Invitation to Study Romans

[NewMex]

I have some of my own thoughts on this but here we go.
Rm 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is God’s power for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Tells us that the gospel is God's power of salvation to those who believe. If someone were to hear only the NT more specifically only the gospels, they could come to salvation ( "all" other things considered ie.. grace, faith etc.)?

Again I do have a few thoughts on this and at this point believe it is possible but to keep it simple that is my question.

Thank you and God bless.

 

[Maureen]

All I can contribute is my husband has been hearing the NT so the Gospels, every Sunday, he's no nearer repentance than when he first started hearing.
Although I say he is not listening, hearing but not listening.
Strange thing is, this was spoken the other Sunday which confirmed it to me.

The guys I'm sure will be along soon Newmex.
I do remember Ritchie saying as we study we can ask questions.

 

[Richie]

I have some of my own thoughts on this but here we go.
Rm 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is God’s power for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Tells us that the gospel is God's power of salvation to those who believe. If someone were to hear only the NT more specifically only the gospels, they could come to salvation ( "all" other things considered ie.. grace, faith etc.)?

Again I do have a few thoughts on this and at this point believe it is possible but to keep it simple that is my question.

Thank you and God bless.

Yes Brother. Indeed the Gospel is God's power of salvation for those who believe in Him. Most importantly the Gospel is the good news of Salvation through Jesus Christ. It is not by hearing that we receive salvation, but it is by accepting God's forgiveness, acknowledging the fact that we have all sinned and fallen short of God's glory.

Any more questions brother? Please ask all your questions freely.

In about few minutes I will reply to Sister Maureen's post.

 

[Richie]

Dear Sister Maureen,

Your post on Romans 4 is excellent. I loved reading your post. Your post is indeed inspired by the Holy Spirit. Once we are saved, our inspiration is definitely from the Holy Spirit.

Dear Brother Rjones, Sister Maureen and to everyone who is studying with us:

I asked a question few days ago regarding Abraham and Moses.

I'm very happy to know that you're trying to get input for my question, do some home work and post the answer for my question.

I believe this is the answer. First I will tell what I first thought as the answer, next I will post what my pastor once preached about this matter in one of his sermons and at last when I ask this question to my mother, I will post what she told me.

At first I believed that this was the answer:

Abraham didn't know the law, so he had no idea of how terrible his mistake is. We've discussed this fact earlier that 'the Law revealed the knowledge of sin'. In Sister Maureen's post on Romans 4, she mentioned:

Abraham was not saved by the keeping of the law because it had not been given,.....

Now this is what my Pastor hinted on one of his sermons:

Ishmael's descendants are Arabs. Today, they are doing the maximum damage to the world, in one way they are fulfilling the end-time prophecies about Israel. So, Abraham's mistake (of having Ishmael through his bond servant) has caused the end time scriptures to be fulfilled.

Now let me come to what my mother told me:

Whenever God told Abraham to do what He told him to do, he did it without asking God questions like What if this happens? or what if that happens? Let us see it with some examples:

Genesis 12:1-4: When God told Abraham to leave his country (He was an idol worshiper), he obeyed God immediately and left his country. He didn't ask God any questions and he didn't doubt.

Now let us see another example:

Genesis 22: God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son Issac, he immediately obeyed God and went ahead. He didn't doubt God's promises of multiplying his descendants as the sands of the sea.

Just look at the faith of Abraham, he didn't doubt God when God told him to do what He told to do.

Now if you come to case of Moses, when God called him at Mount Sinai (Exodus 3), he doubted God and asked questions to God:

Who am I to go to Pharaoh? How do you expect me to lead Israel out of Egypt? Now if I go and tell my people that the God of your ancestors has sent me, what if they don't believe me?

See the difference between Abraham and Moses. I believe this is the reason why Abraham is called the father of faith.

Any questions?

I want to hear from you. In my next post I will post on Romans 4.

God bless you.

I will post on Romans 4 tomorrow, now it is midnight. I have to sleep.

Good night.

 

[Maureen]

Abraham should be the great example of faith to us today.

No questions asked, just obey.

Trust and obey, as the hymn says.

 

[rjones]

Dear Brother Richie, Here's what I have to offer as an answer to your question.

The Unconditional Covenant with Abraham

In Gen 12:1-4 We see God begins to form a new people who will become a nation; God calls Abram at the age of 75 years away from “your country, your family and your father's house, to a land I will would show you.”

