Invitation to Study Romans

[Laudite]

(Rom. 16-17)
Paul uses homosexuality - both female and male - as an example of God giving them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves. Some say that the Bible nowhere condemns lesbian homosexuality, but the likewise of Rom. 1:27 makes it clear that the sin of homosexuality condemned in Rom. 1:27 is connected to the sin of women mentioned in Rom. 1:26.

Paul doesn’t even use the normal words for men and women here; he uses the words for male and female, using categories that describe sexuality outside of human terms, because the type of sexual sin he describes is outside of human dignity. Paul categorizes the whole section under the idea of vile passions - unhealthy, unholy. Nevertheless, Paul lived in a culture that openly approved of homosexuality. Paul didn’t write this to a culture that agreed with him. He wrote to a culture where homosexuality was accepted as a part of life for both men and women. For some 200 years, men who openly practiced homosexuality, often with young boys, ruled the Roman Empire.

At times, the Roman Empire specifically taxed approved homosexual prostitution and gave boy prostitutes a legal holiday. Legal marriage between same gender couples was recognized, and even some of the emperors married other men. At the very time Paul was writing, Nero was emperor. He took a boy named Sporus and had him castrated, then married him (with a full ceremony), brought him to the palace with a great procession, and made the boy his “wife.” Later, Nero lived with another man, and Nero was the “wife.”

Homosexual practice truly is an abomination in our present culture. Statistics tell us that on average 43% of homosexuals say that they have had 500 or more sexual partners in their lifetime, and only 1% of homosexuals say they have had four or less sexual partners in their lifetime.

According the Unites States Department of Health and Human Services, 77% of homosexuals say they have met sexual partners in a city park; 62% in a homosexual bar, 61% in a theater, 31% in a public restroom. Only 28% of homosexuals said that they had known their partners for at least a week before participating in homosexual sex.

Homosexuals often seem to specialize in anonymous sex with no emotional commitment. At one time, London AIDS clinics defined a woman as promiscuous if she had more than six partners in her lifetime. They gave up trying to apply a workable definition to male homosexuals when it became clear that they saw almost no homosexual men who had less than six sexual partners a year.

Receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due: Paul speaks of a penalty for homosexual conduct; Homosexuality has within itself a penalty. This speaks of the self-destructive nature of sin; it often carries within itself it’s own penalty. Sometimes it is the penalty of disease, which is the consequence of violating nature’s order. Sometimes it is the penalty of rebellion, resulting in spiritual emptiness and all it’s ramifications. The term “gay” is wishful thinking; it sends a message that there is something essentially happy and carefree about the homosexual lifestyle - which there is not.

As further judgment, God gives man over to a debased mind, so that things that are disgraceful and sickening are readily accepted and approved. The word debased (or, reprobate in the KJV) meant originally ‘that which has not stood the test’. It was used of coins that were substandard and therefore rejected. The idea is that since man did not “approve” to know God, men came to have an “unapproved” mind.
Our rebellion against God is not only displayed in our actions, but in our thinking. We are genuinely “spiritually insane” in our rebellion against God.

The list in Rom. 1:29-31 gives concrete examples of the kind of things which are not fitting. Notice how “socially acceptable” sins (such as covetousness, envy and pride) are included right along with “socially unacceptable” sins (such as murder and being unloving).

Covetousness is literally the itch for more.

Whisperers: “Secret detractors; those who, under pretended secrecy, carry about accusations against their neighbours, whether true or false; blasting their reputation by clandestine tittle-tattle.” (Clarke)

Is envy a small sin? Envy put Jesus on the cross. Pilate knew that they had handed Him over because of envy. (Mt. 27:18)

Proud: “They who are continually exalting themselves and depressing others; magnifying themselves at the expense of their neighbors; and wishing all men to receive their sayings as oracles.” (Clarke)

Those who either practice or approve of these things are worthy of death: they are the objects of the wrath of God.

Where does all this violence, immorality, cruelty and degradation come from? Men have abandoned the true knowledge of God, and the state of society is a reflection of God’s judgment upon them for this.

