Baptist Doctrine??!!!!!!!

[Brother Mike]

Thank you Brother..

Blessings RJ... first your my elder... (not that your old) but respect for your wisdom and know that you will do the right thing...

I will leave you with this one thought. If this happens in my church, in my time, how do I know that God may not want me to stay and openly object to it or atleast until I am run out?

God has always given men over to a reprobate mind, or things they want to do.... The majority rules, and God will just let them have it their way, sending a strong delusion that they may believe a lie....

For you to stand and fight against what people want, despite what the word does say is a loosing battle....

However the scripture also says this....

Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

While you might not be able to pull the whole denomination out of the drink.... God would use you when the time is right in a powerful way, making the difference to many....

When is the time??

God said ask, and he will give wisdom... trust in that... at the right time, and right events, you will know what to do as if a Neon sign was giving you direction.. No doubt, or worry, God is faithful....

That is exactly what will happen...... and many will be blessed, being pulled out of the fire....

God bless you!!!

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[ushalk]

The Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, and the list continues to grow, not counting the "Other" immoral congregations out there.

I agree this is a sad time for the church Universal. I was deeply concerned when the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church recently changed their stance on homosexuality and even changed the wording in their Book Of Order and remove that the definition of a marriage is a union between a man and a woman; how secularism continues to creep into our midst.

I don't agree with the immoral congregation statement though, that's for God to decide; every church is full of sinners for all sorts of reasons. As it stands now our Presbyterian Church has the right to not allow gay marriages or Pastors but this is probably a matter of time before something changes that too, like a law suit!
When it does or if it does that , I am gone and probably will go to a non-denominational church. For right now , mine still preaches the Bible and Jesus Christ.

some will keep preaching the truth even unto their death. i lhope that yours is one of them.

 

[ushalk]

Thank you RJ...


While this may seem a harsh statement, and it is.... I think any assosiation with any denomination that has to feel they even have a need to pass a gay vote, or anything else that we know and fully understand to be wrong.... needs to be forsaken...

Sitting in a congregation where they teach there is no more healing, and the gifts are long gone... is lots different than saying it's Good in God's eyes to be homosexual... like apples and Oranges.. Living your life crucified before the Lord, and being an example and light is the important thing... When that gets violated, then time to go..

By supporting in presence, money and any connection would be in agreement where that denomination is Going, even it you meant to do so or not...

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Jesus Is Lord.

i love this hard truth. can i use this comment in a bulk email? you are right on target.

 

[ushalk]

Sitting in a congregation where they teach there is no more healing, and the gifts are long gone..
I see your point and can appreciate it but you have no knowledge how my congregation is reacting to this problem much less have the knowledge to make the above statement.
The Lord and I will deal with it as I feel instructed to do for the time being. As far as pulling my money out, what happens to my share that goes to worthy causes like local food pantries and soup kitchens, 2 wrongs don't make a right!

Besides, if the truth be known, these food pantries and soup kitchens could very likely be used by homosexuals and other sinners and probably are as far as I know. So, let's say that this is true, do I go ahead and pull my support for that now?

So , according to your statement: Living your life crucified before the Lord, and being an example and light is the important thing... When that gets violated, then time to go.. So with the pantries and kitchens, I should leave for that alone, what is the difference?
Also, are you saying, just based on what I have said, that I am not an example of or giving off the light of Christ.
No offense but I think your view of what is being an example or light is distorted and not biblical. I don't know if you are a Calvinist or not but, if you are, is that a part of Calvinism?

If you haven't looked lately, we live under the Covenant of Grace and Love....I think I will take God's advice on this matter!

i do nt o think that anyone is saying to stop reaching out to the sinners. that is completely against the bible and the lord. however condoning such behaviors is a whole nother story. we can not condone these things and claim that the lord is moving through us in doing so. however you can tythe into what ever ministry you want to it does not have to be directly tlhrough your church.

 

[ushalk]

It is difficult times and yes, since I am presently a member of a Presbyterian Church, I am ultimately a part of "one of those denominations that you mentioned but I am a Christian first and a Presbyterian second, maybe that is even third, LOL!

