Any hard questions?
Member
Aw David, this is why I love you so 
I love looking up
hard questions and even though it hurts to get
a blunt answer, it is part of the pruning process of Jesus
wanting us to produce fruit right?
I have been wondering this for a while, and have cried
over this, wanting so bad for it to happen to me, but then
I felt I was testing God.
My question for you: Does God speak to people?
I love looking up hard questions and even though it hurts to get
a blunt answer, it is part of the pruning process of Jesus
wanting us to produce fruit right?
I have been wondering this for a while, and have cried
over this, wanting so bad for it to happen to me, but then
I felt I was testing God.
My question for you: Does God speak to people?
Member
Hello Dannibear.
In many and various ways of course.
1. Through the living Word we have the very words of God.
2. Through the Holy Spirit within us.
3. Sometimes audible, my pastor was spoken to once audibly by God.
4. Through other Christians.
5. Via prophets.
6. Probably the greatest way I have heard the words of God is thru the kind acts of fellow Christians. This is the Word of God, love from a pure heart, this I have seen and heard.
Oh how deeply Jesus loves you Dannibear, ask and you will receive.
In many and various ways of course.
1. Through the living Word we have the very words of God.
2. Through the Holy Spirit within us.
3. Sometimes audible, my pastor was spoken to once audibly by God.
4. Through other Christians.
5. Via prophets.
6. Probably the greatest way I have heard the words of God is thru the kind acts of fellow Christians. This is the Word of God, love from a pure heart, this I have seen and heard.
Oh how deeply Jesus loves you Dannibear, ask and you will receive.
Member
Here's a hard question for you: why?
Active
We say God's will shall be done and we pray that God's will be done.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
According to Peter it's not God's will that ANY should perish.
Yet Christianity teaches that most will burn in hell for eternity without any chance for change or repentance.
So how does that work.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
According to Peter it's not God's will that ANY should perish.
Yet Christianity teaches that most will burn in hell for eternity without any chance for change or repentance.
So how does that work.
Member
And What?
Yet Christianity teaches that most will burn in hell for eternity without any chance for change or repentance.
Christianity doesn't teach " Without A Chance".
(KJV)Romans 1:20-21
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(KJV)John 1:5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
(KJV)Isaiah 60:1-5
Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. [2] For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. [3] And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. [4] Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side. [5] Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
In no means is it without a chance.
Yet Christianity teaches that most will burn in hell for eternity without any chance for change or repentance.
Christianity doesn't teach " Without A Chance".
(KJV)Romans 1:20-21
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(KJV)John 1:5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
(KJV)Isaiah 60:1-5
Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. [2] For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. [3] And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. [4] Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side. [5] Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
In no means is it without a chance.
Member
I think you misunderstood Thiscrosshurts' post Troy. I think he was pointing out that the teaching indicates that after one goes to hell there is no chance.
Active
Next question....you have to take a deep breathe for this one, not respond in 30mins or less ( shows you took time to research it ).
Here it is.
Is there a spiritual israel ?
I'm going to give verses within the NEW Testament, after you answer the first, see if the verses in anyway relates to the question and your answer. Give additional scripture from the new testament.
This is for David after he answers then others can comment.
......................................................
Galatians 6:15-16
King James Version (KJV)
15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Galatians 6:15-16
King James Version (KJV)
15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
...........................................
Ephesians 2:11-13
King James Version (KJV)
11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
..........................................................
Romans 2
23Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Here it is.
Is there a spiritual israel ?
I'm going to give verses within the NEW Testament, after you answer the first, see if the verses in anyway relates to the question and your answer. Give additional scripture from the new testament.
This is for David after he answers then others can comment.
......................................................
Galatians 6:15-16
King James Version (KJV)
15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Galatians 6:15-16
King James Version (KJV)
15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
...........................................
Ephesians 2:11-13
King James Version (KJV)
11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
..........................................................
Romans 2
23Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
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Active
No,I can't prove that using scripture,that is why I question why Christians teach so.In fact my question is nothing but repeating what I feel is error.
First of all the definition of "eternity" is no beginning and no end.So I could never figure out how people are injected into it,because that would be a beginning.
Second the word "Hell" is an unfortunate translation.Scripture refers to the grave or Gehenna.Jews did not believe in the Greek mythological Hell.
Thirdly in the book of Revelation Death,hell(Gehenna),the grave and the sea give up their dead when the judgement takes place.Death,hell and the grave are thrown in the lake of fire so death ,hell and the grave are not eternal.
I suppose I should have asked why Christians teach this and not Christianity.
Member
Aw David, this is why I love you so
hard questions and even though it hurts to get
a blunt answer, it is part of the pruning process of Jesus
wanting us to produce fruit right?
I have been wondering this for a while, and have cried
over this, wanting so bad for it to happen to me, but then
I felt I was testing God.
