athiest seeks help...

[slayer]

I'm an athiest, I used to be a christian. But the more death and missery I see in this world the less I believe in god. The more I think about religion and the people involved the less I want to have to do with them. To be honest I think the main problem is people not god. I don't understand why god would command us not to kill, and then wipe out all but noah's family. When I see all this war happening in the name of god, allah, and whoever else they use as an excuse to kill, it makes me think maybe mankind would be better off without religion.

Here is your chance as christians to save a soul. Turn me back to god if you can. It's not going to be easy. I have no faith, only thought.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Here is your chance as christians to save a soul. Turn me back to god if you can. It's not going to be easy. I have no faith, only thought.

Here's a website that can give you answers to at least some of your questions/objections:

Ask Questions about Life and God

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[Brighthouse]

Atheist slayer,calling yourself a fool??( psalm 14:1) I do not believe you to be one myself! First no one here can turn a person around that does not want to. You are looking for a reason to turn back? Matt 18:11 says Jesus came to save those which were lost.

When you were born you have two arms,no one can take that which is yours to start with. You said you were a believer, since you have come here,you already know you are wrong in what you have stated. For if you speak the truth as you know it,why look to Jesus?

You look slayer because you know, that no matter how far you go away from him,he is calling you back to him! I understand this pain. I also understand,that no matter what you do,or how far you run away from him,I can assure you,he sees you,and yes slayer loves you,just as you are right now!

For Jesus did not come to the healthy he came to those who need healing,of many different kinds. Please heed this last warning from the Lord in me,do not think you have time to decide on such an inportant matter! Matt 24:42-44 You have allowed the devil to steal from you.( JOhn 10:10 and lie to you (John 8:44)

I am showing you the Word because the Word is God talking to you! Jesus is talking to you this very day! You call Jesus names,you say this and believe that. Can a man Judge God? Jesus said this to you on the first day of your salvation,and you have not remembered??(john 15:16)

You have need to repent,and come back to your first love!(Rev 2:4-5) Jesus will do what no one would ever do!! He will LOVE you,faults and all. today slayer God is looking to reason with you!( Isaiah 1:18-20) please read this,you wanted the Lord to speak directly to you!!

Well he lives in me,and he is speaking to you right now. Inside you as you read this Holy Spirit will confirm this to you! And you will know the Jesus is alive! And then you shall decide. I am sure you have been through a lot,I am sure many troubles have looked to swallow you whole! Do not blame Jesus!

Put the blame like I did, on the real problem!! ME! MY pride!! because I know from one who was like you,it sure does come before a great fall!( proverbs 16:18) why do I show you scripture??

Because believing me will not save you! Only Jesus can,he is at the door now!! You are a man,so I will not talk to you,or blow smoke around you,you came here to hear the truth,and truth in love is just what you are recieving! Rev 3:19-22 I shall pray for you,I do not want your blood on my hands!! I care about you bro!!

To be a man,one must act like one! You know that!! Now you decide. Blessing from our Jesus be upon you and your family!! amen!

 

[Property Of God]

God had mercy on a lot of people in the O.T plenty of times and He was very merciful several times but He is fair and just and everyone reaps what they sow. Allah is the god of muslims and the Quran is all fabricated in order for the soldiers of allah to get very wealthy and powerful in the name of *god*

God doesn't want anyone to perish and go to hell that's why He sent Jesus to take our place, but like I said, those who remain unrepentant must face fair judgment for their actions, that's the moral law plain and simple.

Don't take Islam as a role model, it's the only religion that commands people to kill each other, the Bible doesn't.

BTW, no one here can *save* you, even if we wanted, this isn't our job, you can't even save yourself, your only hope is that Jesus FINDS you. No one wants God, we all wanna run away and live our lives like we wanted, Jesus is the one who goes and gets you. He'll knock on your door, and if you open, He'll enter your life and do wonderful things.

Romans 2:4—"Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?"

I'm sorry, I can't convince you to love Jesus and be a Christ-follower.

 

[slayer]

how can you say that about the Quran, when the Catholic church is rich beyond our wildest dreams?

I don't believe the Qoran instructs people to kill, I believe people twist the words of the Quran to suit thier own selfish desires. That said I've never read it, and I probably won't, but if you can show me a passage from it to prove your point I would be the first to admit that I was wrong.

And believe me Islam is the last place I would look for a role model.

 

[slayer]

Atheist slayer,calling yourself a fool

yes, exactly. How could I claim to be a genius when there is so much that I don't know?

 

[slayer]

Ok, I got this from the King James version, not only does the bible intruct it's followers to kill people, but it says we should stone our own families to death for worshiping other gods.