Ok, so I don't read this passage in the same way, and I doubt my view will be particularly popular. However, a vigorous debate is a good thing, given that we all stick to the word of the text. First, a few notes where I disagree with your history:

Ancient Rome (and Greece, Egypt, etc) definately did not accept homosexual marriage. You have to understand that marriage was viewed not as a romantic (or, among the more cynical, particularly religious) event, but rather a combination of business arrangement and insurance of family lines. This is the reason for the extreme guarding of women (in Hellenic Greece women couldn't go out in public even with chaperones) because infidelity threatened ******* lines (which was one of the most dishonorable fates imaginable for a family in a soceity where family counted for much more than it does today) You are correct about Nero, but you have to keep in mind that Nero actively cultivated an image of being insane and forcing his insanity on others to solidify his power. It's no more fair to say that Roman culture accepted homosexual marriage than to say that they accepted horses for senators (Nero also forced people to accept his horse as a senator)

I can't really evaluate your claims about statistics because you don't provide the studies from which these statistics come, (I promise I'm not being hostile, it's just an academic requirement and one that makes sense to me) but I can't justify those numbers with my experience.

It seems to me, brother Jones, that your reading of this passage is particularly wide. I take a more specific, limited reading. Paul speaks of the mind warping, so that men lay with men as with women. As I noted in the original post, I read this to be about being so unsound of mind that sex becomes only for the sake of pleasure. Surely there are people like this, I have known some. Intoxication (also present in Paul's theme) tends to be a big factor in the form of drugs and alcohol. This sort of behavior is caustic to the soul, which seems to me to be the punishment of which Paul speaks. (I am wary of reading retribution into disease when Christ so thoroughly rejects this with lepers) I have talked many long hours with multiple friends who went through this and helped them to see the light of Christ's forgiveness. In an entirely different category are several friends of mine who are gay. Several are abstinent, while others have relationships more monogamous than many of my straight friends. They tell me that they have been gay since they had such feelings and have never been interested in the opposite sex. If this is the case, and I have no reason to disbelieve them- indeed I cannot because they speak to me heart to heart- then there is no warping of their minds as they have always only been interested in the same sex. Furthermore, they do not feel the spiritual degradation that my aforementioned lost friends did. In fact, some are excellent teachers of Christ and practicing Christians. I don't think I can find in Pauls words anything condemning them, especially given the lack of homosexuality in Christ's long list of condemnations of sexual practice.

 

[Laudite]

Brother Jones- I'm following you in general, but am having a little bit of trouble in the line by line of the text. Which translation are you using?

 

[Maureen]

oh don't worry, I will be reading ch.3 for sometime, I will in no way be going on any further, as I said I like to take my time, not rush, that way I digest the word, and it goes in and stays in, well some of it.

The brain cells don't work as good as they used to, so memory isn't as sharp, that's why I like to read, and re-read.

I even study one verse at a time and would go over it, as differant gems pop out, even in one single word, which before I would have not seen.

so have no fear bro, don't rush either. No hurry.

 

[Richie]

However, a vigorous debate is a good thing, given that we all stick to the word of the text.

Dear Brother,

If you don't mind, allow me to tell you something loud and clear,

Don't you ever mention the word 'debate'. We are here to discuss about the bible, but not to have debates. Please don't take it negatively, I mean it for your good.

God bless you.

oh don't worry, I will be reading ch.3 for sometime, I will in no way be going on any further, as I said I like to take my time, not rush, that way I digest the word, and it goes in and stays in, well some of it.

The brain cells don't work as good as they used to, so memory isn't as sharp, that's why I like to read, and re-read.

I even study one verse at a time and would go over it, as differant gems pop out, even in one single word, which before I would have not seen.

so have no fear bro, don't rush either. No hurry.

Dear sister Maureen,

Thank you for waiting for me. I will try to post as quickly as possible.

God bless you.

 

[Maureen]

Well I was enjoying this 'STUDY' and I to am not here for debate.

That leads to being resentful, not a good quality.
Not what we are here for anyway.

I look forward Y5EE252_RICHIE to your words, no rush bro.
In Christ.

 

[Laudite]

I have to say I'm a bit surprised. Perhaps ya'll have a different understanding of the meaning of debate than I do. The way I understand it, we offer understandings of the text, we add on and respond where we agree, and where we don't we examine the support for each interpretation and (hopefully) decide which is better, or if not, at least gain a better understanding of each side of the issue. I truly don't see how debate leads to resentment! In fact, in terms of communicative ethics, debate is the only means of closing disagreement without coercion or violence. In fact, the notion of debate is central to free understanding because you never really know why you're right if you don't understand the merit of the other side's position. Perhaps, however, I use debate in a more academic sense and ya'll in a more colloquial sense?

 

[Maureen]

quote 'you never really know why you're right if you don't understand the merit of the other side's position.' unquote

sorry Laudite
the dictionary reads:- debate, argue, discuss, esp in a formal assembly, consider - a discussion, controversy.

so guess we all get top marks.

