Jesus. There is no 'and.' Anyone who says otherwise is singing a different tune.

Please address the verses I included, you are teaching a false message of hope to these lost teens, where did Jesus say faith alone, we do nothing, and faith is just a passive trust in Jesus alone? You do not get saved IN your sins, Jesus preached repentance and faith proven by deeds, which is something we do

These lost teens need to come to repentance, then obey Jesus from the heart, made pure by faith, it is explained well in my first post.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Telling them and the lost masses they can come into the kingdom still in bondage to sin, isn't being honest with them,I know most hate this message, call it works salvation, and scoff at the narrow road to the cross, but this is what the gospel message is all about, Jesus is calling all of us to repent, obey, and follow Him on the narrow road, not accept Him, and confess your are a sinner, then He will clean you up later, this is a dead faith.

Preach repentance to these teens, as well as the lost church, as Jesus and the profits of old did, man has free will and ability to do this, either the sin stops in repentance or the heart hardens, you do not come into the kingdom still defiled!

<meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 9.00.8112.16440">repentance unto salvation!



Repentance is an urgent desire to change! (2 Corinthians 7:11) You believe from your heart. You obey to receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:32) He comes into a clean vessel. A heart made pure by faith (obedience) Acts 15:9) you obey and keep obeying, daily, to keep your heart pure and undefiled from the world! (1 Peter 1:22) That's how it works! Genuine repentance involves humility, brokenness and is a humiliating experience. When the true light of God's word floods into your soul, you see yourself as you are, in rebellion to God! This is what godly sorrow is all about. Deep regret for your sin's, a season of sorrow, leading to salvation! (2 Corinthians 7:10) not getting saved in your disobedience and sin's, but out of them, through true repentance first where the flesh is crucified with Christ, and put to death! (Galatians 2:20) cleansed to receive the Holy Spirit!

Now you got salvation!

 

[Tommy061]

If the true gospel was preached right from the beginning we wouldnt be having this disagreement,

Instant salvation!