[6] If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
[7] Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
[8] Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
[9] But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
[10] And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

 

[slayer]

And believe me Islam is the last place I would look for a role model.

just to make things perfectly clear, I work with christians and muslims and I've found all of them to be lovely people. I have no Ill will towards any person of any faith.

 

[slayer]

I don't believe the Qoran instructs people to kill, I believe people twist the words of the Quran to suit thier own selfish desires.

Actually, I change my mind, after reading the section of the bible I just quoted, it's quite possible that the Quran calls for violence. again I haven't read it so I can't be sure.

 

[Property Of God]

Okay first of all, lets establish one rule.

The BIBLE itself (within itself) does NOT instruct people to kill, you can not blame sinful acts of individuals on the Bible, let's just get that clear. People sin, you agree?

Second of all, I respect that you admitted that you didn't read the Quran, but I did, I lived in the Middle East for 22 years and I've lived with Muslims, so please believe me, I know what I'm saying, I'd never say something without being to back it up.

Want me to quote passages from the Quran?

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it."

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle

This is only a few (trust me, there's a lot more)
I wanna say one thing, lets not confuse Muslims with the Quran, those are people, and that is an evil book; by saying the Quran is evil, I'm not saying that muslims are also, evil.
Anyway, I don't want this post to be about Islam, it should be about you and Jesus, I only wanted to show you that the God of the Bible, and *Allah* are totally different gods.

Hope I've cleared up any confusion you had about my previous post.

 

[Property Of God]

Ok, I got this from the King James version, not only does the bible intruct it's followers to kill people, but it says we should stone our own families to death for worshiping other gods.


[6] If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
[7] Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
[8] Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
[9] But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
[10] And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

Okay, let me tell you a few thing about the O.T:

1- Those passages were written IN context with the story behind them (unlike the Quran, you'll find violent passages without any relation to the context it's in)

2- The O.T was written before Jesus, before God made salvation possible, in the O.T a sin meant death, but after Jesus died, He took our place. If Jesus had never come, we'd all sin and we'd all go to hell cause lets face it, we are all evil and sinful by nature, even if God had never sent Jesus, He's still be all good, because He did provide a way out for us by His choice, because He loved us.

Satan and his demons sinned and fell and God never sent them a savior.

 

[David777]

Hello Slayer.

Valid questions of course, i have asked myself the very same questions. If there was a way out of Christianity i would have found it.

I spent considerable time examining Christianity inside and out, cut through the religous crap and went for the very heart of Christianity. The Bible and its claims, i did not have a Christian background and no bias. My conclusion i had to become one myself.

Why, this Bible was virtually flawless, especially the messianic prophecies! These prophecies represented almost the absolute proof of the claims made about Jesus Christ.

Secondly, Jesus Christ spoke with authority, had miraculous power and claimed to be God! These Gospel accounts are far too in depth for a work of fiction, these accounts are way beyond the ability of mankind to manufacture.

I have the opposite view to you regarding death and misery. Humans are incredibly evil creatures, have a deep look at history. Concentrate on the wars especially the First and Second World Wars. Cruelty beyond comprehension, mass execution, nuclear bombs. You will change your mind rather quickly. Man is not good by any measure certainly not by God's yardstick. If i was responsible for mankind i would have eliminated mankind a long time ago.

I have no time for religion but all the time for the messiah.

If God wants to wipe out the human race you can rest easy that it was very evil.

Wars are not the result of religion really. They are the result of competition, idealogy, resources, etc. I will not accept your statement mainly because i examined many conflicts. Causes were never religion, i will name some for you.
1) Boer war
2) First World War
3) Second World War
4) Korean War
5) Vietnam War
6) Iraq War
7) Afganistan War
None of these wars are religous wars, no sir, they are conflicts in idealogy.

No time for Koran (Quran), it has the first five books from the Hebrew Bible. Islam is a fake. Mohommad was a warrior not a messiah!

Feel free to reply.





You asked,


I'm an athiest, I used to be a christian. But the more death and missery I see in this world the less I believe in god. The more I think about religion and the people involved the less I want to have to do with them. To be honest I think the main problem is people not god. I don't understand why god would command us not to kill, and then wipe out all but noah's family. When I see all this war happening in the name of god, allah, and whoever else they use as an excuse to kill, it makes me think maybe mankind would be better off without religion.

 

[slayer]

Well there you go, the Quran does contain violent passages, I stand corrected.

 

[slayer]

1- Those passages were written IN context with the story behind them

Even in context, with a story behind them, that is a brutally violent act to ask someone to do to a family member or any human being for that matter. That is a fact. stoning someone to death is wrong no matter who told you to do it.