I really liked, what you said above, (in red) that's why I copied it again,
that spoke volumes to me just at this moment in time.
Not about this thread, but something I'm going through in my family.
So I really want to thank you for that.

In fact, I've typed it out to stick in front of my pc to remind me of it, and to give it some thought.

Guess we can understand we can take differant meanings over the word 'debate' and can shake hands or better still, a holy kiss and continue on.

 

[rjones]

Father God,
I thank You for the blood of Jesus shed on the cross and our salvation though faithful acceptance Him as our Savior and His Lordship in our lives. I thank You that Your Holy Spirit is leading us in all truth here in this bible study. Lord God, help us to all honor and revere Your Word. In Jesus Name, AMEN.

Dear Sister Maureen, I've thoroughly enjoyed your posts. I can see you have a passion for God's Word. Please, I pray, continue in this study with much zeal and confidence.

Dear Brother Laudite,
I see that you live in the Atlanta area. I do too. Maybe we can have coffee some time. I'd like that. Then we can further examine and discuss the scriptures you have mentioned. Please, for the sake of keeping with the forum guidelines, let us keep our posts to our commentary on the scripture. Can you agree to this?

Dear Brother Richie, I pray your exams are going well. Or maybe you have completed them already. Either way, I pray you receive the highest grades possible.

I've been a bit preoccupied of late with work and family so I haven't had much time to myself. I hope to have some time this weekend to get back to our study. So please, continue and I will catch up.
God bless.

 

[Maureen]

Amen
to your prayer bro rjones

Thank you for your most welcomed encouragement.
The highest poss grades for bro Ritchie please Lord, but the highest mark we can ever hope to achieve is from you dear Lord Jesus.

The Passion is for Jesus, His words I find are enthrawling
such compassion, never the like of it.

But yet, when He wants to rebuke, His words are so full of strength
and power, but then we know why, God in flesh.
Amen

 

[Richie]

Dear Brother Richie, I pray your exams are going well. Or maybe you have completed them already. Either way, I pray you receive the highest grades possible.

I've been a bit preoccupied of late with work and family so I haven't had much time to myself. I hope to have some time this weekend to get back to our study. So please, continue and I will catch up.
God bless.

Dear Brother Rjones, Sister Maureen and those who are studying with us:

Thank you so much for your prayers for me. In fact my exams are not over yet (They will be finished on April 16), they went on well so far. I thank God for the success He gave me over the years. My next exam is on Tuesday. I'm preparing for that right now.

I will continue to pray for you Brother Rjones and Sister Maureen. Please pray for me and for my Father's healing. I sent a prayer request months back. Please keep praying for his healing. This is the prayer request I sent for my Dad (please see it):

http://www.talkjesus.com/prayer-request/17648-please-pray-my-father-s-healing.html

Right now he is in a lot of pain, but God is healing him very slowly. My Father is a very strong believer in the Lord. He does have strong faith. He is saved, but he doesn't believe in speaking in tongues and he is a bit misguided. He does believe the God will heal him. Please pray for him. He knows the bible very well.

Here is my post on Romans 3:9-18.

Romans 3:9: What then? Are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Now finally Paul the Apostle comes to a final straight forward conclusion after all that he explained in Romans 2 and Romans 3:1-4. In the same way, even I want to tell that, “We Christians are no better than the non-Christians."

Romans 3:10-12:

Verse 10: as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Verse 11: there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Verse 12: They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

These same verses can be found in:

1) Psalm 14:1-3 (like you mentioned)
2) Psalm 53:1-3

Romans 3:10: ......There is none righteous, no, not one:

We have come across this point many times. Many people don't realize that every person on earth is a sinner, but they rely on the fact that, "Good works will lead them to heaven.". Even though we do good deeds outwardly, God knows the kind of heart and the kind of intention we do it with. Even though we may do good deeds outwardly, in our heart, we may or may not have evil intentions. God sees those intentions and on the final day (day of Judgment), they will be exposed.

Sometimes we say, "I'm better than that person in many ways.", but we should see what God thinks of us, because sin is sin (no matter how bad it is).

After I read the book called, "23 minutes of Hell" by Bill Wiese, I was able to understand many portions in the scripture. It is a scripturally sound book, and the book is not just related to hell alone, there are a lot of things we can learn from that book.

