Can A Christian Lose Their Salvation?

[rojoloco]

God could never leave us to perish in our sin. Jesus Christ would not consider the thought.

Why would you assume this? The Bible clearly tells us the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). God is love but He is also just. Being a just God, He holds people accountable for their actions. There will be payment. For those with faith, payment has already been completed. For those without it, God will indeed leave them to perish in their sin. In fact, God's justness is a mystery to us considering He saw it as just to send His innocent Son to die a brutal death so that guilty men could be washed clean and set free. Analyze that one and tell me if it makes any sense to you. I know it doesn't to me. However, whether or not it makes sense to me does not matter. All we need to know is that God's idea of just is not always the same as ours. Instead of whining about how it isn't fair for God to leave someone to their sin instead of saving them, people need to apply that logic to what God chose to do with His Son! At least humanity is getting what they rightfully deserve. In fact, we all deserve it. I thank God that He chose to save me when I did nothing to deserve it.

Love would never abandon anyone, it never fails.

Love never fails but the Bible is also clear that not everybody shares in God's love. If that were the case, everybody would be saved because intimate God's love is reserved for His adopted children.

 

[David777]

Dear Mr Rojocolo.

Your reply contained the following,

"For those without it, God will indeed leave them to perish in their sin. In fact, God's justness is a mystery to us considering He saw it as just to send His innocent Son to die a brutal death so that guilty men could be washed clean and set free. Analyze that one and tell me if it makes any sense to you. I know it doesn't to me."

Jesus Christ is the origin of life (Colossians 1), without Jesus there is only death.

As you quoted "the wages of sin is death", which implies that sin is
of course is an absence of Jesus Christ. A man without Jesus is already dead as a result of sin.

Hence, a refusal of Jesus Christ is a refusal of life itself. Then God is absolutely just, if you reject Jesus you reject life. I do not understand why you cannot see this, this is justice in its purest form.

In love The Father sent His Son for all of us Mr Rojocolo. But, I am afraid not all will accept the Son, therefore, not all will attain life.

This is not difficult to understand, it should make sense to you.

 

[samphillipssr]

Jesus is Lord And We do Not Have A License To Sin

The Bible proves by the scriptures you quoted and hundreds of others that "without Holiness no man shall see the Lord" ( be saved ).

However... my friend,

There is no such thing with God as heavier sins or lighter sins.

With Jehovah God, a small sin will send you to hell for eternity just as quick as a great big sin.

The Bible teaches if you sin in the least you sin in the whole.

Sin is sin - therefore, in Gods eyes there is no little or big sins. Some may be more degrading like homosexuality or being lesbians but sin is sin.

Thanks for the opportunity to reply.

 

[rojoloco]

As you quoted "the wages of sin is death", which implies that sin is of course is an absence of Jesus Christ. A man without Jesus is already dead as a result of sin.

And what dead man can make himself alive? A spiritually dead man has no more say in his salvation than a physically dead man has in coming back to life. Did Lazarus choose to accept Jesus' gift of bringing him back to life? The answer is a resounding NO. It happened because Jesus caused it to happen. The same goes for our faith. A spiritually dead man does not choose to be saved or have faith. It happens because the Spirit causes it to happen. This is why it is says in Acts 13:48 that as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Hence, a refusal of Jesus Christ is a refusal of life itself. Then God is absolutely just, if you reject Jesus you reject life. I do not understand why you cannot see this, this is justice in its purest form.

You are looking at this from a human-centric point of view. Yes, it is true that it is justice to condemn fallen men to Hell. However, you are then saying that it would not be just for God to exclude anybody. Your logic makes no sense when viewed through a Christ-centric lens. There is nothing just about Christ dying for us so that the love of God will win to save guilty people. If we think the purpose behind salvation is God's love, Jesus got shafted. Love is not the reason. The glorification of God is the purpose.

In love The Father sent His Son for all of us Mr Rojocolo. But, I am afraid not all will accept the Son, therefore, not all will attain life.

He sent His Son for all without distinction, meaning Jews and Gentiles alike. It was for all humanity but not every human otherwise every human would be saved because, as you said, love never fails. God's intimate love is for His Elect and His call of salvation is 100% effectual.

