Worship the Cross?

[Davy]

I have read quite a bit on the Internet on whether Jesus died on a wooden cross, an up-rite stake or a stake with three cross member. I guess we will have to wait and see, until one speaks with those who saw Jesus being executed.

What concerns me, is why people have images of crosses and wear them on their personage, when the Bible is quite clear what should be done with idols.

Exodus 20:4, 5: "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them."

Isaiah 42:8: "I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols."

Leviticus 26:1: "You shall not make for yourselves idols , nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, nor shall you place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it; for I am the LORD your God."

John 4:23, 24, clearly says: "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit , and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." Spirit and Truth! No were in the bible does it say you must worship God with or through an image, no matter what it is fashioned to look like. As this is what the bible says, why do people continue to use images of the cross, when it is clear God hates them?

Furthermore, if your son was killed by a knife, would you tie a knife around your neck in remembrance of your sons death? I believe when the bible says "No," to images and idols, that is exactly what God want from his worshipers.

 

[Peace Seeker]

You shall not worship them or serve them."

I wonder if that's the context? Is it the image, or the reason we make/own/wear one that matters?

 

[B-A-C]

The cross is indeed a symbol, but I do not worship it. I worship someone who hasn't been on it for over 2000 years. The cross is a reminder of the price Christ paid for me, but it doesn't take his place.

Some church have angels on their spires, others have spikes that look suspiciously like nails on them. Yet other churches name themselves after St Paul, St Peter, St Mary, or someone else other than God/Christ. I always appreciate it when I see churches named "Church of God, Church of Christ, Assembly of God, Church of Our Redeemer, Church of Christ the King, Church of our Saviour, Church of the Living Word", etc... One particular denomination usually calls their churches "Kingdom Hall" but they don't say who's kingdom, so you have to wonder.

In the Bible many churches were called by the town/city they were located in "Church of Smyrna, Church of Galatia, Church of Ephesus, etc..) I would certainly think this would be acceptable also.

I think it matters much less what the church is named, rather than the teaching. Some teach Jesus isn't God, others teach he is merely "a" God. Yet others teach there is no trinity.
Some teach that Jesus didn't come back to life in the flesh but merely in spirit. I would certainly stay away from those churches.

I have lived in over 14 states and attended about 16 different churches over the years, and don't know a single person who "worships the cross". The bred at communion is a symbol of Christs body, but I don't worship it, the juice is a symbol of his blood, but I don't worship it. Baptism is a symbol of being buried and raised again with Christ as well as a proclamation to other believers, but I don't worship baptism either. These things are just symbols.

 

[Peace Seeker]

I have lived in over 14 states and attended about 16 different churches over the years, and don't know a single person who "worships the cross".

I can't imagine anyone worshiping it either. If I wore one it would just be to wear as a badge of honor. Kind of just to say "thanks Lord, I haven't forgotten your enormous sacrifice".

 

[Kit Carson]

God is not dumb.

He knows the heart of all.

I can own a golden calf and call it Baal. If I worship it it is a false god and an idol and this will very much displease God.

But if I sit it in the garden simply as a decoration with no meaning at all, and I would not I use this for example only, I would actually be scared to do this, but any object is just an object. If I decide to worship this object then it becomes an idol.

The Cross was a pagan symbol long before the time of Christ. But when Jesus says take up your cross and follow me, it is but a symbolic way of speaking.

The cross itself is but an object, but if you lay it on the table and worship it, then it becomes an idol.

If you worship God and or Christ, and simply wear a cross as a decoration out of respect and memory for the ultimate sacrifice , I think that is perfectly fine. As the cross is but a symbol, it is not an object of worship.

Kit

 

[RJ]

I have read quite a bit on the Internet on whether Jesus died on a wooden cross, an up-rite stake or a stake with three cross member. I guess we will have to wait and see, until one speaks with those who saw Jesus being executed.

What concerns me, is why people have images of crosses and wear them on their personage, when the Bible is quite clear what should be done with idols.

Exodus 20:4, 5: "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them."

Isaiah 42:8: "I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols."

Leviticus 26:1: "You shall not make for yourselves idols , nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, nor shall you place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it; for I am the LORD your God."

John 4:23, 24, clearly says: "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit , and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." Spirit and Truth! No were in the bible does it say you must worship God with or through an image, no matter what it is fashioned to look like. As this is what the bible says, why do people continue to use images of the cross, when it is clear God hates them?

Furthermore, if your son was killed by a knife, would you tie a knife around your neck in remembrance of your sons death? I believe when the bible says "No," to images and idols, that is exactly what God want from his worshipers.

For me, you commentary is way out there and on the fringe.

The cross is the symbol of Christianity.

I personally know no one who worships the cross. Also, the cross is empty and represents that Jesus is no onger their, that he has been resurrected and in us.