Between you and I and our discussions on the matter, ironically, I abhor what the Presbyterian Church USA has done. In fact, being married in a church or being a Pastor in a church and a practicing homosexual is a oxy-moron. I can't for the life of me believe that you can be a Christian, the Lord in you and guiding your paths on one hand and, you openly are a non-repentent homosexual on the other and I hate the thought!

I have been more than out-spoken on this issue in my own church and, for the time being, we would not support gay marriages or Pastors but, the die is cast and, I imagine it will only be time before we have to. I will probably leave for sure then if not before but not until then I will continue to struggle with what I hate and God's calling to a higher purpose in love.

I will leave you with this one thought. If this happens in my church, in my time, how do I know that God may not want me to stay and openly object to it or atleast until I am run out?

god may ask you to stay and speak out the truth. they will surely run you out for it. but it is not of matter what they do or think. it only matters that you are doing as you are lead by the spirit of god.

 

[rojoloco]

first of all this is a doctrine from the baptist. i have talked with many pastors and teachers of the baptist churches and this is infact one of their teachings. i did my home workd on this and do not appreciate being told i am liing. i will even tell you a good place to start researching this. that is Thomas road baptist church and liberty university in lynchburg VA.

Perhaps we should look at Westboro Baptist Church as well while we're just throwing out random church names. Maybe you would like to claim all Baptist churches teach we should picket military funerals. What I'm saying is that your logic does not make sense. Primarily because Baptist churches are all independent.

However, there is a common theme depending on who you are affiliated with. For instance, my Baptist church is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC). There is the Baptist Faith & Message, the Baptist Covenant, etc. These are all documents written by the Baptist Church. While they are not decrees of what one must believe to be Baptist, they are a general collection of beliefs. In fact, pretty much every denomination has something like this. For instance, the Presbyterian church has the Westminster Confession of Faith. Regardless, you will not find anything like what you are claiming within these statements of faith within the Baptist church. Because of this, you no longer have a leg to stand on. You only have what various random churches teach on the subject and, since they are all independent, it does not hold much water.

 

[rojoloco]

A real live breathing "genuine" Calvinist...

Blessings rojoloco!!!! Not seen you post in awhile....

Anyways, God bless you and your family, and Jesus Is Lord..


Mike.

Thanks for the warm welcome. I actually laughed when I read the first line. It's been a while since I posted. I've been trying to revive The Jesus Joint so most of my energy has been exerted there. I have been meaning to post more on here.

 

[Brother Mike]

Praise God.

I could go over to the Jesus Joint and post some anti election stuff, and some name it and claim stuff......

Should get someones attention.... Lol..

But the Jesus Joint be blessed, and hold to the integrity of the Word of God that we live our life as examples, and those that need direction, the Lord bring them, as he added to the Church daily that which might be saved...

Blessed be the Baptist, that hold fast to their doctrine and integrity while the other major denominations vote for gay marriage and clergy..

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[ushalk]

i think a big part of the problem in american churches is we have become comfortable with false teachings. many have come to the point of condoning them rather than confronting them. a lot of this is due to the whole teaching that we are not supposed to cause ripples or waves. especially when it comes to wuthority figures in the church. however it think that this is dangerous for true growth of any christian. false teachings are to often held in high esteem and just taken by the word of man. this is not going to work. we are not safe for keeping ourselves ignorant to god. he has given us what we need to know and study.

 

[jiggyfly]

i think a big part of the problem in american churches is we have become comfortable with false teachings. many have come to the point of condoning them rather than confronting them. a lot of this is due to the whole teaching that we are not supposed to cause ripples or waves. especially when it comes to wuthority figures in the church. however it think that this is dangerous for true growth of any christian. false teachings are to often held in high esteem and just taken by the word of man. this is not going to work. we are not safe for keeping ourselves ignorant to god. he has given us what we need to know and study.

Good point, and more importantly we need to be led and taught by HolySpirit. I think another fleshy motivation is numbers.

I don't miss all the business of the micro-kingdoms in the christian religious institution.