Romans 3:11: there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

You gave a wonderful explanation for this verse. Yes, indeed it is true. If we say that we are searching for God, we are paving the way to the enemy to enter our lives and ruin our lives. That is why Paul the Apostle mentioned in:

Romans 1:23: ..........changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Those of you who are viewing this thread, if you are in search for God, please don’t play games with your life and your eternity. There is only one way to heaven and it is through Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:12: They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

This verse I believe talks about the power of sin, dwelling in us. We definitely cannot claim ourselves to be good in God’s eyes, because we have fallen short of His Awesome Glory. That is why, good works alone will not take us to heaven, like the way many people think in this manner. In fact by doing good works sometimes, the enemy tries to make us feel proud of it (obviously it is very dangerous).

Romans 3:13: Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips

A similar verse to this verse is found in Psalms 5:9.

The tongue is compared to a destructive flame of fire in James 3:6 A small word can make a huge difference in our lives. I say, that the tongue is a weapon of mass destruction. We do need to be careful many times because the enemy uses the tongue to cause enough of problems for us to face them.

Romans 3:14 whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.

Many people, I just don't know why they love to choose cursing. They love to live bitter lives, no peace of mind and no happiness. If in a family there is no happiness, life is going to be awful. Happiness is something we need to earn. It is God's presence that gives us that true happiness and peace in our lives. But unfortunately many people choose curses instead of blessings because of their hard hearted nature. You may be a millionaire or a billionaire like Donald Trump or Vince McMahon, but what is the use of those treasures when there is no happiness and peace in your home.

Romans 3:15 their feet are swift to shed blood

It true, it is happening today, like never before. Some people are so blood thirsty, they just love to kill, in some cases even at the expense of their own life.

Romans 3:16-17:

Verse 16: destruction and misery are in their ways.

Verse 17: and the way of peace have they not known.

Since the beginning of this world, men loved violence, violent behavior. Their love for violence causes them to become absolutely ruthless, remorseless and extremely cruel. Finally they come to the extent of having sadistic pleasure of torturing others. Just can't describe it more.

It is the sin in our lives that causes us to love violence. It is only by the Holy Spirit we learn to live a peaceful life, because He gives us that peace.

Romans 3:18: there is no fear of God before their eyes.

Some people love to have the easy way out. They just think that they can willfully reject God's word, God's mercy all their life and before they die, they want to ask God forgiveness. I have noticed many people live like that. They live their life as they like and say, "Let me live as I wish, continue to sin as much as I can, but before I die, then only I will ask God forgiveness." This is nothing but taking advantage of God's Grace and Mercy. Surely God will forgive, but isn't it not taking advantage of God's kindness

Some people think sometimes that God will forgive us of all our sins, no matter how bad they are, they just come to the conclusion that they have a license to sin. God didn't really mean to forgive us of our sins for that purpose. He made us right so that we will live according to His ways.

This is all I want to share with you. Tomorrow I will post on Romans 3:19-31.

God bless you. I want to hear from you.

 

[Maureen]

Right I've it printed off to take away to study.
I find that works better for me.

So it will take time before I get back here again, with some comments.
God willing.

Till then, keep in the word.

 

[rjones]

I had a few minutes this morning so here's my post on these 2 verses.

(Romans 3:19-20) Paul's summation: the law cannot save us from our sin and the penalty it deserves.

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Whatever the law says: Paul points out that this description of man’s utter sinfulness come to us in the law; and it is intended for those under the law, to silence every critic and to demonstrate the universal guilt of mankind - that all the world may become guilty before God.

It says to those who are under the law: If God speaks this way to those who had the law, and attempted to do the law, it is evident that by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight. Remember that many Jewish people of Paul’s day took every passage of the Old Testament describing evil and applied it only to the Gentiles - not to themselves. Paul makes it clear that God speaks to those who are under the law.

Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight: The law cannot save us. The law can’t justify anyone. It is useful in giving us the knowledge of sin, but it cannot save us.

Since the time of Adam and Eve, people have tried to justify themselves by the deeds of the law. In the Garden of Eden Adam tried to make himself presentable to God by making coverings out of fig leaves - and he failed. In Job, the oldest book of the Bible, the problem is presented clearly: how can a man be righteous before God? (Job 9:2) God makes part of the answer clear here through Paul - the answer is not in the performance of good works, nor in the deeds of the law.

We need to have a complete understanding of this- - that by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified!

This means that the law, having been broken, can only condemn us - it can never save us.

This means that even if we could now begin to perfectly keep the law of God it could not make up for past disobedience, or remove present guilt.