 

[spirit1st]

Our Spirit once Born of God is No longer a part of this evil world!

Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.


Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son



We Must be reborn of our Spirit for Salvation ! It very simple ,yet few are willing to allow Him to Rule over Them 100%



Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We Must Give all we have and are to HIM at salvation!His rightful place is LORD of All!
He wants nothing we have ,But must be counted LORD!

Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

 

[David777]

Confusing.

I did not fully understand your last reply Mr Rojocolo.

I suspect you may be mistaken Mr Rojocolo.


Your reply was,

"...If we think the purpose behind salvation is God's love, Jesus got shafted. Love is not the reason."

This is where you are mistaken. Read the following.

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."
John 3:16 (NASB)

You said God's Love was not the reason. You are clearly wrong
Mr Rojocolo. God does love His creation deeply.

 

[David777]

Also.

Mr Rojocolo you also said,

"He sent His Son for all without distinction, meaning Jews and Gentiles alike. It was for all humanity but not every human otherwise every human would be saved because, as you said, love never fails. God's intimate love is for His Elect and His call of salvation is 100% effectual."

This I also found confusing to say the least. Are you sure you want
to maintain this idea. His Son was sent to Jew and Gentile, but not all
humankind. There is a short circuit in the logic within this statement.
No wonder you call it a mystery!

 

[RJ]

Our Spirit once Born of God is No longer a part of this evil world!

Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.


Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son



We Must be reborn of our Spirit for Salvation ! It very simple ,yet few are willing to allow Him to Rule over Them 100%



Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We Must Give all we have and are to HIM at salvation!His rightful place is LORD of All!
He wants nothing we have ,But must be counted LORD!

Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

[QUOTE=spirit1st;176975]Our Spirit once Born of God is No longer a part of this evil world!

Your not quite perfect yet. As long as you are in the body you are subject to sin, you are not a 100% spirit until you die, not until then does perfection come.

Matthew 26:41 (New International Version, ©2011)
41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”


This is St. Paul talking about his sinful nature:
Romans 7:
18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!




The sin remains until you are perfected in the presence of God (Face to Face, 1COR 13) but the penalty for that sin is null and void because of what Jesus did at the cross.
"Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ".

 

[james g]

Heb 6:4 And tasted of the heavenly gift--Now what heavenly gift
could be thus spoken of and known without further definition?
What indeed but that described in Romans 6:23; "THE GIFT of God
is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." But our Lord's
promise concerning "the gift of God" was not made to tasters, but
to drinkers; as He said to the Samaritan woman:"If thou knewest the gift of God, and Who it is that saith to thee, Give Me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of Him, and
He would have given thee living water ... Whosoever drinketh of
the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water
that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water
springing up unto eternal life" (John 4:10, 14).Thus all drinkers of the water of life are truly saved. But,you ask, Could a person taste of eternal life and yet be lost
forever? Certainly! Tasting is not drinking! Drinkers are not
mere tasters: In tasting, the flavor and effect of the draught is discovered: the
will thereupon must decide whether to drink or reject what has
been tasted. The drinker commits the water to the man and the man
to the water--a marvelous picture of saving faith! If it be the
water of life, which Jesus gives, he has drunk of it; he has
committed himself to it; his whole being is involved; his whole
future is determined. Thousands today know the taste of the heavenly gift, eternal life, who never did drink that water! who did not accept, receive, that gift in a saving sense.

 

[james g]

