Is Hell forever?

[Gracealone]

Earlier you posted;


But David said, " Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."

And Peter said, " That is why the Good News was preached even to those who have died—so that although their bodies were punished with death, they could still live in the spirit as God does."

Doesn't it seem that these scriptures conflict with what you stated?

No ,jiggyfly, but your understanding of them does.
Revelation 14:10-11 says; And the smoke of their torment ascends forever, and ever, and they have no rest day,or night......they will have eternal awareness ,but not life.
Hell is eternal separation from God, the Bible says their worm shall never die.
But, is that life. and isn't that still eternal separation from God?
Luke 16:19-31 The story of the rich man and Lazarus gives us a glimpse into hell.
I can say honestly, I do not have total understanding of these things either,but I know I can trust Gods word.
Revelation 20: also helps us understand better too.

Also remember...It is appointed unto man ,once to die, then after that the judgment.
Does any of this help?
The rich man in hell, had no second chance to leave there. He was aware he was there, but........

PS: jiggyfly, I just saw your other response, and will try to address that tomorrow.
It is late and I'm dead tired, hope you understand.

 

[Trishann]

I have to correct myself or make myself clear, people are the ones that goes to far on one side, not the "Word of God".

Your sister in Christ, Trish

 

[Gracealone]

1Peter 4:6
That is why the Good News was preached even to those who have died—so that although their bodies were punished with death, they could still live in the spirit as God does.

Don't you see a second chance here?

Psalms 139:7&8
7 *Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8*If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Does this sound like permanent seperation?

I think for most of us, believe what we have been told and taught by others without the whole counsel of HolySpirit and the scriptures making our understanding incomplete at best.

The thing you are not seeing is these are the dead who died in faith, believers.
Not those who are in unbelief.
This is David speaking here, he was a man after Gods own heart!

Hell was not made for man,but for Satan and his angles, but man can choose to go there, or just through neglect ,and indifference go there, for the human race died way back when Adam and Eve sinned.
We are condemned already if we do not come to Christ.

 

[Ed]

Psalms 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

Yes, God is a god of Love. But he is also righteous:

“Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.” Daniel 9:14

 

[jiggyfly]

I must apologize to everyone, hope no one is offended. I love to study the scriptures and and have a zeal for the truth. I am in error here, it is not my place to change anyone's concept of hell. It is a very sensitive topic here as well, and I should have avoided it. Again please forgive me and accept my apologies.

 

[Boanerges]

I can't see anything wrong with what you said JF, thus forum seems to be about bible study and I always enjoy a biblical perspective.
This life is simply a test to see what our choice will be. If one has a heart that will yield to Christ and longs to be with Him He will move heaven and earth to bring that one in the kingdom. Many sadly choose to be their own gods or to follow that which pleases their flesh. We get one life per customer and then we must face God either in Christ or be judged under the law.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[Trishann]

With me brother Jigglyfly, there is no problems, all is well.

Your sister in Christ, Trish

 

[jiggyfly]

With me brother Jigglyfly, there is no problems, all is well.

Your sister in Christ, Trish

Thanks sis Trish.

Sorry for goofing up your thread Ed.

 

[Gracealone]

I must apologize to everyone, hope no one is offended. I love to study the scriptures and and have a zeal for the truth. I am in error here, it is not my place to change anyone's concept of hell. It is a very sensitive topic here as well, and I should have avoided it. Again please forgive me and accept my apologies.

jiggyfly,
We all love you, and I see such a sweet spirit in you that I know blesses the heart of God.
Keep seeking his face, bless your heart!:friends:

 

[Ed]

Thanks sis Trish.

Sorry for goofing up your thread Ed.

No worries jiggy, we are all learning here. Don't be afraid to post your thoughts.

 

[benjc]

Hello Ed, I read your post two days ago and was waiting for the right time to reply. Yes you're right about "In my mind, if hell isn't forever, or if we are guaranteed our salvation, then the many hell scriptures in the Bible wouldn't be there". Its not a guarantee that you when u accept Christ, u will go to Heaven and escape hell. I got some scriptures which clarify this;
Revelation 3:11 says Keep safe what you have, so that no one will rob you of your victory prize. This means that if you live your life carelessly, you will surely miss out on Heaven and go to hell cuz the prizes are rewarded in Heaven and not in hell[the only prize hell offers is eternal agony] and as B-A-C quoted the scripture Rev 20:10, suffering and pain will last forever and ever.
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About the question u asked regarding turning your back on Jesus I will ask you to read Hebrews 6:4-8 Its says For how can those who abandon their faith be brought back to repent again? They were once in God’s light; they tasted heavens gift and received their share of the Holy Spirit; they knew from experience that God’s Word is good, and they had felt the powers of the coming age. And they abandoned their faith! It is impossible to bring them back to repent again, because they are again crucifying the son of God and exposing him to public shame. God blesses the soil which drinks in the rain that often falls on it and which grows plants that are useful to those for whom it is cultivated. But if it grows thorns and weeds, it is worth nothing; it is in danger of being destroyed by fire.