What I worship is the one who was on the cross!

The cross as an idol, indeed!

 

[B-A-C]

The Cross was a pagan symbol long before the time of Christ. But when Jesus says take up your cross and follow me, it is but a symbolic way of speaking.

The cross itself is but an object, but if you lay it on the table and worship it, then it becomes an idol.

Kit

I have to say I seriously doubt this. Crucifixion was a uniquely Roman thing, there is no mention of it in history anywhere before the Roman empire. Why would pagan's worship a cross?? It would have had no meaning to anyone before Christ's death. Why would anyone have "symbolized" it before this time?

 

[Kit Carson]

I have to say I seriously doubt this. Crucifixion was a uniquely Roman thing, there is no mention of it in history anywhere before the Roman empire. Why would pagan's worship a cross?? It would have had no meaning to anyone before Christ's death. Why would anyone have "symbolized" it before this time?

I am generally careful what I say unless I am just messing around, but the cross was used as a symbol for the various folks who worshiped things such as the Sun God. Even before the Greeks and all that.

Ask your computer, the cross and pagan symbols. It will show you a lot.

It means much more to us and we are kinda getting off the subject, but it has been used in various ways.

Kit

 

[Peace Seeker]

Originally Posted by B-A-C View Post I have to say I seriously doubt this. Crucifixion was a uniquely Roman thing, there is no mention of it in history anywhere before the Roman empire. Why would pagan's worship a cross?? It would have had no meaning to anyone before Christ's death. Why would anyone have "symbolized" it before this time?

The cross symbol IS most definitely a very old symbol that dates 1000s of years before Christ. The pagans were sun worshipers and they used a large variety of stylized sun crosses.

 

[Donnie Ducati]

Lets be careful people, the Cross (not a wooden beam) is the Means by which our Lord gives to us all things, and that He does this by and through the Person, Work, Ministry, and Office of the Holy Spirit (Jn. 16:7-15; Rom. 8:1-2, 11).
Every single thing done in our hearts and lives which is from the Lord is carried out completely by the Holy Spirit. As it regards the Believer, we, within ourselves, have no power to change anything. It is the Holy Spirit Who Alone does the changing, and Who does so by His mighty Power. That’s the reason that Paul said:

“For the preaching of the Cross is to them who perish foolishness, but to us who are Saved, it is the Power of God” (I Cor. 1:18).

The “Preaching of the Cross” is the “Power of God,” because the Holy Spirit, Who Alone has the Power, works exclusively within the parameters of the Finished Work of Christ. In other words, when the Preacher “preaches the Cross” and the people believe what is being preached, this opens the door for the Holy Spirit to work mightily on our behalf.

He demands of us very few things, but He definitely does demand that we understand that Christ is the Source, and the Cross is the Means, and that we, at all times, place our Faith and confidence in that Finished Work. Doing that, and I speak of our Faith ever having the Cross as its Object (not idol), the Holy Spirit gives us the power to live a Holy life. In fact, that’s the only way that it can be accomplished (Gal. 2:20-21).

I grieve when I see preachers promoting one scheme after the other, claiming that such will bring about victorious living. There’s only one Message that can bring about such Victory, and it is “Jesus Christ and Him Crucified” (I Cor. 1:23).

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the CROSS of Christ should be made of none effect. 1 Cor. 1:17

 

[Peace Seeker]

Lets be careful people, the Cross (not a wooden beam) is the Means by which our Lord gives to us all things, and that He does this by and through the Person, Work, Ministry, and Office of the Holy Spirit (Jn. 16:7-15; Rom. 8:1-2, 11).
Every single thing done in our hearts and lives which is from the Lord is carried out completely by the Holy Spirit. As it regards the Believer, we, within ourselves, have no power to change anything. It is the Holy Spirit Who Alone does the changing, and Who does so by His mighty Power. That’s the reason that Paul said:

“For the preaching of the Cross is to them who perish foolishness, but to us who are Saved, it is the Power of God” (I Cor. 1:18).

The “Preaching of the Cross” is the “Power of God,” because the Holy Spirit, Who Alone has the Power, works exclusively within the parameters of the Finished Work of Christ. In other words, when the Preacher “preaches the Cross” and the people believe what is being preached, this opens the door for the Holy Spirit to work mightily on our behalf.

He demands of us very few things, but He definitely does demand that we understand that Christ is the Source, and the Cross is the Means, and that we, at all times, place our Faith and confidence in that Finished Work. Doing that, and I speak of our Faith ever having the Cross as its Object (not idol), the Holy Spirit gives us the power to live a Holy life. In fact, that’s the only way that it can be accomplished (Gal. 2:20-21).

I grieve when I see preachers promoting one scheme after the other, claiming that such will bring about victorious living. There’s only one Message that can bring about such Victory, and it is “Jesus Christ and Him Crucified” (I Cor. 1:23).

