Is God Really in Control?

[Fraction]

If God was in complete control, wouldn't it make him responsible for all of the bad things that has happened to humanity? The downfall of humanity, non-belief of humans, diseases, disasters, sin, etc etc.

I believe there to be a difference between God's plan and the choices that we make every single day.

 

[eddieb]

If God was in complete control, wouldn't it make him responsible for all of the bad things that has happened to humanity? The downfall of humanity, non-belief of humans, diseases, disasters, sin, etc etc.

I believe there to be a difference between God's plan and the choices that we make every single day.

no. a good example of this is when Adam told God, its that woman you put here with me, she gave the fruit to me and I DID EAT.

 

[Fraction]

no. a good example of this is when Adam told God, its that woman you put here with me, she gave the fruit to me and I DID EAT.

Yeah, that would be one of my points I already mentioned.

Does this mean we make our own decisions outside of God's control? So free will is exercised?

 

[RJ]

An excellent question RJ, "Is that God's definition?".

Firstly, the reason the dictionary provides a definition is
because it is in common usage.

Therefore, if you use a word, then it is generally understood
that it is the common usage definition you are referring too.

Now, should you apply another definition or qualify the word,
you should state the meaning that you intend, so your audience
will understand.

I think the answer to your question is, if God gives you a free will
choice then that is what you have. But, you would need to provide the scriptural support for this. I checked the NKJV and "choice" is
the word used 100's of times.

As JiggyFly stated, where predestination is present, on the surface it appears, rightly so, that free will is absent.

You can speak in christianese if you wish RJ.

I don't wish or do wish exactly...lol! .

I do enjoy God's word and what it speaks to me but, If I were to use Christanese on purpose, in this case, I would offer that: "The Lord works in mysterious ways."

The translation of which "Im totally clueless" except for the fact that I believe we don't have a clue of what marvelous things really awaits us and that, a great part of that, is our understanding or lack of percisely!

 

[eddieb]

Yeah, that would be one of my points I already mentioned.

Does this mean we make our own decisions outside of God's control? So free will is exercised?

robots do not have free will. they have software and they can only do what the program says. humans have brains and we think for ourselves. we choose God or not. to obey or not. to eat waffles OR pancakes. whatever. we are not robots. to me it seems this thread has placed an emphasis on free will thats a bit more hefty than its true weight.
however God can and does influence our thoughts and decisions and actions even though we are free will beings.

 

[Fraction]

robots do not have free will. they have software and they can only do what the program says. humans have brains and we think for ourselves. we choose God or not. to obey or not. to eat waffles OR pancakes. whatever. we are not robots. to me it seems this thread has placed an emphasis on free will thats a bit more hefty than its true weight.

Sure why not.

however God can and does influence our thoughts and decisions and actions even though we are free will beings.

Good point, I follow this idea as well. I do not doubt the fact that even though the influence is there, we can still say yes or say no. Just saying..

 

[David777]

Hello RJ.

"The Lord works in mysterious ways."

The translation of which "Im totally clueless" except for the fact that
I believe we don't have a clue of what marvelous things really awaits
us and that, a great part of that, is our understanding or lack of percisely!

In all honesty, I could not agree more with what you stated.

I guess our lack of understanding helps us to submit more to the Holy Spirit.

John 14:26

"and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name,
he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you."

 

[gdemoss]

The greatest exercise of human free will, will be when God says "depart from me you worker of iniquity" and they try to stay by their own free will that they thought they had. A humans choices are limited by what God, who is in perfect control, will allow. In the book of Revelation it speaks volumes about this with very little words. God is who brings everyone together for Armageddon. He uses 3 devils to do it.

Make no mistake. You get to choose to be righteous or unrighteous. God decides the rest as he directs your steps. Proverbs 16:9 But if you are unrighteous you will never believe this truth.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

 

[Kit Carson]

Well what is with all this..... I could care less if God is controlling me. Why should I care? I am pretty stupid sometimes all by myself, so to have free will within the confines of the net of God is fine by me.

A simple way to explain would maybe be kinda like this........if I send two employees to do a job and they do it their way. Cool with me as long as it gets done in a professional and timely manner , I may have done it differently but they got the same job done their way. Just the same if they deviate from a professional job I will have much to say.

So it is common sense, we have free will for sure, within the realm of Gods will. But yes, God has his will and that will always prevail.

At least I hope his will always prevails.......I look at the world and sometimes wonder....but for one, I have no wish to use my free will completely as I know the failings of that one.

Kit

 

[Fraction]

The greatest exercise of human free will, will be when God says "depart from me you worker of iniquity" and they try to stay by their own free will that they thought they had. A humans choices are limited by what God, who is in perfect control, will allow. In the book of Revelation it speaks volumes about this with very little words. God is who brings everyone together for Armageddon. He uses 3 devils to do it.

Make no mistake. You get to choose to be righteous or unrighteous. God decides the rest as he directs your steps. Proverbs 16:9 But if you are unrighteous you will never believe this truth.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

I assume by "righteous" and "unrighteous", you are talking about believers and non-believers.

So if a believer sins, God is guiding or making him do it?

 

[gdemoss]

I assume by "righteous" and "unrighteous", you are talking about believers and non-believers.

So if a believer sins, God is guiding or making him do it?

Wrong assumption. He that doeth righteous is righteous even as he is righteous. Not all believers are righteous.

 

[jiggyfly]

Wrong assumption. He that doeth righteous is righteous even as he is righteous. Not all believers are righteous.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:21-22 (KJV)

Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.
Col 1:22 (NLT)

Then how do you interpret this?

