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Worship the Cross?

I appreciate your posts , I'm gonna take a poke at this one (in good fun).


Then why do THEY still have him nailed to it ?


That's what I was going to ask before I saw you say it!! The Catholic church seems to want to keep Him on the cross, so they can reserve for themselves the power over sins, instead of having their billion-strong flock go to Jesus for forgiveness.
 
That's what I was going to ask before I saw you say it!! The Catholic church seems to want to keep Him on the cross, so they can reserve for themselves the power over sins, instead of having their billion-strong flock go to Jesus for forgiveness.

Wow, never thought of it that way. They do believe in replacement theology right? They are the new Israel in their eyes?
 
Wow, never thought of it that way. They do believe in replacement theology right? They are the new Israel in their eyes?

Yes, looks like that is the case. The Catholic Church is the New Israel and the New Jerusalem. Christ's Kingdom is His Church - on earth, in heaven (and in purgatory). Maybe some former Catholics on this site would be willing to confirm, correct or expand on this?
 
That's what I was going to ask before I saw you say it!! The Catholic church seems to want to keep Him on the cross, so they can reserve for themselves the power over sins, instead of having their billion-strong flock go to Jesus for forgiveness.

Yes, looks like that is the case. The Catholic Church is the New Israel and the New Jerusalem. Christ's Kingdom is His Church - on earth, in heaven (and in purgatory). Maybe some former Catholics on this site would be willing to confirm, correct or expand on this?


You are the man and I couldn't agree more. You start exposing Catholicism for the cult that it is your gonna bring on a fire storm.

I say bring it.:suspicious:
 
I appreciate your posts , I'm gonna take a poke at this one (in good fun).


Then why do THEY still have him nailed to it ?

I agree, it is a good point.
I enjoyed reading all the posts following this
also. Although this could be used as a popular
example of those that believe in having power
over sins that peace seeker has pointed out, there
are many more subtle ways that it is demonstrated,
such as those that think they can earn their way to
Heaven and don't need the free gift of grace at all.
When I talk about Jesus to my friends who don't believe in
Jesus, they say they don't need to believe in Jesus because
they say they are a good enough person, they aren't
murderers or thieves. In other words, they
think they have the power to erase sins themselves by
doing good works, which we all know doesn't work that
way either. Ephesians 2:8


 
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God is not dumb.

He knows the heart of all.

I can own a golden calf and call it Baal. If I worship it it is a false god and an idol and this will very much displease God.

But if I sit it in the garden simply as a decoration with no meaning at all, and I would not I use this for example only, I would actually be scared to do this, but any object is just an object. If I decide to worship this object then it becomes an idol.

The Cross was a pagan symbol long before the time of Christ. But when Jesus says take up your cross and follow me, it is but a symbolic way of speaking.

The cross itself is but an object, but if you lay it on the table and worship it, then it becomes an idol.

If you worship God and or Christ, and simply wear a cross as a decoration out of respect and memory for the ultimate sacrifice , I think that is perfectly fine. As the cross is but a symbol, it is not an object of worship.

Kit

Interesting thought Kit. Let me push you a little.... You put your little golden calf in your garden and its only a decoration....Ok Now put a statue of a gargoyle. LOL Ok Far fetched.. But what is that?

signs and symbols in themselves, as you said, have no power. However they do advertise an alignment with whatever 'personage' they represent. Let me give you an example....You are a God loving Christian but your favorite jacket says "Mikes Bar" on the back of it.. What message are you giving to those that see it? What message are you sending to those whom you share Jesus with that see it?
 
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signs and symbols in themselves, as you said, have no power. However they do advertise an alignment with whatever 'personage' they represent. Let me give you an example....You are a God loving Christian but your favorite jacket says "Mikes Bar" on the back of it.. What message are you giving to those that see it? What message are you sending to those whom you share Jesus with that see it?