He promised Abram “I will make you a great nation; I will bless you and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

Gen 17:7-8 "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an EVERLASTING covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, THE LAND wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

Abraham is our biological father and the ‘Man of Faith’.
Heb 11:8 states that “he went out, not knowing where he was going,” he left by faith.

The Conditional Covenant with Moses

Moses is our spiritual founder, 'The Servant of God' and the 'Man of God'. He is also God's lawmaker.


(Exodus 3:5-6) ""Do not come any closer," God said. "Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground." Then he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob." At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God."

The Lord introduces Himself as the God of the Abrahamic Covenant as well as the God of Abrahams lineage Isaac and Jacob. This is not new plan, but simply the outworking of the old plan, revealed to Abraham in Genesis 12 and 15.

(Exodus 34:28)"Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments."

Here we can see that the covenant with Moses is conditional.

I hope this helps to answer your question.
God bless.

 

[Richie]

Excellent answer Brother Rjones. I loved the way you brought the difference between God's covenant with Abraham as unconditional and God's covenant with Moses as conditional. I hope you've seen my answer as well. I will post on Romans 4 very shortly.

God bless you.

 

[Richie]

Dear Brother Rjones, Sister Maureen and to everyone studying with us:

Greetings to all of you. Now I have holidays for few days, it is very hot over here in India. Please don't mind if my post is too long. I've closed my post with verse 16 because my post is already very long. I don't want it to be longer. Here is my post on Romans 4:1-16:

Romans 4:1-3:

Verse 1: What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

Verse 2: For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Verse 3: For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Now in these verses we see a new insight about faith. From these verses we can clearly say, that it is by faith that we are made right in God's sight. In fact if we want to prove that we are God's children we must have faith. Now please don't mind about the kind of example I'm about to give, because I want to bring out one more point about faith.

Now Brother Rjones, if you consider your children, they will surely have some of your physical qualities and some of your mental qualities. Now Sister Maureen, if you consider your children, they will surely have some of your physical qualities and some of your mental qualities. Even in my case, I look just like my father and mentally, I have some of my father's and some of my mother's qualities.

In the same way, if we have to be God's children we should have faith because faith is of God. Without faith it is impossible to please God and be acceptable in His sight. Without faith we cannot be made right in God's sight and we cannot prove ourselves to be God's children. It is impossible to live a Christian life without faith. Now the reason why I asked that question about Abraham and Moses in my previous post because it is related to this Chapter.

Without a doubt by doing good works the enemy offers us a chance to boast. If we are justified by good works, we have a wonderful chance to boast. Now boasting is not of God. It is of Satan. Now just as our Brother Rjones mentioned, we can never be justified in God's eyes by works:

Nevertheless such boasting is nothing before God. This boasting is nothing before God because even if works could justify a man he would still, in some way, fall short of the glory of God.

Now let us go to Romans 4:4-5.

Romans 4:4-5:

Verse 4: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Verse 5: But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. KJV

In the New living translation it is put out in a very simple manner:

Romans 4:4-5:

Verse 4: When people work, their wages are not a gift. Workers earn what they receive.

Verse 5: But people are declared righteous because of their faith, not because of their work. NLT

So all I can say is that we receive wages (earthly or spiritual) through our works, in other words, we reap what ever we sow. We receive the fruits of our works. But by faith we are declared righteous in God's sight, not by our works. So Salvation is an absolutely free gift.

Now King David gives us a beautiful and simple meaning of Salvation:

Romans 4:7-8:

Verse 7: Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Verse 8: Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

In the New living translation it is given in this way:

Romans 4:7-8:

Verse 7: “Oh, what joy for those whose disobedience is forgiven, whose sins are put out of sight.

Verse 8: Yes, what joy for those whose sin is no longer counted against them by the Lord.”

It is indeed, indescribable joy when the Lord washes away our sins.

Now let us come to Romans 4:9-10.

Romans 4:9-10:

9 Now then, is this blessing only for the Jews, or is it for Gentiles, too? Well, what about Abraham? We have been saying he was declared righteous by God because of his faith.

10 But how did his faith help him? Was he declared righteous only after he had been circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? The answer is that God accepted him first, and then he was circumcised later.

Now Paul the Apostle starts his discussion with circumcision. He brought out the real essence of circumcision in Abraham's life in very few words. Many people among the Jews believe that it is by circumcision that we're made acceptable in God's sight. But Abraham was made right in God's sight much before he was circumcised.

Romans 4:11-12:

11 The circumcision ceremony was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous, even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are made right with God by faith.

