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what's the difference between rapture and the second coming??
difference between rapture and the second coming
Member
Rapture and 2nd coming.
We don't really have a term for a "Second Coming" In the Bible.
If you believe God keeps his Word... and we escape the Tribulation, then Jesus will Come for the Church before Tribulation.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Right before the Flood hits, we are taken... (Rapture- Latin Word for taken suddenly from the Greek Harpazo which means to Snatch.)
Everything is quite... peaceful..... then Bam!!! destruction..... Tribulation like the earth has never seen before... We are taken and some are left.. to face the destruction..
Jesus gave a set of instructions to the Jews that keep the Sabbath to flee in the mountains, and wait it out until the End of Tribulation....
Jesus Instruction to the Jews
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
1) Watch for the temple being built
2) Flee!!! A great tribulation is about to start!!! run for your lives and hope it's not on a Sabbath day breaking your traditions.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
After the Seventh Angelic Trumpet blast which ends the Tribulation, the sun goes dark, and the moon not give light Jesus comes Immediately...... with the Angels to reap the Earth.
Jesus Instruction to the Church. (Those that call him Lord)
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
There will be no Warning when the Lord comes for us, just like in the days of Noah... After we are taken to be with him, then Sudden destruction comes.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
All this is a little too complex for some, so they just lump everything together... The resurrection(s), When Jesus comes and put it at the end of the Tribulation.... They also miss the marriage supper we will be enjoying, but Hey... We can save them some when they finally do arrive.. right??
Jesus Is Lord.
We don't really have a term for a "Second Coming" In the Bible.
If you believe God keeps his Word... and we escape the Tribulation, then Jesus will Come for the Church before Tribulation.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Right before the Flood hits, we are taken... (Rapture- Latin Word for taken suddenly from the Greek Harpazo which means to Snatch.)
Everything is quite... peaceful..... then Bam!!! destruction..... Tribulation like the earth has never seen before... We are taken and some are left.. to face the destruction..
Jesus gave a set of instructions to the Jews that keep the Sabbath to flee in the mountains, and wait it out until the End of Tribulation....
Jesus Instruction to the Jews
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
1) Watch for the temple being built
2) Flee!!! A great tribulation is about to start!!! run for your lives and hope it's not on a Sabbath day breaking your traditions.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
After the Seventh Angelic Trumpet blast which ends the Tribulation, the sun goes dark, and the moon not give light Jesus comes Immediately...... with the Angels to reap the Earth.
Jesus Instruction to the Church. (Those that call him Lord)
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
There will be no Warning when the Lord comes for us, just like in the days of Noah... After we are taken to be with him, then Sudden destruction comes.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
All this is a little too complex for some, so they just lump everything together... The resurrection(s), When Jesus comes and put it at the end of the Tribulation.... They also miss the marriage supper we will be enjoying, but Hey... We can save them some when they finally do arrive.. right??
Jesus Is Lord.
Member
The same
I'll ask if we can save you some food since you won't be attending the Marriage supper... Should be in a box just outside your mansion door once you show up..
Jesus Is Lord.
I'll ask if we can save you some food since you won't be attending the Marriage supper... Should be in a box just outside your mansion door once you show up..
Jesus Is Lord.
Member
thank you brother mike, for the detailed answer, sure helped.
Member
Sorry, meant to add a new post and posted here by mistake (sheepish grin)
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*We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died.* 16*For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the Christians who have died* will rise from their graves. 17*Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
New Living Translation. 1 Th 4:15-17
To me this suggests that Jesus does not "return to the earth", but we are raised up to the clouds to meet Him.
Then I saw heaven opened, and a white horse was standing there. Its rider was named Faithful and True, for he judges fairly and wages a righteous war. 12*His eyes were like flames of fire, and on his head were many crowns. A name was written on him that no one understood except himself. 13*He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his title was the Word of God. 14*The armies of heaven, dressed in the finest of pure white linen, followed him on white horses. 15*From his mouth came a sharp sword to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He will release the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty, like juice flowing from a winepress. 16*On his robe at his thigh* was written this title: King of all kings and Lord of all lords.
This to me suggests the second coming of Jesus; to overcome His final enemies.
