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Accurately informed perspective for Belief....

JDFree

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
156
From an informed Christian viewpoint many believer’s & non-believer’s theories are bordering on ridiculous and worse. Many have literally no idea at all what they’re talking about. An informed viewpoint comes from reading Scripture, but it's far more than that. It's not what you read, or your ability to read, or your ability to comprehend what you read, or even the level of impact it has on you. With the Bible, the really major factor is: HOW you read it! <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

The only correct first thought in preparation, before any reading at all: if there’s a God, then He is God, and we're not! Therefore one must, not ‘should’ but must surrender their ego and self before this God, and pray that He guides the understanding. Why? Because if the Bible is genuine, then He wrote the book: and only He knows what it's supposed to say to our hearts! The problem: because of our human ego and self we tend to stand so tall that we block the Light of Truth from ever shining in. Even if one doesn't believe in God that's no real handicap: "God, if you're God, which I'm having trouble believing right now, but I'm willing to believe; if you exist, please reveal yourself to me through this Bible; that I may know you as you would have me to know you." And mean it, or else don't even bother, because He knows anyway. For others, just leave out the question of belief, “Lord God, please reveal all that you would have me to know of you as I read your Scriptures…”.

Then, and it should be obvious for Pete’s sake, get an approved Bible that is translated very faithfully and concisely from the earliest authenticated manuscripts. Once those two preparations are attended: Read ALL OF SCRIPTURE, book by book, in order, cover to cover!

That's without hop, skip & jump, reading a book here, a book there; without tearing it apart at every sentence or paragraph to anal-lyse it; without applying a hypercritical arched eyebrow and magnifying glass looking for suspected errors, without questioning it at all: no, just read it, one end to the other. Why no questions at all? Well, if a person is trying to explain extremely complex things you don’t understand, how can you understand what they’ve even tried to say if you interrupt them with questions and challenges at every paragraph before you even find out exactly what they’re really talking about?

From the first read COVER TO COVER you can understand the overall story, viewpoint and some major concepts God is forming, in the exact order He has laid out for your understanding. That order is progressive revelation and it’s why the Bible is laid out like it is.

After that, while it’s still fresh in your mind, you go back & read it again, cover-to-cover, for deeper understanding of what He said, to align the newfound knowledge, now as someone who has seen the general plan. This second read isn’t for further opportunity to find critical disagreement with it: just read it again, like one big book. Now the entire story is familiar ground, with some memory of what you read before, but with more understanding of complex issues that starts to reveal something much deeper. Still: don’t challenge what you’ve seen! Just ask God to make curious or difficult concepts more clear to you.

That is: He will make them more clear as you READ IT AGAIN, in order, cover to cover! In the third reading some of the finer hidden points become clearly understood and most questions or confusions are resolved. We finally know what the inside story is, why we are the way we are, and why God is the Way He is, and exactly why the Bible was written as it was written, and for the first time: EXACTLY what it says to us in our hearts as a Spiritual conversation from God!

We first have to get over that "It's all about me!" state of mind, which is the single most common state of mind in all men, all women, all children, and in all of the other options there of late. The first and ever primary requirement for ANY understanding of God can only, only, only come from a heart that is humble before His Heavenly Throne; and those last 3 words say an awful lot! If you ever do this of reading Scripture from cover to cover, without questioning it, just reading, something profound will occur, quite beyond words to describe.

Then, where there are questions, ask them directly of the Bible itself! That is, get a Reference Bible. A good one has center column references for every verse, directing you to every other verse in the Bible related to the subject matter, plus key words and their correct definition. When you get to the referenced verse you of course find more references, and may follow those. By following all those references and reading corollary verses all is made clear, as the Bible literally explains and proves the Bible to you in real time!

The very large majority of Christians with all of their lofty opinions of doctrines and pronouncements of THEIR viewpoints and explanations of same HAVE NEVER READ THE BIBLE COVER TO COVER EVEN ONCE IN THEIR ENTIRE LIFE! The reason it sounds, to an informed Christian, like they don’t know what they’re talking about is quite simple: they don’t! They’re not talking about what the Bible actually says at all, but what they think it says!