Heb 6:4 Those who were once-for-all enlightened--They had that
Divine illuminating involved in the first operation of the Holy
Spirit upon the soul of man. The utter darkness and ignorance of
nature was dispelled. We read in John 16:8: "He, when He is come,
will convict the world"--not of their evil conduct, nor of each
man's past guiltinesses, but of the sin of not believing on
Christ: "in respect of sin, because they believe not on Me," and
"of righteousness," because Christ, adjudged of men a blasphemer,
God received up to Heaven. And "of judgment," because the world's
prince, Satan, was judged at the Cross. This "enlightenment," then, about Christ, was the same which those finally saved received. To the mind of a Hebrew, it
included complete persuasion by the Holy Spirit that Jesus of
Nazareth was his Messiah. It is referred to again in Hebrews
10:32 in the words, "Call to remembrance the former days, in
which, after ye were enlightened, ye endured a great conflict of
sufferings." It is dealing lightly with Scripture to imagine that
this "enlightenment" was merely some "intellectual illumination"
and that of the "natural mind." R.A. Torrey's claim that "there
is a quickening short of regeneration" is borne out by this, as
well as other Scriptures, as e.g., Luke 8:13.This enlightenment was not merely intellectual, but embraced such a Spirit-wrought view of Christ, His earthly Messiahship,and His resurrection that those faithful Hebrews who received it
and acted Upon it, "continued steadfastly in the apostles'
teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread and prayers ...
praising God and having favor with all the people" (Acts 2:42,
Mr. Darby says (Coll. Writings, Vol. XXVIII, P. 94): "It
should be observed that there is nothing of life signified here.
The expressions do not go beyond the indications of truth that
might be received by the natural mind and the demonstrative power
of the Holy Ghost which persons might partake, of, as Scripture
shows, without being participators of eternal life."We fully agree that these in Ch. 6:4-8 did not exhibit "the things pertaining to salvation" of vs. 9. Yet Mr. Darby's
explanation, like that of all ultra-Calvinists, falls far short
both of what is here revealed in Scripture, and of what has been
fearfully illustrated in the experience of apostates. Remember
that Paul denies the ability of the natural man to receive the
things of the Spirit of God; and why? "For they are foolishness
unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually
judged" (1 Cor. 2:14). Therefore in Mr. Darby's unfortunate
words, "truth that might be received by the natural mind and the
demonstrative power of the Holy Ghost," there is a departure from
Scripture teaching. The Wholly "natural" man can respond no more
to the Holy Spirit's operations than a tree in the forest! But
God says in Heb. 6:4 that those who become apostates were once
enlightened. The Hebrews thus "enlightened" knew from God that
Jesus of Nazareth was their Messiah! and further, that God had
raised Him from the dead--that He was now living. Also, there was
a "tasting"--an experience such as "the natural mind" never could
realize. Tasting was experienced by those of Ch. 6--but not
drinking! Those of Ch. 10 tasted--and drank! Both knew the taste.
Those who drank got life (john 4:14).This is the "enlightenment;" the miracle of the Holy Ghost from Heaven revealing a Risen, Living Christ--from which those of
Hebrews 6:4 finally apostatized. For this is apostasy--willfully
casting away known revealed truth! They "rejected for themselves
the counsel of God" (Lk. 7:30). We repeat, the word for "enlightened"
in Hebrews 10:32 is the same Greek word as is used in Chapter
6:4: God can reveal only one Christ! The same Christ had been set
before those of Chapter 10:32 as before the "tasters" of Chapter
6; and there was the same enlightening Agent, the blessed Holy
Spirit. Beware lest you miss the message and power of the book of
Hebrews by bringing in some "theological system" by which you
judge all Scripture.

 

[David777]

Nice answer.

Well written Jamesg.

Very sound argument.

Just a few spaces would make the reading easier.

 

[samphillipssr]

God and the King James Version Bible is True

Why not just believe that what God inspired the true christians to write in the Bible is true?

A person can argue back and forth with another person and they both may be wrong plus all "the wasted time." But... the Holy KJV Bible says it so loud and clear - how could anyone misunderstand?

Unless they choose to for the sake of trying to confuse someone - especially a new christian?

My point is - while you argue what "you believe" there are many that need salvation that you could be a witness to. Most people do not even read what you say anyway.

Why not simply quote the Bible and leave it there? As long as we follow God and His Word, what we believe will only be what the Holy Scriptures already say.

Thanks.