This means that keeping law is NOT God's way of salvation or of blessing under the New Covenant.

For by the law is the knowledge of sin: J.B. Phillip's paraphrase of this phrase is striking: it is the straight-edge of the Law that shows us how crooked we are.

Have a blessed day. God bless!

 

[Richie]

I had a few minutes this morning so here's my post on these 2 verses.

(Romans 3:19-20) Paul's summation: the law cannot save us from our sin and the penalty it deserves.

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Whatever the law says: Paul points out that this description of man’s utter sinfulness come to us in the law; and it is intended for those under the law, to silence every critic and to demonstrate the universal guilt of mankind - that all the world may become guilty before God.

It says to those who are under the law: If God speaks this way to those who had the law, and attempted to do the law, it is evident that by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight. Remember that many Jewish people of Paul’s day took every passage of the Old Testament describing evil and applied it only to the Gentiles - not to themselves. Paul makes it clear that God speaks to those who are under the law.

Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight: The law cannot save us. The law can’t justify anyone. It is useful in giving us the knowledge of sin, but it cannot save us.

Since the time of Adam and Eve, people have tried to justify themselves by the deeds of the law. In the Garden of Eden Adam tried to make himself presentable to God by making coverings out of fig leaves - and he failed. In Job, the oldest book of the Bible, the problem is presented clearly: how can a man be righteous before God? (Job 9:2) God makes part of the answer clear here through Paul - the answer is not in the performance of good works, nor in the deeds of the law.

We need to have a complete understanding of this- - that by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified!

This means that the law, having been broken, can only condemn us - it can never save us.

This means that even if we could now begin to perfectly keep the law of God it could not make up for past disobedience, or remove present guilt.

This means that keeping law is NOT God's way of salvation or of blessing under the New Covenant.

For by the law is the knowledge of sin: J.B. Phillip's paraphrase of this phrase is striking: it is the straight-edge of the Law that shows us how crooked we are.

Have a blessed day. God bless!

Dear Brother Rjones, Sister Maureen and those who are studying with us,

Greetings to all of you. It is Midnight here in India. Brother Rjones, your post is excellent indeed. Yes indeed, I do agree with what you posted.

Here is my post on Romans 3:19-20. I will try to post Romans 3:21-31 tomorrow.

Romans 3:19-20:

Verse 19: Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Verse 20: Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Indeed, Paul the Apostle is talking about Sin's advantage in the law. God gave us the law, so that we may abide by it and live in His presence. After the law was given unto men, the knowledge of sin was revealed unto men.

For example, "God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge.". Because God told them not to do it; disobeying what God told them not to do, will obviously lead to the knowledge of sin. Similarly through the Law, the knowledge of sin is revealed.

Some people, when ever you tell them to do something, they do something contrary to what you told them to do. Why? Because it is the power of sin dwelling in them.

In the same manner, when God Almighty gave the law unto men, the same thing happened with men. We knew things which were certainly wrong and we did them many times.

This is why the word 'Sin' is defined as, "Deliberate and absolute defiance to God's word.".

Just like you mentioned, since men have broken the law because of the power of sin dwelling in men, obviously, the law will condemn every man, but it will never save men from the power of sin, because we cannot undo whatever we did.

This is all I want to share with you.

God bless you. Good night.

 

[rjones]

Praise the Lord! These 2 verses are so powerful. Rejoice! For now "right standing" with God is revealed through faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:21 The revelation of righteousness.

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.


But now provides the most glorious transition from the judgment of Romans 3:20 to the justification of Romans 3:21.
But now speaks of the newness of God’s work in Jesus Christ - it really is a New Covenant.

Apart from the law: The law cannot save us, but God revealed a righteousness that would save us, apart from the law. This is the essence of God’s plan of salvation in Jesus Christ: it is a salvation that is offered apart from the law, apart from our own earning and deserving, apart from our own merits. It isn’t that the righteousness of God is revealed apart from the Old Testament, but that it is revealed apart from the principle of law. It is apart from a legal relationship to God, based on the idea of earning and deserving merit before Him.

“The Greek puts to the very front this great phrase apart from law (choris nomou) and this sets forth most strongly the altogether separateness of this Divine righteousness from any law-performance, any works of man, whatsoever.” (Newell)

To which the Law and the Prophets testify: This righteousness is not a novelty. Paul didn’t “invent” it. It was predicted long ago, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets. The Old Testament said this righteousness was coming. This also reminds us that there is still continuity with God’s work in former times.