I agree with this, symbols often represent and align us with something. Just doing a cursory Google search would confirm that symbols are very important and meaningful to practicing evil-doers.

And the bible admonishes us to not have anything to do with evil.....

2 Corinthians 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

1 Thessalonians 5:22
Abstain from all appearance of evil. (ETC.)
 
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But if I sit it in the garden simply as a decoration with no meaning at all, and I would not I use this for example only, I would actually be scared to do this, but any object is just an object. If I decide to worship this object then it becomes an idol.

Hi Kit,

I understand you were just making an example for comparison sake and that you're not implying that we can have any kind of object we want in our garden, or anywhere else. But I wouldn't agree that in all cases an object remains just an object until you worship it.

I mean, I could be a musician or a biker or someone that wears a satanic pentagram around my neck because I think it looks or makes me look cool. And even if I don't think of it as any more than just a cool trinket that enhances my bad image, nonetheless I would be aligning myself with what it represents, even if I believe that symbols are powerless and that I am not worshiping anything, that it's all harmless fun, etc.

I don't think it would be correct for me to tell myself that it is nothing more than a piece of metal in a certain shape - a powerless object - and that as such I can wear a pentagram, as along as I just think of it as a decoration and don't worship it.

There are lots of Hollywood stars and musicians that think it is "in" and cool to wear 666 on their clothing, and I am sure 90% of them are just doing it for attention. But I don't think their intention has as much weight as what it represents.

Cheers!
 
Hi Kit,

I understand you were just making an example for comparison sake and that you're not implying that we can have any kind of object we want in our garden, or anywhere else. But I wouldn't agree that in all cases an object remains just an object until you worship it.

I mean, I could be a musician or a biker or someone that wears a satanic pentagram around my neck because I think it looks or makes me look cool. And even if I don't think of it as any more than just a cool trinket that enhances my bad image, nonetheless I would be aligning myself with what it represents, even if I believe that symbols are powerless and that I am not worshiping anything, that it's all harmless fun, etc.

I don't think it would be correct for me to tell myself that it is nothing more than a piece of metal in a certain shape - a powerless object - and that as such I can wear a pentagram, as along as I just think of it as a decoration and don't worship it.

There are lots of Hollywood stars and musicians that think it is "in" and cool to wear 666 on their clothing, and I am sure 90% of them are just doing it for attention. But I don't think their intention has as much weight as what it represents.

Cheers!

Aye.........what something represents is important. And if you hand me a little metal devil decoration, I will hand it back to you. Tell you to throw it away.

It becomes a situation of tolerance. Surely this is harmless, just a piece of metal. But one thing leads to another and one thing accepted causes another to be accepted.

So common sense, applies. What is the object intended for?? God says I am God, you will worship me, and I am jealous if you worship another, this is very silly anyway as there are no others, so when you mold a calf out of gold and worship it or go cut yourself a tree out of the woods, and fasten the trunk to the ground, carve it out as an idol and decorate it with gold and worship it with all manner of perverted ways, I will hammer you says God.

The Christmas tree situation is in its meaning and intent harmless. It is a tradition of man. A way for man to relate to things and is for man but if done out of respect for God, and with the intent to honor God, it is cool. If the tree is erected in front of a business and has money saving coupons hung all over it, to solicit business, then this is use in a sinful way.

Traditions of man, over time have become corrupted, and they do acquire the ways of man, from want, greed, the need to have money to buy presents, the wish to not feel left out, the way you see a child expect a toy or device seen on T.V, and when they get a warm coat they throw a fit and act bad and it is allowed. Money is the evil behind the tradition, the commercialization of it all.

But God knows all the hearts of all. Anything done with the right intent and for the correct means, is cool.

Such as in the Catholic religion, many worship Mary, the mother of Jesus. It is fine to give her honor and respect, but worship is for God. To honor her and tell her Thank You would be cool, but to bow down and worship her is not.

People take so many things our of context. They read into them the wrong things, in both directions, both toward good and toward evil.