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world thatHe gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perishbut have everlasting life.
There seems to be a strong trend inmodern Christianity today that the saving of one’s soul is about the same asdriving through a fast food restaurant! Its instant, fast, no waiting, and adone deal when all is said and done.
Is this what Jesus and the apostlestaught though? Are you sure all you have to do is say a little prayer, confess youare a sinner, naming your sins, and then asking Jesus into your heart?
How you answer these questions willhave a great effect on your eternal destiny.
The whole process of salvation istotally backwards today, and the multitudes gather around the podium, stage, orchurch pew, and just accept, and receive Jesus into their heart, the pastorthen tells them they are declared saved, all sins are forgiven, past, presentand future, and they are secure in Christ, because Jesus took their place, istheir obedience, and they can then boast to the world, they are the chief ofsinners still, just like Paul described in Roman Ch 7!
This is the message the churches,ministries, radio stations, music artists, etc,, are preaching, and many soulsare buying it hook, line and sinker, no questions asked, they are secure noworries!
I believed in this false message formany years, while I basked in my flesh, and worldly attractions, living adouble minded life, with one foot in the world and another in the church,kidding myself I was saved and going to Heaven because the pastor told me so,and who am I to question him! He went to seminary, told great jokes and jocularstories every Sunday morning as I went to do my duty, then spend the rest ofthe day indulging myself in sports, beer, and food. What a life, I was saved INmy sins and disobedience, having my cake and eating it too, even though I wasdead to God and His word.
But as I soon woke up, I realized therewas another gospel being preached by a few brave souls, that said the messagewas wrong, that salvation wasn't instant, and that there was more on my part todo, to be sure I was on the narrow path to life.
I learned I needed to go and do myfirst works, Rev 2:5 Therefore remember from whereyou have fallen, and repent, and do the first works, or else I will come to youquickly and will remove your lamp stand out of its place unless you repent.
And depart from iniquity, seek firstHis Kingdom, abstain from all appearances of evil, repent or perish, hold fast,stand firm, come out from the world, love not the world and its vainattractions, forsake my flesh and be diligent in the word of God, that bearinggood fruit was more than doing good works at the church, or helping the ladyacross the street, I had to live a life worthy of my calling.
Good fruit,as listed in the word. Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace,long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24 But those belonging to Christ have crucified the flesh with itspassions and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Now the fruit of the spirit goes beyond doing good works of the flesh it iscalling each of us to forsake our flesh, and walk IN the spirit, thus producinggood fruit, out of a true repentant heart, made pure through repentance andfaith proven by deeds, 2 Cor 7-10-11.
Good fruit automatically comes from aheart that has gone through a crisis of conviction, followed by a season ofgodly sorrow, leading to salvation! Which will lead to the fruit of repentancethat is missing from the simple, A,B,C, plan of instant salvation.
Apart from repentance, where the heartis cleared of all wrong doing, guile, evil, deceit, etc,,,there is no remissionof sins, Jesus said to go and sin no more, thus good fruit is contingent on atruly repentant heart, that has been circumcised by the spirit, putting todeath the flesh, and walking before God cleansed and purged from all known sinthat leads to death.
Then salvation becomes more likeprobation, contingent on our walking in the ligh t1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we havefellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses usfrom all sin. , , bearing good fruitas listed above, and growing more in the light and truth as God leads usthrough the spirit of truth. But if the heart is still defiled, and the sinstill remains, as in the easy plan suggests, then it will be impossible for Godto give you more light and knowledge, because you are still IN sin, doubleminded, loving the world more than God, and unable to understand truth as Hereveals it to you!
We must endure to the end to be saved, Mat 10:22 And you will be hated of all men for My name's sake, butthe one who endures to the end shall be kept safe .Count the cost, Luk 14:28 For which ofyou, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost,whether he may have enough to finish it; and know that the initial salvation granted to us by God, can belost if we choose to fall away from the faith, seek our own, and turn fromdoing righteousness! Eze 18:26 When arighteous one turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and diesin them; for his iniquity that he has done, he shall die .But there is a way out: Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked turns away from his wickednessthat he has committed and does that which is lawful and righteous, he shallsave his soul alive.
Eze 18:28 Because he looks carefully, andturns away from all his sins that he has committed, he shall surely live; heshall not die.
Eze 18:29 Yet says the house of Israel: The way of Jehovah is not fair. O houseof Israel, are not My ways fair? Are not your ways unfair?
Eze 18:30 So I will judge you, O house of Israel, each one of you according tohis ways, says the Lord Jehovah. Turn and be made to turn from all your sins; and iniquity shall not be your stumbling-block.
Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your sins by which you have sinned; and makeyou a new heart and a new spirit; for why will you die, O house of Israel?
Eze 18:32 For I have no delight in the death of him who dies, says the LordJehovah. Therefore turn and live.
Turn and live, a powerful statementfrom almighty God, not heard much in the false liberal gospel today, but maybea few will adhere to this message, and take it to heart, leading many out of bondageand into freedom!
Tommy 3-12-12

 

[lettheredeemed]

This passage is one of the most abused and least understood passages in the Bible.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Grace = Charis
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

Grace is indeed a free gift but what sort of gift is it?

Grace is the divine influence on the heart of man and grace teaches us.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

The grace of God BRINGS salvation when we put it to use through faith. Faith is the working principle that activates grace in our lives. Faith is the DOING part or the WORK that we must do.

This is why Paul wrote...

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

You see we are to WORK TOGETHER with God otherwise we receive grace to NO EFFECT.

God is the AUTHOR of salvation not us, yet we MUST OBEY and yield to the working of the author in us. If you don't obey you will not be saved.

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Look at what James wrote...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

You are a doer of the word when you are obeying God thus being a worker together with Him.