Likewise, many have had all their Bible understanding tainted and perverted because it’s initially gotten in some church denomination’s doctrinally approved Bible Study courses, or Bible Study groups etc. with every understanding heavily overshadowed with their denominational beliefs, their ‘interpretations’ and their church dogma. That’s just a larger group insisting on what they think it says! That’s hugely different than falling before God to humbly ask Him to reveal all as He would: as He who wrote the book! After you’ve read it properly, then listen to their doctrines to see if they really do match the Perfect Word of God that has just been spoken into your heart!

For the non-believer, if you won’t do this you can never look yourself in the eyes in the mirror and honestly say, "I’ve searched for God and He’s not there." Because it isn’t true and you know it. You can never lay your head on your pillow at night and relax into a restful sleep without a bottle or pills or joint or whatever to hide a heart in doubt and the nagging uneasiness in your mind.

In case you're wondering with a question there: YES! I read the Holy Scripture, King James Version, cover to cover 6 times in the first 18 months, before I developed a solid belief from it. Some areas of that belief changed over time with further deeper revelations after studying the same Scripture in deeper detail, listening to God, not me! From Scripture, I’m still open to whatever else my Lord and God has to say to me.

May God Bless your proper reading of His Divine Conversation from His Heart of Love to your heart!
JDFree
 
JDFree, I believe i will give it a try. It sounds like a good plan . . . reading the Bible through several times without question or doubt.

Thanx for your straight-forward words of wisdom. I believe the Bible is alive and I want it to speak to my heart as in times past. So, with an open heart, I will just start reading through it from cover to cover.
 
JDFree, I believe i will give it a try. It sounds like a good plan . . . reading the Bible through several times without question or doubt.

Thanx for your straight-forward words of wisdom. I believe the Bible is alive and I want it to speak to my heart as in times past. So, with an open heart, I will just start reading through it from cover to cover.

Hi HoneyBare!

That's great, and I absolutely guarantee you'll never regret it. As you mention, it finally allows God to have a long talk with you, completley uninterrupted, like: "See here, Honey, where my children were diobedient, even though I had showered them with love? The only way I could teach them to leave away selfishness and turn to me, and live my Love as their own was in their punishment that followed. It was punishment, but it was still given in Love.."

I know that's what I experienced. People say, "The light finally came on...." Well for me, it was like all the arc lights in a sports stadium but about 20 feet away, me standing in the middle of the field! "Oh, I get it..." hah!

You'll 'get it' and it will get you, and once got, you and God will have a new relationship as you pal around together: He the Begetter, you the begotten, His child, a new creation in Jesus!

Blessings....
 
Interesting, up at the top of this page was a note in a pinkish colored box, "The Bible is a book that is not for mere reading. It is a book for studying so that it can be applied."

I fully agree with that, but with the proviso that one first read it a few times to find out the genuine 'Story line', who the players are, who did what with whom, and of course God's place in the center of all the action. Once you have that established & firmly within your being, study time strats, and it makes it a tremendous adventure for the rest of your life! It's been around 20 years for me here, and it's now more exciting than in the first year! It's like exponential, continuously expanding & increasing, rather than ever reaching the end of anything: always a new beginning and adventure every time you crack it open with your most recently acquired knowledge added!
 
Read ALL OF SCRIPTURE, book by book, in order, cover to cover!

I'm curious how you come to that conclusion. Scripture doesn't say to read scripture that way, and by your logic, scripture is the ultimate authority...and it doesn't say to do that...then you have said to do that...and you are not authoritative enough to say that. Seems a mite paradoxical.

Case in point..perhaps if you have read the letters of Paul in the order they are presented to us in the Bible, you would realise they are not ordered chronoligcally, theologically, or based on any internal reason...What the compilers of the Bible did, was arrange them largest to smallest. That doesn't seem like the best reason in the world to read them in that order.

Seeing that is the basis of your entire argument I can only hold your argument as a contradiction of itself, and therefore invalid.

Also.

The very large majority of Christians with all of their lofty opinions of doctrines and pronouncements of THEIR viewpoints and explanations


In this post you are guilty of doing just that. You are taking your viewpoint, which isn't based in scripture, and elevating it to a position as the correct, the only, the one way to read the bible. Regardless of theology, academics, Biblical scholarship or tradition.

This seems to me to be a very cultish frame for Biblical interpretation.
 