God’s righteousness is not offered to us as something to take up the slack between our ability to keep the law and God’s perfect standard. It is not given to supplement our own righteousness, it is given completely apart from our own attempted righteousness.

Romans 3:22 How this righteousness is communicated to man.

This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

Through faith in Jesus Christ: The righteousness of God is not ours by faith; it is ours through faith. We do not earn righteousness by our faith. We receive righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ.

Through faith “points to the fact that faith is not a merit, earning salvation. It is no more than the means through which the gift is given.” (Morris)

“But faith is not ‘trusting’ or ‘expecting’ God to do something, but relying on His testimony concerning the person of Christ as His Son, and the work of Christ for us on the cross . . . After saving faith, the life of trust begins . . . trust is always looking forward to what God will do; but faith sees that what God says has been done, and believes God’s Word, having the conviction that it is true, and true for ourselves.” (Newell)

To all and on all who believe: In Romans 3:21, Paul told us how this righteousness does not come. It does not come through the deeds of the law, it is apart from the law. Now Paul tells us how this saving righteousness does come. It is through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all who believe.

For the there is no difference: There is no other way to obtain this righteousness. This righteousness is not earned through obedience to the law; it is a received righteousness, gained through faith in Jesus Christ.

“There is a little book entitled, Every man his own lawyer. Well, nowadays, according to some people, it seems as if every man is to be his own saviour; but if I had, say; a dozen gospels, and I had to sort them out, and give the right gospel to the right man, what a fix I should be in! I believe that, oftentimes, I should be giving your gospel to someone else, and someone else’s gospel to you; and what a muddle it would all be! But now we have one universal cure . . . The blood and righteousness of Jesus Christ will save every man who trusts him, for ‘there is no difference.’” (Spurgeon)

Glory to God! I speak blessing over all who are studying with us.
Have a blessed day.

 

[Maureen]

oh my, I have just been eating great food, thank you guys.

Ritchie,
'if we say that we are searching for God, we are paving the way to the enemy to enter our lives and ruin our lives'

I have heard my oldest son say these very words a while back, I am searching for God, he never followed through needless to say, after a very serious bout of illness which very nearly cost his life, and he recovered I thank the Lord most graciously for, he started to go to a good bible preaching/believing church ( I was going too at the time) but lost interest when God blessed him with a job, and he left off searching for Jesus, stopped going to church, and is the same to this day.

My husband, goes every week, and the message tonight (as always) was straight through the heart, no way of mis understanding, but yet he sits in his sins.
I know great patience is needed, but it really makes me wonder how he can do it, he hears said, 'don't walk out that door tonight without Jesus,' does he? yes, every week.

Sin is really held onto, and there is no real fear of God when you hold onto it.

Billy Grahame's son Franlin is over here at this present time, 3 day convention, in an arena which holds over 7000 people, he preached just that, 'the law' how we all come short, plus much more, and John 3 v 16.
Many accepted Christ on Friday night when I myself went.
I pray the Lord will hold them in the palm of His hand.

sorry this has gone off the study path, I only wanted to share this.

Psalm 5 v 9 we can not be walking correctly with Jesus if we persue such a way.
picking up from Romans 3 v13 Ritchie your study.
I too have asked at times, though not nearly often enough, for my own tongue to be bridled, and silenced when it needs to be.

Romans 3 v14 'whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness''curses' in this sense is the meaning of bad things to come about?
rather as I had thought as bad language, is this right?

Romans 3 v 17 'and the way of peace they have not known'
oh my, Ritchie how I can relate to this in my life, living with an unsaved spouse, you said quote 'Their love for violence causes them to become absolutely ruthless, remorseless and extremely cruel. Finally they come to the extent of having sadistic pleasure of torturing others

This I could not hardly take in. As I do suffer mental torture from my husband, but praise the Lord, it's only since I got saved that I have the grace to get me through, it's not easy, but it doesn't effect me the same as it did before I was saved, I see a big difference.
I hold on with both hands, knuckles white, clenching to the hem of His garment, and He leads me on.
I wait on hubby's salvation day, but I know it's in the Lord's time, nothing I do will change that.

Romans 3 v 18 'there is no fear of God before their eyes'
oh how true, amen and amen.
I see it week in week out, right in front of my own eyes, in my husband, how he rejects God's only son, while a tear would fall down my face listening to how He died and suffered for me.
I never realized my husband was so hard hearted, but he is.
Why can't he believe? I mean truly believe? he says he believes 'about' Jesus and God, he's not an atheist, but why then can't accept salvation.
He loves his sin more, yes?
Is it also true then that we must firstly be touched by Jesus with faith before we will bow the knee?