Compliments of Scott Wilson

Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


If our salvation was based on our behavior than why did Jesus die?

 

[jiggyfly]

Most use these verses to try and prove we are saved by faith alone, as Martin Luther who was a false teacher proclaimed, they confuse works of the law with an obedient faith, coming from a pure heart.

I hope you understand how many in the false church use these verses out of context to try and prove a false salvation message.

Yes context is very important but is context always important? Should scripture always be kept within context to understand it properly? I think so, but am interested in what you believe.

 

[Boanerges]

It is indeed by faith alone, and yet true faith will always bear fruit- the works are but the evidence of abiding in Christ which can be achieved only as an outward expression of faith. Salvation is not in the fruit born but is evidenced by that fruit. The following scripture places the whole works/faith thing in proper context:
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Works are good, even necessary, but not the basis of our salvation.

To look at it from another direction:

1Co 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Works accomplished by faith in Christ (empowered by the Holy Spirit) are gold, silver, precious stones and will have eternal value.
Works done in the strength and leading of the flesh are but flesh (Joh 3:6) and will be consumed by the fire of God's judgement for (1Co 1:29 ) no flesh may glory in His presnece ; and yet that precious one in Christ shall still be saved (in spite of the lack of remaining works)

Also note this, for this is where many seem to miss their calling:
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

These foreordained works are the works which He prepared, they are the works of the Father(Joh 10:32 ) and like Jesus His Son we should only do His works and that only at the Holy Spirit's lead, only in His power.
Try as one might the works of his own religious efforts (works of the flesh) are never acceptable to God (Psa 147:10-11).

 

[Green Berean]

Yeah, I think I'm done talking to people on here when they're only interested in picking a fight. For the record, Tommy, I wasn't disagreeing with you, so get off your high horse.

 

[Tommy061]

Jesus said TO DO!

Joh 8:30 As He spoke these words, manybelieved upon Him.
Joh 8:31 Then Jesus said to the Jews who believed on Him, If you continue in My Word, you are My disciples indeed.
Joh 8:32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Joh 8:51 Truly, truly, I say to you, If a man keeps My Word, he shall never see death.
<o> </o>
Did Jesus come to show mankind just how easy it is to be saved?Did he just say believe, then just trust I did it all for you? Or did He makeit very clear what we must do to inherit eternal life with Him!!
I believed that Jesus came to take the place of fallen mankind,who was incapable to do anything especially to repent and seek the mercy ofGod, I was told the way was narrow, but in reality it was actually a wide road,where everyone believes they were born a sinner, and Jesus was their remedywhich kept them safe, and added them into the kingdom, no questions asked,nothing to do, such as preparing the heart, forsaking all known sin, andactually coming out of the pig pen, before God would even consider forgivenessand mercy.
But from what Jesus said in the above scriptures, I can clearlysee, there was much more He was sharing then just believe, and all is well, Hewent on to say you must continue in His word (truth) which was clearly revealedthroughout all the Bible, calling mankind everywhere to repent or perish, andthen forsake the world, and follow Him on the narrow road that leads to life.
Notice, Jesus said, we are TO DO, in many scriptures, He suredidn't say, I will do it for you, or it’s already done for us, NO He saidclearly we are to KEEP HIS word, or die!
It’s simple, but a lost message, clouded by all the vain, man madeteachings circulating throughout the Christian world and church system. No onewill go to the word of God first to seek truth as their life depended on it,they take the word of mere men, who have also been deceived into believing thegreat lie, thus remaining under the great delusion! 2 Thess 2-10-11.
It all begins with getting away from easy salvation, and gettinginto the truth! We must continue and remain in His word and truth; it’s aworking faith in love, devotion and purity! That comes from a heart made purethrough faith and repentance unto life!
Tommy 6-23-12
Joh 15:10 If you keep Mycommandments, you shall abide in My love, even as I have kept My Father'scommandments and abide in His love.

