4wheelpeel
Member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2011
- Messages
- 21
this might be a easy question but did God know that eve was going to eat the apple.
Any hard questions?
- Thread starter David777
- Start date
SpiritLedEd
Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2005
- Messages
- 5,315
The answer is "yes". However, God does not use His foreknowledge of events to interfere with our free will, even when we are using that free will to act contrary to His will.
SLE
That depends on if it was an apple. : p
4wheelpeel
Member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2011
- Messages
- 21
so then why did he create us if He knew that some would perish. why not create us in heaven where everyone would know that there is a true God.
Sonseeahray
Member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2011
- Messages
- 32
<style type="text/css">*<!-- @page { margin: 0.79in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } --> </style> Good question. Consider this...
God created the angels. How many were there? Probably billions - I don't know. These angels knew the Godhead face to face. They saw the goodness and holiness of God for how long - possibly billions of years - again I don't know. They also have a free will as does all of God's created beings.
When evil materialized with Lucifer - he convinced a third of these angels to follow him in rebellion against God. So just being in Heaven in the presence of God doesn't work either. To act in rebellion which was to blaspheme the Godhead - an unforgivable transgression. They could never come back – there was no way.
Sonseeahray
Member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2011
- Messages
- 32
Actually it was the fig.
4wheelpeel
Member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2011
- Messages
- 21
yeah ive actually thought about the whole lucifer taking 1/3 of the angels thing so even seeing God and being in heaven wouldnt be enough for some people, but was wondering if there was anything in the bible about why God created us when he knew some would perish.
Thiscrosshurts
Active
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2011
- Messages
- 1,630
I would venture to say that the Holy Spirit is working in you and causing you to examine the things we have bought into without researching ourselves.
Can anyone prove that Lucifer is a fallen angel that took 1/3 of the angels with him or is this an elaborate story that we have been sold as truth.
As far as I'm concerned I believe God's will SHALL be done and that's why I can pray for it.Because I know it's his will.
Quite simply if it's not his will that any should perish and God's will shall be done then "NONE" shall perish and if I say some will then I void my prayer for his will.
Hello 4wheelpeel
Have you heard of the saying "It is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all". This is the same for life, it is better to have had the GIFT of life and lost than to have never been given life.
The free gift of life eternal in paradise awaits anyone who is willing to believe in Jesus. If not then you will return to the state of non existence.
Life is above all a gift.
Have you heard of the saying "It is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all". This is the same for life, it is better to have had the GIFT of life and lost than to have never been given life.
The free gift of life eternal in paradise awaits anyone who is willing to believe in Jesus. If not then you will return to the state of non existence.
Life is above all a gift.
Dear Will
That is the key verse on which the concept of eternal damnation rests.
Also consider that the apostle Paul considered the return of Christ would initiate the destruction of the antichrist and the unbelievers.
see "2 Thessalonians 1:9".
I would be hesitant to build a doctrine on the basis of a few lines of scripture. Thus, I remain unconvinced on eternal suffering as it seems to contradict the nature of Jesus Christ. Although, if it were true then God has decided so and who am I to argue.
If you have any additional thoughts on this issue I would love to hear them Will.
This is a very difficult question, in fact for me impossible to answer.
That is the key verse on which the concept of eternal damnation rests.
Also consider that the apostle Paul considered the return of Christ would initiate the destruction of the antichrist and the unbelievers.
see "2 Thessalonians 1:9".
I would be hesitant to build a doctrine on the basis of a few lines of scripture. Thus, I remain unconvinced on eternal suffering as it seems to contradict the nature of Jesus Christ. Although, if it were true then God has decided so and who am I to argue.
If you have any additional thoughts on this issue I would love to hear them Will.
This is a very difficult question, in fact for me impossible to answer.
Rev 12:4-9 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. (5) She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. (6) Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days. (7) And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, (8) but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. (9) So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
This parallel gives us the 1/3 of angels idea.
It isn't God's desire that any should perish. Our Lord is perfectly just and has provided a way to freedom for everyone. Unfortunately many turn their backs to Him.
1Ti 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, (4) who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Our gracious Lord has given everyone the opportunity to see Him. Not everyone gives Him credit for life and creation and they won't inherit eternal life. : (
Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Yes you are right God is just, and in being just He judges righteously.
So what are the unbelievers judged on, their sin? Their unbelief? Their rebellion?
Their sin is judged because of their rebellion and unbelief.
Heb 3:14-19 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, (15) while it is said: "TODAY, IF YOU WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS IN THE REBELLION." (16) For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? (17) Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? (18) And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? (19) So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Is that correct jiggy?
So according to the scriptures what is the just punishment for sin?
Death is the just punishment.
Yes indeed, so if death is the just punishment would a righteous Judge sentence anyone to unending torture/torment for sin?
Nope.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Thiscrosshurts
Active
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2011
- Messages
- 1,630
This speaks of the dragons tail and stars of heaven.
Is there any scripture that tells us Lucifer was an angel or that the stars are angels.
Isaiah 34:4 All the stars of the heavens will be dissolved and the sky rolled up like a scroll;
The stars will be dissolved,I don't see any evidence that angels are not eternal.
Rev 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
Jesus is a perfect man and he claims the title bright morning star.
Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
I have seen Rev 2:1 used as proof that the stars are angels but I don't see that as solid evidence.I see this as the candle stick being the light on the earth and the stars being a light in the heavens.
They could both be the light of the church.
Gen. 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
If Josephs dream was from God then believers are the stars.
Rev 12:4-9 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth
That took place in the old Heaven , when satan was kicked out! We know he went before the LORD in JOB! We do not know when Job was written? But we Might understand this satan and the 1/3 of evil angels were kicked out and by entering the old heaven defiled by by being sinners! I am just guessing, But think by them entering it they defiled it and that is why He created a New Heaven [New Jerusalem] where they cannot enter now!
Nothing evil can enter the New Heaven! These fallen angels [demons] are Very Evil and vile !
Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, t
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Chapter 11 reveals judge day !
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Chapter 12 starts telling about the same story all over again ! in chapter 10:6 we see Time is no more !
We know we are going to have perfect Peace on the earth for the 1000 years we rule here with our LORD! We know we go to heaven , while HIS wrath is poured out on this planet!
I personally believe we are in the days of Sorrows , Just before the catching away and then the Wrath of God begins on this Planet! I do not believe HE can pour out HIS wrath on US!
I do not mind if others think differently! I planing on going Up and Meet HIM in the AIR .Then returning here with HIM after He has Finished pouring out HIS WRATH!
That took place in the old Heaven , when satan was kicked out! We know he went before the LORD in JOB! We do not know when Job was written? But we Might understand this satan and the 1/3 of evil angels were kicked out and by entering the old heaven defiled by by being sinners! I am just guessing, But think by them entering it they defiled it and that is why He created a New Heaven [New Jerusalem] where they cannot enter now!
Nothing evil can enter the New Heaven! These fallen angels [demons] are Very Evil and vile !
Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, t
he mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Chapter 11 reveals judge day !
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Chapter 12 starts telling about the same story all over again ! in chapter 10:6 we see Time is no more !
We know we are going to have perfect Peace on the earth for the 1000 years we rule here with our LORD! We know we go to heaven , while HIS wrath is poured out on this planet!
I personally believe we are in the days of Sorrows , Just before the catching away and then the Wrath of God begins on this Planet! I do not believe HE can pour out HIS wrath on US!
I do not mind if others think differently! I planing on going Up and Meet HIM in the AIR .Then returning here with HIM after He has Finished pouring out HIS WRATH!