Sorry if I have veered off somewhat guys, it's only what's laid on my heart when writing.

 

[rjones]

Praise the Lord!
Here's my post on Romans 3:23-24

Romans 3:23-24 Man’s universal need and God’s universal offer.

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Even as all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God is universal, so is the offer of being justified freely by His grace. It is open to everyone who will believe.

Being justified: Paul develops his teaching about salvation around three themes.

Justification
Redemption
Propitiation

Justification solves the problem of man’s guilt before a righteous Judge. Redemption solves the problem of man’s slavery to sin, the world, and the devil. Propitiation solves the problem of offending God our Creator.

How do we fall short of the glory of God? It’s impossible to describe every way, but here are four important ways man falls short of the glory of God.

We fail to give God the glory due Him, in our words, thoughts and actions.
We fail to qualify for, and thereby reject, the glory and reward that God gives faithful servants.
We fail to properly reflect God’s glory, by refusing to be conformed into His image.
We fail to obtain the final glory God will bestow on His people at the end of all history.

Justified freely by His grace: Being in such a sinful state, the only way we can be justified is to be justified freely. We can’t purchase it with out good works at all. If it isn’t made free to us, we can’t have it all. So we are justified freely by His grace - His unmerited favor, given to us without regard to what we deserve. It is a giving motivated purely by the giver, and motivated by nothing in the one who receives.

Freely is the Greek word dorean. The way this word is used in other New Testament passages helps us understand the word. Mt. 10:8 (Freely you have received, freely give) and Rev. 22:17 (And whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely) show that the word means truly free, not just “cheap” or “discounted.” Perhaps the most striking use of the ancient Greek word dorean is in Jn. 15:25: They hated me without a cause (dorean). Even as there was nothing in Jesus deserving of man’s hatred, so there is nothing in us deserving of justification - all the reasons are in God.

Through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Again, Paul’s gospel centers squarely in Christ Jesus. Salvation is possible because of the redemption found in Him. God cannot give us His righteousness apart from Jesus Christ.

Redemption has the idea of buying back something, and involves cost. However, God pays the cost and so we are justified freely.

The word redemption had its origin in the release of prisoners of war on payment of a price and was know as the “ransom.” As time went on, it was extended to include the freeing of slaves, again by the payment of a price.

The idea of redemption means that Jesus bought us, therefore we belong to Him. Paul expressed this thought in another letter: For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. (1 Cor. 6:20)

God bless

 

[rjones]

Romans 3:25-26 How the death of Jesus satisfies the righteous judgment of God.

Whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Whom God set forth as a propitiation: Jesus, by His death (by His blood) was a propitiation (substitute sacrifice) for us. As He was judged in our place, the Father could demonstrate His righteousness in judgment against sin, while sparing those who deserved the judgment.
This verse doesn't shows that Jesus somehow appeased a reluctant, unwilling Father to hold back His wrath. Instead, it was God the Father who initiated the propitiation: whom God set forth.

The Greek word for propitiation (hilasterion) is also used in the Septuagint for the mercy seat, the lid that covered the ark of the covenant, upon which sacrificial blood was sprinkled as an atonement for sin.

At the same time, the “mercy seat” idea should not be neglected as an illustration of that propitiation. Inside the ark of the covenant were the evidence of man’s great sin: the tablets of law; the manna received ungratefully; the budded rod of Aaron, showing man’s rejection of God’s leadership. Up over the ark of the covenant were the symbols of the holy presence of the enthroned God in the beautiful gold cherubim. In between the two stood the mercy seat, and as sacrificial blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat on the Day of Atonement (Leviticus 16), God’s wrath was averted because a substitute had been slain on behalf of sinners coming by faith. We really can say that Jesus is our “mercy seat,” standing between guilty sinners and the holiness of God.

God, in His forbearance, had passed over the sins of those Old Testament saints who trusted in the coming Messiah. At the cross, those sins were no longer passed over, they were paid for. The idea is that through the animal sacrifice of the Old Testament, those who looked in faith to the coming Messiah had their sins “covered” by a sort of an “IOU” or promissory note. That temporary covering was redeemed for full payment at the cross.

The work of Jesus on the cross freed God from the charge that He passed over sin committed before the cross lightly. They were passed over for a time, but now they are finally paid for.