Cover to Cover

The Bible does start... In the beginning and finishes with the end of things.

God said it is line upon line, precept upon precept, Here a little there a little.

We are told to compare spiritual with spiritual, and God's Word is Spirit...

Iceman, I am not sure I am ready to blast JDFree for his view on this though. There is not scriptural reference to reading from start to finish, that is true. How many Christians have read the whole thing though??

I think at least reading it once though, the Holy Spirit has something to bring to remembrance as he promised...

If JDFree gave this more of something "HE" suggest then it would be more acceptable perhaps, and not a bad idea at all.

Jesus Is Lord.
 
The Bible does start... In the beginning and finishes with the end of things.

God said it is line upon line, precept upon precept, Here a little there a little.

We are told to compare spiritual with spiritual, and God's Word is Spirit...

Iceman, I am not sure I am ready to blast JDFree for his view on this though. There is not scriptural reference to reading from start to finish, that is true. How many Christians have read the whole thing though??

I think at least reading it once though, the Holy Spirit has something to bring to remembrance as he promised...

If JDFree gave this more of something "HE" suggest then it would be more acceptable perhaps, and not a bad idea at all.

Jesus Is Lord.

I did not say that reading the Bible start to end was a bad thing. But JDFree's model goes far beyond that. This model states that you cannot understand the Bible without reading it cover to cover several times over, and that statement alone is worthy of criticism. But not only does it say that, it says that you must START with such a hermaneutic...What room does that leave for Christology? Conveniently though JDFree says that theology is second to reading the Bible, as if the two could ever be seperated.

But the paradoxical method of his claim, and the contradiction that is inherint in that system should be challenged. As I said, JDFree has done exactly what he has accused others of doing....But even worse, those whom he accused he calls perverted and tainted. For what? For saying reading scripture in context is part of learning to understand it? for adhering to tradition?

What JDFree claims is a heterodox. As such, it should be criticised.

There are more ways to read the whole of the Bible than cover to cover...indeed what does reading the Bible cover to cover have to do with being Christian. I have known uneducated people, who struggle to read even a fraction of the Bible in their lives. But they are the most Christian of people. Loving, dedicated to God, charitable, and Kingdom focused.

JDFree has claimed, and you have agreed, that because they cannot read the bible COVER TO COVER, that they are somehow less than others.

How many have read the bible COVER TO COVER but live selfish lives, accusing, and villanous? By JDFree's method these people are the best of Christians!

Just because the meta-narrative of the Bible has a start and end, does not mean the meta-narrative of the Bible is the only thing in the Bible. It is the opposite that is true, the meta-narrative is composed of a myriad of stories each of which individually brings Revelation of God.

JDFree has claimed that people dedicated to Biblical Scholarship have
They’re not talking about what the Bible actually says at all, but what they think it says!

The only basis he has for this statementis that they disagree with him, as if he is the authority on faith. There is no room in this method for humanity, tolerance, or love. He does exactly what he accuses others of and thus should fall prey to his own condemnations.
 
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front to back

Iceman, I never suggested that you thought reading from Gen through Rev was a bad thing. Reading the bible is a good thing.


I don't want to beat him up to bad with His hermeneutics (Which I can't even stand the man made word hermeneutics) However I had some red flags myself I look for in post. I know, I have been guilty of the same things..

The very large majority of Christians with all of their lofty opinions of doctrines and pronouncements of THEIR viewpoints and explanations of same HAVE NEVER READ THE BIBLE COVER TO COVER EVEN ONCE IN THEIR ENTIRE LIFE!

JDFree's amazing statement that the VERY LARGE (Majority) of Christians Throws lots of red flags....... It should have read (I am smarter and more equipped than most Christians) That is really what is expressed as a human could not even come close to meeting the majority of Christians, let alone the vast majority of them.

If JDFree had said...... "I believe that reading the bible cover to cover first would be a good place to start, and help someone grasp the whole picture."

Would be much more acceptable. He did not have to go into all the other explanations, and could have shortened his post considerably in a more helpful way.

However, I see no reason to tear up his post. He is one of many that come here with their own doctrine, and very limited understanding of a very vast and mighty God.

We are all in that boat.

Jesus Is Lord.
 