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the CROSS of Christ should be made of none effect. 1 Cor. 1:17

I, for one, did not intend to, nor do I wish to make the cross of Christ of none effect. Just because there were pre-Christian crosses, doesn't mean they could or would negate, diminish, minimize, etc. the cross of Jesus, which is the only one that matters.

 

[gdemoss]

What did Jesus think about the object that the sacrifice was offered upon?

18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. 19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

To me the above is twisting scripture but I found it intriguing. I have seen many interesting ways to twist scripture to make it seem to say different things. All of which contradict Gods intended message. However a picture of him being considered worth less than the very wood they hung him on would present an accurate picture of the value they considered him to have. You just can't say that the cross sanctified Jesus....no way.

The only verse that I would consider applicable to the subject at hand is:

(Gal 6:14) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

If I really thought that wearing a cross was somehow going to help communicate the gospel to a lost and dying world then i would get a big one. I do not need a cross to remind me of what Jesus did for me. I can't stop thinking about it, day in and day out.

And why do they always wear gold or silver metal crosses? Wouldn't wood be more appropriate?

Just some thoughts.

Gary

 

[Donnie Ducati]

"You just can't say that the cross sanctified Jesus....no way.".......Who said that ?


I don't ware jewelery , but theres nothing wrong in waring a Cross.

 

[gdemoss]

"You just can't say that the cross sanctified Jesus....no way.".......Who said that ?


I don't ware jewelery , but theres nothing wrong in waring a Cross.

It was a play on words...twisting scripture. The scripture says that the altar sanctifies the gift. Jesus was the gift upon the cross which is technically the alter of his sacrifice. It is just twisting the scripture to say something it doesn't really say.

Sorry if I confused you. I should be more plain or not bother with this kind of stuff.

Gary

 

[Donnie Ducati]

Jesus was the sacrifice (for sin)on the alter (Cross) in our place.


Gary, how'd this get confussing ?

 

[gdemoss]

Jesus was the sacrifice (for sin)on the alter (Cross) in our place.


Gary, how'd this get confussing ?

Donnie,

That isn't confusing. As he is. I thought my words may have been confusing. Jesus had no need to be sanctified as it is he who has sanctified us with his blood.

Gary

 

[Davy]

There are those like the Catholic faith who bow down to images of the cross, say prayer to the cross and make the sign of the cross with their hands, as I did when I was a young boy at a Catholic school here in England. I know there are similar schools today dotted around American who still do the same. To me that is worship of the cross! Some may beg to differ.

I know the bible makes repeated reference to the cross, which is a symbolic reference to Jesus' death and the ransom sacrifice. But no were does the bible say one should make an image of this cross and carry it around with yourself.

Carefully consider what the bible says you should do with any image, pagan or otherwise. 1　Corinthians 10:14, says: "flee from idolatry." (An idol is an image or symbol that is an object of intense devotion, veneration, or worship.)

Exodus. 20:4,　5, (JB) says: "You shall not make yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything in heaven or on earth beneath or in the waters under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them." (Notice that God commanded that his people not even make an image before which people would bow down.)

Of interest is this comment in the New Catholic Encyclopedia: "The representation of Christ's redemptive death on Golgotha does not occur in the symbolic art of the first Christian centuries. The early Christians, influenced by the Old Testament prohibition of graven images, were reluctant to depict even the instrument of the Lord's Passion." (1967), Vol. IV, p. 486.

Further more, concerning first-century Christians, History of the Christian Church says: "There was no use of the crucifix and no material representation of the cross." (New York, 1897), J. F. Hurst, Vol. I, p. 366.

Remember, it was the Jew's who first became believers, and they had a inculcated sense of revulsion for images like the cross, because of what the law said regarding images and would not have had anything to do with material representations of the cross, as historians have pointed out! So, if it is highly unlikely first century Christians had crosses, why do modern day Christians think it is acceptable, when God's standards do not change?

 

[dannibear]

When you attended the Catholic school, I
wonder if you asked why they made the sign
of the cross.

When we make the Sign of the Cross upon ourselves, we are also expressing our belief in God and the Trinity. Through it, we remind ourselves of God's love for us, of the sacrifice Jesus made to give us eternal life, and of the presence of the Holy Spirit within us.

Referring to what B-A-C said, for Catholics,
it is not the cross they worship, but the one
missing from it that they worship.

 

[RJ]

When you attended the Catholic school, I
wonder if you asked why they made the sign
of the cross.



Referring to what B-A-C said, for Catholics,
it is not the cross they worship, but the one
missing from it that they worship.

I like that very much!

 

[Donnie Ducati]

.... for Catholics,
it is not the cross they worship, but the one
missing from it that they worship.

I appreciate your posts , I'm gonna take a poke at this one (in good fun).


Then why do THEY still have him nailed to it ?