 

[james g]

Heb 6:4 And were made partakers (partners) of the Holy Spirit--Note at once, it is not said that these were sealed with the Spirit, as were those at Pentecost (Acts 2), and in Samaria (Acts
8), and in Ephesus (Acts 19), who were "sealed unto the day of redemption" (Eph. 4:30); as God says, concerning the Ephesian believers: "In Whom (Christ) ye also, having heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation--in Whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God's own
possession" (Eph. 1:13-14). Again, in Romans 8:9: "If any man have not the Spirit of
Christ, he is none of His." And Jude describes the professing Christians as "mockers" of the last days, "walking after their own lusts of ungodliness, making separations (among the saints)
sensual, having not the Spirit." But that certain operations of the Spirit of God are
"partaken of" both by the saved and by those that are finally lost, we know, from the story of King Saul. We read of him, "TheSpirit of Jehovah will come mightily upon thee, and thou shalt
prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man" (1 Sam.10:6). This was fulfilled: "God turned him another heart" And in the next verse, "The Spirit of God came mightily upon Saul." But alas, Saul departed into self-will, and so continued, until not only was he rejected as to the kingdom--"Now thy kingdom shall not continue" (1 Sam. 13:14); "Jehovah ... hath rejected thee from being king" (15:23); but also,--result of persistent self-will--"The Spirit of Jehovah departed
from Saul, and an evil spirit from Jehovah troubled him" (16:14),to the day of his suicide! We read therefore in God's covenant with David, that although his son (Solomon) should be "chastened with the rod of men" upon disobedience, God promised: "But My
loving kindness shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee" (2 Sam. 7:14-15). Here then in Saul is one that was a "partaker" (partner) in
the meaning of the word in Hebrews 6:4, partakers of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit came mightily on Saul, as we have seen; and Saul on his part at first acted with the Spirit, and was used of
God. Thus was he a "partner" of the Spirit. In like manner men are today made partakers--partners, of the Holy Spirit, who are never sealed by Him: "And those on the rock are they who, when they have heard, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who for awhile
believe, and in time of temptation fall away" (Lk. 8:13. See also Mk. 4:16,17).Saul had fathomless ignorance of the things of God (1 Sam. 9:5-10), no real faith (13:8-9); no discernment as to what prayer is (vs. 12). He repeated the sin of Eli's sons in bringing the
sacred ark into the midst of the profane host in battle (1 Sam.4:14-18). See also Saul's heartless giving over of Jonathan, the man of faith, to death. Saul never really knew God. How like
Divine Grace, to choose another Saul from the same tribe, then "chief of sinners," the persecutor of His dear Church, through whom to reveal His utmost counsels and grace in the N.T.: "Saul,
who was also called Paul"!Judas Iscariot went with another disciple when the Lord sent
them out two by two (Mk. 6:7,13) to preach "the kingdom of Heaven," and he did preach, and went on, and wrought miracles, without doubt (by the partaking of the Holy Spirit, in the sense
of our verse), unsuspected by the rest till the very Last Supper of John 13! At first, doubtless, he deceived himself. Then, unwilling for the self-denial the path demanded, he yielded to
his inner greed, to his eternal ruin! And what about Demas, a companion and fellow-worker with Paul, saluting the saints in Colossians 4:14, accounted a "fellow-worker" in Philemon 24? But
in Paul's last epistle, towards the end of his second imprisonment, Paul, nearing martyrdom, must dip his pen in bitter ink indeed, and record, "Demas forsook me, having loved this
present age." Let us be frank and honest despite all our feelings, false traditions, and false hopes. There are those that tasted of life, so that they knew what it was: and were made
partners (_metachoi) of the Holy Spirit, so that they were conscious of Him and His work, who are seen in this passage finally to fall away and be eternally rejected of God.

 

[will]

TIME OUT! :shock:


I joined this forum thinking that I've finally found a place where disciples of Our Lord Jesus sharpens each other as it's said in one of the Proverbs.

I am deeply saddened after reading this whole thread that I see a lot of knowledge and passion, but little love displayed towards one another.

Each of us are capable of holding our own in arguments, what's the glory in that? being able to say that "You read wrong! only I and my -ism-of-choice got it right" is a mere human intellectual exercise. Not at all glorifying the Lord that we all profess to submit to.

Rather than pointing out how much more superior my interpretation is, why don't we work together starting from what we agree on and branch out with full acknowledgement when there is a disagreement.