JDFree said:
Then, and it should be obvious for Pete’s sake, get an approved Bible that is translated very faithfully and concisely from the earliest authenticated manuscripts.


I can totally agree with the need to get a good Bible however, there is much involved in choosing the right translation. One must take into account things such as the family of text, the translator's theological biases, their goal for readability, etc.

I saw you mentioned the KJV. It is often called the Authorized Version though there is nothing in history to show that it was ever officially authorized by anybody. Oddly enough, it is also not the most accurate. King James took on the challenge (actually, he tasked others with it) most likely to leave his legacy. The project used Textus Receptus (Received Text) which is from the Byzantine Family. When it came out in 1611, this was the best of the best. However, better and more reliable texts have been found throughout the years. In fact, most translations do not use the Byzantine Family and actually use the Alexandrian Family because it has been proven to be the most reliable of the 4 major families.

However, knowing which family to use only goes so far. Both the NASB as well as The Message are both based off this family yet we see the differences between the 2 are vast considering one is only a paraphrase. From this point, we need to know where the translation came from. The original manuscripts obviously do not exist anymore. Thankfully, scribes throughout the ages took great care in preserving them. Actually, I recommend watching the video series titled The Indestructible Book. It is amazing and will teach so much on that subject. Anyway, most translations we have nowadays actually stem from revisions of existing translations.

For instance, 2 very accurate Bibles come from the ASV. The ASV came out in 1901 and is incredibly accurate. It almost doesn't get any better. However, it is also fairly difficult to read due to the great care taken in translating it with the closest they could get to word-for-word. The NASB is my Bible of choice. It is based off of the ASV but is MUCH easier to read. While being very readable (though I have heard others say they disagree) it is also very close to the original text as far as word-for-word translations go. Another great one is the ESV. This one also stems from the ASV but in a "second generation" sort of way. It actually comes from the RSV while the RSV comes from the ASV.

Like I said, while your family and your word-for-word/thought-for-thought areas are important, knowing the theological background of the translators is also very important. Normally, there would be a mixed brew of backgrounds working on the project (regardless of translation). This can actually be seen in Scripture if you compare sections of it. Some parts will describe something one way yet another part (though using the same Greek word in the NT) will describe it another. This is because sections of Scripture were split up between teams on the project. When translating, while attempting to remain as word-for-word as possible (assuming this was the goal of that particular translation), theological bias would certainly play a role when choosing the closest English word when coming across sticky areas where the Greek grammar did not directly translate.

I know this is fairly long but it is an area I have been studying recently and I thought it applied as there is far more to your comment that just getting an "approved" Bible. I don't disagree with your above quote but I thought I would elaborate on it.

JDFree said:
The very large majority of Christians with all of their lofty opinions of doctrines and pronouncements of THEIR viewpoints and explanations of same HAVE NEVER READ THE BIBLE COVER TO COVER EVEN ONCE IN THEIR ENTIRE LIFE! The reason it sounds, to an informed Christian, like they don’t know what they’re talking about is quite simple: they don’t! They’re not talking about what the Bible actually says at all, but what they think it says!


While this is true, there are also many who HAVE read it cover to cover and still do this. How many times one has read Scripture plays a part but it isn't the end all be all.

JDFree said:
Likewise, many have had all their Bible understanding tainted and perverted because it’s initially gotten in some church denomination’s doctrinally approved Bible Study courses, or Bible Study groups etc. with every understanding heavily overshadowed with their denominational beliefs, their ‘interpretations’ and their church dogma. That’s just a larger group insisting on what they think it says! That’s hugely different than falling before God to humbly ask Him to reveal all as He would: as He who wrote the book! After you’ve read it properly, then listen to their doctrines to see if they really do match the Perfect Word of God that has just been spoken into your heart!


I have to agree with Iceman here. You are (sorry for being blunt or possibly rude) playing the role of a hypocrite here. You are telling others to read it for themselves yet, if they disagree with your own private interpretation set apart from any denominational or doctrinal background, they are not reading it right and instead need to listen to what you are saying. Let the Bible speak to their heart but, if they disagree with how it has spoken to your heart, read the Bible cover to cover a few more times until they come to agree with what it said to you. I may be wrong in my interpretation but this is what I have gotten out of many of my discussions with you in other threads. I am actually NOT in favor of private interpretations. I don't take it as far as the Catholic Church as I do believe the Spirit will speak and help interpret the depths of God found in His Holy Word but I also do not reject the wisdom of those who have gone before me and have been appointed by God as teachers of His Word.