 

[Gracealone]

Hello Ed, I read your post two days ago and was waiting for the right time to reply. Yes you're right about "In my mind, if hell isn't forever, or if we are guaranteed our salvation, then the many hell scriptures in the Bible wouldn't be there". Its not a guarantee that you when u accept Christ, u will go to Heaven and escape hell. I got some scriptures which clarify this;
Revelation 3:11 says Keep safe what you have, so that no one will rob you of your victory prize. This means that if you live your life carelessly, you will surely miss out on Heaven and go to hell cuz the prizes are rewarded in Heaven and not in hell[the only prize hell offers is eternal agony] and as B-A-C quoted the scripture Rev 20:10, suffering and pain will last forever and ever.
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About the question u asked regarding turning your back on Jesus I will ask you to read Hebrews 6:4-8 Its says For how can those who abandon their faith be brought back to repent again? They were once in God’s light; they tasted heavens gift and received their share of the Holy Spirit; they knew from experience that God’s Word is good, and they had felt the powers of the coming age. And they abandoned their faith! It is impossible to bring them back to repent again, because they are again crucifying the son of God and exposing him to public shame. God blesses the soil which drinks in the rain that often falls on it and which grows plants that are useful to those for whom it is cultivated. But if it grows thorns and weeds, it is worth nothing; it is in danger of being destroyed by fire.

Sorry benjc that does not clarify you can lose your salvation, neither scripture does.
You are reading into it what you have heard somewhere!
What you are seeing is a statement that says simply..."IF" you could lose your salvation, it would be impossible to to bring them back again for Jesus would have to die all over again.
We know for sure when we sin, we can repent and receive forgiveness so this vrs is simply showing the opposite of what you are saying. He is showing the absolute falacy of believing you can lose your salvation.
You can lose fellowship, and reward, but not your eternal life.
Eternal life given to those who are truly born again, is eternal...
And if faith is the finished work of Christ isnt a guarantee of eternal life then you make Christ a liar, and our faith is in vain.
He has promised eternal life, and the word says we "HAVE" eternal life which means right now!
And no that doesn't give us license to go out and sin all we want.
A person that has that attitude I doubt is born again.
The book of Romans makes very clear our secure position in Jesus, and His finished work. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God, and our salvation depends on his faithfulness not ours.

The other is speaking of reward, not salvation for he is talking to the faithful church, not the dead church just previous. Then he speaks to the lukewarm church just after this. which he says of ,I will vomit you out of my mouth.......these are not born again, and go into the tribulation.
Then Chad has laid out the outline from Gods word on these things far better than I can explain, I would council you to search them out, and enter Gods rest, and be at peace.
This is not taught in scripture:
(Its not a guarantee that you when u accept Christ, u will go to Heaven and escape hell. I got some scriptures which clarify this;)

You make the death of Christ of no effect by saying such a thing.
Jesus said, Of those whom you gave me, I have lost none.....
That includes, even me.
He is able to keep me from falling, and I believe he knows better than me. 2Tim. 1:12

 

[Boanerges]

Hi Ben! I believe that Revelation 3:11 is talking baout our reward and not our salvation. As a Christian our works are judged to see if they were done in the power of and obediance to Christ. These are gold, silver and precious stones fit to lay at the Kings feet. If they are the work of man then they are wood, hay and stubble to be consumed by the fire of God's holiness as no flesh shall glory in His presence.
<DIR>1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

As far as the poor souls described in Hebrews this is not refering to you my friend as evidenced by the Holy Spirit drawing you back. As I have posted previously (my opinon) this can be understood by reading Jesus parable of the seed:

<DIR>Mat 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Mat 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
</DIR>
Jesus will not loose one who comes to Him with a truly surrendered heart my friend for He will never leave us of forsake us (Heb 13:5). Salvation is something that we can positively know we have (1Jn 5:13).
</DIR>

 

[Trishann]

If I may I will like to share some scripture. I do believe that salvation is a free gift but I also believe you can receive it or reject it. It is free but it doesn't mean we live our lifes as we please.

