Just believe and be saved?

ozell · Nov 11, 2011

RJ said:
You of course have a right to your theology but most of us here see that you and Eccl think that you are saved by your works and not by the grace of God alone and, that is no salvation at all.

It was Abraham's faith and then by the grace of God that saved Isaac and nothing more. And, as far as Eccl's comment:

And what was the works/action that Abraham did to prove his faith?

Drawing back the knife!

The irony and contradiction of his statement. Again, the two of you want to make work equal with faith. Above, it is a contradiction that you agree that faith comes first.The works/action of Abraham are merely a result of his faith, not a requirement but, his obeying God's command. In this case, Abraham's faith was alive and well because he proved his faith by of obeying God and, God credited him with righteousness because of his faith.

No offense but, I think neither of you just don't get it or just don't want to in order to support your own theology.

no offense taken

because I know that what I'm reading here is denominational doctrine

what I can read from the word of God is this

James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2:25-26&version=KJVJames let me know that faith and works go together

now faith is this according to the bible not thoelogy nor, denominational teaching which is what many have here

lets read

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

how do I know that you have faith in Jesus, how do I know your faith is not in vain?

how do you prove it?

ozell · Nov 11, 2011

jari said:
Some people in here are not for learning their just posting their agenda regardless they have been given correct meaning of the verses they use to support their agenda.

i wonder why?

some people here think they are teachers or think that there denominational doctrine is truth

I wonder why?

can you point out who you are referring to?

ozell · Nov 11, 2011

;188214]God's word tells us throughout the bible that it takes MORE than faith for eternal life
1. Could you please provide some scripture that supports what you say?

very easy and simple to the point answer from Jesus

Luke 18

18And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

21And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. 
22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

keeping the commandments is something we do because we believe in them

2. Could you please explain these 2 verses:

Luke 7:50
50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

another simple answer

what was she saved from?

the many sins she had committed in the past.

46My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

47Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

48And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. 
49And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

because of the sins she committed in the past led her to do what she had done to the Lord in a show of repentence.

now the Lord rewards her of her work by forgiving her of her sins now she can go in peace.

at that time she is saved from her sins until she commit more or until she endures unto the end.

50And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

now she can go in peace without her sins hanging over her head.

yet I know the denominational doctrines don't teach this simple understanding

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

what is grace, what is the free gift?

the blood of Jesus

do you beleive(faith) in the blood of Jesus?

If you do then you are saved if you endure unto the end.

did you see the blood of Jesus, did you see Jesus this is faith

lets make it even more simple

lets read where thomas did not beleive until he did these things

John 20

26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my
hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 
28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

faith and works

Stickz · Nov 11, 2011

ozell,

I'm glad to see that someone else takes, at least, a little offense from some of his posts, as well. Jari, apparently doesn't understand how offensive telling other people that they aren't reading the Bible right, because they're not reading it how he does, can be, ozell. Basically telling us that we should all just be sitting back and taking notes from his posts, because he is the only one that truly understands how to interpret the scriptures correctly, should not bother us at all. Be careful though, ozell, or you'll somehow be the one to come out looking like the bad guy.

He's arrogant, ozell, but just remember that you do not have to get him to admit that he is wrong for you to be right.

lioncub · Nov 11, 2011

Jesus said many other things apart from believe. What else ?

1. Repent
2. be baptised in water
3. be born of the spirit

Peter also said many other things apart from believe. What else ?

1. Repent
2. be baptised in water
3. you shall receive the Holy Spirit
Acts 2:38.

I'm starting to see a pattern !

WaterRock · Nov 12, 2011

While the HOLY GHOST and GOD did not leave, I wouldn't step inside these sideshow bob churchs, all they try to do is brainwash into thinking 1+1=4 4*2=22
If it sounds like bull, smells like bull, that's what their selling.

Still great people out there thought, just don't rush

John 14:26
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
KJV
1 John 2:27
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
KJV

RJ · Nov 12, 2011

lioncub said:
Jesus said many other things apart from believe. What else ?

1. Repent
2. be baptised in water
3. be born of the spirit

Peter also said many other things apart from believe. What else ?

1. Repent
2. be baptised in water
3. you shall receive the Holy Spirit
Acts 2:38.

I'm starting to see a pattern !

1. Repent (Good)
2. be baptised in water ( Works, not of Faith, Not required for salvation. If this were so, it would put us right back under the Law and legalism, which God said He abolished)
3. be born of the spirit (Good)

rjones · Nov 12, 2011

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! James 2:9

If believing is enough then the demons are saved.