In the end, I have to stick with the solas that the Reformers held to so dearly. One of them being Sola Scriptura (by Scripture alone). The bottom line is: Know why you are choosing the Bible translation in your hands, check to see if there is possibly a more accurate translation (such as the NASB or the ESV), and then let Scripture interpret Scripture in all of your academic studies. However, before doing any of that, pray that the Spirit would give you wisdom and discernment in your studies in everything from the text you are reading to the commentaries/sermons/books you choose to read.
 
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Reading the Bible from "cover to cover" is indeed important. However, just because a person has the read the Bible from "Genesis to Revelation" does not guarantee that this one now has an understanding of the Bible. Though many of the Jews in the apostle Paul's day had read the first 39 books of the Bible (commonly called the Old Testament) that had been written up to that time, Paul said concerning the nation of Israel as a whole: "For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God; but not according to accurate knowledge ("accurate knowledge", Greek, epignosis, Strong;s # G1922); for, because of not knowing the righteousness of God but seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God."(Rom 10:2, 3)

Jesus told the Jews that "you are searching the Scriptures, because you think that by means of them you will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me."(John 5:39) These Jews failed to comprehend that Jesus was the promised Messiah, although these had been "searching the Scriptures," and the evidence he provided was unmistakable.(Matt 9:35)

Jesus further told the religious leaders: "Woe to you who are versed in the Law, because you took away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not go in, and those going in you hindered !”(Luke 11:52) Though "versed in the Law", these religious leaders were unwilling to understand "the Law", taking away "the key of knowledge" and hindering those who desired to "go in".

After having given an illustration of the "kingdom of the heavens" to the Jews, saying "a sower went out to sow" seed (Matt 13:3-9), Jesus then told his apostles that "to you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens, but to those people it is not granted."(Matt 13:11) Quoting from Isaiah 6:10, he further said that "this is why I speak to them (the Jews as a nation) by the use of illustrations, because, looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the sense of it ("get the sense of it", Greek suniemi, "to put together mentally", Strong's # G4920) Though the Jews had a knowledge of the "Law and the Prophets"(Matt 7:12), these still failed "to put together mentally" concerning the ' promised one,' Jesus as the Messiah and therefore "exercise faith" in him.

Because their "heart of this people has grown unreceptive" (Matt 13:15), years later, on April 3, 70 C.E., the Roman army under the command of General Titus, came against the nation of Israel, ending on August 30, 70 C.E., with the death toll of 1.1 million Jews, and the leveling of Jerusalem and its temple.

Many hinder others from understanding the Bible, by removing God's name of Jehovah and supplanting it with "Lord" or "God". In the days of Malachi, God told the priests: "And now this commandment is to you, O priests. If you will not listen, and if you will not lay it to heart to give glory to my name,” Jehovah of armies has said, “I shall also certainly send upon you the curse, and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have even cursed the blessing, because you are not laying it to heart.”(Mal 2:1, 2) Thus, as a result, these Jewish priests had "caused many to stumble in the law."(Mal 2:8) By removing God's name of Jehovah, Bible translators, along with all who discard God's name, have ' hindered those going in' to comprehend who "the only true God" is.(John 17:3)

Hence, there is more to understanding the Bible than just by reading it "cover to cover." To unlock it's real meaning, Jesus said in prayer to his Father: "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes."(Matt 11:25)

Those who are "wise and intellectual ones" by the world's standards are barred from understanding the Bible, placing their own viewpoint on the Scriptures, but those who are as "babes", humble, teachable, are granted to grasp it's deep meaning. A ' babe' may not even be able to read, but can be taught. That is why Jesus told the religious leaders, who had read the "Bible from cover to cover ": "Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and the harlots (these perhaps were physically illiterate but humbly teachable) are going ahead of you into the kingdom of God."(Matt 21:31)

Jesus further said that during his invisible "presence"(Matt 24:3), our time period, that a "faithful and wise servant" would provide Bible understanding to those desiring it, "to give them meat in due season."(Matt 24:45, King James Bible) Thus, accurate spiritual "food" would be be given out, "meat in due season," not spiritual "crumbs."(Luke 16:21)
 
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There's a lot to be learned from this thread. Unfortunately a lot of heat was generated along with the light.