 

[Montovine]

What is a Baptist

How can we take one verse out of the bible and make a whole doctrin with it. This is exactly what the baptist denomination has done. They have taken 1 Corinthians 3:8 to claim that there are no more spiritual gifts.Yet as we read on in the book we see that Paul goes on state that we should pray and seek after spiritual gifts. This teaching from the baptist is like most of the other teaching of the baptist. They are false and give honor and power tao man not Christ.

Maybe you should define which denomination of Baptist you are talking about. And then give a little more information on what you mean by spiritual gifts. We all have gifts given us from God. The Baptist churches I have attended believe this.

What I think you are trying to explain here is the need for speaking in toungs in order to show that you are filled with the Holy Spirit. Is this maybe where you are coming from?

 

[Brother Mike]

Spiritual Gifts.

Montovine

Maybe you should define which denomination of Baptist you are talking about. And then give a little more information on what you mean by spiritual gifts. We all have gifts given us from God. The Baptist churches I have attended believe this.

The Baptist doctrine is that they believe the Holy Spirit has given us gifts to further and help the ministry of the Lord Jesus.

This is where the confusion comes in, and I was one of them until I found out about grace and callings. We each have a grace and empowerment by God to accomplish God's will in our life.. Some might be great at organization, some graced to do business, bring great offering and support to a church, some graced to visit the sick... and so on...Each working to further the Gospel, and bless that body of Christ (or church) Everyone should have a roll to play, and not just sit and listen every Sunday.

The Baptist (Generally) do not believe on the 9 gifts of the Spirit which are given to (Come upon) men as the Spirit Wills. These are not gifts that stay with us, but come as needed and we just can't operate them (except tongues) when we want. These gifts are supernatural in operation. The Baptist (generally) Have taken those nine gifts and have attempted to make them non-Supernatural....in a attempt to understand them, and make use of them.

Ask most Baptist and Spiritual discernment would mean to know bad doctrine when you hear it...... In reality it is seeing into the realm of the spirit...

Wisdom would be to supernaturally to know something that will happen in the future, and Knowledge would be to know about something supernaturally that happened in the present or past.... The bible has examples of this. and so on...

Last several years.......
I know some Baptist Pastors that do speak in tongues, and pray in tongues. The gap on understanding spiritual gifts is closing. The ones I have talked to say they do not mention this to their congregation as that would have ramifications.

What I think you are trying to explain here is the need for speaking in tongues in order to show that you are filled with the Holy Spirit. Is this maybe where you are coming from?

Ushalk can answer this..

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[ushalk]

Good point, and more importantly we need to be led and taught by HolySpirit. I think another fleshy motivation is numbers.

I don't miss all the business of the micro-kingdoms in the christian religious institution.

yes i think that you are right and i think one of the biggest problems is the money issue. there seems to be more focus on the things of this world than the truth of god and who he really is.

 

[Montovine]

Montovine
The Baptist doctrine is that they believe the Holy Spirit has given us gifts to further and help the ministry of the Lord Jesus.

This is where the confusion comes in, and I was one of them until I found out about grace and callings. We each have a grace and empowerment by God to accomplish God's will in our life.. Some might be great at organization, some graced to do business, bring great offering and support to a church, some graced to visit the sick... and so on...Each working to further the Gospel, and bless that body of Christ (or church) Everyone should have a roll to play, and not just sit and listen every Sunday.

The Baptist (Generally) do not believe on the 9 gifts of the Spirit which are given to (Come upon) men as the Spirit Wills. These are not gifts that stay with us, but come as needed and we just can't operate them (except tongues) when we want. These gifts are supernatural in operation. The Baptist (generally) Have taken those nine gifts and have attempted to make them non-Supernatural....in a attempt to understand them, and make use of them.

Ask most Baptist and Spiritual discernment would mean to know bad doctrine when you hear it...... In reality it is seeing into the realm of the spirit...

Wisdom would be to supernaturally to know something that will happen in the future, and Knowledge would be to know about something supernaturally that happened in the present or past.... The bible has examples of this. and so on...

Last several years.......
I know some Baptist Pastors that do speak in tongues, and pray in tongues. The gap on understanding spiritual gifts is closing. The ones I have talked to say they do not mention this to their congregation as that would have ramifications.