What do I mean by that?

When I read a statement of interpretation of a Scripture that differ from mine -- *even when I think I've heard it before* -- I ask myself, why does that brother (similarly applicable to sister, of course) think that way? instead of "he must have drunk the Whatever-ism Kool Aid!." And then continue the dialog with *his* heart in my mind, instead of "I'm so going to correct his sadly mis-guided opinions."

Once you see why someone think the way they do, it is no longer a bear to come to an agreement, even when the agreement is to disagree... for now. Instead of verses of the Scriptures being thrown around as though they are bullets, we can present them respectfully as gold nuggets that the Holy Spirit has illuminate our minds with.

In an anonymous forum such as this, where we know each other only by our tone of writing and our pseudo-names, it's easy to turn even genuine love (agape) into irritation and even worse, hate.

Seriously, reading brothers (fellow heirs) turned towards each other with:
1) Air of superiority
2) Snarky remarks
3) "I'm so glad I'm not you" -attitude

Reminds me of the prayers of the Pharisees in Luke 18. And it saddens me to no end (and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this). It is just like any other non-Christian discussion forums. Aren't we supposed to be like salt and light in this world?

So please, brothers, put our heads together, not against each other.

It also helps if we become a human being instead of just a pseudo-name with a certain expected attitude.

I'll start:
My name is Will. I live in Texas, USA. Been a Christian for a long time, but have just a few years ago truly grasp what it means to become Our Lord's disciple. I don't ascribe to any -ism except for Bible-ism.

I would very much like to know who you are and a paragraph about your background. Please leave the -ism fan-boy attitude at the door. We all know that our God is so mighty and unfathomable that there is not one group of men or women in all human history (bible book authors excepted) that is capable to understand the totality of the revelations He has blessed us with.

But a group of men and women who have each others in mind has been and will continue to become the instrument that Our Lord used to do His Great Commission.

And finally, in no way did I intend to exclude myself from this exhortation. Like most of you, I have nothing but the tailcoat of God the Holy Spirit to hold on to in my study of the Scriptures. So I'm always in the learning (not learned) mode. And I do learned quite a bit in this long thread.




Oh, back to the topic, I believe that as we grow and eventually mature in our relationship with Our Lord, the less hand-wringing we will do in terms of losing our salvation. Which, if I don't mis-read the Scriptures, is the ultimate goal of the plan of salvation to begin with (the relationship, that is).

So, instead of obsessing with knowing whether we can lose our salvation or not, why don't we concentrate on immersing ourselves with the Scriptures, focusing on preparing ourselves to do His Great Commission (Matthew 28) in our own sphere of influence, and start and cultivate that relationship with Our Lord. And of course, continue to sharpen each other as irons.

 

[David777]

Dear Will.

Thanks for the opinion you offered, I could not agree more.

Our problem is the title of the thread itself.

The precise issue of eternal security within Christianity.

If you have been reading the Bible with the aid of the Holy Spirit. Then you would be aware just how our eternal security is assured.

You said,

"So I'm always in the learning (not learned) mode. And I do learned quite a bit in this long thread."

Of course you have learned information regarding this topic.
For me I have the same approach as you, no theology.

That's why I post, to find out how different theologies interpret certain passages. For me it has been in parts a good learning process.

Some other threads have been extremely interesting to read. I have an interest in eschatology, love those threads, unable to make up my mind as yet.

 

[Beans]

Thanks, Aristocrat

Thanks Aristocrat.
I thought you put together a pretty good article with some pretty compelling arguments.
I don't agree with the idea that God sees all sin in the same way. Obviously there has to be some kind of line, that if you cross it you go to hell, but where that is, only God knows.
My human reasoning tells me that God will not send someone to hell for eternity for something trivial like loosing your temper, or checking out a babe on the street, but who knows, right? Jesus did actually say that if you hate your brother you are guilty or murder and if you look on a woman with lust you have committed <style></style>adultery in your heart (Matt 5:22 + 28).
Maybe our intentions are as good or bad as the action itself, in God's eyes?