It is all so very simple, anything you do if it honors God, it is cool.
But God never had a birthday, he has always been, always will be, he is eternal, and outside of time.

Our next discussion will be coming up soon about Easter Egg Hunts, I have never seen an Easter Bunny lay an egg......especially pink and blue ones Lol!! But children having fun and laughing and so on is harmless. I remember my daughter when she was little, could not find any eggs, so she would sneak up behind another and grab and egg out of their basket, she was like 4 years old. Yes it is wrong, but it is us, how we are, no one has to teach us, we just do.
That has gave me many a smile over the years, it shows me how we are born, and how God molds us when we allow it. And shows me the funny and the harmless. It taught me to look for the good, and avoid the bad.

But I understand the entire debate, about the Christmas tree thing. The wearing of a Cross, the ownership of one, and Easter and Halloween and so on. To me the cross is a symbol and tradition of man for man to represent honor to God. Used in this way it is cool. Used as long ago as worship to the sun God is not. Forgive me for addressing all these subjects of confusion in one post. I just see people living in fear of things that are really silly. If you wear a cross to honor God, cool. If you worship the cross and expect it to provide anything, it is not cool. It is the intent, and the inner truth.

But the wise lesson is for us, parents, all to teach the truth of things, the inner truth and not let objects of the world cause us to give them false meaning. To let tradition cause us to enter into the wish for things and money and make this more important than honor to God.

Kit
 
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I appreciate your posts , I'm gonna take a poke at this one (in good fun).


Then why do THEY still have him nailed to it ?

That is one of the signs of a truly reformed church, you will not find a crucifix but only an empty cross, which I agree with!
 
Aye.........what something represents is important. And if you hand me a little metal devil decoration, I will hand it back to you. Tell you to throw it away.

It becomes a situation of tolerance. Surely this is harmless, just a piece of metal. But one thing leads to another and one thing accepted causes another to be accepted.

Exactly, this is very true, tolerance is how the enemy works. The sentiment being, "be careful not to judge, you must tolerate everything, because you would be unloving if you didn't."
Satan doesn't work in black and white, he works in shades of grey. "Lying isn't bad, everyone does it. And it's not like you're a murderer!"

So common sense, applies. If the tree is erected in front of a business and has money saving coupons hung all over it, to solicit business, then this is use in a sinful way.
Good example !!

Traditions of man, over time have become corrupted, and they do acquire the ways of man, from want, greed, the need to have money to buy presents, the wish to not feel left out, the way you see a child expect a toy or device seen on T.V, and when they get a warm coat they throw a fit and act bad and it is allowed. Money is the evil behind the tradition, the commercialization of it all.
Yes, I have seen this first-hand, as I'm sure a lot of us have.

2 Timothy 3:1-5 (emphasis mine)
This know also: that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous (gimme, gimme, gimme, but I'll never be satisfied), boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents (I don't have to obey you, you have to obey me), unthankful (you didn't get me everything on my Christmas list!), unholy, without natural affection, truce-breakers, false accusers, without self-control, fierce, despisers of those who are good, traitors, headstrong (I will throw a tantrum and tell my teachers on you if I don't get my way), haughty (the "me" generation), lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God (no comment needed), having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. From such turn away.

Such as in the Catholic religion, many worship Mary, the mother of Jesus. It is fine to give her honor and respect, but worship is for God. To honor her and tell her Thank You would be cool, but to bow down and worship her is not.
This where I have to disagree a little with you, brother. I can't see why I would ever feel the need to honor or thank Mary. I could feasibly thank God for Mary, but for me, I think even that would be pushing it.

People take so many things our of context. They read into them the wrong things, in both directions, both toward good and toward evil.
It is all so very simple, anything you do if it honors God, it is cool.
As long as we know what does and doesn't honor God. I wonder if the people that brought strange fire before the Lord thought they were honoring God. They must have thought they were, or they wouldn't have done it that way.