Ushalk can answer this..

Jesus Is Lord.

I was raised in a Southern Baptist Church. And I believe in spiritual gifts. I also believe that God is capable of giving people extraordinary gifts outside themselves, instant, maybe just used for a moment. But always with a purpose, his divine pupose.

If we study the gifts of tongues it was given to the Disciples in order that all who were present during pentecost would see the glory of God. Paul talks about the uselessness of speaking in toungs if it does not glorify God to others. On the day of Pentecost people were amazed that these men were speaking to them in their own language.

If you are praying in an unknown tongue and no one around you understands this how does it benefit God and those around you? How can anyone know that what you are speaking is from God or from some other spirit? How does one test this? Can Satan give a man an unknown tongue to speak? Gods gifts to these men fulfilled a purpose, Gods gifts always are used to fulfill a purpose, and that is for his Glory and not those of men. Does speaking in tongues today, as is done in the pentacostal movement serve a devine purpose? If so please explain.


1 Cor 14:14-33
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
KJV

Patrick Henry explains it like this

"
Prophesying, that is, explaining Scripture, is compared with speaking with tongues. This drew attention, more than the plain interpretation of Scripture; it gratified pride more, but promoted the purposes of Christian charity less; it would not equally do good to the souls of men. What cannot be understood, never can edify. No advantage can be reaped from the most excellent discourses, if delivered in language such as the hearers cannot speak or understand. Every ability or possession is valuable in proportion to its usefulness. Even fervent, spiritual affection must be governed by the exercise of the understanding, else men will disgrace the truths they profess to promote."

Thank you for the discussion.

 

[Brother Mike]

Thank you

Thank you Montovine, for your insight....

I said in (...) Generally... What Baptist believe... A major portion teach that there are no more Apostles, and no more gifts.... (Supernatural ones)
That is not to lump them all into the same category... A Baptist Church down the street believes in laying hands on the sick, that they may be healed... Obeying the scripture in James that we are to anoint the sick with oil, and God shall raise them up..

If you are praying in an unknown tongue and no one around you understands this how does it benefit God and those around you? How can anyone know that what you are speaking is from God or from some other spirit?

You don't know.......... and speaking in tongues was not to be used unless someone known to interpret was present.. This is in a Church Setting.... Things must be decent and in order...

Paul said I speak in tongues more than you all.

1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

This is not to say Paul broke his rule among those in a Church Atmosphere. He taught in a known language... His personal prayer time was spent speaking in tongues, or praying in tongues...

He went on to say.. I would rather you prophesies.. during Church. That is a supernatural Word from God in a known language... Not just expounding on scriptures... A "Thus saith the Lord" and takes more faith to operate than tongues...

Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;


As is today.. all these "Thus saith the Lord" were mostly "Thus saith what I think" and not God at all.... Paul later wrote to correct this..

1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Tongues is a awesome gift, and available to those that believe on Jesus..

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

There are different types of it...

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities (different kinds, same family) of tongues.

One powerful use of tongues is praying for others, and in the will of God.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Praying in our own language does not cover the roots, and spiritual side of the problem because we can't see everything involved with a situation.. Tongues bridge that gap...

Jud 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Praying in tongues can Edify you as the scripture says.. or build you up in the faith you have... It is for edification to yourself.... Often times we need to be built up, and receive strength in what we already firmly believe to be true...

I have prayed in tongues for many years... It's these times I hear from the Lord the most, and it's a powerful tool for those that Believe in Jesus to do the work they are called to do.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[ushalk]

I was raised in a Southern Baptist Church. And I believe in spiritual gifts. I also believe that God is capable of giving people extraordinary gifts outside themselves, instant, maybe just used for a moment. But always with a purpose, his divine pupose.

If we study the gifts of tongues it was given to the Disciples in order that all who were present during pentecost would see the glory of God. Paul talks about the uselessness of speaking in toungs if it does not glorify God to others. On the day of Pentecost people were amazed that these men were speaking to them in their own language.