12 And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised.

Circumcision is a sign directly from God that Abraham was made right in His sight by faith. So Abraham is the father of faith, not only to the circumcised, but also to the uncircumcised. So, we must take Abraham as our spiritual example so that we will believe forever that it is by Faith that we are made right in God's sight. This is the main reason why God is called the God of Abraham.

Now, let me go a little bit out of track, because there are some preachers misguiding people. Now, I have heard of a pastor who is taking advantage of calling God as "The God of Abraham.". Now what this pastor said is, that we can call God as the God of ......... (Pastor kept his name in that blank dotted underline). I don't remember the name of the pastor who mentioned this. Just look at the way they are misguiding the people. Isn't this ridiculous? I just don't know how he will answer God for what he is doing.

Now let us come back on track.

Romans 4:13-14:

Verse 13: It is clear, then, that God’s promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was not based on obedience to God’s law, but on the new relationship with God that comes by faith.

Verse 14: So if you claim that God’s promise is for those who obey God’s law and think they are “good enough” in God’s sight, then you are saying that faith is useless. And in that case, the promise is also meaningless.

Now here, Paul the Apostle again talks about the problem with the law. Now, if we begin to obey the law and think that we are good enough in God's sight, then we are making faith useless. Now this doesn't mean that we have to disobey the law, but we have to fulfill the law, not with human strength, but by faith.

Romans 3:31: Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.

Now let us go to:

Romans 4:15: But the law brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!)

In fact I mentioned some points similar to this verse. No law, no transgression (simple isn't it). This is what I mentioned earlier:

Indeed, Paul the Apostle is talking about Sin's advantage in the law. God gave us the law, so that we may abide by it and live in His presence. After the law was given unto men, the knowledge of sin was revealed unto men.

For example, "God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge.". Because God told them not to do it; disobeying what God told them not to do, will obviously lead to the knowledge of sin. Similarly through the Law, the knowledge of sin is revealed.

Some people, when ever you tell them to do something, they do something contrary to what you told them to do. Why? Because it is the power of sin dwelling in them.

In the same manner, when God Almighty gave the law unto men, the same thing happened with men. We knew things which were certainly wrong and we did them many times.

Romans 4:16: So that’s why faith is the key! God’s promise is given to us as a free gift. And we are certain to receive it, whether or not we follow Jewish customs, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe.

Now Paul the Apostle again mentions the fact that Abraham is the Father of faith, and if we have faith, we become Abraham's inheritance through Jesus (because He took our sins upon Himself on the cross). Of course we will definitely prove it through the world around us that we are God's Children by faith.

God bless you.

 

[Maureen]

Just something that sparked in my mind:

I have a fridge magnet, and it says 'The 10 Commandments are not multiple choice'

sorry bit of track again, just wanted to share.

Have printed off your study Ritchie now, will soak in it soon.

Praise our God.

 

[rjones]

Here's my post on this verse.


Romans 4:16 "Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all."

Faith is related to grace in the same way works is related to law. Grace and law are the principles, and faith and works are the means by which we pursue those principles for our relationship with God.

We are not saved by faith. We are saved by God’s grace, and grace is appropriated by faith.

Therefore, the promise comes by faith: Salvation is of faith, and nothing else. We can only receive salvation by the principle of grace through faith. Grace cannot be obtained through works, whether they be past, present, or promised because by definition grace is given without regard to anything in the one who receives it.

So that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring: The promise can only be sure if it is according to grace. If law was the basis of our salvation, then our salvation would depend on our performance in keeping the law - and no one can keep the law good enough to be saved by it. A law-promise of salvation can never be sure.

Not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham: If our relationship with God is according to grace (not circumcision or law-keeping), then that relationship is for those who are of the faith of Abraham, even if they are not of his lineage.

A Gentile could say, “I am not a Jew, I am not of the law; but I am of the faith of Abraham,” and he would be just as saved as a Jewish believer in Jesus would be.

God bless

 

[Discipler]

The book of Romans is one of my favorite books in the new testament. It, along with the book of Galatians, is the story of our righteousness in Christ. Without a thorough understanding of the doctrine of righteousness, you cannot live the christian life successfully.

Notice my screen name, Discipler. I chose this name because it is my passion, to disciple new believers. I had been a christian for about 25 years before God made a way for me to attend Bible School, but I struggled almost daily with a sense of guilt and condemnation because I had never been discipled. I didn't understand the message of this precious book. But in the first quarter of Bible School, I had a whole class on the subject of righteousness. I used to sit in that class almost in tears thinking, "I have been looking for this all my life. Why didn't someone tell me about this?"