That He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus: At the cross, God demonstrated His righteousness by offering man justification (a legal verdict of “not guilty”), while remaining completely just (because the righteous penalty of sin had been paid at the cross).

One can see how God could only be just - simply send every guilty sinner to hell, as a just Judge. One can also see how God could only be the justifier - simply tell every guilty sinner, “I declare a pardon. You are all declared ‘not guilty.’” But only God could find a way to be both just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

“Here we learn that God designed to give the most evident displays of both his justice and mercy. Of his justice, in requiring a sacrifice, and absolutely refusing to give salvation to a lost world in any other way; and of his mercy, in providing the sacrifice which his justice required.” (Clarke)

 

[Richie]

oh my, I have just been eating great food, thank you guys.

Ritchie,
'if we say that we are searching for God, we are paving the way to the enemy to enter our lives and ruin our lives'

I have heard my oldest son say these very words a while back, I am searching for God, he never followed through needless to say, after a very serious bout of illness which very nearly cost his life, and he recovered I thank the Lord most graciously for, he started to go to a good bible preaching/believing church ( I was going too at the time) but lost interest when God blessed him with a job, and he left off searching for Jesus, stopped going to church, and is the same to this day.

My husband, goes every week, and the message tonight (as always) was straight through the heart, no way of mis understanding, but yet he sits in his sins.
I know great patience is needed, but it really makes me wonder how he can do it, he hears said, 'don't walk out that door tonight without Jesus,' does he? yes, every week.

Sin is really held onto, and there is no real fear of God when you hold onto it.

Billy Grahame's son Franlin is over here at this present time, 3 day convention, in an arena which holds over 7000 people, he preached just that, 'the law' how we all come short, plus much more, and John 3 v 16.
Many accepted Christ on Friday night when I myself went.
I pray the Lord will hold them in the palm of His hand.

sorry this has gone off the study path, I only wanted to share this.

Psalm 5 v 9 we can not be walking correctly with Jesus if we persue such a way.
picking up from Romans 3 v13 Ritchie your study.
I too have asked at times, though not nearly often enough, for my own tongue to be bridled, and silenced when it needs to be.

Romans 3 v14 'whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness''curses' in this sense is the meaning of bad things to come about?
rather as I had thought as bad language, is this right?

Romans 3 v 17 'and the way of peace they have not known'
oh my, Ritchie how I can relate to this in my life, living with an unsaved spouse, you said quote 'Their love for violence causes them to become absolutely ruthless, remorseless and extremely cruel. Finally they come to the extent of having sadistic pleasure of torturing others

This I could not hardly take in. As I do suffer mental torture from my husband, but praise the Lord, it's only since I got saved that I have the grace to get me through, it's not easy, but it doesn't effect me the same as it did before I was saved, I see a big difference.
I hold on with both hands, knuckles white, clenching to the hem of His garment, and He leads me on.
I wait on hubby's salvation day, but I know it's in the Lord's time, nothing I do will change that.

Romans 3 v 18 'there is no fear of God before their eyes'
oh how true, amen and amen.
I see it week in week out, right in front of my own eyes, in my husband, how he rejects God's only son, while a tear would fall down my face listening to how He died and suffered for me.
I never realized my husband was so hard hearted, but he is.
Why can't he believe? I mean truly believe? he says he believes 'about' Jesus and God, he's not an atheist, but why then can't accept salvation.
He loves his sin more, yes?
Is it also true then that we must firstly be touched by Jesus with faith before we will bow the knee?

Sorry if I have veered off somewhat guys, it's only what's laid on my heart when writing.

Dear sister Maureen,

I'm glad that you have enjoyed my post. We do definitely need to give some of our experiences in order to prove our testimony along with what the bible has to say.

Dear Brother Rjones and Sister Maureen,

Kindly give me some time to post on Romans 3:21-31. I will be able to post on Saturday. Please forgive me for prolonging this study.

God bless you.

 

[Maureen]

No forgiving necessary Ritchie.

 

[CrossBow]

Study in Romans in order that:

I have been reading through the study in Romans posts and Jesus reminded me of this scripture:
Heb 6:1-3, Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.
Studying Romans is a good thing to do, and it is being done very thoroughly with a lot of excellent commentary. Paul is revealing in Romans the mystery of the gospel, the teaching of flesh and spirit and the activity of grace in order that those who would receive this instruction would achieve through the activity of Jesus in them the outcome promised by God.
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
I would pray that this is the reason for the study in Romans.

"Going on unto perfection"