If you are praying in an unknown tongue and no one around you understands this how does it benefit God and those around you? How can anyone know that what you are speaking is from God or from some other spirit? How does one test this? Can Satan give a man an unknown tongue to speak? Gods gifts to these men fulfilled a purpose, Gods gifts always are used to fulfill a purpose, and that is for his Glory and not those of men. Does speaking in tongues today, as is done in the pentacostal movement serve a devine purpose? If so please explain.


1 Cor 14:14-33
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
KJV

Patrick Henry explains it like this

"
Prophesying, that is, explaining Scripture, is compared with speaking with tongues. This drew attention, more than the plain interpretation of Scripture; it gratified pride more, but promoted the purposes of Christian charity less; it would not equally do good to the souls of men. What cannot be understood, never can edify. No advantage can be reaped from the most excellent discourses, if delivered in language such as the hearers cannot speak or understand. Every ability or possession is valuable in proportion to its usefulness. Even fervent, spiritual affection must be governed by the exercise of the understanding, else men will disgrace the truths they profess to promote."

Thank you for the discussion.

i am not for or against speaking in tounges. i have spoken in tongues twice since my salvation. however the first one was the only one that i ever did in public. that was at the time i was baptized. now i am not saying that everyone is going to speak in tongues when they receive the holy spirit. but those that have should not be put down or looked down upon or condemned because they have. the other time i was weak and tired and tried to pray and the spirit took control. neither time was i under the control of myself with my tongue.

 

[rjones]

I was saved in a baptist church. Went to many summer bible schools at baptist churches and spent many years going to baptist churches. Then I went to a Pentecostal church revival and I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and I knew then that there was more. I had my presonal pentecostical experience just like in the book of Acts and I've never been the same. I love my Baptists brother and sister in Christ as I do ALL my brothers and sister in Christ.... no matter where they worship.

But here's the problem I see that has infiltrated the church.... WORLDLY COMPROMISE! Here's an example.

In 2 Kings 16:10-15 King Ahaz went to Damascus and saw a pagan altar. It was so beautiful that he sent the design to the high priest and ordered a duplicate made for him in Israel. He replaced the bronze altar in the temple, which had been prescribed by God, with this new pagan altar and started to offer sacrifices to God on it. In his mind, he wasn't worshipping foreign gods but the Lord. But the results were a gradual change in the temple’s way of worship which became like that of a pagan god (2 Kings 16:10-18).

In the same way today, much of the Church, no matter what denomination, has introduced worldly values, entertainment and performance into it's worship, evangelism and fellowship (2Cor.10:2-4). A worldly gospel of acceptance and telerance is being preached in increasing measure at assemblies that are void of the Holy Spirit's guidance and manifestd gifts.


In Paul's letter to Timothy, he was warning him of exactly this same thing. And he gave hin this advise to overcome what was happening.

“But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses. In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession... 1 Timothy 6:11-13.

What was that good confession that Jesus made....“My kingdom is not of this world” John 18:36.


As long as we are focusing on worldly things and not Jesus, then the chuch will be of differing denominations.

 

[ushalk]

I was saved in a baptist church. Went to many summer bible schools at baptist churches and spent many years going to baptist churches. Then I went to a Pentecostal church revival and I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and I knew then that there was more. I had my presonal pentecostical experience just like in the book of Acts and I've never been the same. I love my Baptists brother and sister in Christ as I do ALL my brothers and sister in Christ.... no matter where they worship.

But here's the problem I see that has infiltrated the church.... WORLDLY COMPROMISE! Here's an example.

In 2 Kings 16:10-15 King Ahaz went to Damascus and saw a pagan altar. It was so beautiful that he sent the design to the high priest and ordered a duplicate made for him in Israel. He replaced the bronze altar in the temple, which had been prescribed by God, with this new pagan altar and started to offer sacrifices to God on it. In his mind, he wasn't worshipping foreign gods but the Lord. But the results were a gradual change in the temple’s way of worship which became like that of a pagan god (2 Kings 16:10-18).