New Living Translation.Re 19:11-16
Loyal
I think both Macca and Bro Mike are pretty close. Whether we meet in the air or get pulled up from the ground doesn't make much difference to me. I just want to go before the tribulation.
Second coming means different things to different people.
To many (including myself) the first coming was when Jesus came to the Jews 2000 years ago. The second coming would be the rapture, as Bro Mike and Macca have posted above. The third coming would be after the tribulation when Jesus defeats the beast and Satan and throws Satan in prison for 1000 years. Jesus then reigns for another 1000 years. After this there is another battle, Satan is defeated once and for all and thrown into the Lake of fire.
To some people, they count the rapture as the first coming, and the millennial reign as the second coming (my question to them would be, what do you call the time Jesus spent on Earth 2000 years ago? The before the 1st coming?)
Still others don't believe there will be a rapture before the tribulation. So the 1st coming was when Jesus came 2000 years ago. The 2nd coming will be at the millennial reign. There are so many verses about the rapture I'm not sure how they get around them all, but...
Finally there are those like Macca who don't count the rapture as a time Jesus "came to earth" but rather gathers the saints to meet him in the clouds. There are scriptures to support this depending on how you interpret them. So the millennial reign would be the second coming in this scenario as well.
Second coming means different things to different people.
To many (including myself) the first coming was when Jesus came to the Jews 2000 years ago. The second coming would be the rapture, as Bro Mike and Macca have posted above. The third coming would be after the tribulation when Jesus defeats the beast and Satan and throws Satan in prison for 1000 years. Jesus then reigns for another 1000 years. After this there is another battle, Satan is defeated once and for all and thrown into the Lake of fire.
To some people, they count the rapture as the first coming, and the millennial reign as the second coming (my question to them would be, what do you call the time Jesus spent on Earth 2000 years ago? The before the 1st coming?)
Still others don't believe there will be a rapture before the tribulation. So the 1st coming was when Jesus came 2000 years ago. The 2nd coming will be at the millennial reign. There are so many verses about the rapture I'm not sure how they get around them all, but...
Finally there are those like Macca who don't count the rapture as a time Jesus "came to earth" but rather gathers the saints to meet him in the clouds. There are scriptures to support this depending on how you interpret them. So the millennial reign would be the second coming in this scenario as well.
Member
This thread..........
Thank you B-A-C for the awesome input.
This thread somehow came back to life seeing it start in Aug of last year. This same discussion can also be found in this thread.
http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-study-hall/40565-trying-understand-mat-24-a-4.html
Jesus Is Lord.
Thank you B-A-C for the awesome input.
This thread somehow came back to life seeing it start in Aug of last year. This same discussion can also be found in this thread.
http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-study-hall/40565-trying-understand-mat-24-a-4.html
Jesus Is Lord.
Member
Rapture = Second Coming
And there is no Third coming in the Bible. There is only the coming of the Lord.
Not sure how this thread fits in 'Ethics' but...
Just as there is no "Second" coming in the Bible, neither do we have "Rapture." This word originates from the Latin Vulgate translation.
The Biblical term is 'parousia' [coming] and this is the term used in 1 Thess. 4 and in Mat 24:30. Paul is writing about the same event in 1 Cor. 15:51 where he says that 'we shall all not sleep but all be changed in the twinkling of an eye at the LAST trumpet.'
In 1 Thess., Paul is addressing the concern that maybe those who have already died are now at a disadvantage. But Paul assures them that when the Lord comes, there is no disadvantage.
To invent the 'secret Rapture' out of this takes a lot of fancy footwork, and, changing metaphors, it does not hold water. It is a 19th Century invention.
The picture in Thess. of going to meet the Lord in the clouds is the figure of the citizens of a city going out to welcome a coming dignitary or conqueror to escort him back to the city.
See F.F. Bruce's commentary.
And there is no Third coming in the Bible. There is only the coming of the Lord.
Yes.
Not sure how this thread fits in 'Ethics' but...
Just as there is no "Second" coming in the Bible, neither do we have "Rapture." This word originates from the Latin Vulgate translation.