John 3:36 - He that "believeth" on the Son hath everlasting life and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Hebrews 8:9 - And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that "obey" Him.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven: but he that doeth the "will" of my Father which is in heaven.

Yes we have to believe, obey and do His will. Yes we do make mistakes but we have an advocate, our Lord Jesus Christ, but we have to ask for forgiveness and turn from it after knowing the truth.

Your sister in Christ, Trish

 

[windmill2kids]

Trishann, God Bless YOu!!!! ALSO.

It is so true!!! You are blessed with the truth,, and that I love! It's a relief to me.
As for the post from what's his or her name.
ASK GOD FOR UNDERSTANDING IF YOU TRULY WANT IT AND HE WILL GIVE IT! I PROMISE THAT! GET A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS FIRST AND THEN PRAY FOR GOD TO FILL YOU WITH HIS HOLY SPIRIT AND HIS KNOWLEDGE AND TRUTH, AND HE WILLLLLL.
Love you so much,,
In Jesus Name!

 

[Ed]

Dictionary: salvation (săl-vā'shən)

Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionaryn.

Preservation or deliverance from destruction, difficulty, or evil.
A source, means, or cause of such preservation or deliverance.
Christianity.
Deliverance from the power or penalty of sin; redemption.
The agent or means that brings about such deliverance.

I am all for salvation..but it seems to me that "Once Saved, Always Saved" is a false doctrine. We must work out our salvation with fear and trmbling...knowing the times are evil, and that even for a little morsel of bread we can easily turn our back on Chirst.

We should never assume that a prostitute-turned-Christian, who backslid into her prostitution is still going to make it into heaven. She has, in effect, made the blood of Jesus of no importance.

Sin has swallowed her up, the mouth of hades is wide open.

It's gonna take her a LOT of effort to get out of there, and renew herself again to repentance.

In our early Christian walk, we were pretty much safe, as things were brand new, and we had a lot to learn. But as we grow older and learn more, and get more experience as a Christian, we know what to look for more and more, in our enemies tactics.

 

[pafindr]

We should never assume that a prostitute-turned-Christian, who backslid into her prostitution is still going to make it into heaven. She has, in effect, made the blood of Jesus of no importance.

The question would actually be, was she truly saved in the first place?
If she was truly saved she would not purposely go back into prostitution.

 

[Ed]

The question would actually be, was she truly saved in the first place?
If she was truly saved she would not purposely go back into prostitution.

I'm only using the prostitute as an example. While I agree with you, we have to remember that the devil is very cunning. While she may not exactly go back into her former lifestyle, I feel she may be tempted in other areas.

This is why Jesus told the disciples to be alert

 

[Gracealone]

replying to this staement:
I am all for salvation..but it seems to me that "Once Saved, Always Saved" is a false doctrine. We must work out our salvation with fear and trmbling...knowing the times are evil, and that even for a little morsel of bread we can easily turn our back on Chirst.

We should never assume that a prostitute-turned-Christian, who backslid into her prostitution is still going to make it into heaven. She has, in effect, made the blood of Jesus of no importance.

Sin has swallowed her up, the mouth of hades is wide open.

It's gonna take her a LOT of effort to get out of there, and renew herself again to repentance.

In our early Christian walk, we were pretty much safe, as things were brand new, and we had a lot to learn. But as we grow older and learn more, and get more experience as a Christian, we know what to look for more and more, in our enemies tactics.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Bible clearly teaches if we could lose our salvation we cannot return again to repentance for we would have to crucify Christ all over again.
Hebrews 6:1-6 In context this is saying, once truly born again we cannot lose our salvation. For.....
As you know from other passages we can repent of our sin, for Jesus died, once, for ALL.
Not only for all of us, but for ALL our sins.

If you cannot work for your salvation, you cant work to keep it. Works come because we Have it.
To say we can lose what Jesus promised as eternal, is making his death of no effect.
He died,once for all.

 

[rhomphaia]

"..not all of those who say "Lord,Lord " will make it to heaven , but only those who do the will of my Father in heaven..."

"..and the smoke of their torment rises up forever and ever.."

"..if any one's name was not found written in the book of life ,he was cast into the lake of fire."

Seems in revelation that Hell is not forever,but the lake of fire is.....