 

[Tommy061]

TheDynamics of Faith

James 2:24 You see then how a man isjustified by works, and not by faith only.(Faith alone)
Are we saved by faith alone, inChrist alone? Was Martin Luther correct when he said faith alone will save yoursoul? or have you been duped into the great lie of swelling words that thewolves are selling to the gullible masses, that faith isn't a dynamic workingfaith in love, but a faith in an illusion, that says all is done for you, it isfinished, and any kind of obedient faith is considered works and earning yourway into heaven.
James 2:20 But will you know, O vainman, that faith without works is dead? James makes it perfectly clear, that faith without works is adead faith, and void of any real merit in God's eyes.
Now many think any kind of workstowards our salvation will void our salvation, because they have beenprogrammed for hundreds of years to believe Jesus is their covering andsubstitute, and any kind of obedience is works and takes away from what Christdid at Calvary.
What we must realize and understandis that a true working faith, that comes from a pure and undefiled heart, madepure through repentance, Act 3:19Therefore repent and convert so that your sins may be blotted out, when thetimes of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
This working dynamic faith, is aliving, breathing, obedient faith, that produces a pure heart, and spiritfilled life, that is required to be saved, these works or deeds of faith, provewe have been transformed into a new creation, by walking in obedience to theword of God, not making faith out to be a works of the law, by trying to keepall the ordinations, rituals and mosaic laws, but a working faith of obedience,that was well demonstrated by Abraham. James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works (deeds)when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
James 2:22 Do you see how faith worked with his works, and from the works faithwas made complete?
So you can clearly see that a workingfaith in love, which is an obedient faith, is required, and comes when a truerepentant heart is produced, clearing away all the vile sins and disobedience,and walking in faith (obedience) with Jesus Christ. Act 20:21 testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks,repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
A dynamic alive faith is then a joyand fruit coming out of a real conversion, which isn't in any way based on aprovision or arrangement Christ made on the Cross, but a real working faith inlove, which will produce good fruit, obedience, and heart purity, and will becounted(imputed) to us as righteousness.
James 2:23 And the Scripture wasfulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him forrighteousness, and he was called the friend of God.
So when someone quotes these versesto you, Eph 2:8 For by grace you are savedthrough faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. you can tell them that it's true, we are not saved by works ofthe law, or by faith in another's obedience, no we are saved by having aworking obedient faith, that is alive and dynamic, produced through repentance,and a working faith in love.
Faith and obedience are synonymous,or the same, not to be separated and labeled a dead faith, where obediencedoesn't matter, just a trusting faith in a provision that never took place,thus leading to a false convert, void of any real obedient faith, not producingthe works of righteousness. Gal 5:6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any strength,but faith working through love. Tommy 1-16-12

<o> </o>

 

[jiggyfly]

Hey Tommy, your post is in very small print and difficult for many of us aged members and larger print would be very much appreciated. I asked you earlier about context but maybe you didn't see my post, at any rate, I am not sure to what degree you believe the importance of context plays into having a correct understanding of the scriptures.

 

[lettheredeemed]

Yeah, I think I'm done talking to people on here when they're only interested in picking a fight. For the record, Tommy, I wasn't disagreeing with you, so get off your high horse.

Just because people don't agree with us doesn't mean they are trying to pick a fight. Someone once said, " I never learned from a man who agreed with me".

 

[lettheredeemed]

Hey Tommy, your post is in very small print and difficult for many of us aged members and larger print would be very much appreciated. I asked you earlier about context but maybe you didn't see my post, at any rate, I am not sure to what degree you believe the importance of context plays into having a correct understanding of the scriptures.

Context is key to rightly dividing the scriptures.But one must also consider who the Lord was addressing as He spoke through the prophets. Most of Paul's writings were written to the church. With that thought in mind we are saved by grace through faith and once we have believed in faith on the Lord Jesus Christ we are empowered by the Holy Spirit to walk in the Spirit that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

 

[David777]

Numbers 21:8-9
The Lord said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten
can look at it and live."

...Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived.

Let's imagine ourselves in this situation. Poisonous snakes have bitten everyone, and while we are not dead yet,
the prospects do not look good. Suddenly a voice yells out: "We must do something. We must save ourselves!"
But how? Various ideas surface such as: "If you run around in frantic activity it will work out the poison!"
A few people try this, and die trying. Others, by staring at their bites, go totally berserk into a frenzy of panic.
Alternately, some try to convince themselves that they are not bitten, or that the snakes were not poisonous,
and form little groups to delude each other while dying. And here's a person selling "snake oil" which purports
to be an antitoxin, but makes people even worse. Or still further, people selling books on the art of snake avoidance.

Enter Moses who says, "If you look at the bronze snake that has been lifted up on this pole, 0
you will live. If you do not, no matter what else you do, you will die." Now let's really picture how we might react,
having been given this revelation. "He must be kidding," we would think. "Do nothing? Just look?
How insulting a solution! What part do we play in it?"
Moses responds, "Cease your activities. Just look, and live!"
Really now, if you had been there, would you have believed it? 0
Do you believe God's solution today?

John 3:14 (NIV)
"Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up."

Let your focus be on Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit will convict
of sin. Conviction of sin is the work of the Holy Spirit, this is
not our work to do.

Repentance means to turn away from the flesh and turning in the
Spirit to Jesus Christ. Jesus was lifted up and draws us to himself.

Turn away from the world and turn to Jesus. With the emphasis on
Jesus. Your whole Christian life will involve repentance, just keep
the attention on Jesus and not the snakes.

 

[Stickz]

jiggyfly: Yes context is very important but is context always important? Should scripture always be kept within context to understand it properly? I think so, but am interested in what you believe.

I personally believe that context is ALWAYS important, but I also believe that people view context differently. I have had someone ( that I know hasn't read the entire Bible themselves ) tell me that I couldn't take one verse and make anything out of it--I had to read the whole chapter. Well, I don't think that a person should only familiarize themselves with the one chapter to make sense of a verse either--the whole book has to be read and understood. The authors of the New Testament make too many references to Old Testament verses for anyone that has only read the New Testament ( or less ) to understand the message that God intended for us. If a person has not read and studied and become very familiar with the entire Bible, they have no right at all telling anyone else not to take verses out of context.

And, by the way, Tommy, I agree with you. I believe that someone who intends to make it to Heaven is going to have to learn to cease from sin to make it.

And real faith cannot be hidden. That is why you will see in scripture where it says that when Jesus SAW their faith He healed them. Faith without works is no faith at all.

lettheredeemed: If our salvation was based on our behavior than why did Jesus die?

If Jesus completed EVERYTHING for us why are we reminded over and over again in scripture that He was our example?

Jesus died for our past sins and gave us an example to follow. How can a person follow His example without making effort to do so?

 

[jiggyfly]

And, by the way, Tommy, I agree with you. I believe that someone who intends to make it to Heaven is going to have to learn to cease from sin to make it.

And real faith cannot be hidden. That is why you will see in scripture where it says that when Jesus SAW their faith He healed them. Faith without works is no faith at all.



If Jesus completed EVERYTHING for us why are we reminded over and over again in scripture that He was our example?

Jesus died for our past sins and gave us an example to follow. How can a person follow His example without making effort to do so?

So then do you believe in a works based salvation?

Look here at what Paul said.

19 For God in all his fullness

was pleased to live in Christ,
20 and through him God reconciled

everything to himself.

He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth

by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.


21 This includes you who were once far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions.22 Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.
23 But you must continue to believe this truth and stand firmly in it. Don’t drift away from the assurance you received when you heard the Good News. The Good News has been preached all over the world, and I, Paul, have been appointed as God’s servant to proclaim it.
Col 1:19-23 (NLT)

 

[Michelle71]

Jesus said TO DO!