In the same way today, much of the Church, no matter what denomination, has introduced worldly values, entertainment and performance into it's worship, evangelism and fellowship (2Cor.10:2-4). A worldly gospel of acceptance and telerance is being preached in increasing measure at assemblies that are void of the Holy Spirit's guidance and manifestd gifts.


In Paul's letter to Timothy, he was warning him of exactly this same thing. And he gave hin this advise to overcome what was happening.

“But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses. In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession... 1 Timothy 6:11-13.

What was that good confession that Jesus made....“My kingdom is not of this world” John 18:36.


As long as we are focusing on worldly things and not Jesus, then the chuch will be of differing denominations.

this is the best pst on this thread. it is definately spirit moved and i love the scripture to go along with it. thank you brother rjones. there has definately been a lot of worldly things that have come into the church buildings and denominations.

 

[farout]

The Baptist Denomination?

How can we take one verse out of the bible and make a whole doctrin with it. This is exactly what the baptist denomination has done. They have taken 1 Corinthians 3:8 to claim that there are no more spiritual gifts.Yet as we read on in the book we see that Paul goes on state that we should pray and seek after spiritual gifts. This teaching from the baptist is like most of the other teaching of the baptist. They are false and give honor and power tao man not Christ.

I have no idea what Baptist Denomination your are referring to.:shock: There are so many different kinda of Baptists you need to state what Baptist group you mean. Just to name a few, there is General Association of Regular Baptist Churches, Southern Baptist, American Baptist Churches of the USA, Conserative Baptists, Independent Baptist, Fundamental Baptist Churches, Independental Fundamentalist Baptists. Seventh Day Baptist, Missionary Baptist Chruches, and the list goes on and on. Every Baptist group or denomination has some basic Doctrines, but by no means is there much unity or consensus on the 1 Corinthian 3:8 verse you mention. Cooreration and unity of these different kinds of Baptists is very rarer in Doctrine, and even in some areas of understanding Scripture.

The General Association of Regular Baptist Churches has little if any in common with Aericam Baptist Churches of the USA, and says that the AB of USA is "Unitarian". The GARB's hostility toward the ABC of the USA is just one example of the animosity that is alive and well (deadly discord) that overcomes the commands Jesus saying we are to love one another, and how we love one another shows the world how Jesus loves us.:secret:

Having been a pastor on three different Baptist Denominational Churches, Southern Baptist, Conserative Baptist, and American Baptist, I have seen the animosity first hand, and can address their differences very well.:embarasse

So could you please explain what Baptist you are sayin has said this about 1 Corinthians 3:8?

 

[rizen1]

I've encountered many times of Baptist and also visited some Baptist churches. They all vary.. some carry bigot and racial views on interracial marriage, hateful towards muslims, immigrants and others don't( I believe a member on this board once used the analogy of slewing his sword against them). The word baptist carry different meanings for churches around the world. There's the spiritual baptist in the Caribbean that I know of, their members if ever invited to a baptist church here will expect a church like their's. I've been on baptist forums and they debate among themselves. The baptist church doctrine is determined by the culture of the people and it's location. They are no different to any other christian denomination that carry differences within it sects. The Pentecostal have differences as the non-denomination have differences within. A southern baptist church appointed lesbian minister a few years ago, not sure of the numbers today. A baptist minister who is anti-gay was caught going on holiday with a male prostitute. The list goes on, but I would be wrong to say all baptist ministers are hiding in the closet.

It's hard to define which baptist sect is the best or have errors due to their variations. In the city here if not all but most of the baptist churches here are into spiritual gifts, having instruments, women wearing pants, women preaching etc. Not saying I've visited all but it's a common association or stereotype I may say, vs baptist church from the country side of south the first thing comes to mind, is women in skirts, no instruments, hymn books, KJV only, no makeup etc.

Again it does vary so the best thing would be to give the name of the churches that you know who do not believe in spiritual gifts. For as culture changes, many churches also adapt to the new and no longer hold on to what would be perceived as traditional baptist doctrinal belief.

It's strange but when one is dealing with humans there's no such thing as 100% in agreement, get them talking long enough and a difference will arrive. They both depart forgetting the 99% they have in common and hold the other in contempt and condemnation for the 1%.