Why would god be so cruel to his people just because they were born before Christ?

By the way, we are not all evil, and I don't need the fear of hell to make me a good person, I have morals and compasion for my fellow man, I know the difference between right and wrong.

 

[Property Of God]

I applaud you for coming here brother, I don't wish that your post becomes a debate or about Islam, it's about you, there is a reason you came here, you wanna seek Jesus, and He wants to seek you. I hope you continue to come here and keep reading and listening to sermons, maybe something you listen to, or read, could change your whole life. (I suggest pastor John Piper, Mark Driscoll, Matt Chandler, C.S Lewis) It seems that you've the will to do that. I wish you all the best, truly.

 

[Property Of God]

Even in context, with a story behind them, that is a brutally violent act to ask someone to do to a family member or any human being for that matter. That is a fact. stoning someone to death is wrong no matter who told you to do it.

Why would god be so cruel to his people just because they were born before Christ?

By the way, we are not all evil, and I don't need the fear of hell to make me a good person, I have morals and compasion for my fellow man, I know the difference between right and wrong.

How do you have morals, I mean, how do humans come to this idea that there is good, and that there's bad? If there was no sun, we'd have never knew that there is no sun, right? If there was no God, we'd have never found out.

You say we aren't all evil, did you sin today? Did you sin yesterday? Will you sin tomorrow? I hate to tell you, sin is in our nature, you don't have to be a serial killer so I'd call you a sinner, all you need is to break one rule, it's all sin (I'm not talking about the severity of sin)

If you believe that there's God, and created you, who are you to judge His acts, you don't know better than God, you don't even know what tomorrow holds for you, you're not all wise-and-all-knowing. You can't say God sinned, God does not sin, it's not in His nature.

Instead of evaluating how good God is from a scale of 1 to 10, you should praise Him and thank Him for sending His son, God in human, for you, He died for you, personally you, He didn't wish that you go to hell, even though you sin against Him everyday.

 

[slayer]

How do I have morals, it's quite simple really, hurting people = bad, being kind to people = good

I can honestly say I haven't sinned today or yesterday, that I know of, I can't remember everything I did much before that, But I sure know if I'm doing harm to others, to me that's what sinning is, doing harm to others. You see, I don't believe in god at the moment, so I don't care about what the bible says is a sin.

Also God has sinned more than most. According to the bible, he has killed many. He got Mary knocked up while she was married to Joseph, that's adultery in my book.

ok, that last sentence was a cheap shot, and really i just put it there as a joke, but you can see my point.

 

[Property Of God]

How do I have morals, it's quite simple really, hurting people = bad, being kind to people = good

I can honestly say I haven't sinned today or yesterday, that I know of, I can't remember everything I did much before that, But I sure know if I'm doing harm to others, to me that's what sinning is, doing harm to others. You see, I don't believe in god at the moment, so I don't care about what the bible says is a sin.

Also God has sinned more than most. According to the bible, he has killed many. He got Mary knocked up while she was married to Joseph, that's adultery in my book.

ok, that last sentence was a cheap shot, and really i just put it there as a joke, but you can see my point.

What you are saying, makes you arrogant (not admitting that you sin) and makes you an ignorant (assuming things about the Bible)

God didn't get Mary "knocked up", you clearly missed sex ed class in school, and you've never actually read the Bible, you may say that you were Christian before but I take it as a title you took more than a belief, you weren't converted to start with, or you'd be a believer today and only stronger. I no longer have any interest in discussing anything with you because you're not here to be converted. Best of luck to you with whatever you're actually looking for here.

 

[slayer]

That was an honest answer, I cannot remember sinning in the past few days, to lie and say I did sin would be a sin itself according to the ten commandments.

I didn't assume anything about the bible, how can you deny god killing people when he wiped out most of the planet with a flood (according to the bible, personally I don't believe the great flood story).

By the way, I was a christian, I was baptised on easter sunday a few years ago. I was totally converted and believed in god and jesus. but people change. Also, I have read the bible, what do you think turned me athiest

And you must have missed my point about the Mary statement being a joke. You can't take things too seriously in life (especially people on the internet) or you will be miserable all the time.

 

[slayer]

OK guys I'm off for the weekend, thanks for the prayers those that prayed for me. thanks for the debate, I am pleasently suprised by your tolerance of differing opinions. I was expecting to be reported and banned to be honest. Most christian sites wouldn't have let a guy who listens to the mighty Slayer (the metal band) even join. My hats off to for your patience with me, it was really unexpected.

P.S. Don't take me too seriously, because I sure don't.