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Wow

You people really should step back and read what is written here.
Its degraded to a silly philosophy. There is little scripture used here except to back up a silly opinion. You sound like run of the mill religious folk. All opinion, doctrine, and philosophy. But little if any truth.

Sorry if I offend someone with this but ...Really people!! Now that we know what you have to say, somebody PLEASE!! Find out what GOD has to say about it.

 

[jiggyfly]

You people really should step back and read what is written here.
Its degraded to a silly philosophy. There is little scripture used here except to back up a silly opinion. You sound like run of the mill religious folk. All opinion, doctrine, and philosophy. But little if any truth.

Sorry if I offend someone with this but ...Really people!! Now that we know what you have to say, somebody PLEASE!! Find out what GOD has to say about it.

In all fairness for the most part, your posts are just opinions like everyone else, they might be what you think the scriptures say but when it comes down to it, it is still simply your opinion or interpretation of what the scriptures mean.:shock:

 

[gdemoss]

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:21-22 (KJV)

Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.
Col 1:22 (NLT)

Then how do you interpret this?

Let me read it again in its context so that I can properly understand it. As I read, I will drop down notes so to help you see how I come to any conclusion.

The letter to the Colossians is written to the Holy and Faithful brethren, so we must understand that all things said will be to someone who is both.

Paul basically mentions that he hasn't met them but still lifts them up in prayer that God would do his work within them.

A very important point made about being translated in to the kingdom of his dear son and having redemption though his blood, which we understand by 1 John to be conditional upon walking in the light and not darkness. This agrees with this passage about being delivered from the power of darkness.

We then lead up with a paragraph about who Jesus is that finishes up by speaking about being the blood that made peace for the purpose of reconciliation. Which blood we understand is only applied to those who walk in the light via 1 John.

Now our verse:
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Considering the beginning of the letter up until now along with the reason why Hebrews states that it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to make one perfect as pertaining to the conscience but that the blood of Christ has that affect, to actually take away sin that it not be continually repeated by the one who receives the atonement:

I'd say he is writing to a specific group of people who have repented of their sin to pick up their cross and actually follow Christ through the anointing that is in them and therefore will end up presented holy and unblameable and unreprovable in his sight. And that this verse only applies to people who are of like minded faith.

Many believe who have yet to repent. To them it does not apply. Before Jesus the law and the prophets was the only understanding of righteousness and they were ignorant of what was to come as Jesus was the best kept secret in town. But now, according to Romans, God has declared his righteousness in Christ and we are held to a higher standard of righteousness but also have better tools at our disposal to fulfill the requirements given. The anointing, the source of all strength.

I hope that gives justice to how I understand that particular scripture jiggy.

peace be unto you,

Gary

 

[jiggyfly]

Let me read it again in its context so that I can properly understand it. As I read, I will drop down notes so to help you see how I come to any conclusion.

The letter to the Colossians is written to the Holy and Faithful brethren, so we must understand that all things said will be to someone who is both.

Paul basically mentions that he hasn't met them but still lifts them up in prayer that God would do his work within them.

A very important point made about being translated in to the kingdom of his dear son and having redemption though his blood, which we understand by 1 John to be conditional upon walking in the light and not darkness. This agrees with this passage about being delivered from the power of darkness.

We then lead up with a paragraph about who Jesus is that finishes up by speaking about being the blood that made peace for the purpose of reconciliation. Which blood we understand is only applied to those who walk in the light via 1 John.

Now our verse:
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Considering the beginning of the letter up until now along with the reason why Hebrews states that it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to make one perfect as pertaining to the conscience but that the blood of Christ has that affect, to actually take away sin that it not be continually repeated by the one who receives the atonement:

I'd say he is writing to a specific group of people who have repented of their sin to pick up their cross and actually follow Christ through the anointing that is in them and therefore will end up presented holy and unblameable and unreprovable in his sight. And that this verse only applies to people who are of like minded faith.

Many believe who have yet to repent. To them it does not apply. Before Jesus the law and the prophets was the only understanding of righteousness and they were ignorant of what was to come as Jesus was the best kept secret in town. But now, according to Romans, God has declared his righteousness in Christ and we are held to a higher standard of righteousness but also have better tools at our disposal to fulfill the requirements given. The anointing, the source of all strength.

I hope that gives justice to how I understand that particular scripture jiggy.

peace be unto you,

Gary

Thanks for clarifying your interpretation, I see that we disagree.

 

[gdemoss]

Thanks for clarifying your interpretation, I see that we disagree.

You are one who believes that anyone who gives mental assent to the fact that Jesus is the Son of God who died for them is forgiven and forever perfected in Gods sight regardless of their actual response to the truth of the gospel?

Just taking a wild guess as you didn't offer your own interpretation.

Gary

 

[jiggyfly]

You are one who believes that anyone who gives mental assent to the fact that Jesus is the Son of God who died for them is forgiven and forever perfected in Gods sight regardless of their actual response to the truth of the gospel?

Just taking a wild guess as you didn't offer your own interpretation.

Gary

No, you got that wrong too, lol, but it's hard to have your paradigm challenged I know, because I have been there many times before and will be in the future.:wink:

 

[gdemoss]

No, you got that wrong too, lol, but it's hard to have your paradigm challenged I know, because I have been there many times before and will be in the future.:wink:

I don't mind that you doubt or challenge what I believe. I would however like to know your interpretation that you seem unwilling to give through my gentle nudges.:shade:

 

[jiggyfly]

Pauls says that it is because of Christ's shed blood at the cross that God's enemies are now His friends and are made holy and blameless before God and not by any other means or works.