Jdfree, I think you have presented an interesting idea about letting the Bible speak for itself. I do regret that you were a little ungracious about how you said it. I certainly do think anyone who spent the time to follow your advice would benefit. It is not clear who could follow it effectively though.

Theoretically, a person stranded on an island with a Bible might begin with no knowledge of Jesus to a more balanced view than most of us have. For most of us though, our best hope is that someone will tell them about Jesus without an attitude of "I know it all", and will disciple us to ask questions and challenge the biases we have.

Unfortunately, trying to read the Bible with no bias has often lead to distinctive beliefs that either have little warrant or coming to see others who don't agree with the beliefs as inferior and possibly dangerous.

I agree that any Christian who wants to grow in discernment should include going through the Bible, many times if they can, without analyzing it as they read or listen. Depending on the person's reading ability and temperament, the Bible could be read from an easy-reading translation, read from a translation which tries to retain as much of the original grammar as feasible, or listened to on audio tapes.
 
Reading the Bible from "cover to cover" is indeed important. However, just because a person has the read the Bible from "Genesis to Revelation" does not guarantee that this one now has an understanding of the Bible. Though many of the Jews in the apostle Paul's day had read the first 39 books of the Bible (commonly called the Old Testament) that had been written up to that time, Paul said concerning the nation of Israel as a whole: "For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God; but not according to accurate knowledge ("accurate knowledge", Greek, epignosis, Strong;s # G1922); for, because of not knowing the righteousness of God but seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God."(Rom 10:2, 3)

Jesus told the Jews that "you are searching the Scriptures, because you think that by means of them you will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me."(John 5:39) These Jews failed to comprehend that Jesus was the promised Messiah, although these had been "searching the Scriptures," and the evidence he provided was unmistakable.(Matt 9:35)

Jesus further told the religious leaders: "Woe to you who are versed in the Law, because you took away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not go in, and those going in you hindered !”(Luke 11:52) Though "versed in the Law", these religious leaders were unwilling to understand "the Law", taking away "the key of knowledge" and hindering those who desired to "go in".

After having given an illustration of the "kingdom of the heavens" to the Jews, saying "a sower went out to sow" seed (Matt 13:3-9), Jesus then told his apostles that "to you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens, but to those people it is not granted."(Matt 13:11) Quoting from Isaiah 6:10, he further said that "this is why I speak to them (the Jews as a nation) by the use of illustrations, because, looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the sense of it ("get the sense of it", Greek suniemi, "to put together mentally", Strong's # G4920) Though the Jews had a knowledge of the "Law and the Prophets"(Matt 7:12), these still failed "to put together mentally" concerning the ' promised one,' Jesus as the Messiah and therefore "exercise faith" in him.

Because their "heart of this people has grown unreceptive" (Matt 13:15), years later, on April 3, 70 C.E., the Roman army under the command of General Titus, came against the nation of Israel, ending on August 30, 70 C.E., with the death toll of 1.1 million Jews, and the leveling of Jerusalem and its temple.

Many hinder others from understanding the Bible, by removing God's name of Jehovah and supplanting it with "Lord" or "God". In the days of Malachi, God told the priests: "And now this commandment is to you, O priests. If you will not listen, and if you will not lay it to heart to give glory to my name,” Jehovah of armies has said, “I shall also certainly send upon you the curse, and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have even cursed the blessing, because you are not laying it to heart.”(Mal 2:1, 2) Thus, as a result, these Jewish priests had "caused many to stumble in the law."(Mal 2:8) By removing God's name of Jehovah, Bible translators, along with all who discard God's name, have ' hindered those going in' to comprehend who "the only true God" is.(John 17:3)

Hence, there is more to understanding the Bible than just by reading it "cover to cover." To unlock it's real meaning, Jesus said in prayer to his Father: "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes."(Matt 11:25)