Leviticus 10:1-2 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took each of them his censer and put fire therein, and put incense thereon and offered strange fire before the LORD, which He commanded them not. <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJ21-2977">2</sup>And there went out fire from the LORD and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

Our next discussion will be coming up soon about Easter Egg Hunts
I'm not going there! Well, maybe not yet! :wink:

But I understand the entire debate, about the Christmas tree thing and Easter and Halloween and so on. To me the cross is a symbol and tradition of man for man to represent honor to God. Used in this way it is cool. Used as long ago as worship to the sun God is not.
Yeah, I understand the debate too. I think when we have these big discussions about issues like this, for the most part we are just witnessing Christians putting 2 Timothy 2:15 into action.

Forgive me for addressing all these subjects of confusion in one post. I just see people living in fear of things that are really silly.
Agreed. A lot of times we "major in the minor and minor in the major". Big things are made into little things and little things are made into big things. As you rightly say, being fearful is not good and is silly.
 
For me, you commentary is way out there and on the fringe.

The cross is the symbol of Christianity. The cross as an idol, indeed!

The cross is a pagan symbol. It has occult meaning. This very fact is why satanists wear inverted crosses around their necks. They don't worship the cross either. It's a just a pagan symbol. Much like the Nazi crooked "cross" is.
A cross represents evil.

If someone killed Jesus with a gun. I wouldn't wear a gun around my neck. If they hung Jesus with a rope, I wouldn't wear a rope around my neck either.
Good thread
 
Wow Trib, your a Christian ?

Sorry.....

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 6px; WIDTH: 100%; PADDING-RIGHT: 6px" class=s_verse vAlign=top><NOBR>1 Corinthians 1:18</NOBR>
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

</TD></TR><TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Re-examine yourself my friend.
 
Wow Trib, your a Christian ?

Sorry.....

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

<table style="WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 100%"><tbody><tr><td style="PADDING-LEFT: 6px; WIDTH: 100%; PADDING-RIGHT: 6px" class="s_verse" valign="top"><nobr>1 Corinthians 1:18</nobr>
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

</td></tr><tr></tr></tbody></table>
Re-examine yourself my friend.

LOL Whoa Chill out Dude. Oh I love that phrase! There is a difference between a cross, (a thing) and the preaching of the cross (a miraculous event)
If a person decides that the image of a cross in not suitable for a Christian to wear, No problem. It will in no way hinder his salvation.
 
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Whoa Chill out Dude. It will in no way hinder his salvation.

It's OK... Donnie is just trying to insult me.
AGAIN!

He has NO idea how to be tactful. And is under the misconception that Jesus loves Crosses.
A cross is probably one of the few things Jesus NEVER wants to see EVER again.
 
LOL Whoa Chill out Dude. Oh I love that phrase! There is a difference between a cross, (a thing) and the preaching of the cross (a miraculous event)
If a person decides that the image of a cross in not suitable for a Christian to wear, No problem. It will in no way hinder his salvation.


Dude , I understand , but...that 'thing' can't be seperated from that 'miraculous event'.

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Not to be worshiped (as some may ) but it is the foundation of our Salvation.

Hebrews 9:26
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
 
Dude , I understand , but...that 'thing' can't be seperated from that 'miraculous event'.

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Not to be worshiped (as some may ) but it is the foundation of our Salvation.

Hebrews 9:26
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

The crucifixion of Jesus was a covenant act. It was the shedding of Blood that ratifies the Covenant we have with the FATHER through Jesus.
So what is the symbol for covenant? The cross was merely a tool
 
It's OK... Donnie is just trying to insult me.
AGAIN!

He has NO idea how to be tactful. And is under the misconception that Jesus loves Crosses.
A cross is probably one of the few things Jesus NEVER wants to see EVER again.


Forgive me , but I find your comments about the Cross an insult and degrading to the Word of God.
 
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