Ncdataman · Nov 12, 2011

I have been reading this thread for several days, I am starting to notice a very un-Christlike tone to the entire thread. Please remember my brothers and sisters, new believers and un-believers are reading your posts. I have no issue with your personal theology however this is not the right place to be flaming back and forth. The purpose of this site is to uplift God and enjoy the fellowship with brothers and sisters in Christ. One final thing always remember this rule from when you signed up

Our little motto...
a community for serious Christians & those who seek Jesus Christ
/:* Talk Jesus is Not a Debate Forum *:\

JRFifty · Nov 12, 2011

To be saved

What is faith? I believe the Bible is the word of God because I did in depth logical study. I deduced logically that creationism is correct and evolution is a lie. Next step how can i prove logically the bible is God's word Isaiah 44 sums it up. Another proof would be seeing gifts of the spirit in operation.
You can't just say i believe in the Bible based on an emotion with the abandonment of reason. As I studied i see how God's word is coming to pass and gives specific events of the end times and their right on schedule amazingly so.
Then I preyed and said I give up I'm not in control, I am a sinner.
First you have to believe in such a thing as sin. Psychology doesn't acknowledge sin at all. Then I said Yes Lord I believe Jesus is the son of God and died for my sins. I think its important that I made a choice to choose to try to good, making a real effort. Since then I've been at more peace and my mind has been cleaned.
So many people don't even believe in a creator; how are they gonna get saved. What is faith taking that step in believing in things not seen, as soon as you act on your faith, you have faith

David777 · Nov 12, 2011

Hello ozell.

Please read the following verses very carefully. I am sorry that
it is a long post but these verses should rectify problems
concerning the commandments.

Ephesians 2:8-18 (NKJV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works,
which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are
called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—

12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the
commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise,
having no hope and without God in the world.

13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been
brought near by the blood of Christ.

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has
broken down the middle wall of separation,

15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments
contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two,
thus making peace,

16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross,
thereby putting to death the enmity (the Law).

17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.

18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Abolished the enmity, the law of commandments.

agua · Nov 12, 2011

Eph 2:15-18 KJV Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; (16) And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (17) And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. (18) For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

These scriptures are used to suggest all commandments from God have been abolished. I don't believe this is what's really being said here.

I see the separation between Jew and gentile was because of the ceremonial and religious activities the Jews believed made them separate as God's people.

This separation, and jealousy, was not because of God's moral laws. It was the ceremonies/sacrifices/festivals etc that distinguished between them and these were fulfilled at the Cross/Resurrection and coming Parousia.

David777 · Nov 12, 2011

Hello agua.

It does say agua

"15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,"

I do believe this is very clear, i do not see any substance
in an argument for some kind of separation.

How do you see this verse and why?

agua · Nov 12, 2011

Eph 2:14-16 NKJV For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, (15) having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, (16) and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

The enmity being spoken of here is the anger/jealousy/separation between Jew and gentile which was enabled by Jewish rituals.

What do you suggest the enmity was David?

Oh yes... David I noticed you highlighted "the law of commandments" separating it from "contained in ordinances". Why?

David777 · Nov 12, 2011

Hello again agua.

Exactly what the verse says it is agua, "law of commandments".

This is not my view agua, this is what the verse states.

I do not adhere to a theology, I just read the scriptures.

Do you have any supporting scripture?

agua · Nov 12, 2011

I understand what you see David but you can't separate " the law of commands" from " contained in ordinances." The passage we are looking at deals with how Jesus made both Jew and gentile one in Him.

Eph 2:14 NKJV For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,

The "middle wall of separation" describes the things that kept the Jew and Gentile separate.

Backtrack a bit and read the preceding scriptures.

Eph 2:11-13 NKJV Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— (12) that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. (13) But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

We can see how the Jews called the Gentiles "uncircumscision" as a derogatory term. Under Christ circumcision is no longer required as it is one of the "law of commandments contained in ordinances".

Read the whole chapter and check it out.

David777 · Nov 13, 2011

Dear agua.

You said,

"The enmity being spoken of here is the anger/jealousy/separation between Jew and gentile which was enabled by Jewish rituals."

My problem with your interpretation is that the verse does not
say what you said.

Gentiles never were members of the Jewish nation hence they
were called the Uncircumcised. They were also called filthy
sinners. They did not have the moral laws only civil laws.

Since when has a Gentile been a part of the Old Covenant?

agua · Nov 13, 2011

The enmity was present because the Jews believed only they were favoured by God and this was shown outwardly by their ceremonies and rituals. They held this over the Gentiles and belittled them because of this. The gentiles, in return, felt scorn towards the Jews because of this derision. The Gentiles were never part of Israel.

Gentiles could also live by God's moral laws as is seen in Romans 2.

Rom 2:12-16 NKJV For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (13) (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; (14) for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, (15) who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) (16) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Ephesians 2 deals with the enmity between Jew and Gentile being removed by Christ's sacrifice.

Eph 2:11-15 NKJV Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— (12) that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. (13) But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. (14) For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, (15) having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,

David. What do you think this enmity was?

Oh I forgot to answer your question about Gentiles being part of the Old Covenant.
Gentiles were never bound by the rituals of Israel but as we see in Romans 2 they have always been judged by God's moral laws.

David777 · Nov 13, 2011

Hello again.

You stated agua:

"Gentiles could also live by God's moral laws as is seen in Romans 2."

Romans 2 does not say that the Gentiles could live by
God's moral laws.

It says "For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law".

I will deal with your previous post one line at a time if you do not
mind. This avoids the theology overload.

agua · Nov 13, 2011

Ok David.

Please answer the question about enmity please.

Eph 2:15-16 NKJV having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, (16) and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

Jesus reconciled the Jew and Gentile by putting to death this enmity.

What do you say this enmity was?

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