I have always felt that love is the key to our salvation and the salvation of others. If we have the Holy Spirit he/she will give us the power to love God and others (and perhaps even ourselves?).

A couple of my favorite verses are:

"...every one that loves is born of God, and knows God" (1 John 4:7), and
"...above all things have fervent love for one another, for "love will cover a multitude of sins" (1 Pt 4:8).

Maybe if we lose our love, we loose our salvation? (1 John 4:20).

An interesting thought.

 

[spirit1st]

God puts His type LOVE within us! God seals us with HIS Holy Spirit .Jesus took All our sins away!

Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.


Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,



1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;



1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;



1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[rojoloco]

I don't agree with the idea that God sees all sin in the same way. Obviously there has to be some kind of line, that if you cross it you go to hell, but where that is, only God knows.

Since that idea is not found anywhere in Scripture, we cannot incorporate it into our theological position. It is okay to ponder things such as that but we should never stand on an opinion that Scripture does not promote.

My human reasoning tells me that God will not send someone to hell for eternity for something trivial like loosing your temper, or checking out a babe on the street, but who knows, right?

The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). This means, even if you commit just one sin in all your life, you deserve to be paid in full which is death. One sin separates us apart from God for all eternity unless one has a Mediator in Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5).

Jesus did actually say that if you hate your brother you are guilty or murder and if you look on a woman with lust you have committed <style></style>adultery in your heart (Matt 5:22 + 28).
Maybe our intentions are as good or bad as the action itself, in God's eyes?

Bingo! The intention of our heart is far more dangerous than the actions of our hands because any action of hands is driven by the actions of the heart.

I have always felt that love is the key to our salvation and the salvation of others. If we have the Holy Spirit he/she will give us the power to love God and others (and perhaps even ourselves?).

Not sure why you used a gender neutral position here. The Bible never did any such thing so far be it from us to modernize the wording that God Himself chose (2 Timothy 3:16). As for the key, love is not it. Jesus is the only key to salvation (John 14:6). Love is a byproduct of said salvation (Galatians 5:22). Without the Spirit, one will never know how to love so you are correct in that aspect.

Maybe if we lose our love, we loose our salvation? (1 John 4:20).

I would not say that one loses their salvation if they lose love. The context of that passage is not about losing something that was once in our possession nor is it about gaining something that we do not yet have. It is about us loving God because He first loved us. If one does not love his brother, he simply does not love God despite his claims to the contrary. If one does not love God, he was never saved to begin with. Furthermore, if one claims to have loved someone in the past but later claims he does not love this person (or God) anymore, it means he never really loved to begin with and was only deceived because love never fails (1 Corinthians 13:8).

 

[HoneyBare]

Heb 6:4 And tasted of the heavenly gift--Now what heavenly gift could be thus spoken of and known without further definition? What indeed but that described in Romans 6:23; "THE GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

But our Lord's promise concerning "the gift of God" was not made to tasters, but to drinkers; as He said to the Samaritan woman:"If thou knewest the gift of God, and Who it is that saith to thee, Give Me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of Him, and He would have given thee living water ... Whosoever drinketh the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up unto eternal life" (John 4:10, 14).

Thus all drinkers of the water of life are truly saved. But, you ask, Could a person taste of eternal life and yet be lost forever? Certainly! Tasting is not drinking! Drinkers are not mere tasters: In tasting, the flavor and effect of the draught is discovered: the will thereupon must decide whether to drink or reject what has been tasted. The drinker commits the water to the man and the man to the water--a marvelous picture of saving faith!

If it be the water of life, which Jesus gives, he has drunk of it; he has committed himself to it; his whole being is involved; his whole future is determined. Thousands today know the taste of the heavenly gift, eternal life, who never did drink that water! who did not accept, receive, that gift in a saving sense.

Wow! You really helped me to talk to my friends, whom I've invited to church, and tried to help them understand the change in my life, but who do not understand because they have not drunk of the living water yet. This was really powerful to me. Also your posts following this one. Thanx for posting it. Is there a site you got this from that I could look at by chance? Or did these thought come from you?

 

[james g]

Hebrews verse by verse by William R. Newell author of Romans verse by verse.The one on Romans is very good.