The Biblical term is 'parousia' [coming] and this is the term used in 1 Thess. 4 and in Mat 24:30. Paul is writing about the same event in 1 Cor. 15:51 where he says that 'we shall all not sleep but all be changed in the twinkling of an eye at the LAST trumpet.'
In 1 Thess., Paul is addressing the concern that maybe those who have already died are now at a disadvantage. But Paul assures them that when the Lord comes, there is no disadvantage.
To invent the 'secret Rapture' out of this takes a lot of fancy footwork, and, changing metaphors, it does not hold water. It is a 19th Century invention.
The picture in Thess. of going to meet the Lord in the clouds is the figure of the citizens of a city going out to welcome a coming dignitary or conqueror to escort him back to the city.
See F.F. Bruce's commentary.
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Maybe some confusion of terminology here. No one is saying that Jesus does NOT come back on the clouds and gather the elect. "Rapture" refers to the unsound teaching of the secret rapture like in the Left Behind movie where people disappear from airplanes etc and nobody else sees this 'secret' return that is NOT the second coming.
In Mat 24, the disciples ask Jesus "what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
And at the end he says, “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
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i have always used rapture to refer to the day Jesus comes back to get us. but this and other terms do differ a lot by the user.
its confusing when people have different terms.
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The word rapture as referring to Christianity is being "Caught up" such as we read in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord, and Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
There will be a difference in Jesus coming to meet saints in the air, and coming back where every eye shall see Him.
I believe that Jesus will appear with saints; a great cloud of witnesses. One meaning of the word "Cloud" in Strong's is: 1) a cloud, a large dense multitude, a throng. (Multitude)
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses . . .
An excerpt from Gene Hawkin's "Prophesy Study of Revelation" concerning this is as follows:
Revelation 1:7. "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." This is the theme which is the Revelation of Christ from heaven and the key as to the purpose of this book. It is to announce and to push Him forth that "Behold, he cometh with clouds." That is the end result and what redemption and all these wonderful purposes of God are to see to it that Christ comes with clouds where "Every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him." This is a very inclusive verse that really announces the purpose and the literal theme for this book.
So let us first examine this "Behold, he cometh with clouds." Those clouds are indeed the clouds of the saints to appear with Jesus. In Hebrews 12:1 we see this. "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses," or we are surrounded or confronted as Paul is talking about those worthies of faith and He calls them a cloud of witnesses. These clouds are in realty redeemed humanity that is already in heaven at that time when Christ comes. Now it is important to realize that this verse is not going to be fulfilled until much later so to speak and I'll explain what I mean by that here in just a moment, but keep in mind right now that the saints are actually the clouds that are going to be coming with Christ. They are a part of Christ's glory, a part of His reign, a part of His heavenly kingdom, and a part of His entourage that just add to His dominion and glory. And of course they have already been translated by this time.
Now you will notice that "He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him." There are three different groups we are talking about here that are going to see Him. The first one "Every eye shall see him" means that all believers then on the earth will be looking for Him. We need to keep this verse in mind because we're going to contrast it with another verse here in just a moment and notice how clear that the scriptures are in so far as the coming of Christ is concerned. This is pointing to a time when Christ makes this appearance with all these clouds to all believers that are then on the earth.
Number two. "They also which pierced him." Well that's easy of interpretation because that's the nation of Israel as a nation that are going to look upon Him Whom they have pierced, and of course they will be a nation born in one day.
Number three. "All kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him." That is a wail of grief and terror and it refers to the unsaved on the earth at that time and He is not a welcome sight. We read of this in Matthew 24:27, "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be," and that is going to be a time of judgment. Well those who are on the earth at that time who are not a part of the elect are not saved, and that is going to be a time of real wailing and weeping and despair and grief for them. Now notice how John finishes up. "Even so, Amen." He announces all of this wailing going on and says so be it, or amen to it. It doesn't seem like he has a whole lot of compassion for those that are weeping and wailing. Well He shouldn't because you see he is in sympathy with God.
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The rapture theory is filled with a lot of holes. We need to believe what the Bible says and not man made speculation.
The Rapture idea doesn't make any sense if the dead in Christ (already buried) rise first and then we the Saints(believers) that are alive are transformed into spiritual bodies and together we all meet the Lord in the air.