Today, every study I do, every song I write, is somehow tied to righteousness. Even if the subject matter is something else, somewhere in the message you will find undertones of the doctrine of righteousness. Oh how I love this book!!!

 

[rjones]

Dear Brother Discipler.
I want to welcome you to Talk Jesus and to this in-depth study.
I'm looking forward to reading your posts.
God bless.

 

[rjones]

Praise God! Blessing to all who are studying with us.
Here's my post for the next 2 verses.

The life-giving power of the God Abraham believed in.

Romans 4:17-18 "As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were. Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be".

Even as it took a supernatural life-giving work to make Abraham the physical father of many nations, it also took a supernatural life-giving work to make him the spiritual father of many nations. God’s life-giving power is demonstrated in the manner in which He can give life to the dead and call those things which do not exist (such as our righteousness) as though they did (by counting us righteous).

If God could call the dead womb of Sarah to life, he can call those who are dead in trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1) to new life in Jesus.

"I’m greatly comforted when God speaks about me as righteous, justified, glorified, holy, pure, and saintly. God can talk about such things before they exist, because He knows they will exist." (Smith)

Abraham’s example also helps us to understand the nature of faith. The conception of Abraham’s son Isaac was a miracle, but it was not an immaculate conception. Abraham’s faith did not mean that he did nothing and just waited for God to create a child in Sarah’s womb. Abraham and Sarah had marital relations and trusted God for a miraculous result. This shows us that faith does not mean doing nothing, but doing all with trust and reliance on God and His miraculous work.

“All true believers, like Abraham, obey. Obedience is faith in action. You are to walk in the steps of the faith of father Abraham. His faith did not sit still, it took steps; and you must take these steps also by obeying God because you believe him. That faith which has no works with it is a dead faith, and will justify no one.” (Spurgeon)

“Sense corrects imagination, reason corrects sense, but faith corrects both. It will not be, saith sense; it cannot be, saith reason; it both can and will be, saith faith, for I have a promise for it.” (Trapp)

God bless.

 

[Maureen]

Bros
I'm swotting up with both posts.
Be back asap.
Have 2 Grandsons stopping this weekend, so isn't easy, believe me.

 

[Maureen]

Just reading over these scriptures and this has come to mind, so I hope you won't mind if I post it here.

How is this, my husband knows the part of the law, plus many other parts, but this one in particular rises now and again between us.
Keeping Holy the Lord's Day, this being a sinful thing does not register with him as he continually breaks it, knowingly.
He says it doesnt apply to him as he's not a Christian, but surely the law was given for the ungodly, he is therefore either unaware of the sin envolved or just doesn't car.

We know while we have faith we will endeavour to keep the law but when faith is absent, as in my husbands case, it is meaningless to that person.
So how come the law was given to the ungodly?

Was it to bring them to a saving knowledge of salvation?
I know truly before I was saved, although knowing God's law, to my shame, I blanked it, as many do today, so how can Gods' law being given to the ungodly ever do what it's supposed to?

Am I making any sense, or have I got it all out of context?
Thanks bros.

 

[Richie]

Dear Brother Rjones,

Great posts! I loved and enjoyed reading them. I will post tomorrow.

Just reading over these scriptures and this has come to mind, so I hope you won't mind if I post it here.

How is this, my husband knows the part of the law, plus many other parts, but this one in particular rises now and again between us.
Keeping Holy the Lord's Day, this being a sinful thing does not register with him as he continually breaks it, knowingly.
He says it doesnt apply to him as he's not a Christian, but surely the law was given for the ungodly, he is therefore either unaware of the sin envolved or just doesn't car.

We know while we have faith we will endeavour to keep the law but when faith is absent, as in my husbands case, it is meaningless to that person.
So how come the law was given to the ungodly?

Was it to bring them to a saving knowledge of salvation?
I know truly before I was saved, although knowing God's law, to my shame, I blanked it, as many do today, so how can Gods' law being given to the ungodly ever do what it's supposed to?

Am I making any sense, or have I got it all out of context?
Thanks bros.

Dear Sister Maureen,

I think this could probably be the answer to your question. The law was given to the ungodly so that they might be made aware of their sin. The law obviously doesn't bring them a saving knowledge of salvation. It is only through the Blood of Jesus that we receive forgiveness for our sins, and it is only by the Grace of Almighty God that we receive salvation.

The law makes us aware of sin, but grace makes us aware of everything God has done for our redemption from sin.

Please don't worry about your husband, God will change him. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts us of sin. When the Holy Spirit touches him, there will be a wonderful change, much like what He did for you and me.