My question for you: Does God speak to people?
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am.
i have found it takes about three full days water only ,praying for His help to get us past that 2nd day !Reading the Bible !
On that third day He speaks to us and we Hear HIM WELL!
I told a old catholic lady this once and she fasted and on the third day HE spoke to her! she was in her 70s And had obeyed everything those priests had told Her from a child ,but had Never heard the LORD ! she was so happy He spoke to her !
Mar 2:20 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
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Member
Hell is Only a holding place for those who have REJECTED HIS FREE GIFT OF ETERNAL life
the Lake of fire is eternal1 and Yes it gods will none should perish!
I have lots of thoughts on the judgment day!I would rather not post !
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But we know? Those who take the mark of the beast will go to the Lake of Fire for sure
Member
The definition of hell taught by most modern churches has always confused me. Modern Christian doctrine teaches eternal punishment in a torturous hell and that Jesus went there. The KJV even uses "hell" instead of "sheol" in psalm 16 to indicate this. The passages about Jesus being in "hell" are obviously about Him being in the grave and hence defeating death by rising. Halelujah!
Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Most also say Jesus went to hell and preached to spirits there during His time in the grave. I am never really certain who they claim these spirits are. Some say demons, some say the unsaved dead people.
If you believe we are immortal then you must build a doctrine to suit, and it must accommodate those who are not saved. It is considered heresy by many not to believe this.
The passage in 1Peter is one in particular that amazes me is used by many to teach about hell and our immortality.
1Pe 3:18-20 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, (19) by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, (20) who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
Who were these spirits in prison?
Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Most also say Jesus went to hell and preached to spirits there during His time in the grave. I am never really certain who they claim these spirits are. Some say demons, some say the unsaved dead people.
If you believe we are immortal then you must build a doctrine to suit, and it must accommodate those who are not saved. It is considered heresy by many not to believe this.
The passage in 1Peter is one in particular that amazes me is used by many to teach about hell and our immortality.
1Pe 3:18-20 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, (19) by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, (20) who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
Who were these spirits in prison?
Member
David,
What do you think Revelation 20:11-15 convey to us then?
Who are these people who will be thrown into the lake of fire (like the Serpent, Beast, and False Prophet in the verses prior to this)?
Member
All the spirits of People Before the LORD went back to Heaven and then He sent back the Holy GHOST! Everyone went to Hell to await the messiah to come and die and raise back from the DEAD! there was a gpood part of Hell and Bad part !
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
Perfect means a New spirit that is Free of sin!
Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
He had to die on the Cross first and then go back to heaven ! before Anyone could have Salvation !
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Both were in Hell A good part and bad part!
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
The New Testament only Started After The LORD died on the Cross and rose from the dead Back to heaven! No one was saved [Born -Again] Till He sent Back the Holy Ghost Who is GODS POWER and give this New eternal life to believers!
that is when those who were freed from Hell [Paradise too,both parts] were Freed!
These 120 Got salvation!
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
They were in there Spiritual bodies! Not flesh and blood!
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
they were freed from Hell! But Could Not go to Heaven Til Our LORD went First! Our Lord Had to do all things First! Did we can follow HIM!
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
Perfect means a New spirit that is Free of sin!
Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy
they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
He had to die on the Cross first and then go back to heaven ! before Anyone could have Salvation !
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Both were in Hell A good part and bad part!
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
The New Testament only Started After The LORD died on the Cross and rose from the dead Back to heaven! No one was saved [Born -Again] Till He sent Back the Holy Ghost Who is GODS POWER and give this New eternal life to believers!
that is when those who were freed from Hell [Paradise too,both parts] were Freed!
These 120 Got salvation!
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
They were in there Spiritual bodies! Not flesh and blood!
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
they were freed from Hell! But Could Not go to Heaven Til Our LORD went First! Our Lord Had to do all things First! Did we can follow HIM!
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Active
No doctrine I have heard has explained it at all.
It's much easier to find flaw than the truth.
I have not formed any doctrine but I have a series of questions that seem to form a shadow of truth.
Eternal means always,always was always is always will be.
I can't conceive of anything being added or taken away.
As far as I can see we were always with God if we ever will be.
We could be the "stones" of fire that were there at the beginning.
If that's the case I don't see how any act of mine can get me there or get me thrown out.Unless science is right and there are multiverses and my actions create a new universe.
So eternal torment can't be for a transgression since we need time for a transgression to take place.Unless science is right and there are multiverses and my actions create a new universe.
They were both in the grave,Sheol,the abode of the dead.
They are awaiting the resurrection.Jesus also said they sleep.
Which infers that they will awake.
All those are things/ways/mindsets,not people.
There is a beast way of thinking and acting.
There is a way of serpent/serpentine or wavering thinking.
God is an all consuming fire and all things will return to him so in a sense we will all burn in and with him.