If we all are now spiritual and immortal we don't have to be protected or rescued from anything that the physical world or realm might inflict on us.
What would a rapture be saving us from?
The Rapture idea doesn't make any sense if the dead in Christ (already buried) rise first and then we the Saints(believers) that are alive are transformed into spiritual bodies and together we all meet the Lord in the air.
If we all are now spiritual and immortal we don't have to be protected or rescued from anything that the physical world or realm might inflict on us.
What would a rapture be saving us from?
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I can't help smile at this because man made speculation is exactly what you're using, and many times I find myself doing that same thing when you say "The Rapture idea doesn't make any sense."
We do not go by sight, but by faith. To be caught up to God's throne does not have to be fully understood and we may never agree on its timing, but believed. The problem we should have if any is making sure we are ready by allowing God to make us into what He wants us to be, and that is to be conformed into the image of His son. Even at this present time God is fulfilling the righteousness of the law in us (Not by us) who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:4)
You speak of the dead in Christ rising first, and that is true but then you make the comment concerning those that are alive as being saints. Do you realize that those that die in Christ are also saints? As the elect whether alive or dead we will be changed and those who go before us only receive their bodies from the grave; to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Even the Old Testament saints of paradise are in heaven now though their bodies remain in the grave. (Luke 23:43)(2 Corinthians 12:4).
My thoughts.
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As we know the Rapture is a relatively new idea put together by mainly non -theologians in the last couple of hundred years.
Matt 24 and 1st thess 4 are describing the same event.
So true christians dead and alive at the time of Christs return rise to meet Christ in the clouds to welcome Him and accompany Him back to earth where He will be standing on the Mount of Olives. We will be ruling with Christ on earth, There is nothing that says we will be gone to Heaven. Zech14:4, Acts1:9-11, Rev11;15, Dan7:13-14, 27
There will be no secret rapture or snatching- voices of heaven will be announcing the second coming and the trumpets will be blowing-all nations will see and hear it.
The saints are not going back to heaven , they are joining Christ on earth to rule along side Him -Jesus is returning to save mankind from destroying themselves.
The main theme of Revelation is the coming Kingdom of God to be set up on this earth and the destruction of evil, Rev-Chapters 21, 22
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rapture.
Judgenot:
Wait a minute. You said in the Hell for non believers thread that there is no Eternal Hell, if there is no eternal Hell, then you can't possibly believe in any spiritual body, or immortality. I can Highlight some thing you posted about that.
It's hard to take someone serious who is not even sure of what they believe.
The coming of the Kingdom of God is for the destruction of evil. The Kingdom of God comes during Rev.
Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save
Luk 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
So since the Kingdom of God is coming during Tribulation in the Book of Revelation, then How Jesus cast out them devils???
What scripture do we have that the Kingdom of God is going to destroy evil?
Jesus Is Lord.
Judgenot:
Wait a minute. You said in the Hell for non believers thread that there is no Eternal Hell, if there is no eternal Hell, then you can't possibly believe in any spiritual body, or immortality. I can Highlight some thing you posted about that.
It's hard to take someone serious who is not even sure of what they believe.
The coming of the Kingdom of God is for the destruction of evil. The Kingdom of God comes during Rev.
Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save
Luk 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
So since the Kingdom of God is coming during Tribulation in the Book of Revelation, then How Jesus cast out them devils???
What scripture do we have that the Kingdom of God is going to destroy evil?
Jesus Is Lord.
Member
to my understanding none. the word "rapture" isnt actually in scripture. in the greek language the word is rapturo. literally it translates "caught up" as in caught up in the clouds. Christ already came to earth once. when He comes back it will be the second coming. this is when we will be caught up in the clouds.
i dont like the word rapture. do a google search on the name margret mcdonald to see the orgin of the word rapture and pre-trib rapture.
not trying to start a debate, but the threads question was about whats the difference. i could include scriptures about what i believe about "rapture" (post-tribber right here) but i am not. because its off topic.
i find it interesting we all draw from the same well and yet we dont agree on the when, however Jesus said no man knows the hour. and yet we get "caught up" in it.