Joh 8:30 As He spoke these words, manybelieved upon Him.
Joh 8:31 Then Jesus said to the Jews who believed on Him, If you continue in My Word, you are My disciples indeed.
Joh 8:32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Joh 8:51 Truly, truly, I say to you, If a man keeps My Word, he shall never see death.
<o> </o>
Did Jesus come to show mankind just how easy it is to be saved?Did he just say believe, then just trust I did it all for you? Or did He makeit very clear what we must do to inherit eternal life with Him!!
I believed that Jesus came to take the place of fallen mankind,who was incapable to do anything especially to repent and seek the mercy ofGod, I was told the way was narrow, but in reality it was actually a wide road,where everyone believes they were born a sinner, and Jesus was their remedywhich kept them safe, and added them into the kingdom, no questions asked,nothing to do, such as preparing the heart, forsaking all known sin, andactually coming out of the pig pen, before God would even consider forgivenessand mercy.
But from what Jesus said in the above scriptures, I can clearlysee, there was much more He was sharing then just believe, and all is well, Hewent on to say you must continue in His word (truth) which was clearly revealedthroughout all the Bible, calling mankind everywhere to repent or perish, andthen forsake the world, and follow Him on the narrow road that leads to life.
Notice, Jesus said, we are TO DO, in many scriptures, He suredidn't say, I will do it for you, or it’s already done for us, NO He saidclearly we are to KEEP HIS word, or die!
It’s simple, but a lost message, clouded by all the vain, man madeteachings circulating throughout the Christian world and church system. No onewill go to the word of God first to seek truth as their life depended on it,they take the word of mere men, who have also been deceived into believing thegreat lie, thus remaining under the great delusion! 2 Thess 2-10-11.
It all begins with getting away from easy salvation, and gettinginto the truth! We must continue and remain in His word and truth; it’s aworking faith in love, devotion and purity! That comes from a heart made purethrough faith and repentance unto life!
Tommy 6-23-12
Joh 15:10 If you keep Mycommandments, you shall abide in My love, even as I have kept My Father'scommandments and abide in His love.

I understand where you are coming from. If there is no real repentance, then there is no real salvation. Easy grace has gotten ahold of the churches in the west.

Yes, salvation is by grace through faith. But, then we are ordered to do specific things for the maintenance always depending on His enabling. We do fall short now and again, for we will not be perfect this side of eternity. There is no perfect saint.

However, if you cannot look back over your life since you have been saved as see the changes...if there is not less of you and more of Christ, then there is something wrong. Not due to grit the teeth resistance from flesh that always fails, but almost effortless change that can only be explained by His Spirit working.

There has to be a brokeness that takes place for true salvation, a catalyst if you will, where your sin is know in your heart to be exceedingly sinful. Then the true works of the Holy Spirit will be manifest. That brokeness is not seen by and large in the seeker friendly, Emergant churches of the west.

 

[bgsda]

Jiggyfly it seems like you had the same situation that people had in Isaiah's day in Isa.chpt.20 people asked the same questions on how to uncover or dig deeper into Gods Word. Also there was false teachers ,prophets, and pastors that were deceiving people like nowadays. Focus in verse 20:10. Paul said the same thing when he wrote in Corinthians that we have to compare spiritual things with spiritual things. Tommy061 if you understand how much works took affect of Martin Luthers life then u would understand why he said the just shall live by faith. He was not wrong cause he was addressing the Papacy and Catholics who did everything by works back then. I believe faith and works have to go together. That is what is sanctification. Its a lifestyle that we as Christians are supposed to live. Every person in the Bible believed in faith and works.EVERYONE. so why this Jesus did it all for me know I just have to believe and I,ll make ot to heaven teaching is from the deceiver. It says in the Bible that demons believe and tremble at the name of Jesus. So what is the difference between us and the demons? Is that we act on our faith.God bless