Those who are "wise and intellectual ones" by the world's standards are barred from understanding the Bible, placing their own viewpoint on the Scriptures, but those who are as "babes", humble, teachable, are granted to grasp it's deep meaning. A ' babe' may not even be able to read, but can be taught. That is why Jesus told the religious leaders, who had read the "Bible from cover to cover ": "Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and the harlots (these perhaps were physically illiterate but humbly teachable) are going ahead of you into the kingdom of God."(Matt 21:31)

Jesus further said that during his invisible "presence"(Matt 24:3), our time period, that a "faithful and wise servant" would provide Bible understanding to those desiring it, "to give them meat in due season."(Matt 24:45, King James Bible) Thus, accurate spiritual "food" would be be given out, "meat in due season," not spiritual "crumbs."(Luke 16:21)
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Jaareshiah, are you a Jehovah's witness? or ex Jw?

just curious, I have read several of your post and some of your terminology reminds me of the borg (brooklyn organization)
 
And the scriptures you quote are from the NWT (I just checked).

I would like to read your story. Have you posted your testamony here at talk Jesus? You couldn't possibly be an active in good standing witness if you are on what they call an "apostate" site that is "in league with satan". So I must assume you are an ex jw.

Where you disfellowshiped or did you fade?

ok.. sorry for the interuption of this thread..
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The title of this thread is "Accurately informed perspective for belief" and there was discussion on different versions of the bible.

Of all the translations of the Bible that I am privy to, The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures is the least accurate of them all. It was deliberately manipulated to conform with the Watchtower's false doctrines.

I find it interesting that the scripture that Jaareshiah quoted that made me question wether or not they were jw/exjw is one of the scriptures that so accurately describes the watchtower organization.

Luke 11 in the NWT ...

42 But woe to YOU Pharisees, because YOU give the tenth of the mint and the rue and of every [other] vegetable, but YOU pass by the justice and the love of God! These things YOU were under obligation to do, but those other things not to omit. 43 Woe to YOU Pharisees, because YOU love the front seats in the synagogues and the greetings in the marketplaces! 44 Woe to YOU, because YOU are as those memorial tombs which are not in evidence, so that men walk upon them and do not know [it]!”

45 In answer a certain one of those versed in the Law said to him: “Teacher, in saying these things you also insult us.” 46 Then he said: “Woe also to YOU who are versed in the Law, because YOU load men with loads hard to be borne, but YOU yourselves do not touch the loads with one of YOUR fingers!

47 “Woe to YOU, because YOU build the memorial tombs of the prophets, but YOUR forefathers killed them! 48 Certainly YOU are witnesses of the deeds of YOUR forefathers and yet YOU give consent to them, because these killed the prophets but YOU are building [their tombs]. 49 On this account the wisdom of God also said, ‘I will send forth to them prophets and apostles, and they will kill and persecute some of them, 50 so that the blood of all the prophets spilled from the founding of the world may be required from this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel down to the blood of Zech·a·ri´ah, who was slain between the altar and the house.’ Yes, I tell YOU, it will be required from this generation.

52 “Woe to YOU who are versed in the Law, because YOU took away the key of knowledge; YOU yourselves did not go in, and those going in YOU hindered!”


Now for an ACCURATE translation ESV

37 While Jesus was speaking, a Pharisee asked him to dine with him, so he went in and reclined at table. 38 The Pharisee was astonished to see that he did not first wash before dinner. 39 And the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. 40 You fools! Did not he who made the outside make the inside also? 41 But give as alms those things that are within, and behold, everything is clean for you.

42 “But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and every herb, and neglect justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 43 Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the best seat in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. 44 Woe to you! For you are like unmarked graves, and people walk over them without knowing it.”

45 One of the lawyers answered him, “Teacher, in saying these things you insult us also.” 46 And he said, “Woe to you lawyers also! For you load people with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not touch the burdens with one of your fingers. 47 Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets whom your fathers killed. 48 So you are witnesses and you consent to the deeds of your fathers, for they killed them, and you build their tombs. 49 Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’ 50 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation. 52 Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering.”


"you are full of greed and wickedness." A publishing company that enslaves it's "publishers" to labor for free to perpetuate their bottom line.


"neglect justice and the love of God." They pervert justice by protecting those that lie about their sin whist they disfellowship those that speak truth.


"love the best seat in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces." and at the meetings and conventions and they reserve the back row for those to be shunned and given no greeting at all.