When God touches a person, there is absolutely nothing like it. Because God touched us and changed us, we are able to live in His presence. It is not by our strength that we are able to boldly enter His presence, neither it is by our strength that we were able to receive Salvation from sin.

He will do the same thing for your husband too. All you have to do is, wait patiently. He will do it in His time. In the mean time, He will give us peace in our heart to endure the struggle, so that we might be happy all the time. The goal of Satan is to steal our happiness, peace and to keep us away from God, but the Holy Spirit will not allow that to happen.

God bless you.

 

[Maureen]

Yes Ritchie
that does show that the keeping of the law is useless without faith, as we would still be in our sin.

And could we even keep the law in our own strength, try as we may.
We need the strength and grace of the Lord Jesus in our lives to do so.

Otherwise we strive in vain.

Thank you Brother, I know all about satan stealing our joy I went through it, until I gave everything over to Jesus, and I understood were my joy was going, praise God, it doesn't happen no more, I leave church as happy as I enter, no probably happier, as there we meet with our Saviour we cannot remain the same.
Although He is not in the church building, we bring Him in with us.

 

[Richie]

Dear Brother Rjones, Sister Maureen and every one studying with us:

Greetings to all of you. Here is my post on Romans 4:16-25. I would like to focus on Romans 4:16 once again, even though I've covered it in the last post.

Romans 4:17-18:

Verse 17: That is what the Scriptures mean when God told him, “I have made you the father of many nations.” This happened because Abraham believed in the God who brings the dead back to life and who brings into existence what didn’t exist before.

Verse 18: When God promised Abraham that he would become the father of many nations, Abraham believed him. God had also said, “Your descendants will be as numerous as the stars,” even though such a promise seemed utterly impossible!

Now God's promise to Abraham is that Abraham's descendants will be as the sands of the sea. God told him that He will make him, the father of many nations. Now spiritually speaking, this is what the scripture means:

Romans 4:16:........For Abraham is the father of all who believe.

If we have faith, we are proving the fact that we are Abraham's Children. So, Abraham is our spiritual father according to the scriptures.

Romans 4:19-20:

Verse 19: And Abraham’s faith did not weaken, even though he knew that he was too old to be a father at the age of one hundred and that Sarah, his wife, had never been able to have children.

Verse 20: Abraham never wavered in believing God’s promise. In fact, his faith grew stronger, and in this he brought glory to God.

When ever I see this, I wonder, what if you and I were in the place of Abraham. Definitely we would have doubted God's promise and definitely we would have asked God questions. But just look at Abraham, his faith became even more stronger. Isn't it amazing. It is so easy to read and go ahead, but it is so hard to imagine it and understand the situation.

Romans 4:21: He was absolutely convinced that God was able to do anything he promised.

Now let us be honest. How many of our Christians in the world today have this kind of faith? Certainly, I will not consider my self to be like this. I do get shaken up with the situations many times, but year after I can find my faith becoming better and better, because of all what God did for me over the years.

Romans 4:22-25:

22 And because of Abraham’s faith, God declared him to be righteous.

23 Now this wonderful truth, that God declared him to be righteous, wasn’t just for Abraham’s benefit.

24 It was for us, too, assuring us that God will also declare us to be righteous if we believe in God, who brought Jesus our Lord back from the dead.

25 He was handed over to die because of our sins, and he was raised from the dead to make us right with God.

We've discussed this point earlier, but here in these verses, it is even more easier to understand. Now let us make the points plain, simple and straight:

1). God declared Abraham to be righteous because of his faith.

2). It is by faith that we are made right in God's sight. By faith if we ask God to forgive our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us and declare us righteous.

Wonderful, isn't?

This is all I want to share with you on Romans 4.

God bless you.

 

[Richie]

Romans 3 v14 'whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness''curses' in this sense is the meaning of bad things to come about?
rather as I had thought as bad language, is this right?

Dear Sister Maureen,

I happened to read all your posts once again very carefully in order to see if I have missed anything and after I read, I found that I missed reading the text in the quote which is from your post.

I'm very sorry to have missed that point.

Well your question related to that verse is bad language. isn't it? Well, your right. People use foul language as they like and they just don't realize how bad it sounds. The use of foul language is become common and they use it subconsciously.

By the way, you want to have a short study on John 8:3-9. Yes, I will start the thread and I hope it will be a very short study with a lot of insight.

God bless you.

 

[Maureen]

Thank you brother Ritchie
as I had presumed.

it is good to have confirmation of it though.
Much appreciated. Thank you Again.