"For you load people with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not touch the burdens with one of your fingers"

I could write a book on that one.


"For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering.”

Those that truly want a real relationship with the Lord God creator of the Universe are deceived into believing Jesus is Michael the Arch Angel and the Holy Spirit is a thing.

Jesus (the real Jesus) is the way the truth and the life and NO ONE comes to the father but by him. So to belittle Jesus to rank of Angel and not God, and for the FDS/governing body to replace The Holy Spirit in the lives of the people is definitely HINDERING those who really want to know God by giving them a false god to worship and holding them in fear and dispair. Their only joy is "pleasing jehovah" by mindlessly obeying every whim of a group of men in Brooklyn.

BTW
"Jehovah" is not God's name. It is an inaccurate translation combining the consonants of Yahweh and vowels of Adonai.

The TRUTH about what the watchtower calls "being in the truth" is that they are deceived into believing a lie.

Truth is found in Jesus. And Truth will set you free.

Now THAT is Accurate knowledge!
 
Jws only celebrate one "holiday" and that is 14 Nissan (jewish calender) which is the day Jesus died on the cross (They don't call the cross the cross, they call it a stake that Jesus was impaled on.. another diss to the means by which we are saved)

Anyway they "celebrate" it and make a big deal out of it and have a major push to invite unsuspecting people to the Kingdom Halls so they can REJECT JESUS! Tiz true.

They call it "The Memorial".. and they forbid you to drink of the cup or partake of the bread unless you are one of the 144000 they claim are the "annointed". They literally "pass" the cup and symbolicly reject Jesus.



As for accurate knowledge ..

The night before Jesus gave His life on the Cross, He celebrated Passover (14 nissan) with the deciples

Jesus' "Last Supper" was a Passover seder. During a Passover seder, Four cups of wine are consumed. Two before the main meal and two after the meal. They are called "the cup of blessing" "the cup of plagues" The cup of REDEMPTION and the cup of praise.

Passover Seder Dinner - Messianic Haggadah

When Jesus took the cup (after the meal) He gave the deciples it's true meaning, That was the CUP OF REDEMPTION.

To reject that cup is to reject redemption.


Luke 22
14 And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. 15 And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you I will not eat it [2] until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” 17 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he said, “Take this, and divide it among yourselves. 18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” 19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

Google "Afikomen" for the significance of breaking of the bread in a passover seder... (or click the link above that I gave for the cups of wine)
 
Actually, in my previous post I said that 14 nissan is the day Jesus died on the cross. That may be inaccurate.. It is the day before.. maybe?


It is late and I am tired and I will try to check into it tomorrow.

or maybe Jaareshiah could give us the specifics.
 
And the scriptures you quote are from the NWT (I just checked).

I would like to read your story. Have you posted your testamony here at talk Jesus? You couldn't possibly be an active in good standing witness if you are on what they call an "apostate" site that is "in league with satan". So I must assume you are an ex jw.

Where you disfellowshiped or did you fade?

ok.. sorry for the interuption of this thread..
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No, I have no need to post my "testimony" here, and I am in good standing with the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses. This site is not an "apostate" website, but is only a religious forum, whereby Scriptural information can be placed so that people can give thought to what the Bible really teaches.
 
Actually, in my previous post I said that 14 nissan is the day Jesus died on the cross. That may be inaccurate.. It is the day before.. maybe?


It is late and I am tired and I will try to check into it tomorrow.

or maybe Jaareshiah could give us the specifics.

Yes, Jesus died on a torture stake on Nisan 14, 33 C.E.
 
No, I have no need to post my "testimony" here, and I am in good standing with the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses. This site is not an "apostate" website, but is only a religious forum, whereby Scriptural information can be placed so that people can give thought to what the Bible really teaches.

Does the Bible "really" teach that Jesus is "really" Michael the arch angel?

Does the Bible "really" teach that the Holy Spirit is a thing?

Does the Bible "really" teach that Jesus was not physically raised from the dead (only spiritually raised)?

(no, it doesn't)


How about a few questions specifically for you..


Are you claiming time spent on this website on your time sheet?

If your elders discovered you were visiting a site such as this one, would you remain "in good standing"?

Did you reject communion at the last memorial?
 
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